Drew Daywalt, GOODNIGHT, CRAYONS

[1:31]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest, best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zippymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram zippy owens. Drew DeWalt is the author of Good Night Crans. Drew was amazed at the age of seven while sitting in the movie theater watching the credits roll on the original Star Wars to see for the first time that people actually made movies. They weren't just found items like mountains or rivers or clouds. That night, at story time with his mom, Charlene, he noticed there were names of people on the front of books too. That's when he learned about authors and writers, and he never looked back. Drew is the number one New York Times bestselling author of the day the Krans quit all of its sequels and many other titles, including The Legend of Rock Paper Scissors, Little Freddy Two Pants, and the middle grade novel They Call Me No Sam, illustrated by Mike Lowry. Drew lives in California with his wife, two kids, two dogs, two goldfish, a cat, and some local raccoons who like pizza crusts. Welcome, Drew. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zibby to talk about all of your amazing books, including Goodnight Crayons, which I have in my hand here. Congratulations.

[3:13]Drew Daywalt: Thank you. Yeah. That's the newest one. Newest one. Fresh baked right out of the oven.

[3:18]Zibby Owens: Amazing. This crayon series is so amazing. I've been reading them to my kids forever. I have four kids, and it just it doesn't get old. Like, you keep reinventing. You keep releasing.

[3:29]Drew Daywalt: Where did this whole series come from? How did you think of it? How did you partner up with Oliver Jeffers? All of that stuff. Oh my goodness. Well, settle in, everybody. Okay. There we go. I'm not gonna do anything else the rest of this episode. So Oh, yeah. You just made it real easy. You asked the that's the million dollar question. It's quite a story, and it's it's really the story of my life, frankly. What led me to this? Well, I had a movie tank. Before I wrote children's books, I was and sort of still am a writer director in Hollywood. I had a movie that Lawrence Bender and Quentin Tarantino's company, A Band Apart, had championed, and they wanted me to direct it. So I wrote it, and I directed it. And we had some young stars. This is around 2002, 2001. And I did the movie, and it came out, and it was not what we all wanted. It was my first Was the movie not what you wanted, or the response wasn't what you wanted or both? Little Beach. Little Beach. It was a little bit of a feathered fish, the movie. It was called Stark Raving Mad. Came out in 2002 to zero fanfare. It went straight to video. Back when there was no streaming, so they couldn't sort of you know, they used to now they can hide a movie like, oh, we've made it for streaming. Look at it. There it goes. But back then, was either theaters or video, and it went this one went straight to video, and that that wasn't a good thing. The process was fun. The people were lovely. There was a lot of cooks in the kitchen, as is usual, with a Hollywood studio film. And I was a first time director, and I I thought everybody's ideas were great. So everything went in the pot. So we had you know, it was like it was a garlic soup, and it was then we threw in some hot fudge and some ketchup and some mayo and a cantaloupe. There, look. Here we are. Isn't it delicious? So the movie did not do well, and I was like, uh-oh. I And was frustrated. I had a year of the phone stopped ringing because I was a script doctor and I was fixing I was working all the time. And then the phone stopped ringing. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to write that children's book I always wanted to write. Had because I had gone to Emerson College in Boston in the nineties, and my teacher there was Jack Gantos. I don't know if you know him as Jack, but he wrote Lost in Norvel, and he got the Newbery Award years ago. But before he was Mr. I won a Newbery, he was just Jack Antos, the cool teacher at Emerson. And he had told me when I graduated, he said, so what are you doing with this degree? Because I had creative writing, but majors in cinema and screenwriting. And then the other half was children's literature, and he taught the children's literature part. And he says, so what are you doing after you graduate? And said, oh, I'm going to Hollywood. I wanna I wanna be Quentin Tarantino when I grow up. And he's like, well, you're not. And I was like, woah. Because I had driven I had driven him teacher? I had driven him crazy by taking his class over and over again for creative writing for kids and children's literature and this, that, the other. And I even audited them because I wanted to take them again. And I drove him crazy. And he's like, well, you're not. He said, you need to go to New York. You need to go into publishing. He's like, because you're not Tarantino, but maybe you're Roald Dahl. And it was one of the nicest things anyone's ever said. And I was 22 at the time many years ago, and I was like, you know, I know better than this guy. I And went to Hollywood. Ten years after that, my movie tanks. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna write that children's book. So I wrote this. I sat down in my writing studio, and I found a box of crayons literally sitting on my desk that had been from my childhood. You know how they're ubiquitous. They end up in all kinds of crazy places, in car seats and under the couch. I had a box, and it was not just a new box. And I didn't have any children yet, so I had no reason as a grown man in his thirties to have a box of crayons on his desk. But there, it's like next to my pen holder and all the stuff you have on your desk. And I was like, obviously, this has meant something to me. It's followed me around. Took it to college. And now it's in my house, and I'm 30. And so I dumped the crayons out on the desk that night. And they looked exactly like they do in the book. Peach was naked, and I had pulled the wrapper off at some point for some reason. Blue was really little because I used it to death when I was a kid. Pink crayon was untouched because when I was a little boy, that was back in the '70s and '80s. Pink was for girls. I've since learned my lesson. So that was reflective of that. And what I didn't know is that being my first children's book, it yanked me out of Hollywood with whiplash fashion. And I kind of haven't looked back. Mean, I've been in the children's literature world and children. I feel like I got knocked back by Hollywood, right? You pushed back on your back. But I feel like millions of tiny little hands caught me. And that was the kids, and they were like, well, we'll take you. We'll do this. And that's I haven't looked back. So

