Kati Morton, WHY DO I KEEP DOING THIS?: Unlearn the Habits Keeping You Stuck and Unhappy

[1:48]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens. Katie Morton is the author of Why Do I Keep Doing This? Unlearn the habits keeping you stuck and unhappy. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist, best selling author, and highly sought after speaker in the mental health field. With a master's in clinical psychology from Pepperdine University, Katie has delivered impactful talks at prestigious events and platforms worldwide. She has been at the forefront of the mental health movement since 2011, sharing powerful videos that demystify mental health and replace stigmas with understanding. Her influential YouTube channel with over 1,500,000 subscribers and a 130,000,000 views has made her a prominent figure in translating complex mental health concepts into accessible language. An accomplished author of two bestselling books, Are You Okay? A Guide to Caring for Your Mental Health and Traumatized, Identify, Understand, and Cope with PTSD and Emotional Stress. Katie's dedication to dismantling barriers to mental health services and fostering a supportive global community is unmatched. Welcome, Katie. Thanks so much for coming on Totally Booked to talk about why do I keep doing this, unlearn the habits, keeping you stuck and unhappy. Congratulations. Thank you. Such a pleasure to be here. You too. I feel like I should start out by saying, like, you don't wanna hear this. You're not gonna wanna hear this. But you know, because you start so many of your things dispelling a myth that maybe we have in our heads about our behavior or our emotions or whatever, and you just, like, shred it right away. Talk a little bit about the book and about your whole mission of helping people in this way that you do. Yeah. My book, Why Do I Keep Doing This? Honestly was kind of just born out of conversation with my team

[4:11]Kati Morton: about what I was excited and interested in. Essentially, thought that it would be a book about eating disorders and hang with me. You're gonna be like, how did you get to this? There was a passage, there was some about eating disorders in there. Yep, there is a chunk. And the reason that it kind of took the shape that it did is because as I was talking, I work mainly with women, not really by design, but probably just because they're my people and I, you know, was fortunate that way. And we were chatting about it and they were like, Oh my God, me too. I do this. Yes, and I do that. And perfectionism, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we were just kind of all commiserating in the shared experience around the illusion of control. And as we kept talking, my literary agent, JL, who I love dearly was like, I don't know if it needs to be about eating disorders. And I was like, I know, I think it's bigger. I think it's like a broader stroke. And that's how, Why Do I Keep Doing This was born was essentially to shed a light on something we all deal with and manage or have the illusion of, and that is control in our lives and how when things feel really chaotic, what do we do to try to take that back? And so that's really where this book came from. It's probably my most personal book because instead of me, there is some prescriptive, my editor wanted a little more prescriptive stuff in there, But the idea was essentially for me just to be like, you're a Sherpa, like taking you along, like here's what I know, but I don't know everything. And like, here's what I'm still learning and here are my struggles so that people don't think that they're alone with it. And also realize that just because I'm a therapist doesn't mean that I always do better. Maybe I know better, maybe, know, and so that's where the book came to be. As far as me becoming an online content creator, which is still kind of funny to say, it was almost by accident. And I don't mean it that like, Oh, I just created a video, went viral. Not that kind of accident more that at the time my boyfriend now husband had been to a conference and he was like, just so enthralled, so excited about the prospect of YouTube as a whole. And then he came back from it and he was like, you talk about eating disorders all the time, you're working at this treatment center and you complain that no one understands, what if we just put some stuff out to educate people? And that's how it was born. And I mean, like many therapists out there, I initially was like, absolutely not. Isn't it cat videos and beauty? And like, don't do either of those things. But over time I came around to the idea and yeah, here we are fourteen years later.

[6:30]Zibby Owens: Oh my gosh. Wow. Getting in early on YouTube. That's very impressive.

[6:36]Kati Morton: It's just so funny though, because it comes with its own hangups, right? Like we couldn't make money off of it at all. That was never the goal. That's a funny thing people don't realize. It also, we were definitely the first one to the party. So when we would reach out for collaborations early on, people are like, Oh, my channel is not that serious. Or, Oh, I don't really talk about that stuff. You know, we definitely came into a lot of roadblocks that way. Interesting. Well, content on YouTube is so well produced and so clear what each one is about and different visuals. And I was like, Wow, this is really impressive. So yay for that. Husband. He does all the post production. So Nice. You

[7:12]Zibby Owens: had a line early in the book where you talked about what happened to you in 2023. And you said, wasn't just exhausted. I was trapped in an endless cycle of trying to control everything around me, my to do lists, my emotions, my relationships. I was holding on so tightly that I didn't even realize how much I was suffocating myself. Tell listeners a little bit more about that. Yes. I

