Esther Chehebar, SISTERS OF FORTUNE: A Novel
[0:00]Hi, this is Zibi Owens and you're listening to Totally Book to Zibi, formerly momstone
[0:07]have time to read books.
[0:08]In my daily show, I interview today's latest, best-selling, buzziest, or underrated authors
[0:14]and story creators whose work I think is worth your time.
[0:18]As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive
[0:24]look at everything that's coming up and spend my time curating the best books so you don't
[0:29]have to.
[0:30]Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do, every single
[0:35]day.
[0:36]For more information, go to zibimedia.com and follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens.
[0:45]Esther Cheha-bar is the author of Sisters of Fortune, a novel.
[0:49]She is also the author of the children's book, I share my name.
[0:51]This is her first novel.
[0:53]Welcome Esther.
[0:54]Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zibi to talk about your debut novel, Sisters
[0:59]of Fortune.
[1:00]Congratulations.
[1:01]Thank you so much.
[1:02]Thank you for having me.
[1:03]I'm excited to be here.
[1:04]It's my pleasure.
[1:05]Yes.
[1:06]I feel like it was so long ago when we first met, thanks to Corey Ashmi, and you were like,
[1:11]I have this book coming, and now, here it is.
[1:14]So exciting.
[1:15]Yeah, the exact same way, I cannot believe that we're almost a week away from pub.
[1:21]And yeah, I remember meeting you that day and being like, hmm, one day we'll reconnect
[1:26]with them like, that day is here and it's wild.
[1:28]Yay.
[1:29]Oh my gosh.
[1:30]What a journey for you.
[1:31]So tell everybody what Sisters of Fortune is about and then a little bit about what inspired
[1:38]the book, how you got here, all the good stuff.
[1:40]So Sisters of Fortune is a sister's story.
[1:45]It's about three young Syrian Jewish sisters who are growing up in Brooklyn.
[1:51]They're all kind of finding their way through dating and marriage.
[1:55]But ultimately, it's a story about community and it's a story about traditionalism and
[2:02]modernism and what we as women ultimately want for ourselves and the different paths that
[2:09]we take together.
[2:10]Well, it's really funny.
[2:12]I mean, you are a keen observer of human behavior and families and all the sort of
[2:20]Michigas of life, it's funny.
[2:23]It's really funny.
[2:25]So yeah.
[2:26]Thank you.
[2:27]Thank you so much.
[2:28]I appreciate that.
[2:29]Yeah, I think I grew up around really funny people and people who are unintentionally funny
[2:38]a lot of the time.
[2:39]So yeah.
[2:40]It's a treat for me.
[2:41]It was a treat for me to observe that growing up and I guess some of that made its way into
[2:45]the book.
[2:46]So I'm glad I particularly appreciated the whole sort of story line about dieting and
[2:53]wave and image and I come from a Jewish family and I could hear my grandmother's voice and
[3:01]so much of this.
[3:02]Oh my gosh.
[3:03]Do you mind if I read a couple quick sentences from the book?
[3:07]Oops.
[3:08]Okay.
[3:09]You know, as she handsaw the first slice, the M.I.L., the mother-in-law tells us her new diet
[3:14]is working.
[3:15]She is down to 165 pounds as of last Thursday, which means she's no longer seeing the
[3:19]old doctor, a miracle worker, before he was a liar, and a crook, and eventually as these
[3:24]things tend to go, and it decent my and then you go, you say, 11 pounds lost since the
[3:31]proposal.
[3:32]That's one tenth of my total body weight in three months, but really it's probably
[3:36]more like 12 or 13 pounds given I usually weigh myself in my pajamas just to cotton
[3:40]tank in shorts.
[3:41]Nothing heavy, but still, plus if I got on the scale after I pooped, it'd probably be
[3:45]even less than each of us, each of us women.
[3:49]My sisters, my mother and I walk around the house pretending like we're the only one not
[3:54]on a diet.
[3:55]Nina judges me.
[3:56]I judge our youngest sister Lucy and my mother tells us we look good the way we are and
[4:00]then it's the first one to compliment us when a quarter of a pound is lost.
