Behind the LATE FAME Film with Filmmakers & Cast Live at Zibby's Bookshop
[0:00]Q&A, Ken has been doing a lot of Q&As lately
[0:03]for people who have seen the film.
[0:06]I would imagine, I know one person has seen the film
[0:09]I met him earlier.
[0:11]I think like 95% of you have not seen the film.
[0:14]So a little bit different, sort of Q&A,
[0:19]kind of going based off of the book,
[0:21]which I hope everybody picks up a copy of,
[0:24]they could really use some sales
[0:25]because it came out in 1895.
[0:27]Yeah.
[0:29]And so they're just, they're still going.
[0:32]I mean, maybe that's like some sort of record.
[0:34]Yeah.
[0:35]All right.
[0:36]So, all right.
[0:37]So, Ken, like I said, this has been a little different.
[0:40]This is a little different.
[0:41]Why don't you set it up for everybody?
[0:44]What is the movie lay-fam about?
[0:47]What could they expect to see when you...
[0:49]Did you introduce crew?
[0:50]Oh, my God.
[0:51]Oh, my God.
[0:53]If everybody get there.
[0:54]We're gonna get there.
[0:55]We're gonna get there.
[0:56]Sort of part of the reason why I didn't introduce Graham
[1:00]at the start.
[1:01]But I'm going to get to Graham
[1:03]because it's really a magical that Graham's here tonight.
[1:07]And I'm gonna tell everybody why in one second.
[1:09]Would you tell everybody what lay-fams about?
[1:11]Yeah.
[1:13]Lay-fam is about a poet named Ed Sacks for a bird.
[1:16]Should we be, should it be going like this?
[1:18]Yeah.
[1:18]It's a little Mike.
[1:19]Yeah.
[1:20]It's about a poet.
[1:21]Yeah, they're Mike's diet, apparently.
[1:22]Yeah.
[1:23]So, I know.
[1:23]So, goodbye, Mike's.
[1:25]It's about a poet named, I know.
[1:28]It's about a man named Ed Sacksburger
[1:29]who works in the post office,
[1:31]reminding his own business,
[1:33]coming home from work one night.
[1:35]And then he's accosted by a young man who says,
[1:38]you're Ed Sacksburger, the poet.
[1:41]I was, you know, what do you mean?
[1:43]And he says, well, I read your book,
[1:44]you know, that you read 40 years ago.
[1:46]And it's a masterpiece.
[1:48]And I really love it.
[1:50]And my group wants to meet you.
[1:54]And he says, what do you mean, your group?
[1:56]And she says, well, we're a group of people.
[1:58]It's called, you know, and poets and writers and artists
[2:02]and, you know, kind of a, so he kind of lures him
[2:06]into this world where this group,
[2:09]and here's a member of the group,
[2:11]the enthusiasm society,
[2:14]which Ed remarks is a very Victorian kind of standing name,
[2:19]is the convene and they decide that they want.
[2:23]him to write another poem.
[2:26]And he gets kind of like drawn into this world
[2:29]and to the illusion that, you know,
[2:31]many of us would certainly have,
[2:34]if we were confronted with the same kind of situation
[2:37]of reliving our youth,
[2:40]of revisiting our youth.
[2:42]And that's how the story begins.
[2:45]And so the enthusiasm society.
[2:47]I feel so good.
[2:49]The, the boys, the fellas, right?
[2:51]So I remember one day we were shooting the film.
[2:55]It was early on.
[2:56]You came out of a room working with the boys.
[2:59]It was my partners Austin and Ethan for Morning Moon.
[3:04]And we said, how's it going in there with those guys?
[3:06]And you said, you looked as straight in the eye
[3:08]and you said, Graham Campbell,
[3:11]he said, Graham Campbell is gonna be a star.
[3:14]And we, and that's true story.
[3:16]And everyone, this is Graham Campbell.
[3:21]Okay, now I can.
[3:22]Okay.
[3:24]This is Graham Campbell.
[3:25]And it's really fitting because Ed Sacksberger,
[3:30]the, who Willem Dafoe's character in the movie,
[3:33]is, you know, he sort of ends up becoming famous,
[3:38]sort of later in life.
[3:39]And Graham isn't later in life.
[3:42]Graham is younger in life.
[3:43]But when we filmed this movie in early 2025 in New York,
[3:49]Graham was a relatively unknown actor.
[3:53]What'd you say?
[3:55]I would still say.
[3:56]You would still say, and then since then,
[4:00]Graham has been cast in the shards by Ryan Murphy,
[4:04]which is the number one show on Disney right now.
[4:08]Congratulations.
[4:09]Clap it up for that.
[4:10]Clap it up for that.
[4:12]Also based on a book.
[4:15]And Graham is like the biggest star
[4:17]on the planet now.
[4:18]He's on every billboard.
[4:20]I kid you not, every billboard, every bus stop,
[4:24]every cab from here to New York City.
[4:26]And it's really remarkable.
[4:27]And Graham, I want to know sort of what this has been like
[4:31]for you is, you know, going off of fame.
