Libby Page and Overcoming Grief with Books

[1:30]Zibby Owens: This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously, podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram at zibby owens. I interviewed Libby Page, the author of this book made me think of you in person at my home office. She was in town on a mini book tour from The UK and stopped by my apartment for an in person podcast followed by lunch with my Zivia media team, which was so great. I ravaged this book. Can I even say that I devoured this book? And it was one of those books where I opened it up, and from the first page, I just couldn't put it down to the point of it being inconvenient because I was spending so much time reading that I had to be doing other things during, and I just couldn't stop reading it. It's lovely and heartwarming. It's about well, you'll hear what she says. But I really and truly love this, and Libby was a delight. If you look on Instagram for when we spoke, you'll see the adorable purse that she was holding, which is definitely worth digging up because it is so cute. Libby Page is a Sunday Times bestselling author whose work has been published in over 20 territories around the world. And before becoming an author, she worked in journalism and marketing. She lives in Somerset, England with her husband and young son. Welcome, Libby. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with you in person at my desk talking about your amazing book. This book made me think of you. Congratulations. Oh, thank you so much, and thank you for having me. This is, like, so amazing to me because I have been just obsessed with this book, loving it. And now, I I know it just doesn't get old to, like, have you right in front of me after you wrote this whole thing. It's just the it's just the coolest. Oh, well, it's very cool for me as well to to be here in New York and, yeah, talking about the books. Oh my gosh. I loved it. I loved it so much. Oh my gosh. Okay. Tell everybody what the book is about. Okay. So this book, Made Me Think of You, is about a woman called Tilly Nightingale whose husband sadly recently passed away. And she finds out that before he died he arranged a year of books for her. So a very special gift through her local bookshop. She will get given

[4:07]Books: a book every month and each book comes with a letter and they're all sort of inspired, you know, they're all designed to help her through a year of grief and to center off on literary inspired adventures. And where did this idea come from? From a few places really, so it's partly inspired by my own experiences of grief and turning to books as a real comfort and escape. I think I was very lucky that actually when I was grieving I could read. Tilly in the novel, she's in a real reading rut because of her grief. She's sort of, that side of her has kind of turned off really since she lost her husband. So I think I wanted to write a story that was a journey back to reading and the love of reading and how books can really take you out of of where where you are and and really act as a an escape and and a way to to move through certain emotions.

[5:03]Zibby Owens: And I know I've only just met you about three minutes ago, but your grief, who are the people you dedicated this to? You dedicated it to Sally wait. Hold on. I don't wanna I'm sure these are like the okay. To Fred Cutting and Sally Lane, who who are these people? So my

[5:20]Books: grandfather and then also a woman who I'm sure there are listeners who probably have these people in our lives who don't have a particular definition. I called her my godmother. She was really like an extra parent to me. She helped raise me. And both of these people I lost within a few months. Both were real influential people in my life, both real book lovers and I think actually one of the things that I found really helped sort of feel a connection to them after they'd gone was going back to books they loved. So I reread books that were real favorites of theirs and it felt like that connection to them that continued, which I think was really a big part of the inspiration for the book. This idea of books being like a conversation that can continue with people you love after they've gone. Well,

[6:08]Zibby Owens: I'm sorry for your losses. That sounds it just you know, I've been thinking a lot about this whole definition, like, she was my cousin or she was my Yeah. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Right? Like, why do we have to say that? I I don't know. It's just Yeah. And I think It's just somebody I somebody I love. Yeah. That's it. And and I think, you know, especially with Sally, I think of her as, you know, she was my person, you know, that person who you just you just love. And I think that, yeah, it was hard. And yeah, I feel like

[6:35]Books: being able to escape into books and just to have that different kind of world to go to, I felt so grateful. I've always been an avid reader, but I think particularly in that time to really, really lean on books was something I felt so grateful for. So what what books did Sally like? So she loved, I mean, all sorts. The Secret Garden was one of her favorites. So I loved going back and rereading that. I also got some from her shelves. So lots of kind of romances and mystery she loved that I've been rereading. And then for my grandfather, he was a real Charles Dickens fan, so those yeah, going back and rereading those always make me think of him as well. Well, I'm sure she would be delighted to know that you named a bookstore, a fictitious bookstore after her and

[7:22]Zibby Owens: an entire family, so to speak, and, you know, all of that. Talk a little bit about this bookstore, this beautiful bookstore, which I have you've described so beautifully in the book that I feel as though I have walked in and out of it a million times in the pages of of your story. Talk about creating this store.

