Chef Alon Shaya on the Power of Meals and Memories
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked. I'm Zibi Owens. I've interviewed more than 2,000
[0:06]authors on this show and learned endless amounts about storytelling,
[0:10]reinvention, and life itself because when you talk about books, you're really
[0:14]talking about life. So get ready to hear from today's best authors,
[0:18]the best-selling, and the not yet discovered. Come find your next great
[0:22]read, and the story behind it. Enjoy.
[0:27]Elone Shaya is the author of Memories of a Good Meal,
[0:31]Recipes of Resilience, Inspired by Stories of World War II Survival,
[0:36]co-written with June Hirsch. Elone is the multiple James Beard award-winning
[0:41]chef and co-founder of Pomegranate Hospitality. He was born in Israel,
[0:45]raised in Philadelphia, and is now proud new or lenient. His food spans
[0:50]continents and cultures from his modern Israeli restaurants, Sabah, and
[0:54]Saffda to Saffda's table, a neighborhood Mediterranean all day cafe.
[0:58]His restaurants, Sabah and Saffda, have both been recognized by the esteemed
[1:03]Michelin Guide as some of the best restaurants in their respective cities.
[1:06]In 2021, Elone spearheaded the Rescued Recipes Initiative with the United States
[1:12]Holocaust Memorial Museum based on his collaboration and deep friendship
[1:16]with the Holocaust survivor Stephen Fenves. To date, Rescued Recipes has raised over
[1:21]a million dollars. A passionate philanthropist, he also co-founded the Shaya Barnett
[1:25]Foundation with his mentor and high school home economic teacher Donna Barnett
[1:30]to provide culinary education and resources to high school students.
[1:33]Elone is also the author of Shaya and Odyssey of Food, my journey back to Israel,
[1:38]a memoir-style cookbook, exploring his personal journey of survival and culinary discovery.
[1:44]He has been recognized by Southern Living as one of the 50 people who are changing the South,
[1:49]and by the forward as one of the 50 most influential Jews in America. He lives in New Orleans
[1:54]with his family. Welcome Elone. Thank you so much for coming on totally books to talk about
[1:59]your book Memories of a Good Meal, Recipes of Resilience Inspired by Stories of World War Two
[2:05]Survival. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Appreciate that.
[2:10]So you are James Beard, award-winning chef of Saffda, other restaurants. You've got a whole
[2:16]hospitality thing going on. You're totally acclaimed expert in your field. And yet now,
[2:22]you're like, let me just go into the publishing world and write basically these amazing stories,
[2:29]like the historical treasure trove of yes, recipes, but also human interest stories and
[2:35]everything. It's like, we're not doing enough already. I know. I keep adding things to my plate,
[2:40]but you know, this is something that I've been just so passionate about for such a long time,
[2:46]and it really stemmed from my work with rescue recipes in which I was in partnership with the
[2:53]United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and a friend who, a late friend named Stephen Fendes,
[3:01]who, his story is one of the chapters in this book. But, you know, together we shared his
[3:09]family story, and it was really just one of the most rewarding and special things I feel like
[3:15]I've ever done in my life. The friendship that we built, the people that we were able to engage
[3:22]with this history. And so I felt like I needed to do more. And, you know, there's,
[3:29]that was one story and there's millions of them. And in this book, there's 10. And it's still
[3:36]not even the tip of the iceberg, but I feel like it's such a great way to connect people who
[3:44]care about history are interested in the lessons that have been learned or should have been
[3:49]learned during World War II and the Holocaust, and also like food or care about food or understand
[3:57]the importance of what food can do and the conversation that it can start. And I was just so
[4:05]fortunate to work with a wonderful woman named June Hirsch who's my co-author in this book and
[4:11]someone that brought so much to the plate for creating this really special piece of work that
[4:17]we did together. And we're so excited. We're excited for people to see it and to read these stories.
[4:23]Hopefully, cook some of the recipes and gather around the table and through the recipes,
[4:30]through the meals, be able to dig into something that is very deep and important. And sometimes
[4:38]unfortunately relevant still today over 80 years after the war. Amazing. And actually, I've interviewed
[4:46]June Hirsch for the show as well. She's wonderful. Yeah. I, when I started reading Stephen's story,
[4:53]I just could not put this book down and then found myself flying through all the other stories as
[4:57]well, because you take us.