[4:35]What is sort of this newfound fame
[4:37]that Ed Sacksberger also finds in the film.
[4:42]You've picked the team.
[4:43]I was going to say, do you want to take that one?
[4:45]Well, I think we were talking in the car
[4:47]in the way here, because Ken and I drove here together.
[4:48]It's I think it's very sweet that I'm very lucky
[4:53]to have two frontward facing things
[4:55]that are so, so different in terms of storytelling
[4:58]and aesthetics and also.
[5:00]one is very much about what it meant to be a young person in 1981 and one is
[5:05]about what it means to try to be a young person and an artist in 2026. And I
[5:10]think to some extent they're part of the same kind of conversation. I feel
[5:14]very lucky that I was able to participate in that conversation in two
[5:17]different ways at one time, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean putting the group
[5:25]together of these five guys, the enthusiasm society, that's look apart
[5:30]upon Arthur Langley, Edmund Donovan is the leader of the group. He plays the
[5:34]character of Myers, Clay Singer, and Graham was a really joyful process for me
[5:44]because to figure out how everybody fit together visually, behave
[5:50]you know, and it turns out that a bunch of you guys knew each other. Yeah.
[5:54]Right. Yeah. Yeah. And have become the best of friends too. And there was such a
[5:59]mixed match in the casting process, which was cool. Are you still writing poetry
[6:03]together? Sort of. Yeah. If you call a group chat, poetry. Yeah. So like we we
[6:11]said earlier, this book was like written in 1985. Yeah. I know I was there
[6:17]when he finished it. And he said, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Which is
[6:24]real. You look great though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't like it. He didn't even like
[6:32]it. And now look at us. Yeah. He kind of filed it away. So went on
[6:37]published forever. You know, you want to break the news to everybody. What
[6:41]Arthur Schnitzler was really the most famous for his most famous book turned
[6:44]into probably the most famous film from from his repertoire. I don't know
[6:48]about the most famous film, but yeah, from his repertoire. Well, I mean,
[6:53]Arthur Schnitzler was a contemporary of Freud. He was a contemporary of
[6:56]Gustav Mahler in Vienna at the turn of the century. And he was part of that
[6:59]moment. And he wrote a great play called Laurent that was made into a
[7:08]fantastic movie in 1950 by Max O'Fools. But now you're referring to another
[7:14]film. He wrote a novel called a novella called Dream Story,
[7:18]Tromnovella, that was extremely unavailable for like 40 years because Stanley
[7:26]Kubrick bought up every copy of it to keep it out of other people's hands
[7:30]and wear housed at the mall. And there's some guy looking in the window.
[7:35]You know, that's cool. Hi. Yeah. So he was, and then eventually got around to
[7:44]making eyes wide shut based on that. And it's, that's also extremely
[7:51]faithful to Schnitzler. I don't know. I like our movie better. Yeah. Sorry.
[8:00]You did hear a movie. Yeah. No. That one. We can edit that one out. So tell us
[8:13]about it. So Sammy Birch, who was nominated for an Oscar for adapting from
[8:19]made this, not adapting. So she adapted this book along with you. Yeah. So tell us
[8:26]a little bit about the process of going, you know, from something so old to
[8:31]you put it in contemporary times. Yeah. You know, there are other books that
[8:36]have outsold it. You know, Dante, the divine comedy, that's sold been
[8:40]selling pretty well for, I don't know. Anyway, you know, hold it. Yeah, Dante's
[8:45]been, yeah, it's been done. Yeah. V. Odyssey. Anyway. Yeah. I know I heard
[8:51]that they did too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was called by Pam
[8:58]Coughler from killer films. And she said, you read Scripps Bay other people. And
[9:02]it was like, well, what is it, you know, who is it? And she said it was Sammy.
[9:05]And it was based on late fame. So I said, well, that's interesting. And it went out
[9:09]and I read the novella. And I, as I was waiting for the script to come to me. And
[9:15]I liked the situation in the novella. And then I preferred the script. And so
[9:22]it will develop. We both found it more warmer, more human less caustic in relation
[9:29]to the characters. I think that in the novella, the group was basically a bunch
[9:34]of charlatans and the character Gloria as well played. But about as beautifully
[9:41]as I can imagine, I graduated. Yeah. And so Sammy had wanted me to make the
[9:51]film because of my previous film Diane. And she and I met and hit it off
[9:58]immediately. And.
[10:00]and we just, you know, then things started rolling
[10:03]and then we found Willem and there's this story
[10:06]that I've repeated, you know.
[10:07]I want here at the end.
[10:08]Well, he and I have both repeated this a few times
[10:12]but I mean, we really got it down last week
[10:15]and you had that with all the different Q and A's.
[10:18]But he and I were out of no way
[10:21]and we were on a flight back to New York
[10:23]and we wound up being seated next to each other
[10:26]and by chance, Pam Coughler was seated two rows
[10:30]behind us and we just talked the whole time
[10:33]because we knew each other a little bit.