[7:53]Zibby Owens: That's amazing. I know it's a long answer. Sorry. But I love long are you kidding? I love long answers. That's amazing. Was it literally the same

[8:01]Drew Daywalt: box of crayons, though, that like, how was that not thrown away? I don't know. I don't know. It was weird. Like, it's you know, there are people in my life who think that it's supernatural, and I'm just sort of like, well, okay. Obviously, it was sentimental to me because I loved my crayons when I was a kid. Mhmm. I wasn't it was basically crayons Star Wars and Dungeons and Dragons, you know, when I was little. But, you know, I had kept some things. Like, I have, like, a race car, like a matchbox car from when I was little, and it was just, like, sort of ended up on my desk, you know. It's like I it was just one of those tokens, and it was it happened to be in the right place at the right time. I still have the box, by the way. Kept it. And that now that's twenty two years ago, twenty three years ago, and I still have that box of crayons. And now it's even now it's even more special to me because it's it was part of the redirection. Was a it was a it was a signpost. You know? Wow. Is it right there? Can you hold it up? Oh, I don't have it here. I don't have it here. I should I think I should have. You know what? I need to learn to have it handy because I like, in a special drawer upstairs with all my most precious objects. I have someone who told me that Winnie the Pooh, the actual stuffed animals, are at the Smithsonian. I thought they at the New York Public Library. They might be now. They I know they travel. They move they move around. Yeah. Yeah. That was that was, like so my sort of, I guess, unrealistic fantasy would be to have, like, the crayons end up at the Smithsonian. That would be funny. That

[9:14]Zibby Owens: would be amazing.

[9:15]Drew Daywalt: Oh my gosh. Something to say about that. They'd like, no. That's ours.

[9:19]Zibby Owens: So it just goes to show, like, the universe pushes us I mean, this sounds so woo woo, but, like, we can want what we want so much, and yet it doesn't mean we're gonna get that. Like, the universe, like, has its way and just Yeah. Yeah. Find your place.

[9:34]Drew Daywalt: Yeah. I mean, whether you believe in coincidence or not, I do not. I believe in fate. I think the universe is woo woo. That's what I'm learning. I was a pretty pragmatic, you know, agnostic type. And, you know, the more I see in life, the older I get, the more I go, I

[9:47]Zibby Owens: don't know, man. There's some meaning to all of this. There's definitely meaning to all of this. Me too. So do you ever are you ever just, like, sad about Hollywood? I mean, you bring it up here a lot. Most people would be like, whatever. Why was he even trying to do that? Like, look what he's done. Yeah. But to you, it still feels like a it sounds like it still feels like a a fresh wound almost.

