Elyce Arons, WE MIGHT JUST MAKE IT AFTER ALL: My Best Friendship with Kate Spade

[1:49]Zibby Owens: This is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram at zibby owens. Today, we have number seven of the 10 most popular downloaded episodes of Totally Booked in 2025. Enjoy. Elise Arons is the author of We Might Just Make It After All, My Best Friendship with Kate Spade. By the way, this is my book club pick, and we'll be meeting with Elise to talk about it. Elise Arons is the cofounder of Kate Spade and cofounder and CEO of Frances Valentine. Elise began her career in publicity and marketing before starting the multibillion dollar bag company Kate Spade alongside Katie, Katie's husband Andy, and Pamela Bell out of a downtown New York City apartment. She has been featured on Good Morning America and Today and in People, WWD, New York Magazine, and more. Elise lives in New York with her husband and three daughters. Welcome, Elise. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zippy to talk about We Might Just Make It, after all, my best friendship with Kate Spade. Congratulations. Thank you, and thanks for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. I've loved this book for so many reasons. The fact that it charted the whole business evolution of Kate Spade and your involvement with that. So it was kind of like a business memoir on the side, but while you track your friendship with Kate Spade and both of it, and it's really, like, your own coming of age story, I just loved it. It was like three books in one. So congrats. Oh, thank you so much. I thoroughly enjoyed

[3:57]Kate Spade: writing it, and it was so therapeutic at the same time just because there were so many stories. I mean, we'd known each other since we were 18 years old and we had been through so much being broke college kids together, moving to New York and, you know, making it here, also being broke and, you know, living in really strange apartments and scary neighborhoods and finally, you know, breaking through and starting our own business, which was kind of scary. But when you're young, you kind of feel like you don't have much to lose. And I had no responsibilities at that point. No children, no boyfriend, no husband. I didn't even have a houseplant at that point. So if if anything was gonna go wrong, best time for it than life to go wrong. So that's how we got started. But it was it was really, really wonderful writing the book. It was my husband and our other partner, Pamela, and I were sitting around talking one day. And we were laughing so hard about some of the stories that we'd all been through. And Andy said, you should write a book. And that's what spawned the whole thing. And I started working on it and started writing stories down. And, you know, there were so many that I would write them in notes in my phone and then I'd take down, jot down something and on a piece of paper and just finally started putting a lot together. Thank goodness, I'm not a hoarder, but I kept all of my calendars from forever in a tub in my basement. And it really helped me put a timeline together. Once I had a lot of stories, you know, you think you're going to remember everything. And when you're young, you really do. But it, you know, it I really needed those calendars to remind me of what happened in each year and what happened during certain seasons, etcetera. And so it was really helpful to have those and I don't know if I would have gotten it all right without them. You know, that's what gets lost when you don't have actual physical

[5:56]Zibby Owens: diaries anymore, journals and calendars and all that. I used to have that too. Would have, like, all my file effects and pages and everything. And I was like, oh, I can just go back and now it deletes. So yeah. I know. I know. It does make it so easy. And I I also had kept all my spiral notebooks from any meetings we ever took, anything. They're

[6:15]Kate Spade: not as neat and clean as I'd like them to be because, you know, you're scribbling in a meeting, but I was really glad I had them.

[6:22]Zibby Owens: Wow. Well, I should have begun by saying how sorry I am for your loss of such a dear old friend, someone who you shared such a rich history with and whose loss became so public as well as your own private pain. I was wondering if you could speak about that. The book is not about that. The book is not about the loss. The book and it touches on it sort of very lightly, if you will, and really focuses on the joy and what Kate Spade was like as a person and what you were like and what you are like and how the two of you interacted and your other partners and you grew the business. But, you know, when when when we when I heard about Kate Spade, I wrote a whole essay about it and, like, posted it because I didn't know her, but everybody felt that loss

[7:08]Kate Spade: so much. Can you talk about your own experience of that? Oh, well, I I you know, I miss her every day, and it was a devastating loss for for all of us. And, you know, the whole world knew her as the girl next door and best friend. And but rather than focusing on her death and how she died, the book really focuses on how she lived. And I want people to know the Katie that I knew, that feisty, funny person who it wasn't really her public persona, but she was truly the funniest person I'd ever met. And even David Spade, her brother-in-law, will say she is the funniest person I knew. He knows every comedian, but it was just I wanted to tell the stories of, you know, how we came of age and how we did all of this because there's so much richness and it really gives dimension to our relationship. And, you know, as you mentioned, the book is not I I wanted to show people how she lived and not not, you know, how she left us. So that's really where the book focuses. You know, as as far as, you know, the tragedy of that day, I don't think any of us will ever know. You know, I'm still searching myself for answers to that question, and I don't know that I'll ever find them. So I have to go on, and I have to focus on all the good things she was and keep her spirit alive. Well, after reading the book and, obviously, I have no

