Author Event! Leslie Johansen Nack & Anastasia Zadeik
[0:00]And then I'm going to quickly review Leslie's bio.
[0:03]So Leslie Johansson-Knack is the author
[0:07]of two award-winning books, 14, and Blue Butterfly.
[0:11]Her sequel, 19, a daughter's memoir of reckoning and recovery
[0:15]finishes Leslie's angsty and challenging story
[0:18]with sobriety and hope for the future.
[0:20]Leslie graduated from UCLA with a degree in English literature
[0:24]and overcame past traumas to raise two children
[0:27]in a healthy, loving home.
[0:29]She is the member of the author's guild,
[0:31]the historical novel society, and the Pacific Northwest
[0:33]Writers Association.
[0:35]She lives outside Seattle with her husband of 35 years,
[0:38]who's here with us, right there, here he is.
[0:43]So Leslie and I have known each other for a long time.
[0:47]And so our danger is going to be talking too long.
[0:52]So if you guys have questions, we're
[0:54]going to have a Q&A after about a half an hour of us chatting.
[0:58]So please hold your questions, but know that we will get to them.
[1:01]And we're going to try not to give any spoilers,
[1:04]because obviously other than me, no one has read, 19.
[1:08]And but we're going to talk more about the themes
[1:11]and sort of what stories about and your recovery
[1:15]and kind of the writing process and lessons
[1:20]that you can share with others.
[1:22]But to start, I would like you to give everyone
[1:24]a brief description of 19.
[1:27]OK, first I have to thank Zibi for having me here,
[1:30]and the store for hosting me.
[1:32]And all of you for coming, because I'm on overwhelm.
[1:36]And the anesthesia for being here too.
[1:39]So this book is from my heart.
[1:43]It is the sequel to 14, which came out 10 years ago.
[1:49]And my original intention was to write the whole story,
[1:52]but after 14 came out, my sister passed away.
[1:56]And I didn't really feel like writing about my family any longer.
[2:00]And so I took a bit of a break.
[2:02]Got inspired by Marian Davies, who lived really close around here
[2:07]and wrote a book called The Blue Butterfly.
[2:10]And when that was out and sort of everything was done,
[2:12]I started writing 19 again.
[2:15]And it sort of is the story, the tender story,
[2:20]I want to say, because I was just fell off.
[2:25]It's all right.
[2:26]You can take on it.
[2:27]Anyway, it is the story of coming of age
[2:34]and trying to find my own voice in a family
[2:38]where in a family where I was struggling
[2:47]to find my identity, to begin with.
[2:49]My father was very powerful, very overwhelming.
[2:53]And he was a single father.
[2:55]My mom was went in and had a mental hospital,
[3:00]leave it there while I was growing up.
[3:04]And so she was absent a lot.
[3:06]And my dad sort of stepped in and took over.
[3:08]And he was a great big Norwegian who
[3:12]came here from Norway when he was 23 to conquer America
[3:15]and lived the dream, bringing his own baggage
[3:19]within, of course.
[3:19]But he taught us how to sail.
[3:22]We lived like pioneers on a ranch.
[3:24]And when I became a teenager, we
[3:28]did all kinds of other adventures.
[3:30]But all during this, I was his favorite.
[3:33]And he was abusive.
[3:35]And it was from what people could see of our family.
[3:41]They were like, wow, those girls, they're so lucky.
[3:45]They're so this, they're so that.
[3:47]But behind the scenes, it was a whole other story, which
[3:50]I guess is pretty typical for families
[3:52]where there's a lot of dysfunction and abuse.
[3:54]So that's what happened in our family, too.
[3:57]So this is the story of me fighting back
[3:59]and trying to find my own voice as I aged.
[4:05]So the book covers about a decade.
[4:08]Yeah, 10 years.
[4:09]But one of the questions that I had when I was reading it
[4:12]is why 19, as opposed to 20 or 18,
[4:16]because it covers such a long period of time.
[4:18]Is there a reason why?
[4:19]So it starts where 14 left off.
[4:21]It starts the chronological story of our family,
[4:25]our life, and everything.
[4:26]But it's called 19 because that's the year my father died,
[4:30]when I was 19.
[4:32]And for as much as I hated him for all the stuff
[4:36]that he put me through, I loved him so much
[4:40]for being a great father.
[4:43]I mean, he was the extremes on both ends.
