Belle Burden, STRANGERS: A Memoir of Marriage

[1:25]Zibby Owens: This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest, best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zippymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram zippy owens. Belle Burden is the author of A Memoir of Marriage. This is my Zippy's book club pick, by the way, and I am obsessed with this book. You have to read it. Belle Burden holds a BA from Harvard College and a law degree from the New York University School of Law. Her writing has appeared in the New York Times. She lives with her children in New York City. This is her first book. Welcome, Belle. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked to talk about Strangers, a Memoir of Marriage, which, as you know, I am completely obsessed with in every way.

[2:39]Belle Burden: Thank you so much for having me, Zippy. I'm really thrilled to be here. It's my first one, so I'm glad you.

[2:46]Zibby Owens: I feel like publicists put me first because I'm just, like, so excited and happy and, like And kind. No. There are no trick questions. I just, like, like to boost. So anyway,

[2:57]Belle Burden: okay. Tell listeners a little bit about your book. My book, Strangers, a Memoir of Marriage, is about the sudden end of my marriage in 2020. I believed I was very happily married. I was very much in love with my husband. We had a very stable and calm life together. During the second week of COVID lockdown, we had moved to Martha's Vineyard where we have a house. And I got a phone call from a man while I was mopping the floor, saying that his wife was having an affair with my husband. I was completely shocked. That night, I believed that we would get through it somehow. I didn't know how, but that we would get through it. But by the next morning, he had packed a bag and said he wanted a divorce, gotten his jeep, and left the island. And then really became someone I did not recognize at all and gave me no information about why he was leaving, what he was unhappy about. And I had to really try and figure it out on my own or figure out how to move forward without information. And the book is about that aftermath and how I put my life back together. It's also about our love story, really, about how we met and fell in love and the many years we had as a family that were very happy and also exploring my own family legacy that ties in because there's a history of infidelity in my family, which I thought I was avoiding but seemed to have replicated. So it's about all of those things. Oh my gosh. Why put this painful personal story out there? Well, it's actually really contrary to my personality to to put this out there. I'm actually very shy and very private, and my family generally does not talk about personal matters publicly. But this started when I wrote a modern love piece, and I I wrote it not thinking it would get published. I just have always loved the column. And I felt this need to record on paper what had happened because in the absence of information from my ex husband and when this happens, there are often other narratives floating around. And so I just really wanted to write it. And I used The Modern Love word count and format, and then I submitted it not thinking it would ever get published. And then another piece of that is that I have always loved, since I was a teenager, the art of writing and and putting words together and creating something. So I was doing all of those things, and it's I I felt like yes. It's very embarrassing, and humiliating to put this out into the world that my husband left me and rejected me. But I have always felt like there was a greater purpose to it and that maybe it would help people for me to speak out about it. It doesn't read as embarrassing or humiliating at all. I mean, if anything, and you really show us

[5:54]Zibby Owens: that this sort of break that your husband seemed to have with with what was your reality, like this cognitive, I don't know, distortions. There's some sort of mental something going on, not not diagnosable. Just like you take us through that in a way that's like, how can this man have done this? Like, how did this line in the sand just get drawn like that? And, you know, how does somebody you feel like you know so well become someone you suddenly don't? And I feel like that is something that so many people wrestle with in one way or another with one person in their lives or another. And it it's empowering to hear your side of it because it's not that you did anything wrong. Right? It's anyway, how do how do you process all of that?

[6:43]Belle Burden: Well, I think the one piece of information he did give me was that he felt like a switch went off for And that had happened at other points in his life. And that's really what it felt like. It felt like something changed in his constitution, in his brain, in his being Yep. That made him decide that this part of his life was over. And in deciding that, it just was a complete shedding Mhmm. Which is, you know, I think he's built differently than I am. I could not have that kind of switch, I don't think. But that's that's really where I land. It's just something really changed for him. Yep. And in the book, I I explore, you know, what he may have found lacking in me and, you know, other reasons that he may have decided to leave. But that's what it feels like. It really feels like a switch went off, and there was no going back. But isn't that just terrifying to think that anyone you love and trust could one day flip a switch and just

[7:48]Zibby Owens: abandon everything? Like like, how do we go through life if we don't without holding on to some sense of continuity and consistency and stability and knowing that this could happen to James, it could happen to anyone? Like, how do how do we then just, like, you know, make a cup of coffee and go on with the day? It really is frightening.

