Jo Piazza, THE PARISIAN HEIST
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked.
[0:02]I'm Zibi Owens.
[0:04]I've interviewed more than 2,000 authors on this show
[0:07]and learned endless amounts about storytelling,
[0:10]reinvention, and life itself.
[0:11]Because when you talk about books,
[0:13]you're really talking about life.
[0:15]So get ready to hear from today's best authors,
[0:18]the best-selling and the not yet discovered.
[0:20]Come find your next great read and the story behind it.
[0:24]Enjoy.
[0:27]Jo Piazza is back on the podcast to talk about
[0:30]the Parisian Heist novel.
[0:32]Jo Piazza is the international best-selling author
[0:35]of 12 books, including The Good Morning America Book
[0:38]Club Pick.
[0:39]We are not like them with Christine Pride.
[0:41]She's also the host of The Critically Acclaimed
[0:43]Under the Influenced Podcast.
[0:45]Thank you, Jo, for having me on that.
[0:47]Her work has been featured in The New York Times
[0:49]and The Wall Street Journal, among other publications.
[0:52]She lives in Philadelphia with her husband
[0:54]and three feral children.
[0:56]Welcome, Jo.
[0:57]Thanks so much for coming back on Totally Booked.
[0:59]What is this like your 100th time?
[1:00]You're the most prolific author ever
[1:02]to talk about The Parisian Heist.
[1:04]Thank you for having me.
[1:05]I've got my clients.
[1:06]I actually have a hard copy here.
[1:07]Oh, let's see, let's see.
[1:08]Oh, let's see.
[1:09]They just tell me the hard copy.
[1:10]It's all pretty, isn't she pretty?
[1:11]I know.
[1:12]Well, I mean, I love talking to you.
[1:13]This is one of my favorite podcasts to do.
[1:15]I like, it's like we have a date every summer.
[1:17]We have to do this.
[1:18]I love that.
[1:19]I talked to you more than some of my college friends.
[1:20]This is great.
[1:21]I know.
[1:23]OK, tell listeners what The Parisian Heist is about.
[1:26]Yeah, so I mean, this one's really fun.
[1:28]It's kind of similar.
[1:29]If you've read My Sisley and Inheritance,
[1:32]it's a dual timeline.
[1:33]And I keep calling it the modern day timeline.
[1:36]But y'all, it's set in 96.
[1:37]And for me, 96 was yesterday.
[1:39]And I said this to someone.
[1:40]And they're like, that was 30 years ago.
[1:42]And I'm like, no, it wasn't.
[1:44]I feel the exact same way.
[1:45]The 90% I am not.
[1:47]I have not progressed to what the 20s
[1:49]is that even what we're calling this?
[1:50]I mean, the 20s.
[1:52]And so, but I said it, it's an all female art heist set in 1996.
[1:58]And I said it in 96 because a heist is so much more fun
[2:01]to pull off when you don't have all of the knowledge
[2:04]of humanity at your fingertips.
[2:06]When you can't look everything up,
[2:08]where you have to dig to actually find information.
[2:10]And so that's so fun.
[2:12]It's a bunch of struggling artists in Paris.
[2:15]And also in the 90s, they're like going to nightclubs.
[2:17]And they're like spotting Liam Gallagher and wearing slip dresses
[2:21]and everyone's smoking.
[2:22]And they're doing this heist.
[2:23]And it was A.D. or say to try to bring down
[2:25]the world's largest art-dealing family.
[2:27]And then in the past timeline,
[2:29]I tell the untold story of Joe Van Gogh,
[2:31]who was Vincent Sesteran.
[2:32]Yes, Joe Van Gogh.
[2:33]I thought of Van Gogh.
[2:34]It is Joe Van Gogh.
[2:35]It is Joe Van Gogh.
[2:36]Vincent Sesteran law, who is the reason
[2:39]that we know his name today.
[2:40]She inherited hundreds of his paintings when her husband died
[2:43]that were completely worthless.
[2:45]And she turned him into a household name, a brand.
[2:48]And I really reinvented herself as one of the most important
[2:52]people in the art world in the early 20th century.
[2:55]And yet no one has heard her name, Joe Van Gogh.
[3:01]I loved learning about that.
[3:02]I'm a huge Van Gogh fan.
[3:04]I feel like we had a moment.
[3:05]I lived in France for a summer on one of those language
[3:07]immersion programs in the 90s, by the way.
[3:10]And I did.
[3:11]And I was in that area in the South of France.