[7:40]Books: So I think as a real, you know, a real bookworm, I have always wanted to write books in a bookstore. I'm the kind of person that if a book has a bookshop on the cover or the word bookshop or bookstore in the title I will just buy it without reading the blurb. So I've always wanted to write a book set in a bookstore. This bookstore is set in Primrose Hill in North London. I really wanted somewhere that felt like a real heart of the community because to me that's what independent bookstores especially are, know, it's not just about books, it's about like minded people coming together and a real kind of safe space. So I wanted to create a shop that was really cozy, really inviting, and somewhere that actually Tilly just, you know, goes as a sort of safe harbor really during during, you know, everything that she's going through. Well,

[8:28]Zibby Owens: I own an independent bookstore in Santa Monica called Zippy's Bookshop. And this bookstore,

[8:33]Books: I I'm like, I'm gonna just toss that aside and move in here. This sounds so amazing. But you really nailed all the functions and the things that have to happen behind the scenes at a bookstore too. Yeah. I must must admit, So I'm very friendly with the manager of my local bookstore, and I'm very aware that there are lots of books that are sent to bookstores, and often it's, you know, people reading in the, you know, on the counter and not actually doing much work. And I know that actually the reality of running a bookstore is difficult. There's a lot of manual labor, you know, picking up boxes of books. So I wanted to get that line between, you know, conveying what it's really like, but also obviously still being escapist for those of us who who don't have our own bookstores, but maybe fantasize about about one day one day owning one. Well, Alfie is a fabulous character. I can see him in my head. I have to look up I have a particular actor in mind, but I can't remember his name. So I'm gonna have to look it up after and share with you, wondering who you think he would be. But talk a little bit about Alfie because what a character. And I love his whole development and the times we see him really coming alive and his own grief and all of that. Can you talk tell us about Alfie? So I think with this novel, I had a bit of a challenge in that I essentially wanted the reader to fall in love with two different male leads. There's obviously Joe, who was Tilly's husband, who I wanted to get a sense of him across on the page and and really, you know, to to convey what their relationship was like and what what Tilly has lost. But then there's also lovely Alfie who runs the the bookstore and and really starts as as a friend and, you know, things things develop in the novel. But I really wanted someone who was in a way, quite different to Jo. So I think of Jo as a real kind of golden retriever, whereas Alfie is more quiet and subdued. He's, I think, very used to kind of watching watching things unfurl in the shop. He inherited the bookshop from his father and I think feels a lot of responsibility to to kind of keep it exactly how his how his father had it, but also, you know, finding his own path within that. He's a real fan of knitwear. I had this vision of a just really, you know, very handsome bookshop owner who dresses in these lovely oversized knits, very cosy. But yeah, he's real gentle soul, think, and sort of over time really helps Tilly kind of come out of her shell. And and I guess for both of them, you know, really, what that that connection does for both of them, think, is an important part of them. Well, there were a couple times where he accidentally raises the sweater and you catch a glimpse of his toned abs and All those hifty nerds. My gosh. You know, I was thinking, you know, you're carrying in a bookstore, you're you're carrying big boxes of books. He probably would actually be, you know, quite in in shape, shall we say. Oh my god. I'm like, I know what Libby likes.

[11:23]Zibby Owens: Anyway, that was really fun. Sorry for the sirens outside. It's New York City. This is what we have around the clock. Well, Alfie, as we discussed, is going through his own breed of loss. He's not only grieving the loss of someone, but the loss of the life he would have had had that person not died, which in this case was a dramatically different life with a different person, doing a different thing, traveling, all of this. And yet he came home to be the responsible one, take over the bookstore. And he has kind of it's like a complicated grief. He has some mixed feelings about that. Obviously, he's happy and stepped into the role, but you always kind of wonder, and I think I feel like you tap into that point of grief that it's not just the now, it's the what would have been. Yeah,

[12:06]Books: definitely. I think I was very inspired by his character by It's a Wonderful Life, it's one of my favorite films, and I think that, you know, that idea of a man who is sort of maybe pushed into a life that he wouldn't necessarily have chosen, but then actually makes makes the best of it. But, yeah, I think it's, you know, in terms of grief, it it can be so complex because it's actually, you know, all the things that happen after you've lost the person. Kind of doesn't just end, you know, keeps going all those those times. And for both Tilly and Alfie, I guess that's something that they can bond over is their their shared experience of grief. Because Tilly, she has a sister who features quite prominently in the book who maybe doesn't quite know what to say, says the wrong thing, is very well meaning, but doesn't really get it. I think for Tilly and Alfie, it's that kind of, you know, kindred spirits that they can really connect over that shared experience of grief. And I also like Tilly's friend Rachel because Rachel, and this happens often with grief, is that sometimes the people you think will be there the most are the ones who suddenly are not. And you're like, what is going on? And then unexpected people swoop in and and help out. But Rachel

