Lolá Ákínmádé Åkerström, BITTER HONEY
[0:00]Hi, this is Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Totally Book to Zibi.
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[0:45]Lola Akan-Made, Akra Strum, is the author of Bitter Honey, a novel, Nigerian-American.
[0:50]Lola is an award-winning travel writer, speaker, photographer, and author of the international
[0:55]bestseller in every mirror she's black, and everything is not enough.
[1:00]She was actually on this podcast for every mirror she's black, and is now back.
[1:03]She's based in Stockholm.
[1:05]Welcome, Lola.
[1:06]Welcome back.
[1:07]I'm totally bugged.
[1:08]I'm so excited to be talking to you about Bitter Honey, congratulations.
[1:12]Thank you.
[1:13]Thank you.
[1:14]Amazing.
[1:15]Tell listeners what Bitter Honey is about.
[1:18]So, Bitter Honey is the story about mothers and daughters and the secrets that lie between
[1:24]them.
[1:25]She was a mom from Gambia to Sweden in the 70s, and also follows that daughter as in
[1:30]the early 2000s.
[1:31]So, it's kind of a dual timeline, and it's, if you've been broken about by secrets,
[1:37]how can you get back together, rebuild our relationship.
[1:40]So, really, it's a story about mothers and daughters.
[1:43]And kind of fathers, just throwing that out there.
[1:46]Exactly.
[1:47]And did Bitter Fadders.
[1:48]And did Bitter Fadders.
[1:49]I mean, I feel it's not totally giving it away, because, you know, we have an unexpected
[1:54]visitor quite early in the narrative, which informs the rest of it, but they're all,
[2:00]the secrets in their family just start oozing out in the beginning.
[2:05]And affect everything, because your whole identity is wrapped up in things like what your
[2:12]parents tell you about who you are, and how do you process when those are different?
[2:17]Where did this idea come from?
[2:20]My first two levels, these characters, Nancy and Tina, actually were really side characters
[2:27]in those books.
[2:28]So, even though this is totally standalone, there were side characters, and one of the characters
[2:33]said, my mom moved and met my dad, who was a professor, and all of this is not given
[2:38]anything away.
[2:39]You find out on, like, page two.
[2:42]And so I knew I had to write that story.
[2:44]And so I started again deeper, and I'm also, you know, a more more reason, a kid in Sweden.
[2:51]So just a lot of those questions that I also naturally have, as well as, you know, going
[2:57]through a divorce while I was writing the book.
[2:59]So it really was a book about if life doesn't go the way you planned, if life derails
[3:04]you, how can you still pick up the pieces and make something still beautiful what
[3:09]you're leaving, right?
[3:10]And so that's kind of how can you, what's the answer to that?
[3:15]You know, you have to first of all, give yourself grease, give yourself enough time to
[3:19]brief that process, and then pick up the best pieces you can if it's, you know, repairing
[3:25]our relationships, taking care of yourself, knowing that even if life derails you, you
[3:31]know, you can still find joy.
[3:34]And a friend of mine said it's like being in a box, sometimes we can't break out of
[3:38]our box.
[3:39]So we can at least make that box beautiful, right?
[3:42]So we can at least, you know, decorate it and make it our own, even though life has put
[3:48]us in that box.
[3:49]So interesting.
[3:51]So one of the storylines delves into addiction, loss, love, all of that, talk a little bit
[3:59]about about that and what we should take away.
[4:02]Well, absolutely.
[4:03]One thing I wanted to do with this book was be very honest, you know, in terms of the
[4:08]identity issues people are dealing with.
[4:11]And if they don't, you know, go to therapy or get the resources they need, that is why
[4:18]they can then maybe fall into habits that that doesn't save them in the long run.
[4:24]And so that was what I wanted to talk about is how we can pass on generational trauma,
[4:29]you know, from our parents on to kids and parents thinking they are doing the right thing,
[4:35]actually, I think the kids negatively, very interesting.
[4:39]And what about fame because your protagonist is a performer and in the public eye and has
[4:47]to deal with all of her stuff very publicly.
[4:50]In fact, in the beginning, it works for her favor.