[10:36]We talked about absolutely everything
[10:37]but late fan by Arthur Schnutzler
[10:40]which is it turned out he had a copy of in his backpack
[10:46]because he was interested in the property.
[10:48]Someone was telling him about it.
[10:49]He got very interested in, you know,
[10:51]seeing if he could find the rights
[10:52]and then two days later apparently I called him
[10:55]and said, hi, are you interested in, you know,
[10:57]and he's like, you're kidding.
[10:59]You know, I've been interested in this myself.
[11:02]So there we were in the point talking about everything
[11:05]but and, you know, that was the beginning
[11:08]of the whole process.
[11:09]It's amazing.
[11:10]And so talking about Willem DeFoe
[11:12]one of the most iconic legendary actors of all time,
[11:16]Graham, what was it like for you working with Willem
[11:19]on late fame and then what have you sort of taken maybe
[11:22]from Willem into your newfound fame with the shards?
[11:26]Yeah, whoa.
[11:28]Because of Willem, I've tried to be as strange as humanly possible
[11:36]because he really owns that, yeah.
[11:38]No, but I think, I mean, I just got this movie
[11:41]as like an independent film like Capital I independent
[11:45]because we all shared a whole thing space
[11:47]next to the restaurant we were shooting at.
[11:49]So we were in like a church basement
[11:51]and it was Willem and he would always have lunch
[11:52]with us all together.
[11:53]And I think as wide-eyed as we were to hear
[11:58]and absorb everything that he knew about all of this
[12:00]in his whole life and his whole career,
[12:02]it wasn't lost on him that he had an opportunity
[12:05]to really have an exchange with us about,
[12:09]yeah, it was, it was sort of a pseudo mentorship thing.
[12:12]So that all started the Friday night
[12:14]before we started shooting too,
[12:15]because we all went out to, we got dinner together.
[12:18]And it was one of those moments
[12:20]when you had just, you create the right alchemy,
[12:23]the right group of people and we sat down
[12:24]and the movie just kind of started.
[12:26]Yeah.
[12:27]It just was sort of there at the table.
[12:28]It was for the camera start.
[12:29]Yeah, it was a real like life imitates art.
[12:31]It's how that's here in the chemistry.
[12:32]Yeah.
[12:34]There was very little work to be done
[12:35]other than kind of just getting everyone in one room.
[12:39]Getting everybody into the same frame of mind
[12:41]and you know, there's a thing that Marty Scriszy says,
[12:43]we all have to agree that we're making the same movie.
[12:45]Yeah.
[12:46]And I think that, you know, getting everybody,
[12:48]we were all in the same wavelength, you know,
[12:49]and that was really important for the group
[12:52]to function and will in relation to will
[12:54]and relation to each other and the movie itself.
[12:57]The small, I'm sure Edmund told it,
[12:59]but the smallest, will in stories that,
[13:01]he would, what are those big oranges
[13:03]that have the little, you know what I'm talking about?
[13:06]With the bump on him, you get him at the store?
[13:08]Yeah, this is the biggest orange you can think of.
[13:11]And he would get, he had one for lunch every day
[13:12]and he would, he would break up.
[13:14]But that's called a grapefruit.
[13:15]Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
[13:16]Or I was thinking, navel orange, is that right?
[13:18]navel orange, is that what I'm talking about?
[13:20]I should have trusted my gut,
[13:23]but he would break a piece off for every,
[13:26]one of the boys and we would all sit and share an orange
[13:29]and it became this ritual of sort of talking over citrus.
[13:34]Maybe you'll continue that on.
[13:36]I haven't had a word since that one.
[13:37]I haven't had a word since that one.
[13:38]Next time you go back to the shards, on set.
[13:40]You should start, Divi and I just,
[13:42]Divi and I just have some oranges.
[13:44]So, Graham, that's great.
[13:48]What you took from Willon?
[13:49]What did you learn from Kent that you took with you
[13:54]on your, on your journey here?
[13:58]I, on the journey here in the car.
[13:59]Yeah, the color.
[14:00]Yeah, it's like, what do I learn on the car ride?
[14:03]I don't know, I don't know.
[14:05]There's, I can't, can't some of those rare,
[14:09]kind of, well, since I was embarrassed
[14:11]that you said such a nice thing about me,
[14:13]but I didn't know about it.
[14:14]I'm much less afraid of you now.
[14:15]Oh, okay.
[14:16]Since I heard that story,
[14:17]just in front of all these people,
[14:18]I just found that out.
[14:20]Yeah, you were, yeah.
[14:21]You were petrified of me.
[14:22]Well, I was, I'm intimidated by your intelligence,
[14:24]your expertise.
[14:25]I've been very lucky in my life
[14:26]to collaborate with a handful of people
[14:29]that I really admire and I admire your intellect
[14:30]and I feel like I could come to you with any interest
[14:33]or problem cinema related or not.
[14:36]So, I carry that with me.
[14:38]And Kent's attention to detail is second to none.