[8:09]Belle Burden: It really is scary. And I think I I think my experience is unusual. I don't think, you know, other married people have to really worry about this. I think it's a very unusual experience, but it can happen. And you and in different ways, different crises, different things that can turn your life upside down overnight. And then it's really just a matter of how you go on from there. But it's still it's still chilling to me because I trusted him so much and really believed in our connection, intimacy. And and, you know, even the day before, he was bringing me a cocktail by the fire and making dinner, and it just went from very normal to very not normal.

[8:52]Zibby Owens: Well, I'm really sorry that this happened to you. I I mean, seriously, this is so, as you said, unusual, but unfortunate as well. Like, just that you had to go through it and that you share in such detail your brain sort of trying to wrestle with what happened and make sense of it all and parent and parent and COVID. I mean, this is, the perfect storm of terrible times here, and you delicately and beautifully just, like, take us through this this time. Were you keeping were you writing your way through it at the time? Is this all in retrospect? Like, how did you tap into this and include so much sort of detail and and

[9:34]Belle Burden: all of that? First, I'll just say it it was awful, but there are many worse things that people go through, so I do have that perspective. And I also believe, you know, I I have a different life now, and I I like my life now a lot. So I think, you know, new doors can open when other other ones close. But I I was not writing at the time. I was completely wrecked, unable to get out of bed, just really devastated. I did not start writing until '20 gosh, 2022 when I wanted to put this story down on the page, and then I started writing about different things in my life, the death of my father, different things. So I did I had to go back and really reconstruct what had happened when I when I started writing the book. And I looked at texts. I looked at, you know, photographs. And but I I could remember. I could recall those feelings. So it wasn't easy to write, but it was all in there.

[10:39]Zibby Owens: You have a scene, you know, towards the end. Can I do you mind if I read a passage or two? It's a scene later when you are trying to sort of process everything with James. And you said to him, you said, why are you doing this to me? He replied, I'm not doing anything to you. I said, you left us. You never told me why. His voice was calm, cold. I didn't leave you. I changed residences. I felt myself spin, losing control. You did leave. You told me you were leaving me. You told me you were continuing your affair. You left me alone to take care of the girls, to deal with COVID by myself. I sobbed through my words as I did when he first left when I begged for some explanation. He said in a sing song voice like a taunting child, boo hoo, poor Belle, always the victim. He had never spoken to me like this before. He had never mocked me. Then loud and pointed, you were in a nice house on Martha's Vineyard. You had everything you needed. I paid my share of the bills. What was so hard about that? He was right. I had everything I needed. I was more privileged than 99% of the world. The same set of facts had been recast in his hands, molded again into a different narrative. In his version, I was lucky. In his version, he hadn't done anything wrong. In his version, he had never left. Was he right? Had I made it all up? Had I spun a story that was false, that unfairly made me the victim, and him the villain?

[12:00]Belle Burden: Wow. That happened, and it was astonishing to me that something that felt so clear to me about what had happened, he could rewrite it and view it entirely differently. And in that scene, you you can feel how he had really changed as a person because he had he had never talked to me like that. He was a very kind and sweet person. So it was like this different side of him had come out. And, you know, I did in my narrative, he I do become the victim, and it's hard it's hard I was very conscious in writing the book to not really go even further into that place and try and be more factual about what happened.

[12:48]Zibby Owens: Well, well, you can just feel it and see it, and we're just with you on the phone. I mean, it's anyway, thank you for showing us what what happened so we could sort of be there with you. I mean, I feel like in reading this book, you feel like it happens to you. I mean, it's so vivid and immersive. You do talk about a big loss that James had with his with Mark. Can you talk a little bit about that? And do you feel like linking past traumas explains anything? Is it talk a little bit about that and putting it in context.

[13:21]Belle Burden: Well, I think one thing that was helpful to me in in processing all of this is to think of him as a complete person and to think about things that had happened to him in his childhood and as an adult. And a big one of those was losing his best friend suddenly and in a horrifying way to a drug overdose. Their friendship was very special, very intense. I loved Mark too. And I think Mark provided him a sense of adventure and, I think I say this, pleasure in the unpredictable. And it was a devastating loss for him. I did not think it would kind of come back in this way, but I I think it is a part of it in some way because I think it may have made him feel his mortality more and and that he wanted to have a different part of his life at this age. Wow.

[14:16]Zibby Owens: And you talk in the book also about your family history, which you alluded to earlier. And at one point, you say hold on. You say, in in the living room each night, as I worked on my puzzle with my grandmother's ghost sitting calmly beside me, I'd wonder, what is it about the women in my family that attracts this kind of betrayal? Will the same thing happen to my girls? Did James have his own legacy of men behaving badly, walking out without explanation, of women stoically enduring it? Did we both have another legacy of adults remaining silent, never explaining what had happened, pushing it underground into the subconscious lives of the next generations, creating a destiny where the bad thing could be and would be repeated?