[4:53]It's to her favor when she has a very authentic performance after a shocking event.
[4:58]But throughout the book, she has to wrestle with who she is publicly, who she is privately,
[5:03]how to stuff down the stuff so she can perform and do what she does and is that important
[5:10]to her overall.
[5:11]Anyway, talk a little bit about that.
[5:13]Well, I wanted to talk about fame in the way that if you are in grounded before fame
[5:18]arrives at your door, it can sweep you away.
[5:22]And so with Tina, I wanted to show that she still hasn't had a great sense of self yet.
[5:27]She was still discovering who she was.
[5:30]And so it was easy for fame to come in and derail her.
[5:34]And that was kind of what I wanted to show with that character is that even if we all think
[5:40]we are ready for it, if we are not grounded, truly grounded in our values and the things
[5:44]that are important to us, you know, then we can easily get swept off.
[5:50]Do you feel like you are grounded in your values?
[5:53]So I do, you know, I am quite grounded because I know, because I'm a woman of fit as well.
[6:00]I know that life is much bigger than what I see.
[6:04]And so that gives me some grounding to say, you know what, there's something much bigger
[6:10]than myself.
[6:11]I love that.
[6:12]That's great.
[6:15]How did you include doses of creativity in your day while going through your divorce, while
[6:24]doing all of the other stuff?
[6:26]How do you carve out the time and space?
[6:29]And is that harder?
[6:30]Do you find it easy to jump back and forth?
[6:33]You know, I think it all started with grace, right, saying, you know what?
[6:37]I don't have to have it all figured out.
[6:39]I'm not the first person going through this, you know, leaning on people that have gone
[6:43]through similar.
[6:44]And then realizing that just take it one day at a time, you know, if I look at, okay,
[6:50]what do I have to do next month?
[6:52]That just brings a necessary anxiety.
[6:54]So I say, you know what, what do I need to do today to feel grounded?
[6:58]How do my kids feel today?
[7:00]Do they feel safe and loved and, you know, and so that's what I do.
[7:04]And then in terms of the creativity, this book was actually a cathartic process for me.
[7:09]It adds nothing to do with my divorce, but characters are not, you know, anywhere related
[7:14]to my own situation, but what was kind of similar was the fact that if life derills
[7:21]you, right?
[7:22]So if nobody goes into marriage wanting to get divorced, but if life does have other plans
[7:27]for you, how can you still pick up yourself, dust off yourself and still show up and
[7:33]then create something, you know, still what's celebrating, you know, and so that was kind
[7:38]of our approach this book.
[7:40]So how long did it take to write?
[7:42]So this book that writing this in bits and pieces for about two years, you know, so kind
[7:47]of when the whole process started and so I finished it over a year ago in January.
[7:53]So I'll say about two years, you know, in bits and pieces writing when the spirit moved
[7:57]me and feeling when there was a flow of creativity.
[8:02]So and in the meantime, Jeanette McCurdy picked one of your last books is a book club pick
[8:07]which is so huge.
[8:09]Tell me about that experience.
[8:10]Well, that was incredible and just to add my investment was, you know, a big honor.
[8:16]And I think it just speaks to just writing the book you really want to write and don't
[8:21]worry about how it's going to land, right?
[8:24]Does that connect with it?
[8:25]We'll find it.
[8:27]Does that feel seen through the stories, through the narratives, we'll gravitate towards
[8:31]it.
[8:32]And I think that was what happened with the last book, everything is not enough is just
[8:36]it was raw.
[8:37]It was very messy.
[8:39]There was no one character you call root for which shows the human condition in the fact
[8:45]that we're all just trying to figure life out, you know, and hopefully we give each other
[8:50]embrace.
[8:51]You know, as we're doing that, it's amazing.
[8:54]And then since this book, you have a novella that has come out and talk about that.
[8:58]Yes.
[8:59]So the novella is called Johann and that novella is tied to the previous two books
[9:03]is the main character, like I'll say the white dude character who connects all three
[9:08]black women and a lot of readers were like, we want to get into his head because without
[9:14]giving it anything away is a quite problematic character in those books.