[4:05]All right, discuss who, okay, yeah, a few things, you know, obviously we are all super
[4:12]preoccupied with our weight and body image in the same age.
[4:17]I think that for me, it was always this duality between, you know, growing up and obviously
[4:25]the book is fiction and I'll probably say that's 600 times during this conversation,
[4:31]but there was always this dichotomy between you're not eating enough, eat, eat, eat,
[4:38]food, a lot of, we call it pushing like a food pusher, you know, like you're sitting on
[4:43]the table and your grandmother or your mother is like watching you take everybody and you're
[4:49]not eating enough.
[4:50]And then it was the other side where it was, you know, you get older and when you are
[4:56]living in such a close technique, community you're constantly comparing yourself to other
[5:02]women, right?
[5:03]You know, as we all are and then you start to become more aware of your own body and how
[5:11]you measure up to others and then you throw dating into the mix and you throw competition
[5:17]into the mix and you have all these different elements that are confusing and often overwhelming
[5:24]for, you know, young women and I don't actually think it ever goes away the older
[5:31]you get.
[5:32]So, you know, there was like this extreme preoccupation with weight, with body image, coupled
[5:40]with, you know, in the book, food is such a big deal and gathering around the table is such
[5:46]a big deal and, you know, in terms of hosting and meals and recipes diet and nutrition
[5:55]has had no part in that.
[5:57]So you're expected to eat and enjoy and that's such a huge part of Syrian Jewish culture,
[6:05]you know, the food and the flavor and enjoying and not focusing on weight.
[6:10]And then at the same time, you are preoccupied with body weight because you're constantly
[6:17]comparing yourself.
[6:18]So I always was fascinated by that dynamic and how those two things, you know, interplay
[6:24]it with one other.
[6:26]Yeah, I totally get that.
[6:27]Like what?
[6:28]You're not having my famous chocolate roll.
[6:30]Yeah, I mean, it's an everyday being like, oh, have you put on a few pounds?
[6:34]What do you think?
[6:35]Have you lost weight in the game with, yeah, constant and constant dialogue.
[6:39]He says public territory, so to speak, exactly.
[6:43]And then, of course, like the chatter around, have you tried this diet?
[6:48]Have you tried that diet?
[6:49]There's always a new fat, there's always a new doctor in town, there's always a new
[6:53]meal plan.
[6:54]So, yeah, I think that's something that we all, unfortunately, deal with.
[6:59]And even just the comparison between among the sisters in general, right, trying to measure
[7:05]up who has this, who's getting married, who has this relationship.
[7:08]What about this guy?
[7:09]What's wrong with me?
[7:11]What's right with her?
[7:12]How do you even deal with that?
[7:14]And do you have sisters, by the way, what's your whole situation?
[7:16]Well, I do have sisters, I am the oldest of three girls, and I have an older brother
[7:22]above me.
[7:23]So, we're a three girls, one boy.
[7:26]And you know, I think it's funny because in promotion for this book and in just speaking
[7:32]to friends and family and, you know, people about the book, I've had so many women
[7:40]be like, I'm one of three girls.
[7:42]And I think you want to have, right, as you have a brother, but I think there is this dynamic
[7:48]amongst three sisters in a family where you do feel compelled to set yourself apart
[7:57]in some way.
[7:59]So, you know, going off of the theme of comparison, we're constantly comparing ourselves
[8:04]to our siblings in general.
[8:06]And, you know, I have three kids of my own, and I see them as they're little now, but
[8:11]as they grow, I see them trying to carve out their own little niches for themselves.
[8:18]You know, whether that's, oh, I like painting, but my brother like sports, or I like
[8:22]magnetiles and my sister likes, you know, playing pretend, it's human nature to want
[8:28]to differentiate yourself from your siblings, you know, whether that's to get more attention
[8:35]in one area or, you know, whatever the reasoning behind that is.
[8:40]And I think with sisters, again, you have that innate desire to differentiate yourself
[8:49]from your sisters, but then you, as the sisters in the book, come of age where they're
[8:56]dating and whether they like it or not and whether they want to admit it or not, they are
[9:01]competing with one another in this very small dating pool of eligible men.