[8:38]Zibby Owens: I have no authority on this, but it seemed like this event was so unexpected, so not aligned that she had been making plans and just on the phone with her dad and all this. Like, I have a theory now having read it that this was some bizarre side effect of one of the new medications she was trying. This is this is my theory because it doesn't seem to make any sense. So I'm gonna just throw that out there because I don't know. Anyway, but back to her life. You were so scrappy in starting this business. Kate Spade was even a concept. It wasn't even her. Right? There was a moment where she was like, well, I don't have to be Kate Spade. Right? Right. And you're like, oh, no. No. Of Of course not. It's just gonna be the brand name. Next thing you know, that's who people think she is. So tell me even about that moment and the decision that you when you found a name for the company and all of that, you know, what it was like because she didn't necessarily come into this identity

[9:34]Kate Spade: so easily all the time. No. And Katie was the last person who wanted to be in the limelight or in in the public eye at all. I remember when we were in college in communications class, we all had to get up and give speeches, and we knew about it, you know, weeks in advance. And she was nervous from the day we got that assignment. How am I ever going to get up in front of the class? And so she was never the person who wanted to be Kate Spade. When it was Andy Spade who came up with the name, it was before they were married. And he really liked the way her name sounded with his last name, just calling her she always went by Katie, never Kate. So he just liked the way it all sounded, Kate Spade. And so and we all loved it. And the day that we were having the labels made up for the very first time, she looked at all of us. She goes, Don't expect me to be Kate Spade. And, you know, it wasn't to be. I think it really happened not necessarily after they got married, but which happened about a year and a half later, but really when she won the CFDA award for the very first time. And you become that person and she became the designer. So from that point on and and she was extremely nervous about having to give the acceptance speech if she'd won that night after being nominated.

[10:54]Zibby Owens: So Going back to what you just said, you write in the book about the moment where you're all sitting around and decide to put the labels on the outside and how you were all sewing them and it became this iconic important thing. And it was just like, oh, it just doesn't look done. There's something missing. Take us through that that moment again. And what if that hadn't happened? I don't know. Well, for those people who had some of our original Kate Spade bags, you know that there was no embellishment on them. They were very simple chic

[11:25]Kate Spade: bags and and all geometric shapes. And that was the whole beauty of them is that you could wear them with anything. You could take them anywhere. And we had no hardware like a lot of the European bags and and, you know, there weren't that many American handbag companies out there at the time. And so it was the night before the show and we had made these really cute men's shirting labels, almost feeling like Grover, but they weren't. And they were sewn right inside the bag, you know, right underneath where, you know, the lip of the bag is. And we were we had them all set up the night before, and Katie just looked at them all, you know, from a distance. And she's such a good editor. And she said, there's something missing. We need somewhere for the eye to go. And she'd had some, some of those labels just loose and she put one just right under the lip of the bag on the outside. And she said, that's it. So we taped them all up, looked at them, and then decided to sew them all on the night before the show. And it's not just sewing through fabric. It's sewing through lining, and then there's a, you know, filler in between and then the outside, which was very difficult on our fingers because we didn't have time to take them back to the sample maker and have them redone. So it was quite a story, but that one little thing to me in my mind that I remember just took it from a handbag company to a brand. Mhmm.