[3:14]And I feel like a kinship.
[3:15]So I'd loved hearing more about the whole family and everything.
[3:20]And just the stories that are not
[3:22]reported on that changed history.
[3:24]The stories that aren't reported on.
[3:25]And the women who changed history.
[3:27]I mean, I think that's so important to think about who
[3:30]are the women behind these male geniuses
[3:33]that we uphold as a cultural phenomenon.
[3:36]When really, we truly wouldn't have known his name.
[3:39]And I love that you love Van Gogh because I also love Van Gogh.
[3:43]And this book is just so chock-full of fun,
[3:46]Van Gogh, and art tidbits that it's a delicious story.
[3:50]But I also think you're going to walk away.
[3:51]I mean, I pretty much like have an art history minor.
[3:55]Now I'm a minor in Van Gogh.
[3:56]So yeah, it's so much fun.
[3:58]I love it.
[3:59]We're also touring at a bunch of art museums, which is very cool.
[4:04]And the sunflowers, because you read it,
[4:06]the sunflowers painting is in the book.
[4:08]We talk about it a lot, how there's not just one.
[4:10]There's many.
[4:11]And there's two sunflowers visiting
[4:13]from London to Philadelphia right now.
[4:14]They just got here.
[4:15]Oh my gosh.
[4:16]And so we're going to do something fun
[4:18]with the Philly Art Museum, too, which would be cool.
[4:20]So did you minor in art history?
[4:22]You know a lot about art, such a connoisseur.
[4:25]And seriously, I was like, oh, look at that goat joke.
[4:27]She's like, totally, you know, you could have been working
[4:30]at Sotheby's or I don't know, something fun fact, though,
[4:33]when I was doing so much difficult research
[4:35]for this book in Paris.
[4:37]I went to an auction at Sotheby's, which was so fun,
[4:40]because I have an auction scene in the book.
[4:41]So I hung out there and I had the best
[4:44]cruffled croak of my life.
[4:46]Like, I just, I really have to talk about
[4:47]that truffled croak of the serve,
[4:49]because it did make it into the book.
[4:50]No, I did not minor in art history,
[4:52]but I just, I love art, right?
[4:54]I'm like such a massive art nerd.
[4:56]And for this book, I, I guess I would prepare us,
[4:59]but I also went to Amsterdam and spend a lot of time
[5:01]in the Vango library of the Vango Museum,
[5:04]where I got to read Joe's Diaries in her actual handwriting.
[5:08]She actually wrote some of them in English
[5:09]and she was practicing English and, you know,
[5:11]it was just, it was really cool
[5:12]because I read her autobiography, which is thick.
[5:15]I mean, it could just, it could, you know,
[5:18]be a door stop.
[5:19]I was written by a man, a very, very smart man,
[5:20]but I think it left out a lot of the emotion and passion
[5:24]that Joe had and by reading her words,
[5:26]that really came through for me.
[5:28]And so I got to create her.
[5:30]What I was nervous about is this is my first historical figure
[5:34]who is a real person, who is a real public figure.
[5:37]And this is fiction, right?
[5:39]I used her diaries, I used so many letters
[5:41]to create the plot and a lot of it is true,
[5:44]but also a lot of dialogue is fictional.
[5:47]And I was nervous.
[5:48]I actually made the command decision.
[5:50]I was like, I'm not going to inhabit Joe's brain in here.
[5:53]I'm going to have a friend who watches Joe.
[5:55]And I felt so much more comfortable doing that.
[5:57]I think it's because I'm a journalist.
[5:59]Like some authors do it really well, right?
[6:01]But like I felt strange being inside a real human beings head.
[6:05]So I created a character who becomes Joe's friend,
[6:08]and then does ultimately betray her.
[6:10]I love this sort of Joe on Joe narrative.
[6:13]Joe on yo.
[6:14]Joe on yo.
[6:15]Joe on yo.
[6:15]Joe on yo.
[6:16]Joe on yo.
[6:17]But I also really like the, I'll say, contemporary
[6:20]in quotes timeline, the contemporary timeline
[6:23]because what you're really writing about is wealth,
[6:26]which you start from the very beginning.
[6:27]You are, it is an interest, a deep dive
[6:30]into what it means to have wealth, to be near wealth,
[6:36]to think the haves and have nods, like how it informs.
[6:40]All, it just talk a little bit about that
[6:42]because I feel like that is a, yeah.
[6:44]I know it's a huge through lines throughout the book, right?