[13:13]Zibby Owens: goes MIA after Joe's diagnosis and Tilly is just so devastated by this because in addition to dealing with that, now what? Her friend is gone and we don't find out later and I won't give anything away, but there's often reasons why people pull away during really tough times. And it's not because they don't care, but maybe they just can't do it. And

[13:33]Books: I felt like we don't often see that exhibited so clearly as as you portrayed it in the book. I think yeah. I guess I wanted to get across those complexities of grief, that it is there's a lot more that can go along with it that you might not have expected.

[13:47]Zibby Owens: So, yeah, that was something I definitely want to explore with her character. I'm worried that we're talking so much about grief. It's not conveying how joyful the book can be at times and actually is an incredibly positive message, hopeful. I mean, you because you go back and show us all of the fabulous times with Jo and Tilly and falling in love, and you show us all the joy that can come from a bookstore and the fun adventures that she then goes on thanks to these books that she gets. And so I found the book not dark and heavy, but actually quite light as far as a book And like this could

[14:23]Books: so I kept turning pages in that way too. Was that intentional or did you think about that? Yeah, definitely. So that's good to hear. You found that because, yes, although it is a book that is a lot about grief, it is also a book about hope and love and friendship and community. And I definitely wanted it to feel overall uplifting. I think that's something that's really important for me in my writing is, you know, I like to go there with some of the heavier things just because I feel like that's real life and I like sort of exploring those things that we all go through, but ultimately with a hopeful lens and this idea of, I guess, you know, I felt like at the start of the book, you know, Tilly feels like her story is over and I'm sure so many of us have been in those moments where you feel like, okay, something has happened, whether it's grief, whether it's, you know, any anything else that you're going through, you feel like, okay, this is my story, but actually turn a few more pages and there can be a whole other chapter that you just hadn't anticipated. So I definitely wanted this to be a book full of adventure and travel and fun and light as well as the heavier aspects. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[18:25]Zibby Owens: I mean, part of what you did so well is because of the books that she Kelly gets as gifts once a month from Joe, she gets to do things that, like, I have never done and that I feel like I got to do now. Like, I've never taken a pasta making class in Tuscany. I've never camped in a rainstorm. Thank God. I've never done a lot of these adventures that she goes on. And so we get to have a backseat onto all of that as well. So, yeah, thank you for taking us on all of these on all of these trips. Honestly,

[18:56]Books: for me writing it, and I think especially thinking about that I was writing this book about grief while I was grieving, I think it proved an escape for me as well. Know, wanted it to be a book with with travel and adventure in it and and writing those scenes I found so so joyful and it was such an escape and I guess that's what I want to give to the readers as well that it's a kind of book that you could pick up. You know, maybe if you are grieving or you're having a bit of a hard day and just want to sink into something that's gonna transport you, I think is is definitely the the intention with it. I mean, was literally reading being like, could I run a half marathon?

[19:32]Zibby Owens: I mean, could I? If I trained really well mean, she's having a hard time at the beginning, and I would have a hard time at the beginning. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think go for it. Do you run? I well, I've on and off. I would definitely not call myself a runner, but I have I have run on and off. But, yeah, I think that would be a big challenge for me as well. Well, you know, if they can do it. You know, all of this is I think I'm more more the pasta making. And actually, although I didn't go on a pasta making course in Tuscany, I did do a day's pasta making Oh, that sounds like great. In London for research for the novel, which was was very fun. You you made me very hungry at times in this book as well. And the other thing I liked is you didn't have it start immediately. Like, you didn't have Jo pass away and immediately have the book start coming. You gave her a buffer, and I think that's really important because the first couple months can often be just a whirlwind of, I don't even know, she couldn't even focus. So you gave just enough time for her to be, like, not exactly getting on her feet, but enough that she could be even remotely open to this experience.

