Tami Charles, TOGETHER, UNITED (An All Because You Matter Book)

[1:21]Tami Charles: Welcome to Totally Booked live at the Whitby where I get to interview amazing authors in person in front of a fabulous studio audience. Today, I am thrilled to be talking to Tammy Charles who will discuss Together United, the third in a trilogy. Welcome. Thanks for having me. Oh, last time we talked, you were on my podcast, but we had never met in person. So this is such a a lovely treat.

[1:46]Zibby Owens: It was it was really good to meet you in person because we were virtual, and it was the pandemic. And Yeah. It was a good time. I didn't think I'd be that much taller than you though for some reason.

[1:56]Tami Charles: I know. How how should I feel that everyone's always like, oh, you're so short. Good. You're a giant metaphorically sweet. Thank you. Thank you for that. I needed that. I needed that. Okay. Together United. Talk about this book for kids and how this was the final piece in the puzzle of the trilogy.

[2:15]Zibby Owens: Okay. So I can't talk about Together United without bringing up the first two books. So Together United is it's the final installment of a series that began with this book, All Because You Matter. That's your son. Yeah. That's my baby. Yeah. He was eight when he did this, when he modeled for this cover, but now he's 15 and he's taller than me, and he has a size fourteen shoe and some dirt on his lip that he calls a mustache. But this book was the first in the series, and this is such a special book to me because it's an affirmation of worth. It's a book that allows parents to open up conversation about tough topics. When he was in kindergarten, he learned about doctor King. His teacher was wonderful about about that. And he understood Doctor. King's purpose, but the one question he asked me at five was, mom, if Doctor. King was such a good guy, why did the bad guys hurt him? So I knew even that young that I I had to have these conversations with my son. And if I have to do that, certainly, most parents, all parents do at some point. So I wanted to write a love letter to my son, to all children, to remind them why they matter. And then I wrote, We Are Here. We Are Here is a celebration of history. This is the book that honors those who came before us to light the path and lead the way forward. And Together United just wraps it all together. This is the type of book that reminds kids of their voices, of the gifts that they have, because they will be the ones to lead us into the future and get us out of this mess and all the messes, but they are the future leaders, and I knew that this was the type of book that we needed for all readers, especially children, to understand the importance of unity. So what I like about this is when you put all three together, it makes a complete sentence. All because you matter, we are here together united.

[4:28]Tami Charles: Was this the plan? Did you always know there were three, or it just worked out perfectly?

[4:33]Zibby Owens: No. Not at all. I thought I honestly thought I was done when I wrote all because you matter. I said, oh, you know, I got all the words out. Done. And then we were stuck inside the pandemic. And I said, you know, I think I have more to say. I'm I'm a bit of a history nerd. I love history. So I said, let me let me write a second book that really spotlights history, really bringing home more about what my son learned about doctor King and other people who have really shown just how great we are and how great we can be because of their inspiration and their hard work. And then I said, Oh, dang. I thought I was done. Nope. I have more to say. Because really it's about the kids. The kids will be the ones to light the way and lead the future. So this is my

[5:24]Tami Charles: Together United is like me passing a torch to the kids to let them know it's your turn. I'm a little nervous thinking about my kids and all their friends who sit around on Roblox all day leading us all day. Us through the world. Yeah. It's okay. I mean, sometimes it's something that you can Yeah. We were talking before about how important this message was together united and how we have to bridge differences and connect and find ways to communicate and talk about the hard things and be able to put differences aside at times. That is a big nut to crack, if you will. How do we approach that, and how can we how can we teach our kids to do that when so many grown ups are not doing that?