[9:09]And you know, what happens when, you know, one of them maybe is in getting what she
[9:15]wants out of that.
[9:16]You look at your sister and I would seem to come so easy to her and why not me and you don't
[9:22]want to compare and you don't want to have resentment because, you know, ultimately you have this
[9:27]overriding bond.
[9:30]I love for one another, but outside factors do come into play.
[9:34]And I think that's a dynamic that was always very interesting to me.
[9:40]And, you know, amongst, you know, I'll speak for myself and with my own sisters, we're all very
[9:45]different and from a very young age, we all try to, you know, we, I don't want to say
[9:53]we put ourselves in our own little boxes, but we kind of did, you know, like one of my sisters
[9:58]is a lawyer, the other.
[10:00]One is a skin therapist also.
[10:04]I don't know.
[10:05]I have to ask her what the correct answer is.
[10:07]All right.
[10:08]And so anyways, it's just funny to see how you try
[10:13]and you try and separate yourself from one another
[10:17]and play off your own strengths.
[10:19]But then you come together ultimately
[10:23]in the ways that matter.
[10:25]So I love that.
[10:26]Oh, yes.
[10:28]For those listening who don't know exactly what
[10:31]the Syrian Jewish community is versus the Jewish community
[10:35]at large, like what can you explain it a little bit?
[10:38]Sure.
[10:38]So the Syrian community is so first of all,
[10:41]it's a Sephardic community.
[10:43]So our ancestors way, way back, came from Spain.
[10:48]The Syrian community in Brooklyn is a huge
[10:52]and growing, very dynamic community
[10:57]whose descendants mainly come from Aleppo and Damascus.
[11:01]But I will say that within the umbrella term of people,
[11:04]people say the Syrian community, but living
[11:06]in the Syrian community are many, many Jews from Egypt
[11:10]and Lebanon and Israel.
[11:13]So it's a broad umbrella.
[11:15]But we say Syrian because the majority of the community
[11:19]has come from Syria.
[11:21]And there were two waves of Jews who left Syria.
[11:27]So post-1948, the establishment of Israel,
[11:31]life for Syria's Jews became imaginably very difficult.
[11:37]And they were no longer welcome there.
[11:41]There is restrictions on their behavior,
[11:43]on the way they practice their Judaism.
[11:46]And so people started to flee.
[11:49]So the first wave, post-1948, people began to escape.
[11:55]And ultimately settled in Brooklyn.
[11:58]You know, a lot of people settled near Bay Parkway.
[12:01]So that was a sort of the first iteration of the community
[12:05]here.
[12:06]And then the second wave, which was mainly from Damascus,
[12:10]not Aleppo, had been around 1992
[12:13]when President Assad gave a pardon for all of the remaining
[12:19]Jews to leave Syria.
[12:20]And by that point, the community here
[12:23]was already established and had Yeshivas and synagogues
[12:28]and non-profits who were able to really set up
[12:32]those refugees here.
[12:34]And that's a whole amazing story in and of itself.
[12:38]But the community was so unique about the Syrian community
[12:41]and why I think a lot of people are,
[12:44]outside of it, are intrigued by it
[12:46]is because it is an insular community that
[12:49]does play by its own rules.
[12:51]And that is mainly associated.
[12:55]And we live amongst each other.
[12:58]But unlike other Orthodox communities in Brooklyn,
[13:02]that might come to mind, we do socialize
[13:06]outside of the community.
[13:08]We work outside of the community.
[13:09]So it's sort of like this one foot in one foot out dynamic.
[13:13]That is really interesting.
[13:16]But so many of our traditions and our recipes
[13:19]are very, very important and vital and very much alive today.
[13:25]And we've managed to really hold on
[13:27]to those traditions from Aleppo, from Damascus.
[13:31]And we mainly marry within the community.
[13:36]So we've managed to.
[13:38]And at the time when a lot of Jewish communities,
[13:40]I think, are struggling a little bit
[13:43]to keep their people together.
[13:45]I think the Syrian community has managed to do that in space.
[13:50]So does that answer your question?