[14:42]There was one day we were shooting in New Jersey
[14:46]and Kent was like, you know,
[14:50]the problem was shooting in New Jersey
[14:53]and I was like, and to, my partner's Ethan
[14:57]was like the tax credits,
[14:59]because that's just how you...
[15:00]and thanks right away. And you know, not the tax credit. You said it's the power lines
[15:06]because we were trying to fake New Jersey for New York City. And then he said to me,
[15:11]he ruined this Bob Dylan movie. He said, have you seen the Bob Dylan movie yet? And I said,
[15:16]no, not yet. And he goes, well, power lines. And a couple days later, I went and I saw it.
[15:22]And it was just nothing but power lines. And I was like, that's not New York City.
[15:26]That's that's Jersey City. Right? Imagine being that dialed in that you're you know,
[15:35]you know all about the power lines. I couldn't watch the movie and enjoy it.
[15:42]So, so talking about being that, talking about being that dialed in as a as a director. So,
[15:48]so Kent was was also a critic, right? Still are still are. No. At one point, no, impossible to be.
[15:58]So, right. So, so when you're directing, during Diane late fame,
[16:05]how hard is it for you to sort of separate the critic from the creative director that you are?
[16:13]They don't never the twin shall meet. You know, I mean, they just don't
[16:20]Paul Schrader, who's an old friend of mine, you know, was also a critic. He said, well, the
[16:24]difference is that when you're a critic, you know, when you're a director, you're trying to keep
[16:29]the baby alive. When you're a critic, you're doing an autopsy. That's that Schrader, you know,
[16:34]that's typical, you know, but I have to say that it's you know, it's not untrue in the sense that
[16:40]you know, some people think like, you know, oh, yeah, some people like the directors of the
[16:45]French New Wave were all critics, you know, and some people would say, oh, and they never really
[16:50]stopped being critics in the way that they made films. I mean, I'm sorry, that's just not true.
[16:54]I think that you, it's not a matter of, you know, the films that I've seen and that I know,
[17:04]it's like, yes, I'm familiar with a lot of stuff, but then I also, it plays a certain role
[17:10]in my memory when I'm making a film. That's different from when I was writing criticism.
[17:14]And when I was writing criticism, what I was trying to do was to like, figure out how films were
[17:18]made to get under the hood, but you can't get under the hood unless you make one. And it's
[17:24]completely different. And when I was shooting down, I had the experience very forcefully of,
[17:29]you know, understanding that in those first few days of shooting.
[17:33]Dad, it's not that I was trying to apply anything that I knew as a critic, but I don't know.
[17:39]It's just, you're not, you have to do two different things at the same time as a film maker,
[17:46]you have to keep everything on track and keep all the conception together. But then at the same
[17:52]time, you got a surrender to the moment, the way that an actor, you know, as great as Graham does,
[18:01]you know, you understand, you want to surprise yourself, you want to leave room open for things
[18:05]to come alive. And it's the same thing with being behind the camera. You know, movies that don't
[18:11]come out frozen and they're a little, they're pretty sad, I think. And you can always tell.
[18:18]And that's a major difference. And no, I don't really write criticism anymore. I'm going to do,
[18:26]I've done some interviews with friends here and there when somebody asked me,
[18:30]when Jean-Luc Godard died, I did a thing about him for sit and sound, but that's about it.
[18:37]And without spoiling it, Willem reads a really fantastic poem in the film
[18:45]that you wrote. I did. I did. So tell me how much in this film, late fame, how much did you draw?
[18:54]Because I know you wrote with Sammy here and there. You had a lot to do with the writing,
[18:59]as well as Sammy. How much did you draw from your own experience living in New York City around that
[19:05]same time that Ed Sacksberger would have, would have arrived as well?
[19:10]I get first of all, I just want to put a fine point on this whole New Jersey, New York thing,
[19:17]you know, because yeah, the power lens. No, I got to talk about the power lens. No, you know,
[19:22]there is a good tax situation in New Jersey. It's better than New York, but the thing is that it's
[19:27]like so that meant that, you know, whenever in the film were indoors were in New Jersey, whenever
[19:33]were outdoors were in Manhattan and with two very small moments other, you know, to the contrary.
[19:41]And I was really into that. I really liked that. That was a good, you know, I really liked,
[19:47]I like it when it was a good exercise. It's a good way of thinking, you know, there's a moment
[19:51]when somebody was looking out the window and he's in New Jersey and his island is right.
[19:56]Where is New York? Yeah, and then it was like seamless. Yeah.
[20:00]Because, you know, we work with a great DP Wyatt Garfield.
[20:04]He's just great.
[20:06]He shot both of my, you know, Diane and late family.
[20:09]And also, you know, it's something that Marty Scrissey
[20:14]said he did in Mean Streets.
[20:17]Every time you're inside, you're in Los Angeles.
[20:19]Every time you're outside, you're in New York.
[20:21]Was that true?
[20:22]Yeah.
[20:23]It wasn't true.
[20:24]It was just made it up.
[20:25]No, I just made it up.
[20:27]You know, in the Odyssey, every time they're inside.
[20:30]No, you know, I don't know where they are.
