Isabel Allende on The Quiet Happiness of Aging
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked. I'm Zibi Owens. I've interviewed more than 2,000 authors on this show
[0:07]and learned endless amounts about storytelling, reinvention, and life itself
[0:11]because when you talk about books, you're really talking about life. So get ready to hear from
[0:16]today's best authors, the best-selling and the not yet discovered. Come find your next great read
[0:22]and the story behind it. Enjoy! I had the immense honor of interviewing Isabelle Ayeende.
[0:32]Isabelle Ayeende is the author of storytelling or writing life. She was born in Peru,
[0:38]raised in Chile, and is a novelist, feminist, and philanthropist. She is one of the most widely
[0:43]read authors in the world, having sold more than 80 million copies of her books across 42 languages.
[0:50]She is the author of several best-selling and critically acclaimed books, including the wind
[0:55]knows my name, the fia letta, a long piddle of the sea, the house of the spirits of love and shadows,
[1:01]evaluna, and pala. In addition to her work as a writer, Isabelle Ayeende devotes much of her time
[1:07]to human rights causes. She has received 15 honorary doctorates, been inducted into the California
[1:12]Hall of Fame, and received the Penn Center Lifetime Achievement Award and the Anisfield Wolf Lifetime
[1:19]Achievement Award. In 2014, President Barack Obama awarded her the Presidential Medal of Freedom,
[1:24]the nation's highest civilian honor, and in 2018, she received the Medal for Distinguished
[1:29]Contribution to American Letters from the National Book Foundation. She lives in California
[1:34]with her husband and dogs. I absolutely love to this conversation, and we'll never forget the moment
[1:41]where Isabelle Ayeende cried, thinking about her late daughter. Oh my gosh, this episode.
[1:48]Welcome Isabelle, thank you so much for coming on totally book to talk about your book,
[1:52]storytelling, a writing life. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you. Biggest shocker I think
[1:59]of the book is You and Antonio Bandares. Well, I have had this crush on him forever. We're going
[2:09]to have to make this happen. We're going to have it in 2018. I know you're married, no, but you
[2:14]know. No, and so is he and he could be my son. He's like half my age. Yes. So there's that.
[2:20]Yes, that too. A little inconvenience between that and where your mother ends up at the very end
[2:26]of the book for that one research assignment. I don't know. This book has a little raceiness to it,
[2:32]unexpectedly. But joking aside, you share so much personal, vulnerable information, feeling,
[2:40]thoughts in this heartfelt, beautiful, allergy to writing or not allergy, but this beautiful love
[2:49]letter to writing itself. Why don't you talk a little bit about why you decided to write this book
[2:55]at this time? Actually, it wasn't my idea. I did a master class with a BBC called Magical
[3:04]Storytelling and they came to my office here in Sal Salito. I don't know how many people, but a lot of
[3:10]people. They took out all the furniture from the office and many cameras. And for a week, I had to
[3:18]sit in the same chair with the same hair, do the same clothes and look as if it was one take.
[3:26]And there was nothing prepared. Each lesson was about a different subject about writing.
[3:32]And they would just ask a question, for example, how do you develop a character? And I would improvise
[3:38]and then they edit. So there were 21 lessons. And I thought, well, this is my life and my experience,
[3:47]this should be my material. But they have the master class and plus they publish a sort of manual
[3:53]that comes with a class. So I couldn't use any of it. But I started thinking, what is there more
[4:00]than the technicalities of writing? What is the philosophy? What is the emotion? What drives me?
[4:09]And maybe other people. What are the fears that stop us? And the impulses that drive us forward.
[4:17]And so that was the purpose of the book. For people who want to write, for people who are writing
[4:24]and feel stuck, for readers who want to know what is behind the scene. And I'm just sort of
[4:31]memo about how these 45 years of writing have happened to me. Amazing. Well, you talk a lot about
[4:41]role of writing in your life. Can I just read a quote or two? You say writing is not an option for me.