[9:19]And so I said, you know what, since you are asking, I'm going to write this short novella
[9:24]and give you a behind the scenes of this guy because he is very complex.
[9:28]He has become quite an interesting family and so I wanted the readers to have something
[9:35]to at least be able to reference why he is the way he is as an adult.
[9:40]So I'm really proud of that novella.
[9:42]It actually took me a week to write.
[9:43]Wow.
[9:44]Yeah.
[9:45]And so, yeah.
[9:46]It's called Johann.
[9:47]How many words is that or how long is it?
[9:50]Well, it's about 27,000 words.
[9:53]In one week.
[9:54]Yeah.
[9:55]Yeah.
[9:56]Whoa.
[9:57]Yeah.
[9:58]So my writing process is quite.
[10:00]Different I have to know the characters really well before I write so because I know your hand really well
[10:07]It was easy for me to write and so when I go into any writing project. I actually spend months
[10:13]Thinking about the characters in my head making them real people in my head
[10:16]So now when it's time to actually write their stories. It comes real quickly and so that was the thing with you
[10:22]Han is I know him so well
[10:25]Based on the other two books, you know, and so it was easy to just write his story. It was just way
[10:30]Wow, still though. That's a lot of words in one week. I'm in totally impressed
[10:35]Okay, so what is coming after bitter honey? So I am working on a new novel
[10:41]And I'm so excited about it. I don't want to jinx it. No, but uh, you know
[10:46]Bittani you know after the book, so I'm gonna keep writing this new novel
[10:51]All I can say is the main protagonist is a travel writer like myself
[10:55]so that that should be fun
[10:58]And and yeah, you know, and of course outside of writing I'm a photographer so I do lots of different
[11:05]Things around storytelling visual storytelling, so
[11:09]But that's what I'm working on in terms of the next book. Amazing and where someplace you've been travel writing that you highly recommend
[11:16]Oh, my goodness. I mean, there are so many, you know
[11:20]I always say it's usually experiences and moments that you remember
[11:25]But anywhere from like Uzbekistan and Mongolia to Greenland, you know, and obviously Nigeria where
[11:31]My roots are but Croatia. I keep going back to I've been there about 15 times and that's where I write. Yeah, I know
[11:39]I don't know I
[11:40]I think there's something about the Dalmatian coast
[11:44]But I I like to go back there to write
[11:47]So I wrote I wrote you on in a week in Croatia
[11:51]And my books when I need to kind of keep moving. I go there
[11:54]And I think it's just being by the sea
[11:56]You know and getting just that beautiful energy
[12:00]That really helps me so I will I will recommend Croatia
[12:03]But so many different places based on what you're really looking for
[12:07]So if I if I plan a trip to Croatia after this conversation, what should I Google which town which location?
[12:15]But really lovely, but I will highly recommend the island of Ava a v a is h v a are
[12:21]Okay, v are yeah, okay, and I can continue to touch with a wonderful
[12:26]You know, lady the
[12:27]Accompanise called tillot Croatia
[12:29]So she's just amazing really tillot boutique experiences
[12:33]But that island is quite special and of course there's at least
[12:37]1,200 or the island
[12:40]Right
[12:41]As well still but that one is quite special
[12:44]Yeah, of course people go to Dubrovnik
[12:47]But yeah, Ava has my hat
[12:50]Okay, get to know and tell me about a new photography
[12:55]Project you're proud of so lately so right now
[12:58]I'm working on a lovely project. It's called afro suite
[13:03]And it's you know it it's like a portrait series that's done in a studio
[13:09]Against either a blue or a yellow background and it's an integration visual story telling project, right?
[13:15]Because when people think about the nadics of Sweden
[13:17]They always still have one image, you know blonde blue eyes. That's it
[13:22]But then I think about like kids are also born here, right? They still have some roots
[13:29]In Africa because of me there are lots of afro suites the afro Swedish history is actually quite long
[13:35]And so with this project I celebrate what it means to have multiple like I
[13:40]Cultural identities, right?
[13:42]I can be african but I can also be Swedish, right?