[20:34]Actually, because I haven't seen it.
[20:37]I'm working my way up towards it, but I haven't seen it yet.
[20:40]No, the Odyssey.
[20:42]Yeah, I know.
[20:43]Yeah.
[20:44]Yeah, there's a Michael Powell film where they do that too.
[20:46]I know where I'm going.
[20:48]And you never know it, you know, but I don't know.
[20:53]And I think that.
[20:57]Yeah, I don't know.
[20:58]I mean, John, from your own experiences.
[21:00]Yeah.
[21:01]My own experience is very much a part of the movie and well,
[21:04]and zone experience is very much a part of the movie.
[21:06]Coming to New York in the late 70s, early 80s.
[21:10]We both arrived at roughly the same moment.
[21:13]And it's, you know, you haven't seen the film.
[21:16]So it's like, I don't want to talk too much about that,
[21:19]but to just say that it's three different stories converging.
[21:24]Let's say that there's the guys, the enthusiasm society,
[21:27]who are these guys with a kind of a ridiculousness about them,
[21:31]or group that's not really a group, but they kind of are,
[21:34]but they kind of aren't, but it's the idea of a group
[21:38]and they're all guys of means with time on their hands.
[21:41]And then the character played by Greta.
[21:44]Gloria is more of someone who's come to New York a little bit late.
[21:48]To be the kind of actress that she wants
[21:53]to be the kind of performer she wants to be,
[21:56]and who's a pretty desperate.
[21:58]I would say the saddest of all the characters.
[22:01]And then in Willem's case,
[22:03]someone who actually came to New York
[22:05]was part of the scene down in Soho.
[22:08]And let's say downtown New York just to make it broader,
[22:13]but there's excellent videos of that if you're curious
[22:16]on YouTube of a young Willem before.
[22:18]Yeah.
[22:19]Oh, yeah.
[22:20]The Walgrow or what was it?
[22:21]The Worcester group.
[22:22]The Worcester group.
[22:23]The Worcester group.
[22:24]So you were actually shooting on Worcester Street.
[22:26]Yeah.
[22:27]Yeah.
[22:28]Yeah.
[22:29]Yeah.
[22:30]So it's layers of the past, but it's in the present.
[22:33]But when you're walking through Soho,
[22:35]you really feel the ghost of the past,
[22:37]layered over the present.
[22:38]It's quite a thing.
[22:39]But now Soho is home to like, you know,
[22:43]product.
[22:45]Yeah.
[22:46]That's right.
[22:47]Cupcakes.
[22:48]Yeah.
[22:49]$20 a piece.
[22:51]Right.
[22:52]And Rolex.
[22:53]Yeah.
[22:54]Yeah.
[22:55]Yeah.
[22:56]We got a little Rolex on film there.
[22:58]It is.
[22:59]Yeah.
[23:00]You see Rolex.
[23:01]Yeah.
[23:02]Yeah.
[23:03]Can I set it on the?
[23:04]Yeah.
[23:05]Well.
[23:06]I don't know.
[23:07]She's winning.
[23:10]Now nervous.
[23:12]I, I, I, you taught me out too much to see the point of the three people I watched it again
[23:18]today and I feel like it's three groups of people but in reality it's like 10 or 12 people that
[23:23]are all coming from different walks of life and I feel like they're all after the same thing.
[23:27]Yeah. They're all trying to find some sense of sincerity and like an artistic point of view and a
[23:32]voice that will and maybe was a little bit tapped into in the in the 70s when he or Ed was when
[23:37]he was writing and Gloria has this idealistic version what it could be and these kids
[23:42]want to be artists but they're glued to their freaking phones and it's amazing to watch a group
[23:46]of adults in 2026 try desperately to to discover some common humanity and I feel like there's
[23:55]pockets of it in the film that are so beautiful and so vibrant and then but then you lose it again
[24:00]and like I think that we all kind of relate to that. I think that's quite well I just watched it
[24:05]today. No it's you know yeah really yeah it's perfect. I think it's sort of fucking incredible
[24:10]movie man. Great job. Wonderful film. It's a marvelous film. It's a marvelous film. Moving
[24:25]picture. I mean the other thing I want to say about the poetry is that yes I did write this poem
[24:31]but I don't want to talk I mean you know we just we're figuring out how what the poem would be,
[24:37]how it would work. We were going to use a pre-existing poem by Rips. What was an important part of the film?
[24:42]Yes yeah and it's it's my friend Peter Gazie to whom the film is dedicated was going to write
[24:50]something then he was like why don't you use something a road already but it couldn't we needed
[24:54]something that was specific to the character and that worked as cinema. So
[25:00]I just got to work and I don't know, you know, I, I, I, Willem was extremely happy with it.
[25:04]I liked the way.
[25:05]But how long did it take you to write that one?
[25:07]It took, well, to write it, I had the idea in my head for repetition for that kind of
[25:12]form for a while, because it had to have a kind of a incantation to it, you know.
