Jessica Radloff on Young Sheldon
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked.
[0:02]I'm Zibi Owens.
[0:04]I've interviewed more than 2,000 authors on this show
[0:07]and learned endless amounts about storytelling,
[0:10]reinvention, and life itself.
[0:11]Because when you talk about books,
[0:13]you're really talking about life.
[0:15]So get ready to hear from today's best authors,
[0:18]the best-selling and the not yet discovered.
[0:20]Come find your next great read and the story behind it.
[0:24]Enjoy.
[0:26]Jessica Radlof is the author of Young Sheldon,
[0:30]the juicier than Mima's brisket inside story of the hit comedy.
[0:34]I don't know about you, but I have watched so many episodes
[0:37]of Young Sheldon with my kids and am obsessed.
[0:40]So I loved this inside take on it.
[0:43]Jessica Radlof is a New York Times best-selling author
[0:45]and host of the official Big Bang Theory podcast on HBO Max.
[0:49]For nearly 15 years, Jessica spearheaded
[0:51]Glamor magazine's entertainment coverage in Los Angeles,
[0:54]which we discussed.
[0:56]She is a member of the Television Critics Association,
[0:59]the Critics Choice Association,
[1:01]and Screen Actors Guild,
[1:02]and an associate member of the Television Academy.
[1:05]Jessica is from St. Louis, Missouri,
[1:06]and you can follow her on Instagram at Jessica Radlof14.
[1:11]Enjoy.
[1:12]Welcome, Jessica.
[1:12]Thank you so much for coming on totally booked
[1:15]to talk about your book, all about Young Sheldon
[1:18]and so much more.
[1:20]Congratulations.
[1:21]Thank you so much, Zibi.
[1:23]It's so nice to be here.
[1:24]And I'm just so excited to be talking to you today.
[1:27]And I am a huge young Sheldon fan,
[1:30]washed with my kids, love so much,
[1:33]and I've interviewed Reagan Reverge before.
[1:37]Reward the out of board, sorry.
[1:39]No.
[1:40]The points of view that I gained reading your book
[1:44]and the million interviews you must have done to do this.
[1:47]Wow, I have a whole new one.
[1:49]Oh, the show, congrats.
[1:50]That's wild.
[1:52]Thank you.
[1:52]Yeah, you're not far off with the million interviews that I did.
[1:55]I think I did around 200 hours of interviews
[2:00]over the last year and a half.
[2:01]And I, you know, what's so funny,
[2:04]this book was not supposed to be as massive
[2:07]or as a deep dive as it ended up being.
[2:09]I'm like, it's Young Sheldon.
[2:10]Like, it'll be full of great, you know,
[2:12]exclusive behind-the-scenes photos.
[2:14]And, you know, it's definitely not going to be as big
[2:17]as the big bang theory book in terms of the size.
[2:20]And the jokes on me because when I got into it,
[2:24]there was so much more to uncover and to learn
[2:27]than I had any idea about.
[2:30]There was so much more that went into the show
[2:32]than the big bang theory.
[2:34]And then I was like, oh boy, like,
[2:35]when I turned this first draft into my editor,
[2:38]I was like, oh jeez, if she tells me to cut this in half,
[2:41]I don't know what I'm going to do
[2:42]because there was just so much material from everybody
[2:45]that I did not expect at all.
[2:49]So Young Sheldon is the prequel spin-off to the big bang
[2:53]theory, which by the way, I've never even watched.
[2:56]And I know it's like your favorite show game podcast.
[2:58]I'm like, I'm embarrassed you could say that to you.
[3:00]No, be no.
[3:02]But it is such a, it can be such a standalone entity
[3:05]and was filmed differently.
[3:06]Would you talk about in the book about the one camera
[3:08]treatment by John Favreau and how it's like,
[3:11]how they made it look different enough
[3:14]and yet carried through that Young Sheldon has become
[3:17]its own animal and also has a life far beyond
[3:21]when it was on TV and now it's on Netflix and everything else.
[3:25]Oh yeah, no, it's, you're not alone at all, by the way,
[3:27]because half, I would say half of the Young Sheldon audience
[3:30]never watched Big Bang.