[13:45]And so it's a really lovely beautiful
[13:48]Visual project that combines me wearing like my subjects wearing some
[13:54]Attire from their own lands, you know their roots as well as Swedish items
[13:59]So it blends, you know, so I could be wearing like, you know
[14:02]An Nigerian petai wearing over a Swedish traditional vest just showing visually showing
[14:09]That integration of cultures. So
[14:12]Wow super creative were you this creative as a kid?
[14:16]You know, I've always been a creative person, you know, and I think
[14:21]When I was younger I used to write a lot of short stories and I used to write them quickly
[14:26]Maybe that was why I wrote the other book quickly, but
[14:31]And I used to draw a lot so I some definitely a creative person, but when I moved to the US
[14:37]I started in IT so I went to college and studied information systems
[14:42]I worked as a programmer for many years
[14:45]And you know, we always said that
[14:48]You go study what your parents are willing to pay for
[14:52]Return on investment, right?
[14:53]So I did that for many years, but just a creativity pulled me back
[14:58]To and that's how I kind of got into travel writing on photography and
[15:02]Yeah, but yes, I've always loved telling stories
[15:06]And the platform I use I say is irrelevant. It's what the story I'm trying to tell demands
[15:12]So if I if I want to tell a story about integration
[15:16]Maybe just writing about it is tiring. Maybe actually just visually show it through photography
[15:23]Or if I want to talk about very difficult subjects
[15:27]Maybe true fiction where people can feel like they're in the shoes of these characters
[15:32]So that's kind of how I approach my storytelling and my creativity
[15:36]Amazing by the way as we were talking about this
[15:39]I think one of your kids snuck around that was my favorite part of the interview
[15:44]Just the little glimpse of that was amazing
[15:46]My kids are so not subtle. They would just like walk right in so congrats
[15:51]And right now they're actually put looking at me right now
[15:58]You know, oh my gosh, one just one's open the bag of chips
[16:01]So I have to put myself on mute because oh that's so funny. Oh my gosh, mom
[16:07]Get it all done. That's just how it goes. I love it
[16:11]Amazing
[16:12]Okay, last question. What are you reading now or what's something you've read lately aside from your own amazing work that you would recommend?
[16:20]Absolutely, I'm so I'm currently reading a book called friends and lovers and I think it's by shelling
[16:26]I'm gonna obo obo obo be I'm so sorry. Shelling
[16:32]But you know, it's absolutely lovely. I'm just getting you know sucked in into that and
[16:38]Before that I read all fours and I've got like a lot of books kind of on the pile
[16:43]but I'm really
[16:45]You know trying to read a lot more kind of contemporary black writers in a diaspora
[16:51]because they're
[16:52]Writing kind of fresh interest in books that are not stereotypical, right?
[16:57]So what is it like to be a 40-year-old black woman who is messy and allowed to make mistakes in society
[17:03]You know, even if society also has to double-stand that
[17:06]So those kind of books are the books I'm trying to so
[17:10]So that's what I'm reading right now
[17:12]And friends and lovers by shelling amazing. Okay, I promised last question. What advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[17:20]Advice I have is don't worry about who's gonna read your book
[17:24]Just write the book that you need to write my first book was fair
[17:28]It took over 70 rejections and we just stopped counting right to get that book published in every nourishes black
[17:35]Because it was different and it was just a role and honest
[17:40]And by going through that process now I can write whatever book I want to write
[17:45]And so for my advice for aspiring authors is don't worry if you write for just a one person
[17:52]Just write the story you're meant to write don't worry about the tone
[17:56]Write what you're sold on store right once you put it down
[17:59]That's when we have editors, you know, people that can guide but get that story out the way
[18:04]It wants to be told and don't start censoring yourself thinking about what others will think of that excellent advice
[18:12]All right, good luck with your kids. Thank you so much. You know, you'll probably have written another book by like, you know, tomorrow
[18:20]You've shamed the rest of us with your productivity
[18:23]Thank you so much for coming back on Lola. Hi, I appreciate it. Thank you. Zavi
[18:27]Okay, great to see you again. Bye. Take care. Bye. Bye
[18:32]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi formerly momstone have time to read books
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[18:45]Thanks so much. Oh and bye the books