[25:18]But it was also important to me to get real poetry into the movie, to not just have sort
[25:23]of like a fake quote-unquote poetic idea.
[25:28]And Sammy said, you know, I, I, poetry is not, I, my specialty, so I don't really know.
[25:35]And, you know, I, my friend Pete and I, you know, I gave him cinema, let's say he gave
[25:41]me poetry, so we both were oriented around it, and there's a lot of voices of real poets
[25:47]in the film.
[25:48]Carlos Williams, Ezra Pound, LaRien Nita Kerr, James Skyler, HD, just so that you could
[25:55]hear poets speaking in poet, their own poetic language.
[26:01]But that was very important to me to, to become part of the movie, but not overwhelming.
[26:07]You know, well, you guys, the film is so beautiful.
[26:10]It's so incredible.
[26:11]I'm so grateful to be a little bit of part of it with you guys, and I couldn't be
[26:16]a prouder of, of you guys and the rest of the team, the actors, the crew.
[26:21]Everybody involved.
[26:22]It was really a beautiful experience.
[26:24]It was, coming to work every day was a really fun, beautiful, calm experience.
[26:29]And I, and just to, you know, tap, pat you on the back, you know, you're, you're driving
[26:34]the ship, you're the captain, is the director.
[26:36]You had a really beautiful set.
[26:38]It was really calm, friendly.
[26:41]Everybody got along, everybody became friends.
[26:44]And it was, it was a really great experience.
[26:46]And, and I think all that love really shines through when you, when you see the movie.
[26:50]So great job.
[26:51]Yeah.
[26:52]But you guys were a big part of, I mean, you know, it was like you were great presences
[26:55]on the set.
[26:56]You were nothing but helpful all the way along.
[26:59]Thank you.
[27:00]Well, thank you.
[27:01]Thank you.
[27:02]Yeah.
[27:03]We're, we're trying.
[27:04]Yes.
[27:05]Great fan.
[27:06]So, uh, without further ado, we'll open it up for a couple of questions, no comment.
[27:14]But questions all day, who's, who's, who's got a question in the back?
[27:21]Although in the back.
[27:24]Yeah, you don't have the oversight from, um, Junior executives who feel like,
[27:53]they need to know, you know, you know what I'm saying?
[27:57]I don't know.
[27:58]I mean, we're, we're in L.A. No.
[28:00]I was supposed to be like, yeah.
[28:02]Yeah.
[28:03]No, no, no, no.
[28:06]I think that there's a lot of, in my experience, there are a lot of people who were involved
[28:12]in things who are people of goodwill, but they're, their, their job is, um, I'm
[28:22]talking about a higher, at higher budgets to sort of like be supervisory in a weird way.
[28:29]And I'm not sure how much it contributes, you know, you need people who are really going
[28:34]to be sympathetic to the spirit of the enterprise and, um, sometimes they're not, uh,
[28:45]and that's too bad.
[28:46]That's a shame.
[28:47]That's at the, the higher end of things.
[28:49]I think that like, as far as, so working independently, yes, there's definitely, um, on
[28:58]the one hand, the time frame is more, is tighter, but I like tight time frames because
[29:04]I think that, you know, one car wise is a great filmmaker and everything, but I cannot
[29:09]imagine taking two years to make a movie.
[29:11]It just doesn't, I don't, I, it doesn't compute in my brain, you know, um, I can imagine
[29:18]it, you know, I can imagine a cure across Iowa taking a long time to make a movie, but
[29:22]it's a different matter because, you know, I just think that, um, giving a project
[29:28]what it needs is really important.
[29:31]And so on the way here, Graham and I were talking about a movie, I won't say which one
[29:37]that was made recently that just didn't have enough days and you can feel it when you're
[29:43]watching the movie.
[29:44]And it could have been a better movie, but it just doesn't, it affects the acting and it
[29:48]affects the story.
[29:49]I've done those movies that have too many days, like one car wise movies, I mean, you know,
[29:54]in the mood for love was like a two year shoot, you know, I mean, it was like, you can
[29:58]feel that too.
[29:59]Yeah.
[30:00]and see it's having constraints to get something done.
[30:03]I think finding that pocket of urgency.
[30:06]Yeah, I think that that's true.
[30:07]I think it's it's so it's like I think of a movie needs what it needs.
[30:13]You know, when you're clear about it, then, you know, it's great,
[30:17]but I think that when there's a little bit of ambiguity about it and it's sort of like,
[30:22]you know, I need 30 million. Great. We're going to give you 21. You know, that's a common
[30:26]story with a lot of people too. In my defense, I only asked for 20 million.
[30:29]Yeah, I know. I know. No, I know. And most of the budget went to Greenhouse.
[30:34]Yeah, I do as well, because we had to get grand 20 million.
[30:36]Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got a big back end.
[30:39]Let's go see it. Yeah. A lot. Yeah.
[30:44]Sarah in the back. One of the stories you shared about Lilm,
[30:49]I think he mentioned he was not feeling well or he was Bill one day.