[6:48]Of like how money can get you both power, privilege,
[6:54]and access.
[6:54]And yeah, the first line of the book is it's terrible to be rich.
[6:58]And it's the widow of the man who used to run
[7:02]at the largest art dealing family in the world.
[7:06]If you Google who the largest art dealing family in the world is,
[7:08]you can probably see who I modeled this after.
[7:10]And because there's, there's just so much drama, right?
[7:13]And we're talking, and she's working with these struggling
[7:17]female artists who are so talented and so incredible,
[7:21]but incredible, but they also know that without power,
[7:24]without money, they're never going to be elevated
[7:28]to the level that they want to be in the art world.
[7:31]And that's also true with Vincent Fengo
[7:33]and all of the painters from the Impressionist period.
[7:35]If you didn't have a wealthy patron,
[7:37]if you didn't have someone supporting you
[7:40]and pushing your art to the forefront,
[7:42]which barely any women did at all.
[7:45]Birth the Morissot is one of the only female Impressionists
[7:49]that anyone has ever heard of if they've heard of birth, right?
[7:52]And so, what about Cassette?
[7:54]Mary Cassette.
[7:55]And Mary Cassette and Mary Cassette, yeah, yeah.
[7:57]But I think it's given where we're at right now,
[8:01]especially in American history,
[8:02]where we do have a class of billionaires
[8:05]who are controlling so many things in our country,
[8:08]who are controlling so much of culture right now,
[8:11]so much of media.
[8:12]It's interesting to raise those questions,
[8:15]what can many power and privilege bring you?
[8:17]But then also what can it not?
[8:19]Because, so, it's Vincent, our very rich matriarch
[8:23]in the book is miserable.
[8:25]And yeah, I love this too,
[8:26]because I love books with rich people behaving badly
[8:29]and they behave very badly in this book.
[8:33]And because they're not happy,
[8:35]because they're not satisfied.
[8:36]And yeah, you can't say that money does it by happiness
[8:38]because you'll see at the end of the book,
[8:41]when our young women who have been struggling
[8:43]do have money, power, access and privilege,
[8:46]they are much more comfortable
[8:47]and they have much more freedom.
[8:49]So I do hope that that starts
[8:50]a lot of interesting conversations about, you know,
[8:54]and especially in the art world,
[8:56]what it takes to make a painting worthwhile
[9:00]in the public's eyes and also valuable, you know,
[9:03]even in Van Gogh's time,
[9:04]we were not talking about these paintings
[9:06]being worth millions, of course, right?
[9:08]That's not something that really picked off
[9:11]until the 50s.
[9:12]Joe Van Gogh did a really great job
[9:15]of messing around with the market in interesting ways.
[9:19]She would hold certain paintings back
[9:21]to make demand search for them.
[9:23]She would play different people off of each other
[9:26]to increase their value.
[9:27]I mean, she was incredibly savvy
[9:30]and a really early example of someone setting prices
[9:34]for these paintings and someone deciding
[9:36]what they should be worth as they go into the market.
[9:39]It's so interesting.
[9:41]Well, it's always been that there are certain families
[9:45]who have outsize influence on society, right?
[9:50]Whether through it hard work or entrepreneurship
[9:54]or royalty or, right?
[9:56]That is just sort of the way it has always been.
[9:59]I don't think there's a...
[10:00]Anything necessarily wrong with that, isn't it,
[10:03]how you use your power and influence for good?
[10:06]I think a lot of it is how you use your power
[10:07]and influence for good.
[10:08]And I think also for the first time,
[10:10]in a long time, we're seeing a class of billionaires
[10:14]who are not using it in the ways that we used to see it
[10:19]to benefit society, to trickle down.
[10:22]And so yeah, I mean, this is also like a story
[10:25]as well this time.
[10:26]We can go back to the Roman Empire.
[10:27]I'm reading Charlie right now,
[10:29]actually the biography of Alexander the Great.
[10:34]There's a kid version by Dom Sandruck,
[10:36]who does the rest of his history.
[10:37]It's so good.
[10:39]And you know, all of that is about conquering,
[10:43]accumulating more wealth, accumulating more power.
[10:45]Like it's a story of the ages,
[10:48]but I do think it's how you use that influence,
[10:50]how to use that power and how you use that money
[10:52]for the benefit of the common good.
[10:55]And I think we're seeing a lot less of that these days.
[10:58]We also have a strand of the loneliness factor
[11:01]as people age.