[12:52]Zibby Owens: So interesting. Well, you laud Katie throughout the book. You acknowledge her amazing eye and how you could have a million things up and she would say, yes. This is the one. And, like, that's the bag and that's the thing. And that she had this ability to just know. And that's not something you can teach. Right? But what is teachable is how you take that and pair it with the fundamentals to grow it into a brand. Plenty of people have a sense of what looks good or maybe in whatever area they're in. Maybe that film is gonna be good or that whatever. But that's not enough. So talk about how you managed to take the creativity of her and her eye and all of those strengths and then all the things you brought to the table, your other partners, and then and then how you grew it. And it wasn't always so such a straight line. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated, but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[16:32]Kate Spade: No. It wasn't. Well, I have to give credit to Andy Spade. It was his idea to start the handbag company in the first place. He and Katie called me one night and said, okay, we know what business we're going to have. And I, you know, quit my job. I worked there a few more months, quit my job and came home. And in the meantime, we met our fourth partner, Pamela Bell, who knew everything about production because she'd had her own jewelry company before. So of course we thought we knew we all knew everything. My experience had been in sales and marketing. Katie's had been an editor at a magazine. You know, Andy was this great branding guru and advertising and Pamela knew about production. And we thought, well, that's all we need. Not thinking about finance or, you know, a business plan, anything. We never had a business plan ever. And so thank goodness we didn't know what we didn't know because I don't know if we would have started it. It's sometimes great to go in blind to things. So at the beginning, was just Pamela and Katie and myself. Andy would eventually join us about three years later. But at the beginning, we were all doing everything. We were all working on the design. We were all, you know, going to the factory together and working on the production. And then we were all packing the bags for shipments and showing up at, you know, various trade shows. And we would get in the biggest fights about the smallest things. And it was really always about a different way to do the same thing. We all had the same end goal, but, you know, Pamela had her way. I had in mind. Katie was often acting as referee between us because we didn't get along at the beginning at all. Eventually, we did, and she's still one of my best friends. But we found after a period of time that it was better to each do what we were strongest at doing. So Katie did the design and it's funny because neither one of us had design degrees. We both graduated with journalism degrees from from college and she would make these cutouts out of kraft paper and tape them together and then pass them over to a pattern maker and it go back and forth for a little while and then we'd pick materials for it and eventually have samples made, which Pamela would work on with in product development and with, the pattern maker and the sample maker. And then once all of the bags were assembled, we'd sign up and do a show at the Javits Center, which was then called the Accessory Circuit. And I would be the I was the salesperson, and then I handled any press that came around. And at the beginning, there was none. But it quickly changed, and I was fielding tons of calls from magazines. Because, you know, it was really something new and different at the time. And it just caught on like wildfire. And honestly, you know, I sometimes wonder how we devoted so much time to it, but it was really a twenty four seven thing. And it was sort of like all of our first baby. And I loved being there. There was no other place I wanted to be but at the office working.

[19:25]Zibby Owens: I could tell you Not everybody can say that. That that I mean I'm still that way. I love what I do. Yeah. And that is such a gift. I mean, I'm I'm I I can feel the people, like, driving their cars listening to this and being like, oh, if only I felt like that. You know?

[19:41]Kate Spade: I haven't had the Sunday blues for a really long time. So I feel really fortunate.

[19:47]Zibby Owens: And just to fast forward to where you are now. So after Kate Spade and all that changed hands and everything, you took a break. And then you and Katie were just starting Frances Valentine, which you now run. Talk about this new iteration. And for those listening, by the way, I Elise's wall behind her is full of fabrics and feathers and bright colors and hot pinks. And it's just like you can't not be happy. Like, everything behind your head, I'm like, that would be a great wallpaper. Well, that would be a great wallpaper. I know. I think it would be great wallpaper all the time. Love That could be your next you should go into wallpaper, but whatever. Yeah, we should. We should. Right? Maybe eventually. Maybe eventually. Yes, exactly. Well, tell me tell me about the Fast4Ward and how Okay. That company is going because now I feel so invested in you and your work life and the business and how this is sort of an extension of the whole thing.