[4:47]It's an addiction. The truth is, if I didn't write, my soul would shrivel. And I would be in some kind
[4:53]of institution. I forgot to add that. But right now, for example, I finished the book and it's in
[5:05]the hands of my editor and my agent and they are looking at it. And so I have nothing to do, but wait.
[5:10]Well, I painted all the doors in my house blue and a wall, mango color. And if you don't stop me,
[5:17]I would keep on with a brush painting. Because I'm desperate, I really need to need to write.
[5:23]That's my life. I mean, I write. Let me tell you. The blue looks amazing.
[5:28]Let me tell you that when I write, I am charming. Because I'm in locked in this room with a dog
[5:35]lost and nobody sees me or hears me. So they love me. The minute I stop writing everybody
[5:41]panics in the family. And yet, despite all that, you talk about quote, the critical voice in my
[5:50]head that sews down and slows me down. I think some people would be surprised to learn that
[5:56]even you, after all these books and all the amazing success you've had that you still have
[6:01]doubt when you start to write a book. I think everybody does. Because everybody's a different,
[6:06]every book is a different challenge. It has its own regular sets, its own clothes. And you can't
[6:14]apply a formula. What worked for another book will not work this time. So I always feel very
[6:20]insecure when I start. And it takes me weeks to feel that the book is beginning to take life and
[6:29]roll by itself. When I see the characters fully formed, doing stuff that is unexpected to me,
[6:37]then I feel that I'm okay. I would be able to write this book. But not before.
[6:43]Wow. And then towards the end of the book, you talk about how sometimes you wake up,
[6:48]you make a cup of coffee, you sit down to write. And then you say, but then frighteningly,
[6:53]look around. And it's the sun is going down. And what has even happened with the day?
[6:58]It's true. It's such a, it's like going into another place and really blanch into the story.
[7:08]And so the hours go by. And by the end of the day, I feel that I'm my bones are tired because I've
[7:14]been sitting down for too long and I'm told. But the joy, the curiosity to know what's going to happen,
[7:22]all that is there is wonderful. You also write beautifully about aging and funny too. Can I read
[7:29]one more quote? Or he said, age has not made me wiser or calmer. It has not made me more amenable or
[7:36]less prone to fall in love. But it has given me a quiet happiness when I least expected it.
[7:41]I am not afraid of pain because I am stronger than I look or of death because I have seen it
[7:46]up close. It is not a skeleton with a scythe, but a kind lady who smells of gardenias. And
[7:52]sits waiting for me in my garden. I only fear the moment when I will not be able to write anymore.
[7:57]Yeah. I don't, I want to just die suddenly if possible at my computer with a finished book by the way,
[8:06]I don't know, did unfinished. When I write the last word, the end, that's the end.
[8:14]That would be good timing. That would be so good. That's like out of a book, except no one would
[8:19]believe it in the book. On a different note, you write a lot in the book about the loss of your
[8:25]daughter Paula. And I am so sorry for that. I read Paula when it came out and I have been a fan
[8:30]of yours ever since. And the way you wrote about her loss in this book was so moving, just so
[8:37]moving. Thank you. Oh, you know, it's interesting. So many years have gone by more than 30 years.
[8:44]And I still can't talk about it. And my son cannot either. It's still so present. So raw.
[8:53]We have kids. I have four kids. Yeah. Yeah. You can imagine. Yeah. Oh, whoa, kids is a lot.