[5:00]into so many different pieces of the puzzle of life back then,
[5:03]so to speak.
[5:04]And Stephen's story in particular,
[5:06]with the recipes being found,
[5:08]with the mother's artwork even, still being saved,
[5:11]and having his family, the nanny, the chef,
[5:16]who worked with the family,
[5:17]be able to save all that and reconnect.
[5:20]I mean, it was like, it's hard to believe it even happened.
[5:23]It's amazing.
[5:24]And I think, you know,
[5:26]there are millions of miracles that happened
[5:29]through these awful, awful experiences
[5:33]that so many survivors had to go through.
[5:36]And what we really wanted this book to represent
[5:39]was not only like the European Jewish story of the war,
[5:43]but the war as a whole.
[5:45]And we were fortunate enough to meet with John Kinsell
[5:49]23 days before he passed away.
[5:51]He was 106 years old,
[5:54]when we drove out into the middle of the desert
[5:56]in the Navajo nation,
[5:59]and coaked over an open fire for him
[6:03]and heard his story of being a co-talker
[6:06]and being able to help create this unbreakable code
[6:11]that helped the allies win in the Pacific Theater.
[6:15]But then also to hear about how food played a role
[6:20]in his experience,
[6:21]and how he would teach members of his company
[6:26]other soldiers, how to capture and cook
[6:30]these big dangerous coconut crabs
[6:32]that were lacerating soldiers while they were sleeping
[6:35]in these foxholes and his kind of being in tune
[6:39]with nature and understanding more
[6:43]than just what was in front of him
[6:45]and how he taught that to the people around him.
[6:48]And so these stories, you know,
[6:50]I think that they touch on so many aspects
[6:53]of human emotions, of survival,
[6:56]but every single one of them,
[6:58]food is really kind of the thread
[7:01]through how these stories have come about.
[7:05]And that's really what I hope that readers can see
[7:08]is that this history,
[7:10]and especially in a day like today
[7:12]where we're getting news in such convoluted
[7:17]and dangerous ways.
[7:19]These algorithms, you click on one thing
[7:22]and the next thing you know,
[7:24]that's the only thing that is coming through on your phone,
[7:27]you know, and it's only gonna keep getting worse, you know?
[7:30]And so the more that we can share lessons
[7:34]and the more that we can share people's actual stories,
[7:38]I think the more that we can understand history better
[7:40]and we can teach history better.
[7:43]And with cooking and food,
[7:46]it's such a way to remember when you think back
[7:50]on some of your most impactful memories in your life.
[7:54]So many of them are centered around the dining room table,
[7:58]a meal that you shared with somebody,
[8:01]because as you're eating,
[8:02]you're experiencing whatever it is
[8:05]that you're learning in your entire body,
[8:08]your smells, your tastes,
[8:10]the way that you are really absorbing this into your soul,
[8:16]these lessons must be absorbed,
[8:18]and they must be shared.
[8:19]And I say all the time,
[8:21]how do you approach a 15-year-old
[8:25]and talk to them about the atrocities that Hitler committed?
[8:30]And it's such a hard, complex, large story history
[8:37]to explain.
[8:39]But if you have a big chocolate cake on the table
[8:41]and you say, hey, I wanna tell you about this recipe
[8:46]and where it came from,
[8:47]how it was saved, the story behind it,
[8:50]the people behind it, what it meant to this family
[8:53]and how, through this piece of history,
[8:57]this chocolate cake is still relevant today for us
[8:59]to be able to not only eat it and enjoy it,
[9:03]but also understand a piece of the past.
[9:06]And that is a way to get someone's attention
[9:09]in a very impactful way.
[9:11]This is a good history teaching tip
[9:13]for my kids, so thank you.
[9:16]They would never turn down a chocolate cake
[9:19]by way of history.
[9:20]That's right, that's right.