[20:41]Kate Spade: So we sold after owning Kate Spade for thirteen years, we sold it to Liz Claiborne, which is now, you know, the Tapestry business. And we took about we we had hadn't planned on getting back into business necessarily. We kinda thought, oh, yay. We never have to work again. But we both really missed work even though we were really involved with our children's schools. We started talking again because we really missed creating and we missed fashion. So we started talking through time, and Pamela and Andy had both started their own businesses again, but they were really happy for us because they knew we loved working together. So I would go up to Katie's apartment. We'd start working on things, and she she really loved accessories. She loved shoes and she loved handbags. So that's where we started. And we launched Frances Valentine. Andy said, if you don't get if you don't rent a space, she's never going to come to an office. And and, truly, he was so right. So we rented this space, at Bryant Park in 2014, started working on all the designs, and we launched it on Valentine's Day in 2016. And, you know, what we realized was so much had changed. I mean, eight years had gone by really since we'd left Kate Spade. And you think you know everything when you've run a business for so long, but the whole world had changed. Ecommerce had taken over. Influencers had become such a big part of business and taken over from editors. And we just had so much to learn about social media and, you know, retail and wholesale business is changing so much. So took us a couple of years to get there, but we we were just taking off. Everything was great, and then we tragically lost Katie. You know, it was really devastating because so many of the team here are, folks we'd worked with at Kate Spade too, and and everyone knew her very well, loved her. And, you know, we decided that we were going to keep the company going for Katie's legacy, for her family, for, you know, just for for the entire team here. So we kept doing accessories, because that was what Katie loved. But in in a tribute to Katie, I wanted to do something special for her. So we remade this caftan, this vintage caftan. She and I had been huge vintage shoppers since we were in high school and college together. And we remade her favorite caftan that she had worn on every vacation we'd ever taken together. And then, also one of the sweaters that we had bought together decades before that she wore all the time. And we made those as sort of a tribute to her. And, of course, they sold out immediately, and they sold out again and again. And people started asking us for all of the items that we were using to style our ad campaigns. And they were all our vintage pieces that we had collected together over the years. So, of course, I was like, well, we'll never make pants and we'll never make jackets and we'll now we make everything. But the, the apparel, you know, every time we bring a new piece in, I have to imagine Katie in it and loving it because she did love her vintage pieces. Difference with ours is they are vintage inspired, but they're made with more modern materials. We do our best to put pockets in every single thing we make and I want them to be comfortable but stylish at the same time. But the main feature of them, they have to bring joy to the wearer. So we use a lot of color and a lot of vintage prints And, you know, our our motto is we're what makes you happy. And that goes for our shoes, our handbags, and all the apparel pieces and the jewelry, which you know of already. Yes. The jewelry. They're just fun, beautiful pieces that are not trend driven. They're meant to last in your closet for the rest of your life. And we hope that you pass them down to your daughter or your granddaughter because the craftsmanship and the quality is really good like a vintage piece. So

[24:28]Zibby Owens: I could talk for hours. You probably have another question to ask. No. I love that. I was just talking to a group of women over the weekend about pockets. I know that sounds crazy, but just how amazing it is when you find when you get an item and you find out they have pockets and you're like, and they have pockets. It's like I mean, we did this really beautiful

[24:50]Kate Spade: body hugging, you know, kind of black tie sequin dress last year. I mean, it's gorgeous. You just everybody looks good in it. And the model who was having we were doing a photo shoot and the model went on she goes, oh my god. It's got pockets. She was so happy to have an evening gown with pockets in it. It was really fun. That is really fun. Oh my gosh. I love it.

[25:13]Zibby Owens: What do you think helped you through? Because there were so many times in this process where things were going wrong. Like, there was a flood in the office or, like, just the big things like that to the to the little things, to the interoffice squabbles, to the new management team coming in and not necessarily respecting your vision or not getting along so well. There were personal setbacks. Like, what do you think it is about you or you slash the team

[25:38]Kate Spade: that said, like, okay. We're just gonna get over this. Like, it's not even a question. You know, I think I think that might be partially because we were all from the Midwest and we didn't give up on things easily. I mean, when you move to New York from Kansas, you have a a slight chance of, you know, remaining here because it's, you know, it's tough when you don't know anybody and you move to a big city. And so I think us all sticking together and we all really depended on each other for that. I also think it was because our customers love the product so much, and it really kept us going. It it talking to all the customers all the time because at that time, we did a lot of events at retail stores and department stores. And just meeting them just brought you up. It just cheered you up so much because they would tell their own personal story about the bag that they bought or about the bag bought their daughter or their mother or their grandmother. And it it just it fueled what we did every day. And I think that's probably the main part of it. You know, it was great to have my business partners because we not only work together every day, but we socialize together and we spend our family time together. And for some people that's a recipe for disaster. Luckily for us, it worked out well, But we often found ourselves even during

[27:06]Zibby Owens: social time talking about work. Yeah. Your social life, by the way, you knew everybody. You were out at all the restaurants doing all the things. I was like, do I even have any friends after reading this book? Do know I mean? Like, there were always people in your apartment, and it's even your honeymoon. I mean, my gosh. So, I mean, you're obviously such a warm and friendly person and social and extroverted whatever. How do you keep friendship in your life when things are so busy?