[6:08]Zibby Owens: We grown ups are are not doing the best job with that, if I'm being honest. But as an author, I think it's my job to write books that allow children to see themselves, but also learn about other people. Doctor. Rudean Sims Bishop, she has this quote, and I might not say it completely right, but it's along the lines of that books should serve as mirrors to allow readers to see themselves. Glass windows, you know, you see through the window, you learn about other people. But doors to step into those worlds as well. And for me as an author and a former teacher, I think books are the way. This is how we can spark conversation and learn about people who are different than us. There there are studies that show that even among our differences, we we actually do want unity. And I think it was like Pew Research, 70% actually want it. We're not asking for uniformity. There's strength in differences. There's strength in different viewpoints. But I think that through books, we can really teach kids about respect and empathy,

[7:25]Tami Charles: and that's the way forward. I love that. And yet your book was banned. Talk about that.

[7:33]Zibby Owens: What yeah. Sorry. I had to bring it up. You can just touch on it. You don't have to I mean, come on, guys. Look at those cheeks. How do you say no to that? So it was challenged. All Because You Matter has been challenged in a few states. Most recently, earlier in the year, Waterloo, Iowa, Of all months during Black History Month, 3,500 copies of All Because You Matter were purchased for students, and the school district decided that they weren't going to give the books to the kids. And you know what the best part of that was? The media took pictures of my books on the floor, just spread out on the floor. You know, when we when we stifle kids from reading stories that may not be about their own experience, we're really hindering their ability to connect with other people no matter the difference. So but the good point of that is even though it was challenged in Waterloo, and I love a story like this. Yes, it was challenged, but guess who invited me out there to come and speak to those same kids? Waterloo. Yeah. I I went and I did an event. It was called the Great African American Read In. And when I tell you the audience, there were thousands in the audience. It looked like this audience. People from all walks of life coming together in the name of literacy, in the name of story to share experiences. So take that, book bans. Love it. Take it.

[9:14]Tami Charles: Oh my gosh. So touch on your career to date a little bit. You had a stint as an art a sing some kind of singer. I knew you were gonna go there. I'm sorry. That just was so cool. Do you wanna sing a little bit for us? Oh my gosh.

[9:33]Zibby Owens: Okay. Okay. Those days are done, but I'll say this. I while I love writing picture books, I actually I write as widely as I read. So I write novels too. I write novels for young adults and Your novel Muted was, like, amazing. Oh, thank you. It's actually Muted is actually about a girl who was in a singing group. And once upon a time, that was my life. I was in a singing group. I will not say the name of the group because they might kill me, but we had a song on the radio. It played at, like, two in the morning when everyone was sleeping. It was a good time, but there was a lot to be learned because the music industry can really be a dark place, like a rabbit hole. I mean, there's lots of, you know, dirt in the water. And if you don't have the right people around you, you could really fall hard and fast. So I wanted to address that in Muted, and it was well received, but it's also like a stark reality. Like, this is what can happen if you don't follow the right path. Luckily, I had good people around me. But music is a very hard business to be a part of, and at some point, I was like, oh, I have bills. I have to pay my bills. So I did the next best thing. I actually became a teacher like my mom,

[10:56]Tami Charles: and that was a way better fit for me. I I loved being a teacher. I did that for fourteen years, but music just it just wasn't in the cards for me, but I had my fun. And tell me about being in front of the kids and being able to convince them about your passion for books. Did you find then, and do you find with your son, for instance, that it's hard to get kids to read or not? So

[11:21]Zibby Owens: now, I would say that he's 15. It's a little hard to convince him, but I've learned to let go. He's a teenager, and teenagers in general will do whatever they want. In fact, I've learned to let go and just let him choose. I feel like there's no such thing as a person who doesn't like to read. You just haven't found the right book yet. And he likes graphic novels. It took me a while to really fall into that idea when he was around eight and nine and 10. I was pushing books on him. Finally, I let go. I said, okay, show me what you like. He likes graphic novels. Hey, he's reading. So I think that message applies to any kid. If you have a child who comes across as someone who's not interested in reading, really talk to them, see what they're into, and I bet you'll be surprised that they actually do like reading if you can give them the right book. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[14:55]Tami Charles: And now you're writing a book together.