[9:01]Four kids is a lot. But you share in this book when Paula wrote about a dream of hers, and it
[9:10]was almost like this premonition. And we don't have to talk about it. But she wrote about what it
[9:15]felt like and how she didn't want to be stuck in her body. And yet she was inaccessible. And it
[9:21]was, it just gave me goosebumps up and down. I'm glad you shared it because it spoke to
[9:27]everything you were saying about the power of dreams. And the power of the written word,
[9:32]but it was so cathartic. I think that the beginning of healing was writing. Nothing else helped
[9:40]at that point. My mother said nothing helps. No vocations, you know, why no pro sack, no therapy,
[9:47]just right. And she was right. And yet for a little while, you said you couldn't write until
[9:53]Anlamat tells you in book passage that you should go to India. And then, and then the narrative
[9:58]takes another turn. Yeah. I realized that I can always go back to nonfiction when I'm stuck,
[10:06]when I'm in a writer's block, then I can become a journalist again, research and write about
[10:12]almost anything except sports and politics. Well, the fact that you made it through and could share
[10:19]it with us even now. It just brings her to all of us. And that is so special. Many, I mean, I often
[10:28]get messages from writers who are stuck that they have begun something years ago sometimes. And it's
[10:35]there in a drawer, waiting. It's like a haunting presence. And they don't have the time or the energy
[10:43]to take it again and start writing again. Or they are stuck in a scene. They get to a point in the
[10:51]writing when they can't go continue because somehow it's like a dead end. So I always tell them,
[10:58]just change, do something else. Write and skip that. That doesn't work and write another chapter,
[11:05]another part of the book. And then you go back. And if you go back two or three times and it still
[11:11]doesn't work, it shouldn't be there. So just take it out. And a book that you can't write, read it
[11:18]after a while that you have not read it, read it. If it doesn't strike a chord in you, that's not
[11:25]the book. You should be writing. But you should be writing. So start something else. And maybe one
[11:31]day you will be ready for this book, but not right now. You even say that you believe your
[11:40]characters live on in another dimension that they are there. Just a little bit inaccessible.
[11:44]Like the stories, the stories, I think they are in the air. And I'm like a radio. I need to tune
[11:50]into the right frequency to get the story. Which doesn't happen immediately. It takes a while.
[11:58]And what happens to the characters after? Well, it's interesting. Some characters, a few characters
[12:04]come back and they come back and disguise. And I'm in page 120 and I say, what? This guy is exactly
[12:12]the same as the guy in daughter of fortune. In daughter of fortune, he was a Chinese doctor. But
[12:17]here he's somebody else and he's still the same character. But the other day I got a question that
[12:23]was very good. What happens to the characters that betray you? That you have worked with them for a while.
[12:30]And suddenly they don't make the cut. Because something happens, they are aborted in a way.
[12:38]And it's so difficult to let them go. So it's like a friend that you have to let go.
[12:46]However, I don't mind letting go the book when the book is finished. It's finished. And I
[12:52]lament it for like 25 minutes. And then I'm thinking of the next book. And I forget about the other one.
[12:59]And because my books are translated to many languages, but not all at the same time. So for example,
[13:05]it's in Romania, Slovenia, they are translating a book I wrote 10 years ago. So I get questions
[13:11]from the translator that I can't answer because I have totally forgotten the book.
[13:16]Yeah, I don't remember what one is people. I don't remember at all. I am totally focused on the
[13:23]project that I have in my hands right now. And the rest is gone. I mean, that's a good thing.
[13:28]Very good thing. I saw this at the same in the same spirit when they make for example a movie or a
[13:36]mini series with one of my books. And they say, oh, but it's not like the book and whatever
[13:41]don't you feel that no, I don't feel anything. It's not my book anymore. You went out into the world
[13:47]and it belongs to other people. I kind of go read about readers saying, look, this is what I meant.
[13:53]No, everybody interprets the book or they want.
[13:56]You had some really interesting things to say about characters and character development and how
[14:01]sometimes just nice characters like your uncle or somebody just they can't make it into the book.
[14:06]Like the priest that you interviewed before his scandal happened that you just you're like,
[14:11]there's nothing interesting. You're just a nice person. Yeah, there's nothing good about for
[14:16]literature. Nothing good about happiness and goodness. You need villains. You need tragedy. You need
[14:22]blood. Otherwise there's no story. Take a look at the memorable stories in the great offers and
[14:31]the memorable books. They're all tragedies. This about war and revenge and bloodshed and
[14:39]love that doesn't work and everybody ends up in a suicide. That's what was great for literature.