[4:46]And so when he died, I just felt like I had spent my whole life
[4:55]pushing up against him and proving to him that I could do it
[4:58]and doing the next-
[5:00]challenge, the next adventure, the next thing that he, the next bar he raised for me.
[5:06]And when he died in an airplane crash when I was 19, in his own plane in Mexico, in the
[5:12]jungles, he, I sort of lost myself. I just, like, I was confused why I was so sad that
[5:20]he was gone because I'd wished for him to be dead for years and years and years. And then
[5:25]he was dead and it was like, well, who am I now in relation to every, at 19, I was just lost.
[5:31]And so this is the year that I, I really defined my life when he died. I had to become
[5:39]who I was. Yeah, I think so. You mentioned that we talked a bit beforehand about some
[5:47]of the themes. And I think one of the things that we both talked about, I had a controlling
[5:52]father's well not in the same way. But I think that when you grow up with a father
[5:58]like that or a mother like that, there's this dichotomy, this love-hate dichotomy. But
[6:04]also you, you, you take on at some point, it becomes your own voice. Your, their voice is
[6:11]gone. He's died. But the, the voice now is inside of you. Can you talk a little bit about
[6:16]that and how you overcame that? So that was haunting because, you know, like in any
[6:21]abusive situation, when you're being told you're stupid, when you're being told you
[6:25]can't do it, you know, all of the things that abusers tell their kids or their victims
[6:33]or whatever, that sort of becomes your internal dialogue. And I, at the end, when I, you
[6:40]know, I went off the deep end and I drank and used for six years. And then I got sober
[6:46]in a program in a treatment program. And one of the first questions I asked the therapist
[6:52]in the program is when is this voice in my head going to be gone? Because it just tells
[6:58]me I can't do it. I'm not good enough. I'm never going to amount to anything. And, you
[7:07]know, it took years. It took years for it, years of work and recovery and therapy and
[7:14]all kinds of personal growth. It took decades really for it to be gone all together.
[7:21]It's still creeps up when I'm in a, when I'm in a situation where I'm vulnerable, like
[7:26]maybe tonight. Like I have a button. You know, we all have these buttons. Yeah. Yeah.
[7:30]Trigger my button is I'm not good enough. And so my voice tells me I'm not good enough
[7:36]to sit here in front of you and tell you, why would you be interested in my story kind
[7:40]of thing? But I fight back against all of that now. So yeah. And I think when we, we were
[7:48]just talking about this briefly just today, that there's tools that you used to kind of
[7:54]overcome some of those messages that you had. And you, one of the things that's interesting
[8:00]when you guys read 19 is that, and correct me if I'm wrong in this interpretation, but Leslie
[8:07]was sort of asked to be the adult in many ways in a situation. But at the same time, she
[8:12]was incredibly vulnerable. So you're, you're, you're, you're being asked to take on a
[8:18]role that the parents should be taking on. And at the same time, they're discounting you.
[8:25]So you're in this constant state of, of not being sure what's safe and, and that feeling
[8:33]of being unsafe makes you doubt people as you go through life. Right. But you manage to move
[8:42]yourself from being this vulnerable mini adult to somebody who's successful has good, you know,
[8:50]a family life to kids. What were some of the tools that helped you along the way? I know you
[8:55]mentioned therapy, but were there other things that helped you get to that point? Well, I mean, yeah,
[9:02]so it, it was all came in layers really when I got sober. I got sober in the program and I did
[9:10]the steps and I did everything that the 12 step is 12 steps and got a sponsor. And I took the
[9:17]anger management class through the council on alcohol, alcoholism. And this was back when I was 25. Wow,
[9:23]I'm 64 now. So it's a long time ago. And it's been a long trajectory of healing. And I don't think
[9:32]I could have written this book 30 years ago or even 20 years ago. It's like I had to wait now and to be as
[9:41]healed as I am and having raised two children. And you mentioned to me that you guys did a program
[9:47]where you guys did an adult thing and then your kids were doing. So when we had kids, of course,
[9:52]we started parenting them the way we were parented. And that's just what happened. You just
[9:57]sort of, that's how all this stuff gets past generation.