[10:08]Drew Daywalt: Well, you know, maybe it was because you know? But what was funny is in 2013 when crayons came out, again, took ten years to publish it from sitting down that in that dark and stormy night and typing away at my computer with the crayons. The book came out. It debuted on the New York Times list at number two, and it quickly went up to one in, I think, it's either, like, four hundred weeks or something off and on. But that that that same week, I get a phone call. This is in 2013. And it's an older gentleman. He goes, is this Drew Daywal? And I said, yeah. I didn't know who it was. And he goes, I told you so, idiot. It was Jack Cantos calling from twenty years in the past. No. Yes. It was the greatest, like, you know, teasing I've ever gotten in my life. He's like, I told you so, and I'm so proud of you. And I was like, oh my god, Jack. I'm like, thanks for the best advice I never took. Hollywood's tough, and a lot of the stories about it are true. It's brutal town, and it's a very tight pyramid. The people at the top, you see them all over social media and TV and the news. But it's a very small percentage of the thousands of kids who pour into this town every year with hopes and dreams to be actors and singers and directors and writers. And I did pretty well. I was actually pretty happy with the trip. The trajectory was good, but I just got yoinked out of it. And I was like, okay. Because, you know, I worked with like, my first film was with Sean Levy, and he has gone on he did Night at the Museum, you know, the director, and he's he did Stranger Things. He's he just did Deadpool, and now he's gonna he's doing the next Star Wars movie. I was in a writing group with Christopher Nolan back when he was his Chris back in the '80s, and he did this weird movie backwards called Memento. And we remember when it was just a script, and there was one studio that had told him, you need to rewrite this so that it's not backwards. The whole point of the movie is you're telling this story behind Ben, you know, in reverse. And I remember him coming to group and asking us what we thought. And we're like, that's crazy. Keep it the way it is. So I have had really good experiences too and seen some of my friends and my peers really excel. And it's been fun to I feel like I got sort of sideswiped and knocked out of a lane, but into another lane and then won that race. You know what I So I have no complaints. And my first school visit, I had a librarian call me and said this is in 2014 or 'thirteen. And she said, do you do school visits? And I was like, what's that? I didn't know what that was. She's like, well, it's where the author comes to the school and talks to the kids. I'm like, why? Because I was like a martini swilling Hollywoodite. And I wasn't a dad yet, so I was sort of in a different space. I was like, yeah. I guess I'll come. What are they what are they gonna get out of me? And she and I'm like she's like, well, do you have anything that you'd like to talk to? I'm like, well, I got this box of crayons. And then she was like, oh my god. Yes. Bring that. So I did the event, and I was really nervous about speaking in front of kids. Mhmm. And she said, you know, just come in and talk to them like they're your own. Because mine's were at this point, my kids were little in the storyline. And I did I read the story, and I did a q and a with and this little kindergartener boy, I'll never forget him, He was sitting in the front. It was like the storytime rug, and I'm doing my thing. And at the end, it was like, and the end. And I closed the book, and everybody clapped. And he jumps up, and he pops on my lap before anyone can do anything or stop him. And he kissed me on the cheek. And he says, I love you, mister Daywalt. I'm glad you decided to be a writer. I'm like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm in. You know? I never no one in Hollywood ever did that. You know? So that was that was a real that was a real wake up call for me. So have I looked back? You know, occasionally go, it might be fun to do something, but I would wanna do something in the kids' space in Hollywood. But mostly, I am perfectly content with author visits, school visits, you know, writing at my little writing chair and hanging out with my dog. You know? Oh my gosh. I love that story so much. It's amazing.

[13:57]Zibby Owens: So you must have analyzed, like, what is it about the series that made it take off in the way like, why is it resonating so much? What are your thoughts on that? Oh, I got no clue. I I leave that for Well,