[3:31]And that's why Jim Parsons talks about the fact
[3:33]that so many people know him is the narrator
[3:36]to Young Sheldon and not as the original Sheldon.
[3:39]And he jokes like people are going to watch Big Bang
[3:42]eventually and be like, what the hell is this show?
[3:46]Because it's so different.
[3:48]And so no, you're not alone at all.
[3:51]And yes, I host the official Big Bang Theory podcast,
[3:54]but it's not because, well, I don't know how to say this.
[3:59]Right, it's a wonderful show, but it's my job.
[4:04]So it's like I don't follow anyone
[4:06]for having not watched it or watched Young Sheldon first.
[4:09]And so you are totally fine with that.
[4:11]Well, how did you fall into the whole Sheldon world?
[4:15]Right, the whole Sheldon world.
[4:18]Yeah, it's still something that I am shocked by.
[4:21]And it's, you know, it's so funny.
[4:23]And you talk about this a lot with just a lot of the books
[4:26]that you feature and everything.
[4:27]You kind of never know where life is going to take you.
[4:30]We never know where life is going to take us.
[4:32]And for 15 years, I was a senior editor at Glamour.
[4:36]And we realized about four seasons
[4:40]into the Big Bang Theory that our readers
[4:43]were really obsessed with this show.
[4:45]And it's because once they added the female characters
[4:48]of Bernadette and Amy into the fold,
[4:52]this became the most popular show among women,
[4:54]the Big Bang Theory by the time that it went off the air.
[4:57]And our readers really responded to that.
[5:00]So I ended up covering the show because I had gotten to know the actors throughout the years a different award shows
[5:05]And then I became a fan of it
[5:07]So I didn't start off as a fan of the big bang theory right away
[5:10]I watched the first episode. I was like, okay, it's cute. And then I stopped
[5:13]So it really wasn't until it came about for work related reasons that I got back into it and I thought gosh
[5:20]The show is so smart, you know, it's such character driven humor got into it
[5:25]Never intended to write a book to have a podcast to then do another book on young shell and never in a million years
[5:31]You know, my now literary agent came up with the idea of a big bang theory oral history during the
[5:38]Very early months of the pandemic. I was like, what is this? No, I write a book
[5:43]Are you kidding me? No, and then I reached out to the creators and executive producers and they were like
[5:50]Well, why not yes, you you know us all you should do it
[5:54]That made me feel a little bit better because zippy
[5:56]I was scared to death the entire time like at what meet come on
[6:01]So that's how I got into it and it was just those relationships that I had built that lent itself to a book
[6:08]And then I was so thankful that the book went on to become such a success and hit the New York Times
[6:13]Bestseller list and then the podcast came about because of that book and then
[6:18]You know young Sheldon was not going to be my second book everybody was like well of course it was
[6:24]I was like no that really wasn't the plan and like you said when it went to Netflix and then also these tiktok shorts that people had started making
[6:32]That's when it entered a different
[6:35]You know realm then just being the number one show on
[6:39]Broadcast television and that's when I was like, okay, there's a different world and audience and yeah
[6:45]Then I went back to the producers and I was like well guys
[6:47]Do you want to do this again? You know what was involved in the first book?
[6:50]So please this is your this is your only chance to get out of it
[6:54]Like please, you know, what are you gonna say and they were like no
[6:56]Let's do it before we forget everything that happened and then that's how it came about
[7:01]So I really say it was by accident
[7:04]It was by chance and that's why you never know who you're gonna meet along the way
[7:09]What opportunities are gonna come up but it was never the plan and boy am I thankful that it was?