[10:00]generation and David and I were fighting terribly and so we found a parenting program and we started
[10:08]taking classes at this parenting program because I was a very autocratic parent like my was raised
[10:13]and he was very lenient parent like he was raised and it wasn't working for us but we found
[10:19]these new tools and we focused on it for several years we took these classes and they had a
[10:25]kids class even where the kids could go and learn how to say what they wanted and how they felt
[10:31]and they could you know participate in the class with the other kids and then the parents would
[10:38]be in another class so all of these skills it's like you think about back on them now it's like
[10:45]it's just a reeducation yeah everything it's a reeducation of everything that I was taught and
[10:51]that's so hard I think that's one of the things like I know and I was raised in a very traditional
[10:59]like happy home five kids foster kids my mom was a school teacher my father was a pastor of course
[11:06]we had our skeletons in the closet but um but even then there's like the patterns that you're
[11:12]talking about that you take on and sometimes Leslie and I were talking about like sometimes you
[11:17]see something you see yourself doing something and you go no you know then you oh my god I
[11:22]sound just like my father yes and we all do that but for my mother or my mother and um but I
[11:29]think it's also super important what you were mentioning about doing something for the kids because
[11:34]I think sometimes as you know kids hold on to something because they feel like they're supposed
[11:41]to be the good like they're supposed to be good they're not supposed to make waves and they
[11:46]don't know how to communicate their feelings sometimes and I think that's fabulous that you guys
[11:52]did that I didn't even know that kind of thing existed well I mean I think if I could just I think
[11:58]I was raised like my hair was on fire I was crazy life until 19 and everything just stopped
[12:04]and then it was like well then what and taking all that forward the kids when when our kids
[12:11]hear about my life back then they think oh I want to live like that I want to sail around the world
[12:17]I want to go recover stolen votes under cover I want to deliver a vote from Hawaii I want to
[12:22]do all these amazing adventures but that's just kind of that's just like part of it the other part
[12:30]of it is all the stuff you got to pay for in order to have that experience you know and and so
[12:36]I wanted to give them this kind of Aussie in Harriet family I really wanted to live on a cul-de-sac
[12:45]and I wanted to have kids that they could play with then I could call them in for dinner and
[12:49]I just really wanted and we did that and that's one of the things that I most proud of is that I
[12:54]stopped what happened to me moving forward I didn't pass down the abuse or the things that
[13:02]were done to me and I'm really proud that they're they're really great human beings both of our
[13:08]kids and we're really proud of them so it's a hard work it's a very no it's a very hard thing to
[13:14]end you know like to end those patterns they naturally just like you said it's some of it is just
[13:21]ingrained in you yeah you don't even know you're doing it and then you find yourself doing it
[13:25]one of the things you also mentioned to me in the previous conversation was that
[13:28]this was really hard to write but that it was also in a way a gift can you tell us or talk a
[13:33]little bit more about that part of it well I mean in order to write it I sort of had to relive it
[13:42]and when you relive it then it's like another trauma it's like a whole another level like
[13:46]healing the onion again and and so after years and years of really not dealing with it and
[13:52]living my own life and trying to get new skills like I was just talking about then to go back and
[13:59]re you know visit at all revisit and dig it all up again I had to start therapy specifically
[14:06]I would write pages and I would send them to my therapist and then I would send them to my editor
[14:12]and then I would meet with my therapist about the pages and then I would meet with my editor
[14:16]about the pages and it was like this was for like six months we were living in Mexico over a winter
[14:23]and it was a really hard winter because I was just going through the whole book again and really
[14:30]putting everything down which got completely edited you know you kind of write it all
[14:37]spill it yeah spill it all out and then the editor comes in and kind of tones it all down
[14:41]and so it's much more manageable now so when you when you were doing that process because I
[14:47]think there's some other memoir writers here did you did you feel things viscerally again and
[14:56]and did you anxiety attached yeah and so could you
[15:00]when you went to the therapist was were you able to sort of step aside and sort of see it
[15:04]from above and analyze it differently and how did that inform the book? Do you feel like there's
[15:13]like how did you manage that being in the moment but also reflecting on it?