[7:33]Kati Morton: am a control freak, recovering control freak. And I think it got to a point where I was struggling so hard to keep everything going. Know, like I feel like in life, especially as women, we spend a lot of plates, right? We have a lot of things that we manage, whether that's people, animals, everything in between, as well as our own businesses. I think you could probably relate to a lot of us too, is that we're asked to do a lot of different things to wear a lot of different hats. And many of us thrive, myself included, like thrive in that and I enjoy the challenge, but I can definitely get this. I don't even know how to really describe it. I can definitely get this almost like laser like focus where I feel like I need to make decisions about everything and like nothing else matters because I just need to move through this. Like this needs to happen. So we're gonna do it my way And I can get kind of, I mean, not kind of, I can get super controlling. And what I realized and why the book came to be in the book, you kind of learned this is like, what I realized is that in my urge to like do more, earn more, be better, earn my worth, I strangled myself because then I don't, there's no room for exploration. There's no room for joy. And that's really what that felt like is like in this effort to like work harder, make more money, be more successful, reach more people, do all the things I wanna do. I like, I suffocated myself. I didn't get to be the real Katie. It was like only through

[8:59]Zibby Owens: work, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. And how do you feel like your work with people who some mirrored back some of these emotions to you? How did seeing it sort of reflect it? I know you have a lot about empathy in the book. Obviously, you're incredibly empathetic. You also go into toxic empathy. So talk a little bit about that muscle, so to speak, and then when it can become dangerous. Or not dangerous, you know, detrimental.

[9:24]Kati Morton: Toxic. Right. Anything in excess. I think in general, empathy is really a superpower, right? It's something that allows us to share with other people and feel for them. And that's so powerful for both for the giver and the receiver. It's like that old adage or that old quote that like any joy shared is doubled and any sorrow shared is halved. And I think we can all kind of feel that, that like if you get to go tell your best friend that something really good happened, you get really excited for him or her and they can really get it amped up with you. And then sorrow, if we get to share in a tough time, it feels nice to know you're not alone and have somebody kind of carry that burden with you. And so in that case, empathy is really powerful and I think it's really important. I also think it makes me a better therapist because I can put myself in my patient's positions. Also, I've been in therapy myself for many years off and on since I was 15. And so I think in general, know, empathy is powerful. However, when it is firing all the time and we feel for everything. Like I just shared recently on a friend's podcast that like when I was growing up, I had this like little hammock above my bed that I would put all my stuffed animals in. I think it's probably my era. I feel like everybody had them from my cousins and my friends. Anyway, I would rotate them regularly so that each one I got to play with equally and also was like closest to me when I slept, which, I mean, I realized now it's like, Katie, I'm like, don't worry, I'm in therapy. But

[10:58]Zibby Owens: empathy is kind of out of control. I don't even see anything wrong with that. Like, was like, that totally makes sense to me. I'm on your

[11:07]Kati Morton: way. But you think of like the empathy for an inanimate object and how that can get in the way of us being able to do what's maybe best for us. And that's kind of where it turns toxic for me where I'd end up, it's like people pleasing is a very, people talk about this all the time now. It's a very common word, but the phrase itself really means that I can't be okay unless you're first okay. And so that gives all our power away, right? That means that my emotional regulation or my well-being depends on you. And logically we can hear that and be like, that's not good. But we do it all the time or I do it all the time. I should only speak for myself. But that's where the empathy kind of got away for me. And that's why there's a whole chapter just on people pleasing because it's such a thing that I struggle with and I feel like it's like whack a mole. Like I learn different ways that it's showing up in my life and I'm like, Oh my God, it's way bigger and way more pervasive than I thought it was gonna be. But again, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Empathy itself is good and it's a learned trait that we grow over time through our life, but we do have to have healthy boundaries.

[12:21]Zibby Owens: And that's kind of that. So you would not be an advocate of the expression. You're only as happy as your least happy child.

[12:28]Kati Morton: No, you have no power in that situation. We can't make anybody happy or unhappy. You I'm gonna work on that. I'm sorry. Gonna work on that.

[12:40]Zibby Owens: You had kind of a funny section. I don't know if it was intended to be funny about this interaction where you're dating someone and somebody tells you that like, Katie, you're being a puffer fish. You're being, you know, you're prickly when someone comes close to you and talk a little bit about that and whatever happened to that relationship.