[14:59]Belle Burden: Tell me more about that. I really did struggle with that during that time, and I thought a lot about it since then. My grandmother, there are stories that have attached to her about her husband, her second husband, being unfaithful. We don't have proof that that was true, but it's something that we've grown to accept, and we loved him very much. And then my mother also had a history of unfaithful men in her second marriage and then in a long relationship she had during the last couple of decades. And my mother and my grandmother are fantastic women. They're very strong. They were very accomplished in different spheres, but they were attracted to and attracted by men who were superstars and big personalities, and they were you know, there was infidelity. And why did that happen? Did they choose that? Did they tolerate it? And I really thought I was avoiding that. I really did not want that in my life. So I chose someone who I believe was very steady and consistent. He was a lawyer at the same law firm. He was very calm and mild mannered and polite. He never yelled. And I just did not think that would happen to me, and it happened to me in just this spectacular fashion where he, which was even worse than my mother and my grandmother because their partners did not leave, did not wanna leave, wanted to keep the relationship going, begged for forgiveness and mine did not. So I think there there is something, especially when it's not talked about, that that stays in families and often gets repeated. And I think that's part of why I wanted to write the book. Think in speaking it and writing it, maybe you can stop that legacy.

[16:55]Zibby Owens: Wow. Beautiful. This this may feel more minor, but not really one consequence of this betrayal in the time and place that it happened during COVID on Martha's Vineyard in this sort of rarified small community is that you were also sort of outcast in a way from some of those circles as well and being a single woman and access to clubs and all of that, which may feel minor, but it's actually huge because it's your, like, support network and your life there, and it is an effect of divorce that happens quite often. It's like you're not only losing your your primary relationship, but also your support network and all that. Talk a little bit about that. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zibby for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[19:55]Belle Burden: Yes. It was it was interesting to go through this on Martha's Vineyard. We arrived in March, and then as the summer started, people started coming back to this small area where where we live, where there is a private club. It's like a tennis club, and it's a very married place. I had only known of a few people who were divorced. And to navigate that as a newly, not just single woman, not just divorced woman, but someone who was left by their husband was a strange thing and a challenging thing. And I do write about the difficult parts of that, which I think people focus on, but there was also so much kindness. It was it's a really loving, wonderful community too, and people really took care of me. I had one friend who had me over to dinner every week and just fed me and took care of me. I people walking with me and just checking in all the time. So it's there was so much kindness, but there were a few moments that felt very alienating and sexist as I look back on it, and that really devastated me in terms of, you know, recasting my story in a different way, in terms of saying that maybe I should not continue to be a member, And those were very painful. And some may look back at that and think, oh, she was very hurt. She's, you know, looking at it through different glasses. But these things happened. And I think I'm hoping it might be helpful for people to read about it and think about how they react to someone who's going through something like that. I talk about people moving towards me and people moving away from me, and there were just wonderful people who really moved towards me. I talk about that one man who just gets off his bike and comes to me and says, I'm so sorry that this happened. And what I've learned from that is when I have people in my life who are going through something difficult, the answer now is always to move towards them and to try and,

[21:59]Zibby Owens: you know, be upfront about it and just say, I'm sorry you're going through this. Which is such a good lesson. I mean, nobody's ever like, oh, I wish that person hadn't been so nice to me. When does that happen? Right? Or

[22:12]Belle Burden: I wish they hadn't said anything about it. It you know, when you're I think in general,

[22:18]Zibby Owens: even with someone who you perceive as private, it's just better to say something. Yeah. Because it's when everyone knows you're thinking it anyway, then it's just, like, weird. Right? Yes. How is James and the book like, how are you handling this? Does he know this book is coming? He must, obviously. Like, was it legally okay to write all this stuff? Like, did you get does he care? Like, just talk about that. How do you feel that this is out there?

[22:44]Belle Burden: So I've been through four very rigorous legal reviews, both in The US and abroad, and I feel very comfortable with the book legally. Mhmm. I did have to I had to make choices about what to include and what not to include, which felt complicated at times. I don't really know because we don't communicate in that way, but I know that he has read it, which was a relief to get past that. And beyond that, I I I I don't think he's happy about it, but I don't know anything in detail beyond that. Okay.

[23:18]Zibby Owens: Well, at least it's the worst may be over. I don't know.