[7:15]Well, it sounded like from the interviews you did that for the actors
[7:19]This was also in some way
[7:22]Coincidental for them too. I mean Laurie met calf's daughter who became Mary
[7:27]Yes, like a five-year-old on the said with the producer with Chuck Laurie
[7:32]And he was wouldn't even couldn't even believe that she was old enough to play the character of the mother and yes
[7:37]Then thought it was like a great idea and there were all these coincidences that happened
[7:42]Along the way and it almost is like and everything is like
[7:46]Just one step away from being missed and yet it all coalesced
[7:50]Yes, so and that doesn't always happen
[7:52]But in a case like this it did and I was really grateful in the book
[7:55]You know the producers were so generous with giving me those
[8:00]TV artifacts like the initial text exchange between Chuck Laurie and Jim Parsons and the other
[8:07]producers about
[8:09]How they decided to go out to Zoe Perry who like you said is Laurie met calf's daughter or you know
[8:15]There's a scene in the book that they really wanted Jim Parsons to come back and play as Sheldon not as an narrator
[8:21]But to actually have him physically there in a scene not the finale
[8:26]But a different season and they gave me that scene that they had written for him and that's in the book
[8:31]So I was very grateful that they they opened up kind of their treasure trove of TV artifacts because I think that's the interesting stuff
[8:38]That makes you know just a wild
[8:42]Realization into all the things that had to line up to make the show a success and that Sheldon is actually based off of
[8:52]Jim Parsons real life nephew and then that kid Michael auditioned and could have had the part
[8:58]But actually didn't get hit the car. No, can you open?
[9:01]So Jim kept this from me because Jim Parsons wrote the forward for young Sheldon
[9:06]And of course the character of Sheldon was something that was created by Bill Prady and Chuck Laurie
[9:10]But the idea of a young Sheldon show
[9:13]Really came about because Jim Parsons has a nephew Michael who was nine years old
[9:19]Around the time that Jim and his husband Todd were coming up with this idea for young Sheldon and
[9:23]He kept looking at his nephew and like this kid is brilliant and
[9:27]He didn't necessarily think a show young Sheldon
[9:31]But he was thinking a show around a brilliant like kid of that age
[9:37]Who just happened to have a lot of similarities and then he brought the idea to Chuck
[9:42]Who then brought it immediately to Steve Milaro who was the showrunner on Big Bang
[9:46]they loved the idea and
[9:49]Jim held this great interesting nugget of info, which was that
[9:54]He actually had his nine-year-old nephew Michael audition. It was Chuck Laurie's idea
[10:00]have Michael auditioned. Michael auditioned. It could have been Jim Parsons nephew as
[10:04]young Sheldon instead of Ian Armitage. And now Jim Parsons nephew, Michael, who's interviewed
[10:09]in the book for the first time, he's actually an actor. He just graduated from NYU.
[10:14]And it's really such a full circle moment. But yeah, that shocked me. I didn't reveal
[10:20]that into the last minute. I was like, I'm sorry, what? You're nephew really did audition
[10:26]for young Sheldon. And he's like, oh yeah, he's like, and I was against it at first.
[10:30]But then, you know, he's like, then I came on board, but it didn't happen. So yeah, the
[10:36]way he's structured the book is quote, almost like out of interview magazine or something
[10:41]like that for anybody. Yes, members interview magazine. You know, it's like I do, right?
[10:46]Like this speaker with the call in. Yeah. You know, almost like a more like a script than
[10:50]a narrative like arc. I mean, narrative arc. But anyway, why did you do it that way?
[10:56]Well, technically that's what an oral history is. And when Big Bang was first presented
[10:59]to me by my literary agent is an oral history, I will be honest with you, Zibi. I was
[11:04]like, I don't know what an oral history is. I had to look that up to be like, what exactly
[11:09]is this? And it's like what you said where, you know, it's it's taking everybody's
[11:14]quotes and building upon each other to tell the narrative, to tell the story about how
[11:17]it came together. And an oral history is very interesting because everybody's memories
[11:23]are going to be slightly different. And they're going to have their own version just
[11:27]because everybody's experience is different with anything. So that's really the oral
[11:32]history format. And I was like, okay, I can do this. Now the thing that's interesting
[11:39]is that when the Big Bang theory book came out, there were some people that wrote in like
[11:42]Amazon reviews and are like, oh, she just copies and paste all of the interviews into
[11:48]the thing. And I'm like, oh, God, if they only knew it's like a game of Tetris at
[11:52]level 22, where you have to really figure out the puzzle pieces of what is going to build
[11:59]off of a quote, what won't repeat itself, what lends itself to the narrative and explains
[12:05]everything. And it's real challenge, but it's also really fun to put that together.