[15:20]Well I mean with each of the scenes you know it's like I'm writing each of the scenes in the book
[15:26]and I'm reliving it but I'm also trying to bring some wisdom and showing I'm in my gap
[15:33]was a really complex person and so I think in 14 if you've read 14 you see that he's a whole
[15:41]person there he's not like some cardboard cut out of a horrible father who abuses his daughter
[15:47]and takes them around the world. He's like a he's like a real person and so that was really important
[15:53]to me to write my mom who also struggled you know she met my dad she met my dad when she was 21
[16:01]and they had three kids right away and usually mental health issues don't show up until your
[16:07]early 20s sometimes the real story is 19 to 26 years usually though so she had three kids and then
[16:14]she started having mental breakdowns and and needing to go into the hospital and back then in the
[16:22]60s it wasn't anything like it is now so that sort of that cloud followed us all through our
[16:29]childhood and not having her around to be the mom. She did cook Thanksgiving dinner in Christmas
[16:37]dinner and she did show up sometimes and but um I lost my train of thought. Anyway I can see her
[16:47]as a whole person like my heart goes out to her because she struggles so much but then it makes me
[16:53]so mad when she's not there and I'm like 14 and she's she's completely abandoned me and I'm
[16:59]all on my own to fight on my own and it's like you know it's just this love hate thing again yeah
[17:05]it's like this and it's that being having to be a doll. She falls in the end having to be the
[17:10]adult having to be the adults and dad looking at me like I was his miniature wife kind of because
[17:15]I took care of all the other stuff I was kind of organized and I was kind of full and you know I mean
[17:21]yeah. So when we I thought it was interesting because you guys lived on the sailboat for
[17:29]a while as adults right? We still have a boat now. No we sold it when we moved to Washington
[17:36]so one of the things that I wanted to ask you about is as you were moving from childhood and
[17:42]then through your recovery and then into adulthood. What did you hold what did you hold on to
[17:50]from your childhood and what did you let go of? Because you clearly held onto sailing because like for
[17:55]some people the scene of the trauma is the something you don't want to ever have anything to do with
[18:00]again and and you're still a sailor and I just I yeah. It really got in my heart and my soul I just
[18:08]really took to it. I loved it so much. I really communed with the ocean. I feel like when we were
[18:13]sailing and we were at sea it was what filled me up. It wouldn't you know being on watch by myself with
[18:21]the sky and ocean and just really feeling connected to the natural world. I don't know what
[18:28]I don't know how to explain it but it just was something that I loved and I would always do
[18:33]and I still will always do. It's like hiking. I feel the same way about hiking. The nature in
[18:38]general in general was sort of my solace and I think that's pretty common with kids who are abused.
[18:47]They find the escape. Yeah. Yeah. It's an escape in nature and a city with pets or whatever. I mean
[18:55]for some kids it's reading or like school is where they can be safe. That's what they want to
[19:00]come onto. So you guys one of the things that I mean having read both 14 and 19.
[19:08]There's scenes where she's like what 15, 16 years old. How old were you when the wall of water was
[19:15]coming at you? 14. I mean just imagine that you're 14 years old. You're at the helm. You're the
[19:22]only one at the helm of a boat and a wall of water is coming at you. Like I can't, I get the
[19:30]shivers just thinking like we sail but my husband and I are not blue water sailors. We're white
[19:36]water. Like you got to always see land. But just that whole like some of the scenes and I can't
[19:43]urge you enough to read this book because some of the scenes just they take your breath away
[19:49]and when you realize how young you were and how the it's it's it's crazy making in a way just
[20:00]reading it and you managed to find music and poetry and all of that which
[20:05]do you know we're like when you look back on it now do you just and do you
[20:10]now feel like a sense of ownership of that creativity and all of that that's
[20:14]insight that must have been inside of you even as a kid yeah well I always knew
[20:18]I would write I just I always knew I was gonna be a writer it was not a
[20:22]question it was just a question of when when I was gonna be able to write
[20:26]because everything was always happening and it was so much happening and
[20:30]then when he died then I went off the deep end and then I got sober and then
[20:34]I met my husband and then we had a business and then we had two kids and it
[20:37]was like is it ever gonna be time for me to write so I used to say show me a
[20:42]sign to the universe show me a sign that it's my turn to write and finally I
[20:47]got the sign and what was it what was the sign so I was taking classes like
[20:51]sneaking away taking classes at UCSD for writing just trying to get back into
[20:55]writing and all this as the kids were growing up and one of the teachers was
[21:00]Judy Reeves in San Diego and she yeah she's awesome she's my heart my mentor