[12:58]Kati Morton: Yeah. It ended probably. Okay. So sorry to hear. No, it was okay. It wasn't intended for long term anyway, but yes, puffer fish has become one of my favorite. I should send my therapist a thank you card for that. She's retired since then, but because that term that she gave to me has been such a great way to describe the kind of like anxiously attached people that I would say that I more am where vulnerability can feel a little bit risky sometimes and letting people see the real you can be scary. And so when we feel somehow poked like our soft underbelly gets poked a little bit, we protect ourselves, we throw our spines out like a puffer fish. And what you're sharing from the book was when my therapist made me aware of this term. And I mean, I assume it's just something she came up with on the fly. I never really asked her. I don't know if she knows how impactful it was, but essentially her encouragement for me through this, I mean, I think I saw her for like two or three years through that period was to allow myself to be authentic, to show up as me, come what may. People who can hang, can hang, people who won't will leave. And I was so scared because this whole relationship was built on the fact that I wasn't me. And so when I tried to let little bits in, Oh, oh, didn't like it. Or like when life was lifing and things were happening and I would have to admit like, oh, I'm scared or I'm sad or like at the time my dad had gotten sick and I was like, oh, my dad is getting sick and this is really scary. I didn't want to let that person in. And then when he would try to get in, would spines out. And so essentially that conversation that I had with her was her telling me that, you you can't have real relationships if you aren't real. Like that connection can't exist if you keep puffer fishing people. And so her challenge was instead of what the the avoided kind of anxious people do, we love to ghost, we love to just shut down, not for better, but we do. And she had encouraged me to instead communicate, like try to tell him that you're upset about this and you didn't like that this is what happened. And I was like, uh-huh. And then I just went and did the opposite as we sometimes do our poor therapist. I can see it from both sides. Anyway, by the time I saw her next, I was like, Oh, I broke up with him. That stuff. Oh my gosh. No, no, no. You know, and that's when she said, No, you just puffer fish him. You didn't even give him an opportunity. Let's work on that. Wow.

[15:31]Zibby Owens: Mean, one thing that comes through in every piece of the story is that these instincts that we have are rooted in something positive. Like, all of these adaptations that we've developed are coming from a place of trying to almost either self soothe, self protect, build up a wall against our fears. If you grew up in a more chaotic environment, the need for control can escalate to make you feel better. So I feel that, you know, you lay out really clearly that while things can go to one extreme or become slightly maladaptive, it is from a place of trying to protect and do better and make the best of your world. 100%.

[16:13]Kati Morton: It's kind of, I think part of healing always comes with this first piece of like thankfulness and acknowledgement of your system because I just had a video that came out on my channel where I talk about like, it's an old story, right? So that old story that I was telling myself, the reason I puffer fished is that being vulnerable and showing yourself isn't safe. And so, because I believe that in some part of myself, I'm gonna act in this kind of way because my nervous system wants to protect me. Brain and body are wired to keep me going, right? It's evolutionary that like I continue forward. And so we do kind of have to like, I always say this to my audience and to my patients, I'm like, you got to pat yourself on the back. Like we're doing the best, we're trying to protect ourselves, but right now this is getting like toxic, right? The empathy is good, but now it's getting a little extreme or like the protection makes sense if I don't know somebody I shouldn't share my whole life with them, but for someone who I'm close with, who I have an intimate relationship with, I should be able to share, right? And so it's finding that balance, but you are correct that like, it all comes out of self preservation in one form or another. So it's not That's a better word. That was a better word. That's it. What you said is it covers the gamut, right? You can really feel it where you're like, yeah, I did feel at risk, right? Emotionally, physically, whatever. And so I'm just doing my best to protect. Yeah, it's really important to remember that because the thing that I never want people to think when we go through this process is, Oh, I'm so stupid. Like the shame, What's wrong with me? Why am I so messed up that I can't get this together? Because then that that makes healing even more difficult. It's true. So true. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[20:02]Zibby Owens: I'm curious, and you don't have to answer this, but as someone who treats a lot of patients who have eating disorders and I used to work in an eating disorder clinic and I had a background in this a little bit, but I'm wondering how the introduction of all of the GLP ones has affected your practice and how your clients are sort of wrestling with that.