[9:22]I was really struck by the story of the Japanese internment
[9:26]and how Japanese culture itself,
[9:29]which has so many traditions and ways of eating
[9:33]and they are very concerned with the order,
[9:37]like all of that was just thrown out the door,
[9:40]they were thrown into this camp,
[9:42]essentially, in the United States.
[9:44]I had heard about this vaguely
[9:47]and through other fiction, honestly,
[9:49]but this is the deepest depiction of this time
[9:51]that I've read, especially with all the color
[9:54]of the meals that they were eating
[9:55]and the pictures and everything.
[9:57]Tell me a little more about that
[9:58]and how you even stumbled upon it.
[10:00]Yes. So after Pearl Harbor, the American government essentially seized Japanese property and did not
[10:11]much different than what was happening in Europe at the time where people's livelihoods and
[10:17]their freedoms were taken and Japanese American citizens were put into concentration camps
[10:26]right here in America throughout the West. And the story, I think the big lesson in the story was
[10:34]really about how the Japanese family dynamic of eating together and the importance of this kind of
[10:43]hierarchy and the family of how sitting down to a meal and eating together really keeps the balance
[10:52]in Japanese culture between generations. And as the Japanese citizens were being taken and put into
[11:01]these camps, all of a sudden they're eating in mess halls with thousands of other people. And they're
[11:09]being fed food that is a lot of it was just processed canned foods like spam and hot dogs,
[11:18]things like ketchup and kind of just these bastardized versions of food that the government thought
[11:27]they would be able to enjoy. And the breakdown of the family dynamic in these mess halls was
[11:35]so interesting because it really created disrespect between the different generations and
[11:43]the family. The kids were off running around with other kids, the adults were sitting together and
[11:49]eating together. And there was no more of this moment where the families came together in a way
[11:57]around a meal. And so we kind of tried to get into that and talk about how important meals are
[12:04]and how important they are towards kind of keeping a balance within a family. And it was such a
[12:12]fascinating history that a lot of people really don't know. And you think about Japanese culture
[12:19]in America today. And it's horrific to think about just not that long ago what they had to go through.
[12:28]And we were lucky enough to go and visit Manzanar, the area in California, North of LA, where
[12:36]the government set up these concentration camps. And we went there with Bruce Embry,
[12:42]who is the son of Su Kunitomi. And she was really the voice, one of the activists that help
[12:50]make sure people don't forget about Manzanar. And she was one of the leading voices.
[12:55]You know, she was there as a child and interned with her family. Her freedom was taken away.
[13:02]And when she was then released, she went on to become a journalist. And she spoke out on behalf
[13:10]what the Japanese communities went through. And it helped create a national historic site that
[13:18]people can go and visit today. But there was a point in which it was erased off of the earth.
[13:23]You know, the government didn't want people to remember it. They didn't want people to tie that
[13:29]to American history. So going there with Su Kun, Bruce was such a powerful experience. And then
[13:36]we went and cooked this big meal for him and his family. And also people within their family,
[13:43]some of them born at the camp as babies to recreate some of the food in a way that was very
[13:51]respectful in a way that was very reminiscent of the times that they were going through.
[13:58]And start conversation and talk about it and not forget it and be able to learn and then share.
[14:07]And I think that that, for me, was just really one of the more important experiences through
[14:13]this book process. It's amazing. Well, the stories that you collected are so powerful and memorable
[14:20]and like vividly illustrated with the photos and documentation and all sorts of ways for all of us
[14:28]to feel like the sense of immediacy when we're relating to them and feel like it's a story of
[14:34]something happening right now and that how urgent it is, which is so important. For two seconds,
[14:39]just on your being this amazing chef and restaurant owner and everything like that, I'm just wondering
[14:44]how you knew. And when you knew that this was going to be your life's work, like was it when
[14:49]you were a little kid? Because I have four kids and one of them like loves to, you know, marinate
[14:54]steak and do all this stuff. And I'm like, maybe him, maybe he's going to be the one.
[15:00]Don't be cooking me dinner, you know, I was an immigrant child.
[15:07]I was four years old when my family immigrated from Israel to America.
[15:12]And by the time I was five, my parents had split up and my mom was raising my sister
[15:18]and I on her own.