[13:52]Yes, totally.
[13:53]I loved that.
[13:54]Thank you.
[13:54]That was great.
[13:56]No, I love it.
[13:57]It's good for people to get context.
[13:59]You know, people should understand.
[14:01]And anyway, so in terms of writing this book,
[14:05]when did you give me a quick up till now
[14:09]story of your life thing?
[14:11]And you went to college for writing,
[14:13]or you were adjourned.
[14:14]Like, tell me the whole thing.
[14:15]I went to college.
[14:17]I went to NYU.
[14:18]I thought I was going to be an environmental science lawyer
[14:22]to not think I was going to always wrote my whole life.
[14:25]I never thought that it would be a viable career path
[14:29]to be completely honest.
[14:31]But I always adored writing.
[14:34]I would write chapters of stories in my book
[14:38]and my room growing up did not go to college for writing.
[14:41]But I went to Gallatin, which is a small individualized
[14:46]program at NYU that really allowed me to explore.
[14:51]And after I graduated, I took a bunch of satire, comedy,
[14:58]film classes at NYU.
[14:59]And I said, I really just wanted to create stories
[15:05]in one capacity or another.
[15:07]And then after NYU, I actually got married.
[15:10]in my junior year of college.
[15:12]I graduated college in three years.
[15:15]Got engaged my junior year.
[15:16]Got married at 21.
[15:18]And started this blog as a 21-year-old married,
[15:24]living in New York, about being this,
[15:28]I called it an accidental housewife.
[15:31]And by that point, I was just writing these stories every day.
[15:34]Funny little anecdote about this place
[15:38]that I found myself in, that I did not really think I would be in at 21.
[15:43]And I got my first job through that blog,
[15:46]through that blog, working at Man-Repeller, which
[15:50]for, I don't know, how much of your audience is familiar with it.
[15:53]But for me, it was like a dream first job.
[15:58]I was writing for the Andrew Medina,
[16:01]who was started at the Man-Repeller blog
[16:03]about women who defied, I guess, expectation
[16:09]through their clothing and did not dress for the male gaze,
[16:13]I guess, I'll put it that way.
[16:15]So that was my first writing job.
[16:18]And after that, I did end up going to get my MFA at the new school.
[16:23]And it was there that I really said, OK, I think,
[16:27]I think I really want to take all of these experiences
[16:31]in office writing I've been doing and turn it into a book somehow.
[16:36]And that was eight years ago.
[16:40]And the book has transformed a ton through that time.
[16:44]But now we're here.
[16:46]And it started as a nonfiction book.
[16:48]And then it changed.
[16:49]It was a book of essays.
[16:50]But it had a lot of lives, I'll say.
[16:54]And now we're here.
[16:56]So exciting.
[16:57]And you have kids of your own.
[16:58]How old are they?
[16:59]I have a seven-year-old son, a four-and-a-half-year-old daughter
[17:04]and a almost three-year-old son.
[17:06]Oh, my gosh.
[17:08]And they're totally in the thick of it.
[17:11]And now to do book promotion and writing and editing.
[17:14]I mean, this is a lot, right?
[17:16]It's a lot.
[17:17]But I like it this way.
[17:19]And I think stillness is when I start to feel like,
[17:23]and then now it all happens all at once.
[17:26]And it's fun.
[17:27]And it's fun for my kids to see, too, you know?
[17:30]So that's also been exciting.
[17:34]Oh, that's great.
[17:35]Really?
[17:36]Amazing.
[17:37]Were the paths to publication,
[17:39]were the different iterations of the book
[17:42]prior to getting a book deal?
[17:45]Or after getting a book deal?
[17:46]What happened?
[17:47]So both.
[17:50]When I was in grad school, I originally
[17:53]when I was getting my nonfiction degree.
[17:58]And I had a professor who just kept on reading my essays
[18:03]and he was like, I don't know,
[18:05]something's missing.
[18:08]And I think that I think I always felt I heard people's
[18:13]reaction as I was writing.
[18:15]And I just felt very, you know, I felt limited.
[18:18]And I think this is something that all writers
[18:20]have to contend with.