[14:45]Maybe not so much for real life, but so when I often say, I don't mind the bad things that have
[14:54]happened to me, the suffering, the displacement, exile, all the bad things because that's the
[15:00]material for for for work for my work. But also it's a rich memory. I feel that my life has been
[15:10]well lived. If everything would have been happy and peaceful and lovely and oh no God, I rather
[15:18]have an interesting life. Wow. And it sounds like you and your mother by writing from an early age,
[15:25]I like love her as a character from an early age. You knew essentially you were a writer because
[15:32]you would write her these very long letters and you could record everything and keep your eye on
[15:39]all the details in life. And I found it really interesting when you said that when you stopped writing
[15:44]the letters, you you miss a way of looking at the world that you used to have. I don't pay attention.
[15:50]I don't pay attention. Before I would write on my mother every evening or my life. I mean since I
[15:56]was 16 years old and I would pay attention during the day to collect a few things that I would
[16:02]write in the evening. I needed some material for the letter. And so I would sometimes take notes,
[16:08]but I would keep it in mind. This happened. For example, I don't know 50 Pelicans landed in the
[16:13]La Vonde today. And I was start thinking well, they look like Viking ships when I went there on the
[16:19]war. And so I would put together things for the letter. Now I see the Pelican Sunday fly away and I
[16:26]that's it. The game went. No Viking ships. No Viking ships. They're gone. One of my favorite things that
[16:35]you said in the book. He said, according to my mother, when something doesn't work, you have to
[16:40]eliminate it with no regret. She was referring to clothes and toxic friendships. I apply that to
[16:46]my writing and my husbands. Not that I have had so many only three, but if I live long enough,
[16:54]I might have another one. I've got one when I say that to my half. So he gets really angry.
[17:04]I bet. Yeah, he has no sense of humor for that.
[17:06]And I always tell him, you better keep your brain because at the minute you get
[17:13]demented, I'm sending you back to your children to leave in somebody's basement.
[17:20]Not terrible wife. Oh my goodness. At one point, back to writing for a minute. Paula actually
[17:27]tells you that you should tell your students to write a bad novel. And that just takes the pressure
[17:33]do you still tell people to do that? Is that still correct? Yeah, I tell myself. And you tell yourself
[17:38]and I tell myself because when I start on January 8th, sometimes I don't have an idea of what I'm
[17:44]going to write. But if I think I'm going to write a great book, I can't even start. But I said,
[17:50]I'm going to write a shitty book and let's see how I edit it afterwards. And then I get going.
[17:57]And on the way, I am correcting and I'm editing and researching. I'm trying to make the
[18:03]language more beautiful. I'm working on it. But with a freedom that I'm not writing a great book.
[18:09]I'm just telling a story. I want to convey the story, the rest we see. It really helps. But it
[18:17]really helps in life. When I cook, not that I'm a good cook, I'm a terrible cook. But when I cook,
[18:24]first of all, I can't follow the manual. I can't read a recipe and follow it. So I have to
[18:28]improvise. And I think, okay, this is not going to be really, really good. But it's edible. So
[18:34]let's get going. And that's the way I lead my life. I know that perfection for me is impossible.
[18:41]So let's do the best I can. That's excellent advice. I love that. Perfectionists everywhere.
[18:49]We thank you. With Mother, what I remember being young and so anxious about, am I doing the right
[18:56]stuff? Am I raising my kids to be decent and good people? Am I overloading them with the response?
[19:03]Who are? What am I doing? Because nobody teaches you anything about parenting.
[19:11]And now I think when I advise my son, I said, you do the best you can according to the circumstances
[19:18]and then the rest is in the hands of destiny. Just let it go. It doesn't matter.
[19:22]It's true. He says that I'm terrible, that he barely survived his childhood. But he did. And he's
[19:30]a decent, honorable person. So I did a good job.
[19:36]And you even talk about your grandchildren in the book. And he said, I can barely even remember
[19:41]their names. I know that I have no so many. I have three only.