[15:21]My Saba and Safda, my grandparents, would come and visit from Israel.
[15:26]And when they would come, my Safda, which means grandmother in Hebrew, and what would
[15:32]I call my grandmother.
[15:33]I called her Safda, her real name is Matilda.
[15:37]She would cook for me.
[15:39]And as a five-year-old, six-year-old who felt like a fish out of water, didn't speak English,
[15:46]was in a brand new country.
[15:48]Parents just split up.
[15:50]Our family going through a really hard time.
[15:53]There was this day, I remember.
[15:56]I opened the front door to my house as I was coming home from school.
[16:00]And my Safda was in the kitchen roasting peppers and eggplants over the fire on the
[16:06]gas stove to make a Bulgarian dish called lutenica.
[16:10]And that smell at that very young age, it just hit me because it wasn't just the smell
[16:17]of lunch.
[16:19]It was the smell of identity.
[16:22]It was the smell that made me feel like everything was going to be okay, even for the
[16:29]next 24 hours, that I was going to get a sense of familiarity that I was yearning for
[16:37]at that age.
[16:39]And I also knew that they were going to have chocolates in their suitcase for me.
[16:43]And I knew that they were going to take us out for Chinese food and for ice cream.
[16:48]And so it wasn't the food in particular, but it was this moment where the smell of
[16:54]her cooking just made me feel safe and made me feel whole.
[17:03]And I've carried that with me my entire life.
[17:06]In my first book, Shaya, I talk about that story.
[17:10]And it's the first recipe in the book.
[17:13]It's a recipe that we serve at all of our restaurants now.
[17:17]And I still, every day when I'm at the restaurant and I smell those peppers and eggplants,
[17:22]cooking over the fire, I think of my softa and it reminds me of why I do what I do.
[17:28]Because I learned at a young age the power that food truly holds so much more than just
[17:34]fuel.
[17:35]It can become a part of who you are.
[17:39]And my entire career, you know, I didn't know at five, six years old I was going to become
[17:44]a chef.
[17:45]And I didn't fall in love with food very much so at that age.
[17:49]And then, you know, it was really my home economics teacher in high school, Donna Barnett,
[17:54]who said to me, you know, you don't have to become a high school dropout and just deliver
[18:01]pizzas for the rest of your life.
[18:03]You have something more to offer society.
[18:06]And I was getting in a lot of trouble, you know, I didn't have a lot of guidance.
[18:12]I was, I was definitely the kid that all of my friends parents didn't want them hanging
[18:18]out with.
[18:19]And so Donna single handedly helped me see a path forward in life and said, you can become
[18:26]a chef.
[18:27]She got me my first job at a restaurant.
[18:30]She drove me to my first interview.
[18:32]She bought me a chef coat to put on.
[18:35]And her and I now have a foundation together called the shy of Barnett Foundation.
[18:40]And I'm so fortunate and lucky enough to be able to call her regularly and see her many
[18:47]times a year and together we run this foundation and hopes to make a difference in someone's
[18:54]life and the way that she made in my life.
[18:56]And it's absolutely beautiful.
[18:58]Wow.
[18:59]Well, you were doing just so much good in the world and it is refreshing and amazing.
[19:05]And my hat's off to you in so many ways.
[19:08]The book is just the icing on the cake or I should have had an analogy from an actual
[19:12]food item in the book, but you know, it's really, it's really, really special.
[19:17]And what's preserved in this book will be so important for so many families and for generations
[19:23]to come.
[19:24]So thank you so much for doing it.
[19:25]Thank you.
[19:26]Thank you.
[19:27]Zippy for having me on the show.
[19:28]It's my pleasure.
[19:29]Thank you so much.
[19:30]Great.
[19:31]Thank you.
[19:32]I'm honored.
[19:33]Let me know if I can ever do anything for you and enjoy your meal at Softa when you go.
[19:38]Thank you so much.
[19:39]Okay.
[19:40]Bye bye.
[19:41]Bye bye.
[19:42]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zippy, formerly momstone have time to read
[19:45]books.
[19:46]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens
[19:52]and spread the word.
[19:54]Thanks so much.
[19:55]Oh, and bye the books.