[21:08]my writing person and she's 83 now I can't believe she's 83 anyway love
[21:16]Judy and she sent me an email inviting me into a reading critique group she
[21:21]said everyone in the group is gonna write a book and I know you have a book to
[21:23]write so let's go when I was like the sign from the universe again
[21:27]I came in the form of an email from Judy and I called the family together and
[21:32]I'm like sit down and out it's time to learn how to do laundry and make your own
[21:36]dinner because when I have pages due I am driving to San Diego to give them to
[21:40]Judy and this group and that's what I did for two years and that's how I wrote
[21:44]14 so how long did it take from start to finish for 14 three years oh that's
[21:49]good yeah that's pretty cool I was pretty close to it yeah my first book
[21:53]2010 but 19 took longer well 19 yeah well yeah because of the tragedies in my
[22:00]family yeah so I read them a sub-stack the other day about memoir and it named
[22:08]something called FOF like FOMO but FAW and it stands for Fear Family and I
[22:15]think for a lot of memoirs that's a serious concern right you're writing about
[22:19]your story but your story by its very nature involves the lives of others and
[22:24]how do you manage that and keep that and I know that that was something that was
[22:29]hard for you and also something that caused some do you mind sharing with us
[22:34]what happened after 14 so by the time that it was time for me to write my book
[22:38]and the universe said yes it was like nobody was gonna stop me and my mom was
[22:44]still alive and Monica was alive when I was writing 14 she helped me
[22:50]write 14 we talked on the phone all the time but she struggled with alcohol and
[22:54]drugs her whole life and it just turned trot Monica's her older sister my older
[22:58]sister she's only a year and five days older than me so we were very close
[23:04]growing up my mom justice's twins I mean it was the whole thing so
[23:10]she helped you write it sorry she helped me write it and then when it
[23:15]was done my publisher Brooke Warner said you should give a manuscript to your
[23:21]family and so I did and when I gave it to my mom she said can you take the
[23:27]parts about me out and I was like no I'm sorry I love you so much but now I
[23:37]can't because they happen and you weren't there when that happened and that's
[23:42]what happened and when you did come this is you know and so that was really
[23:46]hard so she didn't come to my book launch she but but she eventually made
[23:51]peace with it and she said just promise me you won't publish anything more
[23:56]about me and talk after I passed away so she passed away in 2021 and here we are
[24:02]so I mean I who says who has that saying that says if you wanted us to
[24:09]write a nice about you you should invite us to bite my bad things about you
[24:16]should have been nicer to me you shouldn't yeah I mean I don't know I mean I
[24:21]know but you wasn't great either and I know it gets passed down but at some
[24:26]point it has to stop and we have to start talking about it because there's
[24:30]only we're gonna change the culture of all of this in the families unless we
[24:35]start talking about it we need to start talking about it I there's phrase I
[24:40]use for I came up with it when I was talking about my first book which is about
[24:44]trauma recovery and it was the phrases trapped by the unspoken and I think for a
[24:49]lot of people that's what happens is you don't want to talk about it and so
[24:53]you never heal from it because if you can't address it how do you how do you
[24:57]heal and it is really hard it's
[25:00]like a chicken and egg thing because you can't get started. Yeah, it's very hard. So unless
[25:07]you're like, I felt, I felt desperate. If I wasn't going to try to get help and stay sober,
[25:12]so I was staying sober was the foundation of what led me to find recovery in other areas
[25:20]of my life. First, I had to get rid of the men, the alcohol and the cocaine. And when
[25:27]all of those were gone, then it was just me. And then I got to look at me and it wasn't very
[25:33]good. And I had a lot of work to do. And so I kind of just started doing that one inch at a time.
[25:40]And if you just do it one inch at a time, it adds up. We get healed eventually. We get to the
[25:46]point where we can talk about it like in front of a crowd. I'm like, God, you know, it's like
[25:51]nobody even knew this even happened to me at age 25 when I got sober. I had anxiety attacks just
[25:59]talking about what happened to me. So the fact that I'm, you know, it's good. It's good. Well,
[26:05]it makes sense. I mean, if you think about the factors that led into the factors of your childhood,
[26:10]your dad, so wanting to prove both men totally makes sense. Your mom had a drinking issue,
[26:17]totally makes sense. Like you were basically living out your parents' example until you were
[26:23]able to stop them. We all do. We all do. Right. Yeah. So, all right. Now I would like to, unless,
[26:32]is there anything else that you want to tell everybody before we go to questions? I don't think so.
[26:38]So now it's time for you guys to talk and ask your questions. Anybody have a question?
[26:43]Um, if you find 14 or 19, right? To, right? Yes. And do you have an everybody?
[26:52]No more memoir. I'm done, I think. I'm about to write it wrong from next. There you go.