[12:10]And I do think, you know, I've seen books done where it's it's written through narrative
[12:16]and I'm so impressed by those books, but I do think there's something easier and more
[12:20]fun at times to read at least where it's built upon with the quotes because it is like
[12:26]sending in on an interview with everybody and letting them speak for themselves instead
[12:32]of having the author insert themselves too much into how it came together. I still am
[12:38]there is the narrator. So to speak where I'm introducing and I'm explaining, but I really
[12:42]like to have the actors, the writers, guest stars be the ones who drive the story because
[12:47]they were the ones that experienced it day in and day out.
[12:51]What do you think it was about young Sheldon that just hit, struck such a chord? I mean,
[12:59]I know you write in the book that it's it's about this feeling of not totally fitting
[13:04]in and just like feeling like an outsider in whatever way like Sheldon who is just off the
[13:09]charts brilliant with his, you know, football coach father who's like, couldn't, you know,
[13:15]what do you think? Because it unites so many different ages across so many different beliefs
[13:22]and backgrounds and whatever like why why this family? What do you think it was?
[13:26]Well, I think many reasons. One, you had a built in interest for those who had watched
[13:32]Big Bang. There was a familiarity with the show. So that helped automatically, but like
[13:36]you said, a lot of people didn't watch Big Bang. So they had no reference to who these
[13:40]people were great writing is great writing. And there are so many shows that will be centered
[13:46]around a family and it's not going to work because you don't have the writing. Steve Millaro was
[13:51]the driving force for young Sheldon and he wrote a brilliant pilot and he spearheaded that show
[13:58]all throughout its run. He has so much heart. That's why the Big Bang very succeeded. That's why
[14:03]young Sheldon succeeded. He had such interesting characters who were so different, but were people
[14:11]that you could identify with, you know, Chuck Laurie says in the book, we all want to mima
[14:16]who we can go over to and she can either bake us cookies or explain to us where we shouldn't
[14:20]dry shave our legs, you know. And then, but we also got to see her love life as Annie Paz talks
[14:26]about in the book. You know, this show, the romance for many years was among 60 and 70 year olds
[14:32]and it was not done in a way of like, oh, they're the old folks home and oh, they're going to,
[14:38]you know, like this is, you know, this sucks about aging. No, they were given real love lives
[14:44]that were interesting and that resonated, not just with people of that same age group,
[14:50]but with kids and teenagers who loved watching that. Then, of course, you had the dynamics between
[14:56]Sheldon and Missy to completely different kids. I know.
[15:00]that I experienced that in my family, my sister and I are nothing alike and so many siblings
[15:06]can relate to that where they just, you know, if they weren't family, they would not probably
[15:11]be talking to one another, but they have to coexist. You have the older brother, Georgie,
[15:17]who again, not like the others. And then two parents that are trying to figure out how to raise
[15:23]three kids with completely different personalities and doing so in a place like Medford, Texas,
[15:31]which is kind of like just this whatever this all-American city is growing up where everybody's
[15:37]just trying to do the best they can. And it feels like a throwback to shows like family ties
[15:42]in the wonder years and you just feel something that that allows you to be back in that world where
[15:51]things seemed simpler. And I think those are the many reasons why it succeeded, but great writing,
[15:57]great acting, it all comes together in a very snappy 22-minute episode way. And kids, families,
[16:06]adults, you know, loved it. And so I get it. I wish I actually had a greater appreciation for
[16:12]young Sheldon when it was on the air. I was a little busy, you know, with the big bang buck and,
[16:17]you know, just we didn't cover young Sheldon all that much at Glamour. So I didn't get to do
[16:23]the deep dive and watch it. Like I did when I did this book. And now I just think, my god,
[16:28]this was truly one of the most brilliant shows to ever exist on TV. And it's a real shame that it
[16:33]didn't get the Emmy love that I really do feel like it deserved. I think if it was on Netflix
[16:38]when it premiered and stayed through the run, I think it would have. But it was written off a lot
[16:44]as a kid show or as, you know, a spin-off of big bang. And, you know, people didn't give it,
[16:50]the respect it deserved. But I hope they do now when they realize what went into bringing it to
[16:55]life and why it became this juggernaut on Netflix and TikTok and YouTube and everything else.