[23:23]Belle Burden: And I I I do think this might be naive, but I do think there are parts of it that I think are helpful to him and to my kids, which are, you know, I'd really try and reconstruct our life as a family that were really happy years, the years that he was a wonderful father. And I think when marriages end the way mine did, you focus people focus only on the ending. You focus only on the I mean, myself, I only focus on the ending. And there was so much that came before that I wanted to bring back into the story. Yeah. Well, you captured all of that really,

[24:05]Zibby Owens: really beautifully. With your daughters, how I I think a lot of people go through when they go through traumatic events of their own, the question is how how to parent your way through it, and how will this affect the kids and all of that. Can you talk a little bit about that? And and I know you go in detail in the book, which I loved, but just talk a little about about that. You know, I'm a child of divorce,

[24:30]Belle Burden: and I'm very conscious of not wanting to speak badly about their dad, which may feel ironic because I've written a a whole book about this, but I really try to be careful about that because I hated it when that happened in my life. But I also think kids need to have their reality acknowledged and not pretend that something is normal when it's not normal. So I really try to say, like, example, because he did not want to create a a, you know, a place where they could spend the night. And I say, your dad, I don't know why, but he's not able to create a home for you right now. And that to me is better than saying, everything's fine. What do you mean? Like, there's nothing strange about this when they have friends who go back and forth. And and so I I try and walk that line, but it's tricky. It's it's still tricky to do that, to try and be compassionate and and not complaining, but to also make sure that they I don't know, that they they feel like their reality is acknowledged.

[25:40]Zibby Owens: That makes sense. Your writing style is beautiful, and I just, you know, ate it all up. What are some books that have been influential for you or that you love or have loved lately or, like, a couple books on your shelf that you're like, oh, if only I I could write like them or

[25:59]Belle Burden: I want my memoir to be like this one. I'm so glad you asked that. I'm a big reader, and I love your podcast for that reason. I learned about different books from you. But I love I wanted this to not be a long book. I wanted it to be a book that you could read in one sitting where you get totally absorbed in it. I love Elizabeth Strout, so I thought a lot about her. I loved the recent Lily King same feeling. I just devoured it, and I love her writing style. So I would say both of those were kind of guiding lights, both those writers. And I loved all of Lily's books. And I really like to write in a a more spare way. So they were inspiring in that way too. Have you connected with Lily King at all? No. I have not. I would I would be starstruck if I if I did. Oh, I I feel like I wanna connect you. The the two of you in conversation would be amazing.

[27:01]Zibby Owens: I wanna somehow make that happen. That would be Wonderful. That would be amazing. Wonderful for me. Oh my gosh. Now that you have gotten this writing bug and realized, you know, it's you're good at this and all of that, like, what next? Do you wanna keep writing? Is this

[27:17]Belle Burden: do you wanna try fiction? Like, what's coming up for you? The most exciting part of this for me is that I hope that I can now have a life as a writer. Like, I just that's just so thrilling to me and exciting to me that I can spend my days doing that. I still work on some nonfiction short pieces, but I don't wanna write another memoir. I think one is enough for me. So I am turning to fiction, and I find it a lot harder. Yeah. But it's what I loved to do when I was a teenager, so I'm I'm really trying, and we'll see where that leads.

[27:51]Zibby Owens: That's great. Yeah. It's hard. I mean, it's a skill. Right? You have to, like, teach yourself how to do it. And And with memoir, it actually happened, so you have something to follow. But fiction's, you know, a lot harder. I I agree. Any advice to an aspiring author?

[28:08]Belle Burden: Oh, just really go for it. I had no idea that this would happen, and I'm 56 years old, so it is truly never too late. And, just write every day. That is at at whatever time of day works for you. For me, it's very, very early in the morning, but just write something every single day and then just submit it because you just, you know, you just don't know. And also, if you submit to modern love, be patient. It took nine months for me to hear back.

[28:37]Zibby Owens: Wow. And now that I heard you're 56, tell me your secret to skincare here because you look amazing. I'm so much younger than that.

[28:44]Belle Burden: There's I do absolutely nothing. So it's it's a miracle that you were saying that because there's there's no secret. There's a little moisturizer,

[28:53]Zibby Owens: and that is about it. Oh my gosh. Okay. Very jealous. And oh my god. No. Seriously. Look at you. Oh my god. Thank you so much. Thank you for this beautiful book. I'm so excited to talk more about it at book club and all of that, and I am just I just loved it, and I know other people are gonna just love it. And I'm so excited that it's out there, and, yeah, I'm a huge fan. Thank you so much, Sibby. This is a perfect way to start. I really appreciate it. No problem. Alright. Well, I hope to see you in real life. Me too. Okay. Alright. Take care. Alright. Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.