[20:33]Books: Yeah, and I guess, you know, honestly, if you've been through that, like, you know, those initial months, I sort of felt like I don't necessarily want to read But also, you know, I wanted this book to be a book about new beginnings ultimately, and I think, yeah, it was important allowing enough time so that it feels

[20:48]Zibby Owens: realistic that actually she is at the stage where she's sort of having to think about what does life look like for me now without Jo and and sort of looking ahead to the future. You have one passage where Tilly is extolling the virtues of a bookstore and talking about how a bookstore is not just a place for commerce. It is a place where people come together. It is where you come to find yourself and find other people. And it's basically like standing on a soapbox saying, like, why we need independent bookstores now more than ever and how essential they are to communities. And it literally brought tears to my eyes because it was this impassioned plea for the continuation of something that feels like it can be on its way out at times? Or why is it so important? Isn't it just another shop? But it's not just another shop. So how do you is that how you feel about the bookstores Absolutely. And

[21:36]Books: Absolutely. I think I I very much wanted this book to be a real love letter to books and bookstores and particularly independent bookstores and booksellers. I think both, you know, as an author I'm so conscious of the fact that it is the booksellers and librarians who are the people putting my books in the hands of readers, but also just as a reader and a human being I think that my local bookstore isn't just a shop like you say, it's somewhere that I go to feel connected to other people. I think about when my son was first born and those kind of early newborn days when you're just figuring things out, know, pushing the pushchair and crashing into things. The first place I went was my local bookstore because I just wanted to be somewhere where I felt safe and kind of around like minded people and like I was out connecting with the world because I think in a bookstore, you know, you do feel like you're connected to the rest of the world because there are so many different voices and stories there and I think that's so so special and so important and I think our towns and cities are so much poorer when we don't have those places in our community. Yeah, was very much a conscious choice to kind of celebrate the independent bookstores in particular that I think are real and really special places.

[22:53]Zibby Owens: Pushchair? Is that what you call a stroller? Oh, stroller. Sorry. Yes. I've never heard that before. It really is. Pushchair. Oh my gosh. Sometimes push highchair, you know, with the food everywhere. But my gosh. Yes. A stroller. Went in a stroller with a stroller. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So this book, this is not your first rodeo. Can you tell me about becoming an author?

[23:16]Books: So I have always wanted to be an author, sort of, for as long as I can remember. I think as a child, I was such an avid reader and I really remember a moment of sort of putting the dots together and thinking oh actually someone's written these books that I read and that that's an actual job. So ever since that moment there was nothing else I wanted to do. I guess then I got a little bit older and realised it's not something that you just go out and kind of apply for I'm going to apply for a role of author! It's kind of more complicated than that. So I studied journalism, I think I thought okay it's writing but it's sort of more of a proper job. And so I did a bit of that but found that actually writing every day, sort of, in, you know, as a journalist, I got home and then was sort of burnt out and not really having that time for my creative writing, which was always my passion. So I worked in marketing for a while and had a bit more headspace then to work on my own books. I worked on my debut novel The Lido, then published as Mornings with Rosemary in The US. Since then I've been writing books and I now do a bit of coaching writers as well on writing their books, which is a nice full circle. Can you do a little catch up

[24:32]Zibby Owens: summary of your past books in case after this book? Yeah. They people wanna go back and go read your whole backlist? So

[24:40]Books: available in The US is is Mornings with Rosemary, which is a cross generational friendship story about two women, one in her eighties and one in her twenties, who come together to try and save their local swimming pool from closure. It's really a story of community and friendship and then I've written four other novels that are available in The UK. Again, of community and friendship are very very prominent in my work. And romance as well, I think it's always there. I'm a real romance reader, so I do love a love story as well within my novels. Yeah, that's the kind thing I would expect. Nailed that anticipatory

[25:22]Zibby Owens: feeling, which is often the best part before anything even happens. And you're wondering, is it gonna happen? Is it not? What would it be like? Like

[25:28]Books: That's what I love to read. So I think that's what I enjoyed, enjoyed writing in this book. So who are some of the authors that you like to read? Oh, so many. I'm a big Emily Henry fan. Well, obviously, from You this know? I also love Jojo Moyes, David Nichols. I think authors who maybe have romance in there but also, you know, kind of women's fiction explores, you know, issues that women go through. I feel like I suddenly, I mean, in this book, I should say, I mention over 60 books. So I have the 12 books that Tilly receives, but then at the start of each month, there are also these book recommendation lists. So there are lots of book recommendations in there, although suddenly now I'm like, I can't think of any books. How is that No. How is that possible? There are so many. There are lots of books. It's also a love letter to big magic in here as well as with Gilbert, which I'm assuming

[26:22]Zibby Owens: came from you. Yes.