[17:02]Wow. So shifting gears, as they say, to your own career and how you went from, you know,
[17:09]West Coast Glamour Editor and how you became a West Coast Glamour Editor. And obviously now
[17:14]writing books and all the podcast shows and all the things. But when you were growing up,
[17:19]what is it you wanted to do? And how did you end up in the magazine world? And how did you stay
[17:23]there for so long? I wanted to be Katie Kirk. And that is the God's honest truth. But I didn't
[17:28]know how to do that because I was so shy. And I also, I was such a late bloomer in the fact that
[17:35]I was diagnosed with three learning disabilities. Not until I was a junior in high school, which is
[17:41]very late. But I always knew and felt I was different. I was always studying. I was always,
[17:46]you know, and I wasn't a brilliant kid. It was just because I felt I had to put so much work in
[17:52]in order to achieve the level that I wanted to. My sister, on the other hand, could wake up
[17:58]three minutes after school started, get to school late, not worry about it, and then ace all her
[18:03]I was not that kid. I woke up two hours beforehand to get ready. And then I was up until 11 o'clock
[18:09]the night before studying. So I was a kid that just everything came later. I had to work so hard for
[18:16]it all. And I didn't know how I was ever going to achieve a dream like a Katie Kirk or whatever
[18:21]because I was also so shy. And I didn't really know how to fit in with my peers. I could talk to
[18:27]40 year olds better than I could talk to kids my own age. And we later came to understand that,
[18:32]you know, sometimes when you have a learning disability, it's just certain things come a little
[18:37]bit later and you're slower to adapt or fit in. So that was always the biggest issue, which is to
[18:43]say, like, I knew the career I wanted. I didn't think it was possible given that I felt so sometimes
[18:50]stunted or held back. And in fact, I didn't get my job at Glamour until I was 30. Like,
[18:57]it did not come right out of college. Like it took a lot of freelancing and everything else
[19:05]to get to that point. And it was often hard because I just felt like, oh, I'm the oldest person in
[19:10]the room because most of these kids are starting right out of college at, you know, 22. And I'm 30
[19:16]at the time that I'm getting my first real like big girl job, so to speak. But I learned from that,
[19:22]you know, everybody goes at their own pace. I couldn't do what I do now 15 years ago or 10 years
[19:29]ago. I wouldn't have been ready for it. And that just comes with a lot of experience. I say
[19:34]the reason that I stayed at Glamour for 15 years was because I wasn't based in New York. I was
[19:40]in Los Angeles as first, you know, the digital West Coast entertainment correspondent, then West
[19:46]Coast editor, then senior West Coast editor. And I wasn't in one world trade or four times square
[19:53]other than just coming in and out to visit. I was I was on my own. And there's downsides to that
[19:59]because you
[20:00]do feel left out of a lot of things and you often feel like I compare it to that episode
[20:04]of friends when it's the Thanksgiving episode and Chandler's in the box. And he's like putting
[20:12]his finger through the box like, hello, I'm here, you know, and sometimes that felt I could relate
[20:16]to that like, hello, I'm, you know, I'm on my island. But I think I really know I was able to
[20:24]stay as long as I did because of the fact that I was on my own. And I thrived in that environment
[20:29]in a way because I am such a great self starter. And I, you know, just do things on my own.