[27:37]Kate Spade: You know, I love having people around, and luckily, I married someone who is the same way. My husband is from Boston originally, and he owned all the Gourmet Garage stores around town. So he, you know, he's always at his stores and he knew everybody and he loves the same things I do. He loves music. He loves animals. And, we were both very social people when we met. So we would have parties all the time. And, you know, back then it didn't have to be fancy. As long as you had a bar set up and good food and great music, you know, that's all you need and inviting interesting people. We were lucky enough to live downtown and it was a time when the art scene was flourishing downtown and Soho was still primarily artists and writers. And so we knew a lot of those people and they just made every party colorful and fun. So, and, you know, Katie and Andy were always there and they are two of the funniest people I've ever known in my life and always, you know, the hit of the party every single time. So I felt really lucky to have that time in my life and to, you know, to live in New York during that era. Not that it's not great now. It was gritty and a little tougher and rough around the edges back then, but I was glad to be able to have lived in New York then and also now. Amazing.

[28:59]Zibby Owens: Well, I feel like we should partner in some way because you have all these amazing I'm looking at this, I'm like, would be great book cover. I don't know. I would love to find some ways to collaborate in the book world and the fashion world and whatever. We'd love to. They're

[29:12]Kate Spade: the prints and so we could use them however we'd like. They really the collection up and I turn around and this is actually a working wall. It's not a wall that's been curated at all. I literally put things up there all the time when I find something fun. Might not have anything to do with apparel or handbags, but I just love this wall and I turn around and stare at it all the time. Really inspires you to do more things. Yeah. So it's fun. I gotta I have to change my background now after all this.

[29:46]Zibby Owens: You've got the appropriate background to call it. I know. I know. But yours is just so fun. I'm just jealous. You're color coded. I'm jealous. Envious. Of course, your book cover matches everything with the same you know, these perfect classic colors and everything. For the book itself, how do you feel about marketing the book as a product when you've spent so much time marketing fashion and accessories and whatever? Now you have a new thing to put on the market. Are you using sort of the same skills? How do you feel about

[30:14]Kate Spade: the writing process and all that being over? Was that the best part, the worst part? Well, you know, it's all new to me. This is this is a whole different world, and I feel so different than the fashion business and creating apparel and accessories. So and I love new projects. So this whole process, I had no idea how to start or what the middle was gonna look like or the end was gonna look like. And I know for myself, I thought we were finished long before we were because I was like, okay, we're done. And then there's all the edits that you have to do and there's all the fact checking. They're like, are you sure that restaurant was opened in that year? And I was like, yes. I looked in my calendars and that's where we were that night. So, there there was just so much of that. And I luckily was the was the person in our group that always had a camera in my handbag. I just I just always did. So I have all of these great photos of Katie and Andy and me in college. I shouldn't say great. They're blurry photos, but I have them. And, it means a lot to me that, it's it's kind of chronicled back in the days, before iPhones. But, I I really, really enjoyed the process, and I worked on the book a lot with my husband who was there during all of that time. And he added a lot of texture for me where I was lacking in some. And I was like, oh my God, yes, that's perfect. That's right. And I just, I adored writing this. It was really, really wonderful. My my wonderful daughters gave me lots of space and time, to do so last summer, so they were really helpful with it too. But I would do it all over again. It was I really thoroughly enjoyed the process and anybody who's thinking about it, I would suggest to start writing your stories down. Whatever is coming to your mind that you're thinking, that would be a good book. Just start writing your stories down because I can tend to forget things over time. And, when I was talking to our partner Pamela and Andy Spade, they really helped me remember some of the really funny stories. And some of them I wasn't even there for necessarily, but they're hysterical and they ended up in the book because they were such critical little pieces that that were just so descriptive in in in how we turned a corner on something. So it was really helpful. Talk to your friends about, you know, those kinds of stories because

[32:36]Zibby Owens: writing them down, was really important to me. Oh, and I loved meeting your husband too when you were here for the most anticipated. Yep. That's awesome. It's great to have such a partner, especially after I watched all of your relationships in the book and everything. So now I'm I'm so rooting for you. I'm so glad you had this happy ending. I got so lucky with him. I swear,

[32:56]Kate Spade: to find a single man, he was 39 years old and never been married, and he had a really cool apartment and a food, like a whole beautiful specialty food company. And he's cute and he's funny and he liked everything I liked. I was kinda like, is this real?

[33:11]Zibby Owens: Well, you deserve that and more. Your attitude and sort of joie de vivre and the whole thing, it's so additive. Right? You're just bringing joy to so many people in all the things you do, and I really, really enjoyed the book. It was moving, and the loss part was moving. The growth part was moving.

[33:30]Kate Spade: I really, really enjoyed it. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. That means a lot coming from you. Oh, thank you. Alright. Thank you, Elise. Alright. Have a good day. Have a good Bye.

[33:41]Zibby Owens: Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.