[26:59]With my daughter, I think she wants to write something and so I'm like, let's do it.
[27:04]Let's have some fun. Let's write it fun. Her daughter is the one that, like,
[27:08]because she also does my social media. She's amazing. Anyway, I think 19 was harder. Because
[27:20]14, I'm more of a victim because I'm young and I don't really have choices. I'm putting these
[27:26]circumstances and things are done to me or whatever. In 19, it's like, I get like an attitude.
[27:33]I'm like, I'm going to show you. And this is, you know, I was just a complete rebellious.
[27:42]I just did what I wanted and I paid the price for it and that's, you know, how it goes. And so
[27:48]that was on me. And so exposing that side of me fell a little bit. But again, you're young.
[27:55]You had a controlling father, but you also didn't have a lot of structure in your life.
[28:03]No. I mean, I think most of us, you know, when you're going through your teen years,
[28:07]that you're in school. So you're going to school every day. And even if you don't like
[28:12]school and even if you skip school, there's still a structure. But you were going in between,
[28:16]I mean, the number of schools you went to and where you went to school. Five high schools.
[28:20]I mean, it's, I know. And then the willingness of your dad to take you out of school to do something
[28:28]else kind of that would translate, I think, to any kid will schools not that important, right?
[28:34]I mean, if that's so I don't, I think I understand why 19 was harder, but I think that some of it
[28:39]is is you're still hard on yourself. Yeah, even now you're really hard on yourself.
[28:44]Yes, I am. And that comes from my channel. He held the bar really high. And in some ways,
[28:51]it's weird. Some ways, I'm really grateful for that because I've accomplished a lot because of that,
[28:56]but it comes at a cost, right? It's like I have to learn how to be more compassionate with myself
[29:02]and understanding. And it's like, those are those are the adult lessons for me. But yeah,
[29:08]the learning how to forgive myself and allow myself to make a mistake and allow myself to
[29:16]it's hard. It's like I want to just keep pushing and pushing. It's like in me or something.
[29:22]I don't know. Well, and I think admitting, admitting vulnerability because I think when you were vulnerable
[29:26]as a child, you couldn't be. Yeah, there was no place for it. So even now, there's probably a
[29:32]little bit of a resistance inside you saying vulnerability is not a good thing. And what you did
[29:38]this is the most vulnerable we can be. When you put your life out for everyone to read,
[29:43]that is the most vulnerable thing. So I think just between you and Nia's friends,
[29:48]I hope that you take some strength from knowing that you have that power. That's incredible.
[29:54]I mean, it really is the gifts of being connected with these young girls at these events.
[30:00]do. Like I met a young girl named Molly at the Pacific Northwest Writers Association when we did a
[30:06]panel and she came up afterwards and she bought my book and she was just amazing. She was like wanting
[30:12]to heal herself. She was young. She wanted to write her own story and we connected and at every place
[30:20]I go pretty much. I get to talk to when I came here for the Zibi event in September I met a girl
[30:28]named Dylan and she bought one of the books and she it's connecting with those people I think
[30:34]it's all worth it because they are looking for someone. They are looking for someone who's ahead of
[30:39]them on the path and I'm happy to show you the way. They might be there their universe talking to
[30:45]them. When you were waiting for the universe you might be that for someone else. Yes and I have been
[30:50]that for someone else a couple times and it's quite an honor. It is really the gift of it. It's pretty
[30:57]amazing. I keep getting these ones. All right. So I was going to ask you what the most rewarding part
[31:06]of writing this book was to you and it sounds like the cancer hit. So what message do you have
[31:13]to young girls if you see that you meet or the people that are struggling with what they went
[31:20]through? Obviously it's more identical but it could be an alcohol drug and could be not
[31:26]the other side. What message do you have? I think most rewarding part sounds like it's easy on
[31:31]levels. It is. It is but I mean I just want to tell tell the young girls that you have so many
[31:41]gifts that we need. Please believe in yourself. Please keep going. Please invest in yourself because
[31:48]you're worth it. We need your stories. We need you to be out here helping us carry the message.
[31:55]It's like a groundswell. You know we're changing the culture. It's not easy and we need everyone
[32:01]involved here. Everyone coming out and I'm happy to support anyone who's doing that really honestly.
[32:09]Well I think your message of it ends with me like I know that that's a name of the calling
[32:14]of her book and I didn't even make it sound like because this is not. This is
[32:19]but the idea that that taking that stand and telling those stories that that's the only way
[32:28]again getting rid of the unspoken because that's it's the only way that we're going to be able to
[32:33]to address it and heal it. So yeah.