[14:09]Drew Daywalt: you know, it's like it's like self analysis. I did I have had people come at me and say, like, especially there was a very gifted editor once who came at me and said she's like, I think I figured you out. And I was like, wow. Good. Because I I would love to hear that because I haven't. And she said, between books like the Crayons books and Sleepy the Goodnight Buddy, which is about a lovey and then Rock, Love that Paper, Scissors, which is about the hand game, she says, you're giving voice to the voiceless. I was like, oh, wow. I think you might be right. Because I was the youngest of six. And there was a big distance between me and them. There's a ten year gap. There's all of them in a cluster, and then ten years, and then baby Drew. So I spent a lot of my childhood being told, no, you're too little for that. No, you can't get on your brother's motorcycle. They were 18, and I was eight. And I was like, I wanted to be on the motorcycle too. No, you can't go with them. No, you can't do it. And then brothers and sisters stuff, shut up and sit down. I felt squelched a little because the youngest always does. Even though they also are the baby and they get spoiled, the other side of that coin is, well, you get told you can't go along because you're too young for everything. And I feel like that must have obviously stuck in my cross somewhere. I think that's true. I think I do try. And I do want to give voice to the voiceless, especially crayons. Because when I was writing that night, I thought, well, what would they think? I was trying to be empathetic. Know? Well, how would they feel about my coloring? Obviously, it's comedic. It's a comedic take, you know? Mhmm. And I think we're all Duncan in a way. Mhmm. But I was like, what would they think? I was like, oh, man. I colored outside the lines. I peeled the wrapper off. I was rotten in my crayons. But now that I'm looking at it through their lens, it's not only funny, but poignant. Because as characters, they had real strong wants. And I think children resonate with that. And I think children resonate with being told to sit down and be quiet, because it's a lot of I always laugh because as when they're toddlers or when they're little, we can't wait till they can walk and talk when they're little infants. But as soon as they walk and talk, we tell them to shut up and sit down. Yeah. So I think kids resonate with that. I think that's I think that's what it is. And there's also a universality to what I try to do with my books. You know? And I want kids to have access immediately to almost everything I write about, like rock, paper, scissors. You know? Almost any child can throw down with that. Crayons. No matter where you are, you can probably get your hands on crayons. And I want the things I do to be very sort of democratic and accessible to the children.

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[19:20]Zibby Owens: And so in all your visits and becoming the person you are sort of in the children's book world, like, how do you wanna use or how have you used that influence? I mean, it's a it's a weighty responsibility,

[19:32]Drew Daywalt: right, to be, like, the guy. It can be. It can be. You know, I think there are there are guys who are really good at it, you know, like Matt de la Pena and, you know, Lauren Long and, like, Christian Robinson. These guys are there's so many. There's so many. I I'm just naming this once off the top of my head. Katie Camilo. They can they're really good at the responsible, a grown up part. For me, I just want to make children laugh because I know that for me, books were an escape and a happy place. I know it's a cliche now, but it's true. You know? It's escapism at its best. And for me, some real happy places were sitting and watching my favorite movies and reading my favorite books. And the empathetic journey you take when you sympathize with a character and go on that you really are worried about them. I remember reading The Hobbit in sixth I was really worried about Bilbo. And I thought, wow, that's an amazing thing. So I think the responsibility I feel at this point is I want to just make them laugh. Because sometimes kids, we want to give them a lesson. But sometimes the lesson is let's just let them laugh. So escapism and joy. And then if I can sneak in empathy, that's the mission I want. And I'm a literacy advocate as well. I think, you know, there's you know, middle grade's really in trouble. Kids aren't reading enough. Down down eighty percent since the eighties. I don't know if you've seen that statistic.

[20:52]Zibby Owens: I mean, I'm kind of not surprised. I have two middle I have two middle schoolers and two high schoolers. Yeah. And even the difference between them with the rise in technology, I mean, it's it's huge. They have no attend you know, their attention is so much shorter. To sit down with anything is a big ask. So I'm not shocked by the number, but saddened.

[21:10]Drew Daywalt: Yeah. So I'm trying to get kids to read. You know? And Yep. For instance, my no sand books, I happen to have one right here. Imagine that. Amazing.