[11:02]And even though we're all on top of each other
[11:04]and so busy and just the image of an elderly lady
[11:10]just really wanting to speak to her cleaning lady,
[11:12]not wanting her to leave, just longing for connection
[11:15]wherever she can find a delighting, seeing as you have
[11:18]in your opening scene, when her step grandson comes in.
[11:23]And just that the need for human touch and connection,
[11:26]no matter what is like at the pace of human happiness.
[11:30]Totally, totally.
[11:31]Yeah, her very sexy step grandson.
[11:33]We do have a spicy scene in the Louvre Friends,
[11:36]which I also researched not by having my own spicy scene
[11:38]and the Louvre, but I went there right before the book
[11:41]with the print where and just walked around and I was like,
[11:44]all right, what exactly could you see?
[11:46]And who could see in from the courtyard
[11:48]while this was happening?
[11:50]And that was very fun to imagine.
[11:52]But yeah, I wanted to talk about two things in this.
[11:55]One, the intense loneliness of the world
[11:59]that we live in right now and how we're all longing
[12:01]for real life and human connection and real conversations.
[12:04]And then also the reinvention of a woman at any age.
[12:08]She's Stella Swanson is in her 70s, you know,
[12:11]and she feels like she's truly at the end of her life.
[12:15]She is lonely and she really is kind of at her widths
[12:20]and she does not know what she's going to do next.
[12:22]But she ends up building an entirely new life for herself
[12:27]and making choices and like taking agency over her own life
[12:31]after she'd spent an entire life in service of her husband,
[12:34]and which is, you know, another interesting conversation
[12:36]I have right now as we talk about things like trad wives
[12:40]and the book strangers, you know, giving up your entire life
[12:44]and giving up all of your agency and financial agency
[12:47]to your husband and when that husband is gone,
[12:50]what does your life look like?
[12:51]And we see Stella go through this beautiful reinvention
[12:54]and build an entirely new life for herself in her 70s.
[12:58]And that was really fun for me to write.
[13:02]One of the books that I love so much
[13:03]that I've been hand-selling when we do our pop-up workshop
[13:07]which you are such a massive inspiration for
[13:09]when you open your book store.
[13:10]I was like, I can do this.
[13:12]I don't know about book shops.
[13:14]Is sipswearing, which is also about, you know,
[13:16]an older woman towards the end of her life
[13:18]who just completely rebuilds a community
[13:22]and rebuilds, you know, a second life for herself.
[13:25]And it was really fun to write these women in Paris
[13:30]in their 20s and then also Stella in her 70s
[13:33]and how they end up kind of building a village together.
[13:36]And tell everybody more about the pop-up books, book shops.
[13:39]Oh my God, guys, I love it.
[13:41]So I love book selling.
[13:42]Do you love book selling even more than you thought?
[13:44]You love book selling so much.
[13:45]It's amazing.
[13:46]It's amazing.
[13:48]So yeah, we opened the book case books
[13:50]because when we started out,
[13:52]we just had these vintage suitcases
[13:53]and we would take them places, film of books.
[13:55]But now we have a vintage camping trailer up in the cat skulls
[13:59]where we sell the books.
[14:00]But we also just pop up anywhere.
[14:01]We pop up at breweries, bars, wineries.
[14:05]We took over our kids' lemonade stand outside our house
[14:08]the other day, which was, but that was so awesome.
[14:11]And we sold so many books
[14:12]because people were hungry to talk about books.
[14:15]They were hungry for community.
[14:16]We met so many of our neighbors that we hadn't met before.
[14:19]And you learned so much about people
[14:20]by finding out what kinds of books they like
[14:22]and what kinds of books they do not like.
[14:24]And we had like five hours of conversation
[14:26]like from my stoop, just like hand selling books
[14:29]and chatting.
[14:30]And I feel like I know readers so much better now
[14:34]as a book seller than I ever would if I hadn't done this.
[14:37]And it's just like what we were saying before,
[14:39]like that connection, that like real world conversation
[14:44]in real life.
[14:45]I think that we are just, we're desperately hungry for it.
[14:49]And especially men too, like I had so many men stop
[14:52]at the pop up book shop.
[14:53]And they wanted to talk about books,
[14:55]but I think they were the kind of men
[14:56]who might not necessarily walk into a bookstore, right?
[14:59]And so, but when the books are right there,
[15:01]right in front of them, they want to talk.
[15:04]The most fun thing is they end up loving
[15:06]the Sicilian inheritance.