[14:57]Zibby Owens: Yes. Tell me about that. Oh my gosh. So my son, you know, when he when he did this book What is his name? His name is Christopher. Okay. And when he modeled for this book, you know, he thought he was like a celebrity. Celebrity. Okay? He was hot stuff. Like, all his friends, like, he's, like, the local celebrity. But he said something within recent years. He said, mom, you know, you wrote a book about me. When are you going to write a book with me? And I was like, oh, okay. Again, he likes to read, he likes to write, but I think he needs to be in the driver's seat. And it was around that time where during the pandemic, we were stuck at home, and I had to be a teacher all over again. And I really got a first, you know, a first look into the inside of his mind. And I realized, you know, my son, he has such a beautiful mind, but like many children, he is neurodivergent. He has ADHD. And I thought that that could be a really good topic for him to write about, to normalize more conversations about neurotypical and neurodivergence. So we wrote a book together. It's called That Beautiful Mind, and it just it's an ode to all types of learners.

[16:17]Tami Charles: I love that. We need more books like that. We do need more books like that. I was saying I I wrote a graphic novel with my daughter that maybe your son could read. Yeah. You need to publish that. It's like he would have been trying sell it. Nobody wants to buy it, but I think I'll just publish it myself. There you go. Make your own way. Know. I I know. Tell me a little bit more about, like, what you want out of these conversations. The conversations that the books spark. What can we do with them? Where will they take us? Tell me about that. You know,

[16:49]Zibby Owens: I think what I want more than anything out of these conversations, I want to see children really take charge. You know, we have kids I I do a lot of school visits. I I was on tour last week, I went to all these schools, I saw all of these stars in the audience. I mean, doctors, future lawyers, future hairdressers, like, the kids have so many gifts. My goal as an author is to help them realize what their gift is and understand the power that happens when we come together. Like alone, we are a wonder, but together when we join forces, we put our gifts and our talents together, we're unstoppable. And that's what I hope all readers get out of the types of books that I write, but especially with this series, is that there's strength in numbers.

[17:45]Tami Charles: I love that. And the illustrations, by the way, I'll just, like, open up these pages, are just so breathtakingly gorgeous.

[17:53]Zibby Owens: That's Brian Collier. Brian Collier was, like, a lucky I got so lucky working with him because that man is busy. And he does a lot like, he's won Caldecott honors multiple times, Paretta Scott King awards. Like, he's really really powerful in my industry. But this the first book actually came to me in a dream. I dreamt the words, I dreamt the art, I knew it was Brian Collier, and I woke up from that dream and I wrote it all down. That's never happened to me before. All of my other books, it takes me a very long time, but with All Because You Matter, I woke up from the dream, wrote it like that. That was a Friday. Gave it to my agent, and she was like, oh my god, this is beautiful. And she sent it right off by Monday it went to auction. Yes, we had six publishers that were hammering for it, but Scholastic was the publisher that said, Well, who's your dream illustrator for this? And I said, Brian Collier. And they said, we can make that happen. So, of course, I chose Scholastic.

[19:00]Tami Charles: That never happens. That never ever happens Just in in case you are now encouraged to try. You have not had no say.

[19:08]Zibby Owens: In publishing, you have no say. You write the story, you turn it over, and they pick whoever they want. But for this series, I was really, really lucky to be paired with Brian. Also, the auction part of that, also a highly Oh, yeah. Auctions are pretty cool. That's amazing. That must have felt so exciting. Yes. So how many books have you written now? There must have been, like, 12 or something? Oh, wow. Okay. To answer that, I have to backtrack a little bit. So I wanted to be an author when I was five. I didn't think I could be an author for a few reasons. I thought I thought that you had to be really old, like a 100 years old. I thought that you had to be really rich. I thought I had to pay for it. Did you hear the part where I said my mom was a teacher? Mhmm. They need to pay teachers more. But also I never met an author. Like, never had an author come to my school, I never met one in real life, so how could you be something that you can't see? So I put the dream away, I became that teacher. It was through teaching that I rediscovered my love and my passion for writing, and my students were the ones who charged me with, you should try to become published. And thank God that they did that. It's been a journey. There were lots of rejections in the beginning. I mean, I must have gotten 40 or 50 rejections from publishing for all kinds of reasons, but then I wrote something out. I remember I got my first yes, and that was that must have been in like 2017, '2 actually, earlier than that. 2014, I got my first yes, and there was no stopping me after that. So after years of getting no's, I think I'm on my twenty second published book as of last week. Thank

[20:54]Tami Charles: you. What what was the book that gave you your first yes? By the way, I think you should write a children's book called My First Yes.