[20:36]And I, I worked so hard after the Oakland, and I was very lucky for that. And then earlier this
[20:44]year in April, we were all kind of laid off as the magazine changed directions. And that was
[20:50]really hard. And I think about a lot of what you do with the, you know, the between chapters,
[20:56]because I'm very much in that between chapters or new chapters. But I also believe that
[21:02]this was something that I needed to happen because, you know, 15 years is a very long time to be
[21:09]in one place. And I'm so grateful for that. And I always thought I was going to stay there until
[21:13]the lights went out basically. And, you know, but you need, you need to grow up. And, you know,
[21:20]you can get, it's easy to get stuck and comfort. And sometimes you need the kick in the,
[21:25]the butt sort of speak in order to do that. So, so I'm, I'm really grateful for all my time. And
[21:31]I'm excited about what comes next scared to death about what comes next, because our industry is
[21:38]I hate to say crumbling, but it's not the same as it was. So you're trying to figure out ways
[21:43]to rebrand as they say or reinvent yourself. But I'm also so lucky that I always tell people
[21:49]one of the most important things you can do at any job is diversify and learn other skills,
[21:56]do other things. I had to push to write books while I was on staff at Glamour and also do the
[22:04]podcast. But I knew it was important to my career. And thank God I pushed as hard as I did because
[22:11]I'm in such a good place given that coming here out of 15 years of Glamour where, you know,
[22:18]the young Sheldon book in many ways was such a saving grace for me because it allowed me to still
[22:25]have that creative, you know, tool that I love to use. And just be like, okay, because I'm in this
[22:31]transition period, at least I have this to also focus on. So that is a long way of saying how everything
[22:37]came about. But you know, it's um, yeah, you just got you really have to take one thing at a time
[22:43]instead of sometimes focusing on the big picture, because that's just too overwhelming. And
[22:48]you'll never know like you just, you know, none of us ever go from zero to 100 right away. It's
[22:53]a lot of baby steps that take you there. Totally agree. And that is such an interesting story. And one
[23:00]that so many people in the magazine and publishing and newspaper world can relate to as everything
[23:06]changes. And I feel like the one thing we can count on is, which is, you know, obviously a famous quote
[23:11]was, is that things will continue to change. But it's different when you know yes, which is like,
[23:16]wait, like what do you mean like the entire, an entire industry could just like peter out as I was
[23:23]flipping through to magazines on a plane the other day. And they were like 20 pages long, you know,
[23:27]like how did this happen? But anyway, yeah, it's great. You know, it's so funny too is that over
[23:33]the summer, I got to do something that was always a dream of mine, which was co-host access Hollywood.
[23:39]And I got to do it with kid Hoover, who's such an icon in this business. And it was a dream,
[23:45]and it was so much fun. And of course I knew after two days of co-hosting, I was like,
[23:50]I just want to keep doing this. I love it so much. But exes Hollywood went off the year in September
[23:55]of this year. And that show is done. And it's like, well, what do you do when the things that you
[24:03]had been building up to do are going away? And you just, and that's what scary is that it's like,
[24:09]okay, well, we have to figure out new ways to do this. So, you know, it's it's all where it's
[24:16]the Wild Wild West out there. We're all figuring it out. And, you know, and you have to be open
[24:21]because 10 years ago, we really didn't know what podcasts were, video podcasts are doing. Like,
[24:28]so you have to be open. But yeah, it's wild. It's wild out there, Sydney.
[24:36]Well, how, how did you get over your shyness?
[24:40]Oh, that's such a good question. How did I get over the shyness?
[24:44]I got over it because I was so tired of kids making fun of me for being either shy
[24:56]or not fitting in. And, and this is going to sound so cheesy.