[32:38]Thank you. So for 14 I recall you saying that you relied on diaries and the ships log.
[32:45]What did you use for 19 to recall events for four years?
[32:50]So I still kept a diary. I have a lot of writings myself and I also have
[32:58]poetry that I wrote and friends that that were around at that time. I have communed with him.
[33:08]We've talked about there's a scene in here where a girlfriend of mine signs me up for the
[33:12]Miss Newport Beach pageant and she and I she just passed away from cancer but she and I just
[33:19]relived our whole crazy fun. This was fun. We were in Newport Beach. We were bar hopping. We were
[33:24]going. We were just having a blast and she's like I'm signing you up and it's like and then we
[33:30]did. I had to do the whole thing and it was horrible being up on stage. She played the guitar.
[33:35]I played the guitar. I played Carol King's hands or whatever because that's what we did at
[33:40]sea when we had our guitar. Anyway yeah so I had different different and I remembered more
[33:48]because I was older. I don't know what's going to happen to them. I think I'm just going
[34:02]to throw them out. I think I don't want to honor them anymore. I think I've written it here
[34:08]and I'm done and I'm ready to release it and I don't want to pass that on to my kids. What
[34:14]are we going to do with it? Yeah. They don't want to read all that but also you know what's so
[34:18]interesting is that um sorry this is an aside but we found a journal that my mother-in-law had written
[34:26]and we were reading parts of it and as outsiders we thought it sounded so horrible right some of
[34:33]the things that she went through but then we realized that we were not seeing any of the good stuff.
[34:38]It's sort of like when your kids go off to college if any of you have had this happen they call you
[34:43]and they're no one invited them to sit with them or you know whatever and you hang up and you're like
[34:48]oh this is so awful and then you talked to them two days later and they're like oh yeah then like
[34:55]five minutes later somebody came and which I went to a party and you've been living with their
[35:00]for two days and they are gone.
[35:02]And I think that that's, that can be the same thing
[35:04]that happens with things that people leave behind.
[35:07]Like, we feel all your angst and we don't feel the healing.
[35:10]So I think that sometimes those things are better left.
[35:17]Gone.
[35:18]What about us to say it?
[35:20]Better left, not left.
[35:21]No, I agree.
[35:22]I don't think there's any reason to enshrine them.
[35:25]I'm, unless of course your books
[35:29]are going to end up in all your journals.
[35:30]They're going to end up at UCLA and they're rare.
[35:33]Oh, they're bad.
[35:37]They're not having an immune.
[35:40]You never say that.
[35:42]So do we have any other questions?
[35:45]So, you know, I mean, now as an adult,
[35:47]you can look back and you can recognize
[35:50]that, you know, what you lived through
[35:51]was not normal, it was toxic, it was awful.
[35:55]When you were actually going through it,
[35:57]you could recognize that this was not normal
[36:00]or did you think this is normal
[36:03]because this is all I know?
[36:06]Well, a little bit of both, I think.
[36:08]And so I knew we weren't normal
[36:10]like other kids at school.
[36:12]Like, cause where they were always like,
[36:13]oh, she's the one who lives on the boat, you know?
[36:15]And, you know, she's the one who lives on the ranch
[36:18]and has to ride her bike five miles in the town.
[36:20]You know, it's like, we were always different.
[36:24]And he always kept us kind of separate.
[36:27]We were not really in shrunk and in meshed in a community.
[36:31]We were constantly moving every couple of years.
[36:33]And so, what was the other part of that question?
[36:38]I'm sorry.
[36:39]Did you know that, did you know that it's,
[36:41]but I'm also the, like, the abuse.
[36:44]And did you know that that was not right?
[36:47]That it was not normal that.
[36:49]Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think.
[36:54]Yeah, I mean, he wouldn't let us wear bras.
[36:56]He wouldn't let us wear bait where he wouldn't let us,
[36:59]we had to sleep naked.
[37:00]He wouldn't, he wouldn't, it was some kind of weirdo things
[37:04]that I knew wasn't normal
[37:06]because when I would go sleep at my girlfriend's house,
[37:08]she had a bra as she got to work with Jamas.
[37:10]And it's like, you know, kind of thing.
[37:12]So I knew that that was kind of different and weird.