[21:02]Zibby Owens: You know, you're really good with titles. I she did that in the last one. Sorry. Sorry. You can't help myself. Doesn't it sound good? It does. It does. My first yes was my novel, my debut novel. It's called Like Vanessa. Let's see. Does do we does anyone in the room remember who was the first black woman to win Miss America? So when I was young, when I was a little girl, I used to watch Miss America every year with my I do too. I do too. And Anyone else? Yeah. I used to watch that all the time. But I wanted anybody still watch it? No. I don't. Happens. I don't know. Nobody No. I know. It's it's Me neither. You know, it's kind of it's not as popular as it used to be, but for nineteen eighties me Me too. It was a big deal. So I wanted to write a book about a girl who witnesses that moment. Now, the book is set before scandal, people. Don't don't get your panties in a bunch. It's it's a girl who witnesses that moment and is so inspired, like, wow, maybe I could do something like that. But we follow her on a journey where she learns instead of trying to be like Vanessa, she should really just try to be herself. So like Vanessa was my first yes, and there was no stopping me. Hey, I have to say something. Okay. I actually met Vanessa Williams, and I got a lot of no's for that book. I won't say who, but one of the one of the editors, publishers that said no, their reason was, I don't think Vanessa Williams will even like this book. If you Google like Vanessa, you will see Vanessa Williams endorsement right there on the Nice.

[22:44]Tami Charles: That's wonderful.

[22:45]Zibby Owens: So that was my first yes.

[22:47]Tami Charles: That's great. Thank you. Awesome. Okay. So you're writing the book with your son. What else is coming else? What else is coming out for you or coming next? So my next book, it's a picture book. It publishes in February.

[23:00]Zibby Owens: Let's see if you remember Fame. Anyone remember that show? Fame? Yes. I'm on Litch. Forever. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody.

[23:07]Tami Charles: No. Right?

[23:09]Zibby Owens: So I wrote a picture book biography of Debbie Allen, and I'm so excited about this particular book because ideas are everywhere. I think everyone has a story inside them. Like, you literally could write a story based on a picture or a conversation. In my case, the idea for this book came from a conversation that I had with Debbie Allen. I got a chance to interview her on YouTube. I hadn't met her a couple years prior. I took a dance class with her. That woman can move. Okay? I was out of breath by the end of that class, but I interviewed her on YouTube and she was so inspirational. And it made me realize this is a living legend, and no one has written a picture book about her. So I wrote a book. It's called Remember Her Name. Uh-huh. And that publishes I don't even know when in February, but it publishes in February.

[24:07]Tami Charles: Oh, February 10. There we go. That was a fame reference. Fame reference. Very good title.

[24:14]Zibby Owens: But outside of my picture books, like I said, I do write novels. I'm working on as if to add to the crazy, I'm working on a cold case kidnapping novel. Go figure. We'll see. Love it.

[24:27]Tami Charles: So what can what can we all do to help support you? Follow you? Oh,

[24:32]Zibby Owens: I love I love it. If I could have some followers on Instagram, sure. I am at tammy rights on Instagram. My website is tammywrites.com, and support. You know, tell a friend tell a friend, and these books are for everyone.

[24:50]Tami Charles: So I hope that you will support. And they're for sale. So we can Oh, yay. Yes. Thank you so much. Tammy, thank you. I love your message. I feel it is so important now more than ever. This is the time to unite and in a in a cultural moment where there is just so much divisiveness and conflict. A book like yours could just couldn't come at a better time. So thank you so much for putting it out there and for all the good that you do. Thanks so Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.