[25:00]But there's a song from the 80s. I think it was when the go-in gets tough the tough get going by Billy Ocean
[25:10]Yeah, it's such a good and I remember listening to this
[25:15]like way in the late 90s and early 2000s and it became a song that that really like
[25:22]Made me realize like you got to stop letting kids push you around and make fun of you because you don't fit in
[25:29]I would eat often in high school in the bathroom stall because it was easier to do that alone
[25:36]And not have anyone judge me then to be out with everyone in the lunch auditorium and be eating by myself and
[25:45]After a while, you know, and I was just again
[25:48]You just when you don't fit in kids can be so mean and awful and you know and again
[25:53]We learned because of my learning disabilities. This was a lot of why you know this was
[25:57]you know, I just didn't relate to kids my own age and I got so tired of
[26:03]Them trading me a certain way and it was kind of like they don't know how I'm gonna do this
[26:09]But I'm gonna show to them that they mess with the wrong kid and I just kept listening to that Billy Ocean song like you know
[26:15]When it's tough, you just got to keep going you got to keep going and you got to prove to them that
[26:21]This is not okay to make fun of you, you know, and and be mean and all the stuff so that's really what did it was a
[26:30]determination on my end of like I'm gonna show them. I don't know how I'm gonna show them
[26:36]But I think I'm gonna show them by being
[26:39]Really tough in a way of like this is not gonna bother me
[26:43]And it's not gonna stop me from trying to do what I would love to do
[26:47]So it was a real self-awareness about like okay
[26:52]How am I going to be more comfortable as myself and not let this get to me and it's still hard
[26:59]They're you know, I am not somebody I I love to be out on stage now
[27:04]I love to be moderating. I love to be co-hosting
[27:07]But it takes a lot for me to get to that place where I sometimes am like oh yeah
[27:11]Let's let's do this because I always feel like I need to bring it
[27:16]And I need to do it and so I'm there's always that little girl that's thinking like I hope I can do this
[27:23]But I'm also so proud of how far that I've come because that kind of behavior from kids at that age can really
[27:30]It can it can really mess with you and make you think you're not capable of anything so it was
[27:36]Credit to Billy Ocean for
[27:39]For really being like when they go and get stuff the tough get going and they go out there and they do it and
[27:45]You prove to yourself and others that you're capable
[27:48]So that's that's really how I did it because I didn't even get bop mitzvah
[27:53]Because the thought of going up on the Bima and being in front of 100 or 150 friends and family scared the crap out of me
[28:00]So I don't know maybe I'll get bop mitzvah when you know later on in life now
[28:04]But I didn't do it then for that reason that I couldn't do it and
[28:08]So you know, it's never too late
[28:10]I'm not that oh my gosh, well first of all. Thank you for sharing all that by the way
[28:13]I was on my pleasure. I just
[28:16]You're such a good interviewer that I'm literally like, okay, let's just have therapy session and I'll
[28:20]That all this so yeah, I get it. I used to be shy too. By the way, you know, I was really oh
[28:25]Yeah, how did you get over your shyness? I don't people ask you that and I never have a good answer
[28:30]It's so hard to know like I don't know time and I don't know. Yeah drugs. No, I'm kidding. No not drugs. No kidding
[28:37]Like I'm at like the love or something, but no, I I do make to you a much better
[28:42]listener because I'm felt like I got really good at listening, but anyway, I'm like over time no, and I'm sorry
[28:49]No, I do I do love and appreciate it because you know, listen
[28:54]Everybody's story is so inspirational and I feel like you can take something away from it and
[29:00]I didn't ever think I could be I'm not a Katie correct, but I never thought I could even have a chance at that because I was like
[29:07]Well, she just has it all together, but if we don't know people's story
[29:11]We don't know what we're also capable of so I think it's so important to share and I love
[29:17]I want to hear more of your story, too
[29:18]So I'll have to interview you next time and
[29:22]hear all that all right well
[29:23]It was so nice to meet you and congrats on this book so well researched. Oh my gosh and
[29:30]New perspective that afforded me on something that I already loved and just
[29:34]To get to know you. Thank you for that enthusiasm so much and it means everything and I'm just so impressed and proud of what you've achieved
[29:42]And you're doing and I am forever your fan. So thank you, Zippy. Oh, thank you
[29:49]I mean at all I truly do
[29:52]So you're the best and I want to meet you in person one day. So you're too, please
[29:56]Let's definitely make that we'll make that happen. I'll get you an official
[30:00]book when it's ready to go and and stuff because I can't wait for you to see the
[30:03]photos too that are like wait I can't wait yeah so anyway thank you so much
[30:09]again thank you bye bye thank you for listening to totally booked with
[30:14]Zibi formerly momstone have time to read books if you loved the show tell a
[30:19]friend leave a review follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens and spread the word
[30:24]thanks so much oh and bye the books