[37:17]But at the same time, it was just the reality
[37:19]we had to deal with.
[37:20]And it was just, you know, game on all the time.
[37:23]And like, I'm tracking it wherever he is.
[37:27]Yeah.
[37:28]Kind of thing.
[37:29]Yeah.
[37:31]So, I know we have to
[37:33]see a tag chart, but, but one of the things that that you mentioned
[37:37]to me and I meant to bring it up earlier is that
[37:40]one of the remnants is that sometimes you find yourself
[37:45]reacting to people and not immediately understanding why.
[37:50]Um, so some of the remnants of being raised that no matter
[37:54]how much healing, it's like there's always seems like
[37:56]there's something.
[37:57]And one of the things that I struggle with is my,
[38:00]my uncontrollable sense of fear sometimes.
[38:03]Sometimes I just get really afraid of a situation or a person
[38:09]or we walk into a room and it would just feel really bad.
[38:12]And I don't know why.
[38:14]And I used to really just blow that all off
[38:16]and just sort of power through it.
[38:18]And I'm becoming better at listening to myself over the years.
[38:24]And so when I have a situation like that, I pay attention.
[38:28]And like, I'm, my core husband, I'm like, are the doors locked?
[38:32]Are all the windows locked?
[38:34]I'm, is everything batten down?
[38:36]Are you sure no one can get in?
[38:38]I'm like, because I was constantly feeling like someone was
[38:42]coming to get me as a child.
[38:44]And I think, I don't know if I'm ever going to get over that.
[38:46]That kind of sucks to not be able to live in safety.
[38:52]But I think I don't know.
[38:54]Maybe just when your brain is little and you grow up that way.
[38:57]And fear all the time that that's just part of the DNA of it.
[39:01]So I'm learning to listen and think gosh, I'm married to such a great guy
[39:07]because he listens to me when I, when I'm like, I can't go in there.
[39:14]I don't want to do that.
[39:15]Did you lock the door?
[39:16]Can we go now?
[39:18]You know, kind of thing.
[39:19]He's great.
[39:19]He's like, doesn't ask any questions.
[39:21]You're like, yep, we're here.
[39:22]We're out.
[39:24]Well, I think acknowledging that.
[39:25]I mean, I think that's another thing that is a good takeaway from the
[39:28]books is that sometimes there's things we can change.
[39:33]And then sometimes there's things we just have to say, it is what it is.
[39:38]And I'm not, there's nothing wrong with me for acknowledging that.
[39:42]There's nothing that doesn't make me faulty or weird or strange or weak.
[39:49]It's just something that is part of me learning to integrate it.
[39:52]And I have to learn how to integrate it and to accept it and to not judge myself.
[39:59]Yeah.
[40:00]it because I think that's another thing that I love about your book is it's such a unique story
[40:06]as all memoirs are but there's also so many things that are relatable and I think when people read it
[40:12]they will be able to see those universal truths. The more personal you are, the more
[40:18]universally your story becomes and you really go there and I am so proud of you and I know
[40:25]yeah I hope you are proud of yourself. I am very proud of it and I hope you all
[40:32]thanks and thank you everyone I appreciate it so now we're going to have you have the opportunity
[40:38]to buy and get your book signed by Leslie and um and I have yes we haven't said anything about
[40:46]and I know it's not about me. She has written a few amazing books. This is her first book,
[40:51]Lord Bates which is a really good read, a really good book and this one was her second book
[40:58]also very good. They're both about mental illness and healing for mental illness. I would
[41:04]this one I say is um this is the trap by the unspoken book um it's trauma recovery wrapped up in a
[41:11]domestic thriller and this one is about two young adults who meet and fall in love in a residential
[41:19]psychiatric facility, leave against medical advice to take off on a cross country journey
[41:24]and because they are young adults, the authorities will do nothing to help their families find them
[41:30]and so the two moms join forces and take off after them with just a handful of clues as to where
[41:38]they might be. So it's kind of the young people going from New York to Yosemite and the moms
[41:44]just a little bit after them taking a similar journey, trying to find them before things go sideways.
[41:50]So those are the if you buy this you get this one for free. While supplies last you will look at us.
[41:57]I know questions but we still have them. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.
[42:07]Thank you for sharing such a personal story. Congratulations. Thank you for being here in a
[42:11]stage. Thank you for taking a picture on that note. Please buy the book if you don't have it
[42:16]all of the books and I'm sure they'll both be happy to sign.