[15:07]Because it's got like mafia stuff in it, right?
[15:09]I mean, it's a book that men, it's a book
[15:11]then can also enjoy.
[15:13]And they were also really excited for creation ice
[15:15]because we've got a heist in it.
[15:17]And I remember you were posting
[15:18]when the whole heist actually went down at the loop.
[15:21]And you're like, oh my gosh, this is my book.
[15:23]And this is my book, this is my book.
[15:25]I, yeah, it was actually, so the book was done
[15:28]when the Louvre heist happened.
[15:30]And we were about to reveal the cover.
[15:31]Like we weren't doing it for like another week.
[15:33]The Louvre heist happened, like called the publisher.
[15:35]And I was like, we have to release this cover immediately.
[15:38]And they're like, I don't know.
[15:39]It's not ready.
[15:40]I'm like, it doesn't matter.
[15:41]We gotta, we gotta get on this today.
[15:42]But I interviewed so many heist experts for the book.
[15:46]In fact, I have a blurb from Anthony Amore,
[15:49]who is the head of security at the Gardner Museum.
[15:51]He is a Bella Gardner in Boston,
[15:53]which has one of the most notorious
[15:55]outstanding heists in history.
[15:57]And Anthony is gonna spend the rest of his life
[16:00]trying to track down these paintings that are still missing.
[16:02]And then I'm gonna write the screenplay
[16:04]about him finding them.
[16:05]That's our agreement.
[16:06]But you know, what I learned about heists
[16:07]is they're, they get very mythologized in our minds.
[16:11]But they're so much less sexy than you think they are.
[16:14]So when the Louvre heist was just so basic,
[16:17]I was so happy because like my heist is not like
[16:21]all Thomas Crown affair, which by the way,
[16:23]I rewatched Thomas Crown affair the other day.
[16:25]So good.
[16:26]It's so good.
[16:27]Like everyone should be on everyone's summer to do list.
[16:30]Rewatched Thomas Crown affair.
[16:32]I don't know who I wanna make out with more.
[16:34]Renee Russo or Pierce Brosnan.
[16:36]Like they're both so incredibly sexy
[16:39]and it's such a smart movie.
[16:41]But like movies like that do glorify
[16:43]and mythologize heists.
[16:45]Like you're rooting for the thieves
[16:47]even though you're like,
[16:47]Robbery's wrong.
[16:48]Also I want these thieves to win.
[16:50]And so when the Louvre heist was just some guys
[16:53]stealing like a cherry picker and breaking a window,
[16:56]I was like, oh thank God, thank God.
[16:58]Because a heist is actually way more basic
[17:00]than we think it's gonna be.
[17:01]If you could steal any painting from any museum
[17:04]and hide it in your homes and wear
[17:06]what would you pick?
[17:07]I think about this all the time.
[17:10]I think stealing and,
[17:11]stealing a large painting is really hard.
[17:12]And that is one of the things that I learned
[17:15]while I'm trying to pull off a heist
[17:16]like getting an actual painting.
[17:18]My God.
[17:19]So yeah, if I could steal one piece of art,
[17:22]I mean, I, there are a lot of Van Goghs
[17:24]that I'd love to steal.
[17:24]I love a sunflowers.
[17:25]I love a sunflowers for,
[17:27]and I talk about this in the book
[17:28]because I think they truly do show all of the phases of life.
[17:31]Like when she start looking at them,
[17:33]you have the little buds who haven't opened yet.
[17:35]You have these like vibrant headels
[17:38]like stretching towards the sun.
[17:40]And then you also have these leaves
[17:41]that are starting to wilt and die.
[17:43]I mean, they're in all of them.
[17:45]And Van Gogh also painted them,
[17:48]the majority of them as a welcome present for Gauguin
[17:51]when they were going to live together and paint together
[17:53]instead of filling the room with flowers,
[17:55]he filled it with paintings of flowers.
[17:57]And I think it was one of the most optimistic times
[18:00]in his life where he really felt
[18:02]that there were a lot of possibilities.
[18:04]And I can see and feel that hope
[18:06]in every single one of those paintings,
[18:07]but they're big.
[18:08]So they're hard to steal.
[18:09]And I'm saying this as I'm literally gonna go
[18:11]to the Philly Art Museum to like sign books
[18:13]in front of sunflowers.
[18:14]I'm not gonna steal them guys.
[18:16]You don't want to steal them.
[18:18]I know how to steal them now,
[18:21]but I'm not gonna do it.