[26:23]Books: I have read many times. It's like very my copy is very tatty, which I think is a sign of a a well loved book when you've kinda read it and underlined things and and gone back to it many times. So, yeah, that's real Are you doing anything creative with the stack of 12 books? Like, are you selling them anywhere? This the 12 that she gets? I haven't really thought of it. I'm in my local town, I'm doing an event where I'm giving away a copy of Of each one? Of each not actually a copy of each one, but a year of books through my local bookstore. So for for local people, I'll be able to go in and choose, you know, or give tell the bookseller, you know, what books they love and they'll get recommendations. So so that's a little thing that I'm doing. But I definitely I have the 12 books on my bookshelves at home. It feels very special to me to kinda have them all all lined up there. Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, the genius of it is that there was a reason why for Tilly. So it's not like these books would necessarily resonate for the average person, but you could. You could make it so that we all follow this path because after grief, there is no clear path. You might as well follow someone else's. Yeah. And I and I guess it's I'd like the idea of, you know, maybe people being inspired to do something similar as a gift or or actually just, you know, turning to books as as a source of sort of inspiration for for what to do next. It It was definitely a challenge choosing choosing the 12 I bet. 12 books. I bet. But a very fun a very fun challenge. And the ones at the beginning of each chapter too. Mean, how to narrow it down is so tough. Yeah. There are lots of real favorites in there. And and I guess something that was important to me is I want the book to feel accessible. Didn't want it to be, you know, 12 literary classics that you have to have read to sort of get the references. So I would say that the titles of the book had to work really hard so that, you know, you can just read the title and know the intention behind the book and sort of what to expect from it because, yeah, that was something that I thought was important. I want to feel like people could be inspired to go and read these books afterwards, but you certainly don't have to have read them in order to enjoy the book. Well, I'm so glad that this is coming out in The US.

[28:30]Zibby Owens: A few people, when I posted about it, were like, I'm so glad all you people in The US are finally discovering Libby Page. I'm like, yay. Now we have our reading cut out for us.

[28:41]Books: Are you working on a new project now? Yes, so I'm working on another book that will come out, I think 2028, continuing some similar themes, kind of bookishness and, you know, love story, but yeah, definitely still in development but having a lot of fun writing it. Okay. Well, I hope that'll be a US release as well. Yes. Yes, it will be. Excellent.

[29:02]Zibby Owens: Do you have advice for aspiring authors?

[29:05]Books: Yes. I think for me, one of the things that can be the biggest barrier to someone wanting to write a book is self doubt. I think so often we get in our own way, you know, we feel like, why me? Who am I to write this novel? What if I can't do it? And I think that can stop you getting, you know, even getting through and sort of getting that first draft written. So I always tell writers that because I think sometimes you can feel like there's a reason, you know, you're doing something wrong because you have that self doubt. At this stage, I feel like, you know, I've met authors who've written 20 novels and they tell me they still feel exactly the same amount of self doubt and it's really about just pushing through and doing it anyway. I'm a big believer in a messy first draft, know, get something down on the page, don't be too critical about it, just sort of, yeah, keep going, going with it really because then you've got something that you can work with. And I guess just writing from the heart, I mean, I think all my books, although they're very much fiction, the story's fictional, the characters are fictional, they do usually come from a real place, you know, something that feels emotionally true to me. And I think that's a really rich place to explore and hopefully means that those emotions come across and connect with readers because you're, you know, you're going to a real place within yourself. And I think that is a really to me that's why I write, you know, is to kind of process things and to really explore what it is like to be a human being. And I think that's such a great outlet to have in your life. So I think, yeah, just really drawing on the things that are important to you in your writing. I love that. How many times did you cry writing this book? Quite a few times, honestly. And I still, yeah, there's still, actually know, I think there's something about the concept of it that still gets me. I remember going and doing a bookshop tour in The UK, sort of pitching the concept to booksellers, and sometimes as I was saying it, was kinda getting getting a bit a bit tearful. You know, it's a very special book to me. It means a lot to me. And I hope that that, you know, that emotion comes across, you know, and and means that it will connect with readers. But as you said as well, I always think it I need to say it is uplifting as well. Think I can't promise it won't make you cry but I hope it will put you back together again and feel like a big hug at the end as well. Absolutely. Is your real name Elizabeth? Yes. It is. So it's mine. Yeah.

[31:41]Zibby Owens: I feel like I get called Libby 8,000 times a day. Yeah. So Actually, someone just subscribed to my newsletter and was like, I can't get all the library books yet. And I was like, my name is Zibby. This is not Libby at the library yet. Well, I did I must admit, I did feel like it's very cool. Like, Libby. Libby meets Libby. Yeah. Me too. I love it. Libby, thank you so much. This book was beautiful. Every minute I spent reading it was a joy, really a joy, and I I just loved it. I really did. I finished it and I, like, held it like this and then fell asleep, which is the best the best way to That's finish that's an honor to hear, so thank you so much for for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.