[20:19]Kati Morton: It's very interesting. I have a lot of thoughts. I'm not against GLP-one. So I'll just put that out there because I think for some people, the food noise is so loud that it makes recovery maybe impossible, but at least very, very, very difficult. And I've seen it time and time again, like relapse rates and things like that. So I do want to acknowledge the fact and for people who don't know what food noise is, because I know that that's definitely very an eating disorder word maybe, it's essentially the fact that people with eating disorders, whether restrictive or binge, they're all in the same bucket. We can't stop thinking about food in one way or another. I used to call Food Network food porn and say like, have limit our porn, know, can't just watch food all day, but it's that noise. Like imagine someone without an eating disorder could maybe relate to the fact that when you're hungry, you start thinking of like, what restaurants are around, what's open, where am I gonna eat? Or what do I have in the fridge? What am I gonna cook? Imagine that going on 20. And GLP-1s from what I've heard from my community and other, even friends and colleagues of mine on GLP-1s is it silences that. And so that's beautiful. I think that can really help when it comes to then doing the work. So this is where I would say that we have to be careful because much that like all research about mental illness will tell you that therapy plus medication gives you the best outcome. This is no different. I consider this a medication and yes, it can take away the food noise, but I want you to also do the therapeutic work and realize why your eating disorder exists. Otherwise it's never really going to get better. You know, let's say one month you can't afford the GLP-one or they're out of it, or you don't tolerate it well, whatever, then what? Then where are we? We're right back at square one. And so I really want people to still take action to better their relationship with food because a GLP-one doesn't fix that, it just fixes the symptoms. And then the last little piece I'll say, and we could talk about this as much as you want to discuss, because I clearly have a lot of thoughts. I do have concern over essentially the overuse or the misuse, would say of GLP-1s. Like people in my body and weight, which I feel like is very normal and healthy for my age and my size would be on a GLP-one and become emaciated or unhealthily thin. And I'm not a doctor, so I'm not saying that I know their BMI or whatever is below also BMI is like not helpful, but I'm not saying they're underweight, I just, it doesn't look healthy and I think that's very triggering and it kind of perpetuates the like, I don't know, our obsession with thinness.

[22:55]Zibby Owens: Interesting. We have been hearing about like, microdosing and all all these ways of abuse right? As soon as you put something amazing out into the world, people mess it up and abuse it and, like Always.

[23:07]Kati Morton: You can't say we can't have nice things. Right? Oh my gosh. It's, like, unbelievable. Well,

[23:12]Zibby Owens: find it really interesting too. I'm on a GLP one and has eliminated all the food noise for me, which I didn't realize was an eating disorder term. It was just like my life. But anyway.

[23:22]Kati Morton: Usually because it is 20 fourseven. That's what people don't realize. Yeah. And people without it, because I've heard from my audience, people who don't have eating disorders are like, what do you mean by food noise? I'm like, Oh, we have to, people don't know. Yeah.

[23:34]Zibby Owens: Yeah, it's amazing. Lucky them. Look, I have all this space in my brain now to have this conversation.

[23:39]Kati Morton: Right? And I think that's something people don't realize too is that like being in that eating disorder space where your head is you're like constantly thinking about it really limits your ability to do other things fully and be present. Yeah. I mean, it's like yeah. You're like going through life with your feet tied together or whatever, like in an old fashioned potato race or something. Yes.

[24:01]Zibby Owens: Tell me a little bit about writing this book. This is not your first rodeo. I know it's not your first book. Like, tell me about your career also as an author and how it's dovetailing with your practice and how you're sort of making a go of it with all of these different outlets.