[18:22]Good, thank you for that.
[18:24]So, Joe, what chapter of your life
[18:28]would you say you are leaving in an entering?
[18:33]I'm out of the baby phase,
[18:35]which I think is really, really interesting
[18:37]because I have been kind of in breeding mode
[18:41]for about 10 years because I have a nine-year-old,
[18:44]a six-year-old, and a three-year-old,
[18:47]who is now finally much more of a self-sufficient human.
[18:51]And it's I'm out of the baby phase
[18:53]for the first time in 10 years.
[18:54]And I have never felt so much freedom over my body.
[18:59]And they're still touching me all the time.
[19:00]They're still literally trying to climb back
[19:02]inside of me, but at the same time,
[19:05]I know, and knowing that that phase is over.
[19:08]Knowing I'm not going back to that,
[19:11]I think I've just, I feel free.
[19:14]And I feel like I've let go of a lot.
[19:16]And that's amazing because I'm also like,
[19:19]I feel more creative than ever.
[19:20]I talked to so many young women,
[19:21]and I know you do too,
[19:23]who are really nervous about having kids,
[19:24]because they're like, what if I can't still be an artist?
[19:27]What if I can't still be a creative person in the world?
[19:30]And I think I've gotten so much more creative and prolific
[19:33]after becoming a mother, because I can manage my time,
[19:37]but also seeing the world through my kids' eyes.
[19:40]Like just sparks so much in my brain.
[19:42]It's amazing.
[19:43]And I love it to that end.
[19:45]I have new news, which is like breaking news,
[19:48]which I haven't talked about yet.
[19:50]I am writing a middle-grade series.
[19:51]Oh, that's exciting.
[19:54]Right.
[19:55]It's got me more.
[19:56]Yeah, it's called the Bone Crew.
[19:58]And it's about the kids.
[20:00]It's a paleontologist and so they go on digs with their parents, but they're the ones who really solve the dinosaur scientific mysteries because kids notice more than adults do.
[20:09]And but they give their parents the credit because you know, they want them to keep getting funding, but there's a sci-fi angle they find a glitch in one of the fossil beds where they actually enter a multiverse where the asteroid never hit in dinosaurs never got.
[20:23]And there's also, there's also an evil billionaire who is trying to get into the glitch to mine it for resources and possibly bring dinosaurs over to the other side.
[20:34]It's so much fun to write and I did it because I have a dino kid who there were no books for him. Like he went from baby books to hardcore like nonfiction and cyclopedias to there's nothing for the eight to twelve reader about dinosaurs.
[20:50]And also like really like sciencey things like there's a lot of magic right, but he's he doesn't like magic or superheroes. So yeah, the bone crew, I think the first one's going to come out next year, which is going to be so much fun.
[21:04]That is so exciting.
[21:05]Congratulations.
[21:06]It's so exciting.
[21:07]It's a different part of my brain, but yeah, it's it's really fun. And now kids like Charlie don't have to just read Jurassic Park, which is what he did and
[21:16]You know, maybe a little too, maybe a little too old, but then I remember that we were reading flowers in the attic at 11.
[21:22]Yeah, but then we didn't sleep for like 20 years.
[21:24]No, we didn't. We didn't as we all reread those books over and over again. I want to do a whole podcast series just like rereading it flowers in the attic and pedals in the wind go for it.
[21:34]Love it.
[21:34]Well, to your point, your creativity is just overflowing and you can see it in your enthusiasm and passion for everything that you do and every new project and it is infectious.
[21:45]So thank you, Joe.
[21:46]Oh, yeah, no, thank you. I mean, you know, you are you're such a role model for everything that you do for books.
[21:51]And like I said, you inspired me to finally just like fight the ball out and build this bookstore, which I love so I'm so excited.
[21:57]That is amazing. I have to come chuff. I have to find your book store wherever it is. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to be up in the Catskills for most of August.
[22:04]So I'll tell you when we're there and coming up and maybe you'll see more bears this time.
[22:08]I can't handle seeing any more bears, but maybe
[22:11]I can't believe you remember that. Okay. All right. Take care, Joe. Thank you so much. Thanks.
[22:15]Thanks for coming to see you.
[22:17]We're Asian highest. There you go. Congrats.
[22:19]Bye bye. Bye bye.
[22:21]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi, formerly momstone have time to read books.
[22:26]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens and spread the word.
[22:33]Thanks so much. Oh, and bye the books.