[21:19]Zibby Owens: Right? What a coincidence. What a coincidence. That's

[21:22]Drew Daywalt: like 10 to 20,000 words on the long end, but that's considered a novel now. If And you look at something I mean, that's a different end of the spectrum. But if you look at something like the original Percy Jackson, The Lightning of Babe, that's like 85, 86,000 words. And that's twenty years ago now, which is also hard to believe. But this is where we're at. There's shorter books for shorter attention spans because we're just trying to hook them back in and get them to read anything, even if it's heavily illustrated. That's, I think, one of the reasons Jeff Kinney and Dave Pilkey are doing so well. Heavily illustrated. They appeal to the reluctant reader. You know? And then we gotta get kids off the devices. And we're on them too. It's it's such a I know. I know. We're all addicted to the same thing all at once. It's crazy. How old are your kids? 16 and 22. My daughter's My daughter actually went to my alma mater. She's going to be a writer as well. Aw. Yeah. But she wants to write sort of magical realism and romantasy, and that's of her world. She's a gifted writer as well. I'm really proud of her. But my my kids weren't big on devices. I wasn't, like, crazy about discipline, about keeping them off necessarily, but I I was very strict about keeping them off social media. Mhmm. Because that was just that felt like a poisonous pit to me. It is a lot. And they read. They picked up books because they're like, oh, I gotta do something. Dad's not gonna, you know, let us on social media. So that was a lot of time. And my son's Abby's not so much a reader, but my son Reese is a he's a he reads more than any of us. It's like a novel a week with him. It's insane.

[22:55]Zibby Owens: Yeah. It's crazy. So there's hope. Some kids are reading.

[23:00]Drew Daywalt: Some kids are reading, and then they're gonna write. Yes. So I'm hoping that that's what that's the way that pans out. We just need the other people there to read what they write and keep it going. Exactly. Exactly. And that's I think, in some ways I feel like a gateway drug. You know what I mean? Because if I can get kids interested I know it's a really nice thing to put on a kid list. But you know what I mean? But it's true. Like if I can get the kids interested in laughing at something that's lighthearted and funny, and they go, wait a minute, I think I like books. At one point, I was a reluctant reader till I got the right book in my hand at the library and she got the book in my hand, and that was all she wrote. But if we can get kids to go, I don't know why I like books, even if it's something heavily illustrated or a graphic novel or a comic book. Because in the eighties, we were getting picked on by the older librarians who were like, that's not real literature. Instead of handing they're trying to get us to read Moby Dick, we're like, ugh, I wanna read about Batman. But now what we've all learned is that, no. That's good. They're reading about Batman. That's fine. It's the hero myth. It's Joseph Campbell. It's it's it's it's rock solid storytelling. But at least they're reading a book.

[24:05]Zibby Owens: So true. Oh my gosh. Well, what do you what do you have planned for these crayons going forward?

[24:11]Drew Daywalt: Well, it's funny. I just I'm just wrapping up a last edit on a book called Happy Birthday Crayons, which will I think it's gonna be 27. Coming down the pike, have the Crayons Book of Manners. So many of these little books. They're so fun to write. Initially, like, or eight years ago now, they were gonna just start producing these small books, these little guys. And they were just gonna be little spin offs. And there you go. Yeah. And they were just I think they're gonna have a copywriter do it and just gonna be very basic, this is the crayons counting book, one, two, and three, and, you know, that kind of thing. I was like, no. You know, do these. And my editor Jill, who's unbelievable, you know Jill, Santopolo, I told her, I was like, I'd like to do these myself. And she loved the idea. She's like, really? I was like, yeah. And my agent said the same. He's like, really? You want to do every little book? I'm like, yeah, because we're going build out the universe. And Jill and I have been like kids in a candy store on this because it's been so much fun because we are able to fully develop out the characters more than you can in one picture book. Because it's also it's already, you know, an ensemble. So you're already trying to fit an ensemble into, you know, 48 little pages with lots of illustrations. But then to have these little books, you know, you can feature one crayon or you can feature one character.

[25:24]Zibby Owens: And the the the response has been really good, so it's resonating. Know? Wow. FYI, I was a yellow crayon for Halloween at age five.

[25:32]Drew Daywalt: Nice.

[25:33]Zibby Owens: Just so you know. Curve. You were waiting for that. I I really was. I'm just wondering that now. How did that how did that happen? I have no idea. I had, like, a little little hat and everything with the

[25:43]Drew Daywalt: Oh, that's awesome. I think I was c three PO that year. Okay. Amazing. We would have matched. We've been in the same color family. It's okay. Yeah.