[24:15]Kati Morton: Yeah. Book writing, it's interesting to talk about being an author because I never I never thought that that would happen for me. It's honestly such a privilege for this to be my third book. It feels almost like an out of body experience. My first book, R U Okay came out I think in 2017 if my memory serves And it was probably the hardest thing I'd have ever done because I'd never done it before. And writing in general, I don't know. I mean, I think everybody you talk to is like, Oh my God, you wrote a book. Wow, that's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. And I think for me, it feels like I kind of rung my brain out. Like I got no new thoughts, because I want every book to feel like me. Like you're talking to me, like people see me online, I want it, it needs to be, I've never used a ghost writer, not that there's anything wrong with that. This is just like written by me in my house, probably in my pajamas. And the first book really was just like really difficult. That's the best way I can describe it. I don't know even other words to use other than just like, I was completely burnt out when I was finished. And then it got easier. The second book was a little less laborious. I think almost like it's a muscle maybe that I had done it before. I kind of knew what to prepare. It wasn't so unknown. I didn't start every chapter with like imposter syndrome thoughts where I'm like, what the hell do I know? Why am I right? You know, are people even gonna read this? I didn't have that much worry in that way. But this book also, I think was a little bit, I wouldn't say effortless. It was definitely still difficult, but I think it was a little easier on me because I was just sharing my stories. And not that it's hard to get the story, figure out which one fits best, but once you're in it, then it's like, I'm just telling you, like we're sitting at lunch and I'm telling you like, Oh my God, I remember this time and then I'm just recalling. And I think that that in and of itself made it a little bit easier. It also felt because it's more personal, it just felt, I didn't worry so much about the research. Like Traumatized, my second book was so research heavy for me because I'm not a trauma specialist. So I wanted to make sure I knew all of the terms and I talked to all the right people and I read all the right books. This one was more, I mean, I still read some books and did some things, but it was just more research on me and hoping that that can help guide you. It's more storytelling, I think. Yeah, that's always easier than all the reported stuff. Right, because otherwise it feels like almost like a research article at school or something like, I just wanna make sure I get it all right. And this, I didn't feel, I honestly felt like in this book, didn't care if it was all right. I actually kind of wanted it, some of it to be wrong and for us to learn together and for me to tell you how I'm messing things up so you can be like, Oh, me too. Or, Oh, you could do this. Like I kind of wanted it to feel like that. So how do you feel about your own mental health these days? Off and on. I mean, in general, I think I work a lot and I'm trying to get better at not keeping all those plates spinning and feeling so burnt out. And it comes and goes. I think something that I've learned, I don't even know where I heard this to be honest, but it was so impactful to me. There was this woman, she was speaking at a conference and this was a clip and that's why I don't know where I watched this clip, but she was like talking about how she started her day and like everything went wrong. And she's like, and I got in my car and was like, Oh my God, I'm so late for work. And then I spilled coffee on my arm, had to run back in the house and blah, and she's just running you through her day. And she said, and then I got back in the car and I thought, stop for a second. This is not what I want for my day. I decide I'm in charge and I don't want this. And it was so impactful, almost makes me get teary because so often I just let the things happen and I just feel along the way. I like ride the wave and then I'll feel bad when that might not be what I want. And I'm not saying obviously I'm a therapist, I'm not saying stuff your feelings down. I'm saying you get to decide, I get to decide what kind of day I want to have and I can choose ways to make that better or worse. And that was so impactful to me that every time I think like, Oh, this didn't go well or Oh, that got canceled. Like I wanna get really frustrated, really sad. I'm like, you know what? Rejection is redirection. I can choose to be upset about something I have no control over. Again, going back to control, like I can get upset about that or I can decide different. I can be like, no, I want today to be a great day. You know what? Today's gonna be a great day. And so I've been doing that more and it's been life changing. I wish I'd learned this before I wrote the book and then I would have put it in there, but it's been a new discovery in the last like six months. And so I would say that I'm feeling much better and I'm still allowing myself obviously, I am emotional person. My audience knows that I'm a total crier, but it allows for me to be me and then get to decide how much I want that to impact. Like the things I don't have control over, how much access am I gonna give them?

[29:00]Zibby Owens: I love that. Thank you for being so raw and open and vulnerable about it. And because we all can relate to that so much. I mean and the idea of even just taking back the narrative without being controlling, right, which you write a lot about as well, but just taking it back, putting it in our you know, reframing all the all the tools.

[29:21]Kati Morton: Yeah. All the therapy things that we All the tools. And it's something we do.

[29:27]Zibby Owens: Oh my gosh. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors? Because you are an author. Must own it after three books.

[29:36]Kati Morton: For anybody who's aspiring to be an author, I guess the hardest part is starting. And so my encouragement is to just start. You're always gonna second guess yourself, but it's what I tell other people when they tell me like, Oh, I thought about starting a YouTube channel. I'm like, do it. We need different voices. We need different people. Not everyone's gonna resonate with what I do or what somebody else does. That's why they're here on this earth to put their voice out, to share their expertise, to share their experience because it's incredibly valid. And so if anybody out there is an aspiring author, I encourage you to just start putting some words on paper. It doesn't have to be the book itself. It can be like the proposal stage where you're like, what would it be? And what would I cover? Like start thinking about it because again, just, I really think all variety of voices is important and valid. And I know it's a daunting task to consider, but it's just like anything in life, one step at a time. It's like that old adage about like, the climb to the top always starts with one step. And so you can do it. If I can do it, you can do it. And you just never know who it's gonna help. I also think it's really, really cool to be able to reach people in a medium that is in their head. Like when you eat it's so internal, like I think that's something that I love about reading. Like, I mean, I read a ton of different books, but I read this Flavia Duluth novels. They're like, you're following an 11 year old and she's a chemist and she like solves crimes. And I like have a visual of her in my head and like what her house looks like and what her dad is like and like all these players. And I think that it's really cool to think that we can we can create something like that. You can build a world for people. It's such a privilege. It's such a beautiful thing to do. So do it.

[31:20]Zibby Owens: Amazing. Katie, thank you so much. Thanks for your time and for all the all that you do to help other people. Thanks a lot. Of course. Thank you so much for having me. My pleasure. Alright. Take care. Thank you. Okay. Bye bye. Thank you. Thanks. Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Sibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.