[30:53]Just wondering if that kind of you can share an expand on that about, you know,
[30:57]his collaborative effort with independent filmmaking for everyone. It's kind of,
[31:01]you're all in the same boat. Sometimes limitations and restrictions can be a benefit.
[31:07]So I want to be there. Yeah, they are because you have to go forward. You can't stop,
[31:13]you know, I mean, and that's I think for like a good week during filming two weeks,
[31:19]two weeks, will um, everybody always asked me, how is it to work with Willam? Willam is such a pro.
[31:25]He was sick, really sick for like two weeks. And he never missed a scene. He was literally like,
[31:32]get me a cot, a sleeping bag, something. And I will just lay down here. And then when you say,
[31:37]it's time for me to go, I'll get up and I'll go and I'll do the scene. And he absolutely goes out
[31:42]and crushes it. And we were never one minute off schedule. Yeah. Yeah, he's sort of like,
[31:48]you know, he's against the whole like, you know, shooting in New Jersey and New York and we were sick
[31:53]you know, because he's like, no, you don't want to say that, you know, it ruins the magic.
[31:59]But we were both sick. I got him sick. I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I had to say
[32:11]we were there working at his apartment and you know, it's just one of those things. And it was
[32:17]just this kind of thing. It was like zero. Oh my god, it was freezing. Oh my god. Man,
[32:23]it was a cold. And he had like, it was like flute. A or something. No, we had we had this,
[32:27]like neuro something really bad. I don't know about neuro. It was gross. Yeah.
[32:32]No, one day, you remember. Well, there's a thing we can't talk about.
[32:38]No, but it was, it was, um, yeah, it was, it was, you know, uh, not fun to be sick. But then on the
[32:45]the other hand, it didn't matter. I don't know. It was a great, uh, equalizer too, because the
[32:51]first scene that all the boys shot, we were like down and holding all we were like, we're gonna be
[32:54]willing to fall. And we're gonna go there and I have to say lines and he's gonna say lines. And
[32:57]what if I don't say my lines? And he like, God, then he was like, fucking up. Like, he was like,
[33:01]he was like, he was like, I feel like shit. I mean, I was, I mean, I gotta go like,
[33:05]it's gonna be an insurance day. Yeah. But he was there and he was giving it his all and he was like,
[33:09]just kind of funneling through the thing. And part of me feels like in the back of his mind,
[33:12]he knew what he was doing. Yeah. Some extent. Yeah. Because we all just kind of like our shoulders
[33:16]yeah, draw us a little bit. Okay. We're all in this together. Yeah. That's right. And you would
[33:20]never know it. No. It just doesn't even, you know, it's not even, slightly an issue. That's great.
[33:26]But yeah. Um, I've heard of the exact question that Kyle follows, but I was fortunate enough to see
[33:33]some of our, those marbles like kind of stuff. Um, and I just, I had no idea it was adapted for a
[33:39]fucking 19th century. So I'm just curious. I could see, you know, the parallels of
[33:46]on Instagram and storyline, particularly with ads, you know, younger anti group, older
[33:50]anti group. But how's it processed with Sandy and kind of modernizing these characters? Because
[33:56]I feel like it's so like relative to the zeitgeist and like this, you know, modern day.
[34:04]I mean, she really, you know, took it there. The first draft of the script was, you know, the most
[34:09]important thing about writing people often think that it's a dialogue, but it isn't, it's more
[34:17]the structure. Yeah. And the structure was solid as a rock. There's something to really build on
[34:22]her dialogue is great. I mean, you know, it's just like, um, you know, uh, the character of Myers,
[34:32]the way that he talks about his apartment. You know, we don't want to spoil it for people
[34:36]haven't seen the movie, but it's a beautiful delivery of a great line. And it's the kind of thing
[34:41]that, you know, I've heard people say and Sammy has to. But, but it's more, um, in the original
[34:49]draft of the script, the reference point for the characters past was earlier. It was like the 60s.
[34:57]And then it was like, hmm, that means
[35:00]Somebody's working at the post office in the 85 years old.
[35:02]I don't know.
[35:03]I mean, it's like I'm not sure.
[35:05]And then when Willam got involved,
[35:08]I mean, who wants to work at the post office passed?
[35:12]I don't know.
[35:12]Anyway, the post offices that I've been in recently,
[35:15]I wouldn't want to.
[35:16]So when Willam got involved, obviously,
[35:19]that changed for practical reasons as well.
[35:23]And it happened to be the moment when he and I both
[35:25]came to New York that we were recituating it.
[35:29]And it also meant that walking through the West Village
[35:32]turned into walking through Soho.
[35:35]And but I think also that, along the way,
[35:40]with the group, with the enthusiasm society,
[35:46]they are.
[35:47]There is a ridiculousness about them.
[35:49]But then at the same time, there's
[35:50]kind of like this grandeur about the dream that they have.
[35:54]It's there's something that very, I felt, was very moving.
[35:58]I feel like the novella could have been made into a completely
[36:04]different kind of movie.
[36:06]And it could have been made into that movie by Billy Wilder,
[36:09]who was also from Vienna.