[25:51]Zibby Owens: But why has the crayons not become, like, a major film, you know, thing, like, with Wicked and all that? Like, why can't they have that mantle as well? They're on the way. They're on the way.

[26:04]Drew Daywalt: About ten years ago, I sold the rights to Crayons to Universal. And was one of my friends who was the head of Universal at the time. That's the bonus about getting old in Hollywood, but it's eventually you're the age of all the bosses and you know all the CEOs everywhere. If you just it's an atrophy game. So if you can just last long enough, you know. So he invites us in to pitch to do the movie at Universal Studios. And I've known him for years. And he knew I was a screenwriter too. And I brought a screenwriter in to do the movie. And he was like, why don't you you should be writing this. Why aren't you writing the screenplay? You're perfectly positioned to do it. I said, because I don't want to get fired off of this job. And everybody in the room laughed. It was a boardroom, right? And everybody in the boardroom laughed. And I was like, you know what? I don't want you to send in no offense to the 26 year old MBAs, but I don't want you to send in a 26 year old MBA to middle aged me and fire me, because that's kind of sometimes how it happens with the screenwriter, because I don't understand my characters. I said that would be the most heartbreaking thing that would happen and infuriating, and I wanna stay out of that. So I got a screenwriter, and I pointed to the to the gentleman I brought in as he had a great pitch. And I said, so if you're gonna fire somebody, fire him. And he's like, I'm right here. I'm in the room. And then my my friend who's the studio head was like he's like, I wouldn't fire you. I, you know, I wouldn't fire you. And I'm like, dude, you fired me in this room ten years ago. And he went, oh my god. And I remembered I mentioned the movie, and then he was like, I did, didn't I? I'm like, yeah, you did. He's like, well, would it make any difference if I had you autograph some books for my daughters this time around? And I was like, man, I wish you could go back in time to that day you fired me to my brokenhearted drive home. But so, anyway, Universal had it for a while, and then it went into turnaround. And then Sony Animation picked it up, and now it's being done at Sony Animation with my old friend, Sean Levy, who we started together in the business. And he went on to do all those big fancy pants movies, so he's now an 800 pound gorilla. And when they said, who do you want to produce? I was like, oh, oh, oh, Sean. And I contacted Sean, and we hadn't talked to each other for years. And when I went in the room with him to tell him that I'd like you to be the producer, he was like, I've been reading this book to my kids for ten years. I didn't know you wrote it. He's like, never looked at the name. I'm like, we should look at the credits. This is your business. But yeah, we started together and now the project is going forward. It's had lots of bumps in the road. That's another reason that it's more fun to be an author is when you're the author, you're the author. And when you're a screenwriter, you're like a ronin or a mercenary. And you come in, and you do your pass, and you get fired, and you take your money, you go cry on your bag of money. Sometimes it's a little bag, sometimes it's a big bag. But either way, you don't get that sense of fulfillment. But there's a great team involved over at Sony. It's the same people who did the Muppet movies. And I think some of the How to Train Your Dragon people are on this and Wow. You know, team that did Into the Spider Verse. So they're they're top notch, and they just handed in a script I have to read this week, actually, the latest set of writers. Awesome. New writers down the road. But eventually, yeah, eventually, it's gonna be a film. Yeah. That's exciting. Well, overdue, but very exciting nonetheless. And then well, yeah, the first the first generation to read it are now 20. That's crazy to me because it makes me feel a little bit whatever.

[29:17]Zibby Owens: Well, maybe when they have kids, you know, it'll be ready. Yeah. Exactly. I'm

[29:21]Drew Daywalt: hoping that it's evergreen and it everybody everybody still has crayons. Thank gosh. So

[29:26]Zibby Owens: 100%. Oh my gosh. Well, Drew, thank you so much. This has been such a delightful conversation, and thank you for the hours of fun that I've spent reading these books to my kids and so many other people. And just so nice to, you know, peer behind the curtain and hear how it all happened. Thank you. It's my my pleasure. Absolutely my pleasure. Thank you. Alright. Best of luck with everything. Thanks. Bye bye. Alright. Bye bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.