[19:46]You're so funny. I mean, you're sensitive to it. I also found it interesting when you said that
[19:51]your sense of humor didn't really translate to Venezuela and that what was funny in Chile was
[19:56]like offensive in Venezuela. And it really depends on the language. But you know what,
[20:01]that what is not translatable really is irony and humor. Because it does, it's cultural.
[20:10]It belongs to a place, to a language and to a time. What was funny in the 60s doesn't make any sense
[20:17]today. And what was funny in Chile is not funny in Venezuela because it's another reality really.
[20:25]And it's even worse when you try to translate it into another language.
[20:31]I remember I had a wonderful translate later, that's Piron. And she would say, look, this doesn't
[20:38]work in English. It's just offensive or it's suspicious. Not only humor, sometimes you would say,
[20:45]look, I'm stuck in this love scene and really we have to tone it down. Because in English,
[20:53]all these sounds suspicious. Because in Spanish we have a whole vocabulary for love that if you
[21:04]translated into English, you would sound so tacky and so off. So suspicious really. Nobody
[21:10]speaks like that. I'm glad you have a good translator who you apparently have a psychic relationship
[21:18]with, which is awesome. Unfortunately, she's no longer my transition. She died some time ago.
[21:24]I'm sorry. Yeah. I miss her. Yeah. Well, that was that was crazy how she got that sense from the
[21:30]earthquake and left. Oh my gosh. All the stories in here are really unbelievable. Amazing.
[21:37]When you look back at all the works that you've done, is there a book that you're like,
[21:44]if people could only read one, they should read this one? The House of the Spirits, my first book.
[21:50]It has been in print for 45 years in 42 languages. They have made movies and mini series and ballet
[21:58]whatever. I did pave the way for all my other books. So I'm incredibly grateful to that book.
[22:06]I have tried to read it and I can't because I know the stories of why would I read something
[22:10]that I already know. But I saw them in a series. They had a prime video Amazon, a mini series of eight
[22:20]episodes that were filmed in Chile with Latin American and Spanish actors in Spanish. And it is
[22:27]fantastic. I have forgotten the book completely. But I saw them in a series. I said, wow,
[22:33]this is a really good book. So I was so proud that they had chosen my book to do something so
[22:42]so expensive and carefully done and with so much talent invested. It was, I feel really honored.
[22:49]It's amazing. And tell me for one minute about this new need for quiet as you've gotten older
[22:56]that around you, you just want things to, you just need to, you don't even turn the music on in the car
[23:02]anymore. You just want to talk about it. I think that happens to everybody as we get older. We have
[23:07]to focus more. Everything is distracted, distracting. We live in the noise. The world is noisy.
[23:15]And for my work and my life, now I need silence more and more. And I just enjoy it. So I,
[23:23]I don't, for example, my husband has been away for a week to visit his kids in the east coast.
[23:28]I don't even turn on the TV. It doesn't occur to me because I can be quiet in a quiet place.
[23:36]And that is such a privilege. So wonderful. And then I can think better and I can write better
[23:43]if I'm in silence. When I was young as a journalist, there was a large one, several desks,
[23:52]several typewriters, the old typewriters that you had to beat up the keys, the noise, the people
[23:59]talking, everybody smoking. And I could write there. I don't know how to, today I couldn't.
[24:06]Well, I feel like I should leave you to your silence.
[24:09]Thank you for letting my voice interrupt your blue door in heaven of quiet and solitude.
[24:18]So you can see the blue doors? I can see the blue doors.
[24:21]Let me tell you. Yeah. Look, gorgeous.
[24:25]Really gorgeous. You keep the mango, the mango wall. When my husband saw it,
[24:30]what? This looks like the Mexican restaurant.
[24:34]It's a really big shirt. It's a really big shirt.
[24:37]Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye bye.
[24:41]Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi, formerly momstone have time to read books.
[24:47]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens,
[24:53]and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and bye the books.