[36:11]And it was great.
[36:12]And it would have been hilarious.
[36:13]But it's just not that satire.
[36:16]And it's not my thing.
[36:18]I wanted to look at these guys and see them
[36:21]in a modern perspective and to push
[36:23]pull of the phones, the push pull of self-promotion.
[36:30]I don't want to talk too much about it for people I haven't seen it.
[36:32]But I just felt like that was something
[36:36]that we weren't deeper further and further with and exploring.
[36:40]And then in the shoot, I think, even further.
[36:43]I think we have done for one more question.
[36:46]There's a lady right there.
[36:49]There's a lady right there.
[36:50]Yeah, yeah.
[36:50]You're up.
[36:51]It's kind of a weird question.
[36:52]I think it might not be nothing.
[36:53]I hope it's not for my mind, but it's such a big deal.
[36:57]It might be a big deal.
[36:58]But if I, beyond our generation,
[37:01]they're talked about a certain way for other generations.
[37:05]I acknowledge the various effects of some practical energy
[37:11]of the way that you two are keeping you getting on.
[37:14]You seem like someone older, beyond your year.
[37:18]Like, in the way that you were reflecting it,
[37:21]it's like having a visa.
[37:23]But I was curious about it.
[37:25]I was just wondering where you both were created,
[37:28]like where you both were, like more than the same.
[37:31]You have a very interesting idea to speak in your voice.
[37:33]It's so hard, I don't know.
[37:35]I know.
[37:36]I think we have a different generation
[37:38]than that.
[37:39]It's such a, like, talk about the office.
[37:41]Yeah.
[37:42]We're going to do it and keep, you know,
[37:44]I think we have a similar neurosis.
[37:51]Would you, would you co-sign that?
[37:54]Yeah.
[37:55]Similar itch or curiosity about the human experience.
[37:58]I wouldn't call that neurosis.
[37:59]Yeah, I don't, maybe I miss you as that word, yeah.
[38:02]But he has a bit of vocabulary.
[38:04]But I think that we, you can tell right away,
[38:08]you can smell it on somebody and will him's very similar.
[38:11]Yeah.
[38:12]Do you have the same questions about all this?
[38:14]Yeah.
[38:15]And although our, our methods of exploring them are different
[38:18]because we came up in different places, different times,
[38:20]we have the same goal.
[38:22]Yeah.
[38:23]So it's like, it's like puzzle pieces.
[38:24]But it's very rare.
[38:25]It's very rare.
[38:26]I feel very lucky.
[38:27]So do I, man, I mean, boy.
[38:30]But I mean, can I just say that this thing about generations?
[38:37]I don't, it's odd to be living through a moment
[38:40]that is so obsessively, compulsively focused on itself.
[38:48]And it's focused on itself through the medium of,
[38:52]as we all know, the one that we call social that isn't.
[38:56]And it's led to this kind of like, every day,
[39:02]it's just like a flood of assertions coming at us.
[39:06]And it's often couched in this thing about like,
[39:11]Gen Z, Gen A, Gen Alpha, and you're just sort of like a baby
[39:17]boom, you're just like, it's meaningless, I think.
[39:21]I think that Christopher Lash a long time ago pointed out
[39:24]that the whole generation thing is just sort of like
[39:27]a recent development, the idea of like splitting people off
[39:31]and describing them as, it's as if the world is supposed
[39:34]to change every seven years or something like that.
[39:37]And I mean, you know, Graham and I, you know,
[39:42]in process of this became, you know, close collaborators
[39:45]and friends.
[39:45]I mean, you know, we speak the same language.
[39:48]And I mean, you know, it's a, I'm, you know,
[39:50]a couple years older than him, you know what I mean?
[39:54]But you know, it doesn't, it doesn't really matter.
[39:58]You know, I just think that it's something
[40:00]that's not real, and then it's constantly
[40:06]shoved down everybody's throat all the time.
[40:09]And we don't.
[40:11]I was like in New York City.
[40:13]What, sorry?
[40:14]We both, I both in New York City.
[40:16]He would raise to New Hampshire.
[40:16]I'm not talking about New Hampshire.
[40:18]And I was raised in the Berkshires.
[40:20]So the shirt is, yeah, exactly.
[40:24]Yeah, exactly.
[40:25]Yeah, yeah, good point.
[40:27]No, that's true.
[40:29]Yeah, that's what, yeah.
[40:31]Something in the water that flows down from the mountains.
[40:33]Yeah.
[40:36]All right, all right, guys.
[40:38]All right, guys.
[40:39]All right, guys, all right.
[40:41]All right, guys, guys, guys.
[40:42]Who is with that?
[40:44]And don't forget to post everything Kent just
[40:47]said on your Instagrams.
[40:49]Yeah.
[40:51]And go see the film.
[40:52]Oh.
[40:53]Thanks, man.
[40:54]Dad, that's great.
[40:57]Oh, look at that.
[40:59]I talked to you.
[40:59]That's it.
[41:00]I'm dressed up.
[41:01]Let me get a picture.