[18:21]And ultimately, we know whether it's nonfiction or fiction.
[18:26]You're writing from, you're tapping into some experience.
[18:31]And I think for me, I wasn't able to tell the stories
[18:35]that I wanted to tell in the way I wanted to tell them
[18:38]in the nonfiction realm.
[18:39]And so that iteration was pre-publication.
[18:43]I ended up scrapping all of that and saying, hey,
[18:46]let me try my hands at fiction.
[18:48]And like, it just completely freed me up.
[18:51]immediately.
[18:52]So that professor was right.
[18:54]And I think, you know, originally, the book was from one
[18:59]perspective.
[19:00]And again, I didn't feel like I was able to tell the story
[19:04]in its entirety the way I wanted to tell it.
[19:07]And then I ultimately included the other sisters'
[19:12]perspective.
[19:12]So the book alternates between the three sisters' perspectives
[19:15]and I think, and that was also pre-publication.
[19:20]But post a lot of rejection.
[19:23]So all of these things, and I'd say that I changed the book
[19:25]to in order to get published or fit anyone narrative.
[19:31]But I think that all of those experiences were helpful.
[19:36]And helped me say, OK, let's take a breath.
[19:42]Let's think about the book that, let's think about the story
[19:45]I want to tell.
[19:46]And what's the best way to tell that?
[19:48]Sorry, so I'm actually thankful for that rejection.
[19:52]And all of those different iterations,
[19:54]because when I read the book now, it does feel complete to me.
[19:59]And I mean.
[20:00]I'm very proud of the story that I'm telling and I obviously wouldn't have got here if
[20:07]if I didn't go through all of those different steps. And when you think about how many drafts
[20:14]and how long it took and all of that, what is the thing you most want people to take away from
[20:21]the book? What was the court of it that you were just like, I have to make sure I get this in the
[20:26]the book. I need people to read this. It's a great question. I think that I really wanted to speak
[20:34]to the multitude. I think there's like a multitude of eight female experiences, be Jewish experiences,
[20:44]see female Jewish experiences. And I think that this culture is so unique in its complexity and
[20:53]also in its joy. And I really wanted these sisters to be seen in all of their complexity
[21:04]and in this Jewish community to be seen in all of its joy. I think that I didn't know this
[21:11]maybe when I was writing the book. But now I now it's come full circle where I think that we've
[21:17]spent the last two years like as an international worldwide Jewish community sort of reeling
[21:26]from a lot of the negativity and a lot of the bad PR I'll say. And a lot of many of us have had
[21:36]less than fun experiences. And I think that for me it's really really important to get back to
[21:47]the joyfulness of being Jewish. And that doesn't mean that we ignore some of the ugliness and
[21:55]some of the complexities and some of the more there's peaks and valleys. That doesn't mean that
[22:03]there can't be peaks and valleys. But it does. But I do want to celebrate what it means to be
[22:10]today and more specifically celebrate this community that has endured. And you know a lot of people
[22:17]don't know that there is a Syrian Jewish community. I think that we've seen that over the past
[22:24]year. A lot of people want to I want to say like whitewash the Jewish experience. But like that's
[22:29]you know. And I and this is a community with a lot of flavor and with a very very interesting
[22:36]history and that has it's a community that has pulled itself up by its bootstraps and that
[22:42]you know has not really looked back at the persecution and at the negativity. But that has said
[22:49]okay we're here now. And what will we do with what we have? And they've done a lot. And so
[22:57]I guess there's a lot of things I want people to take away from it. But there was just a few
[23:01]amazing that very well said. That was great. And now that this book is coming out what are you
[23:08]working on next? Do you have another book? Are you just going to go all in on this and just give
[23:14]it a break? What's the plan? I am working on another book. I can't wait to you know I think that
[23:21]promoting a book is obviously needless to say very different than the actual writing of it. And I
[23:28]am grateful because I didn't realize how much I missed the actual writing part. I am working on
[23:35]another book. It has to do with a group of 40 or 40 year olds of women who go on a tennis retreat
[23:42]in Boca. Oh my gosh I love that. So that's the overall pitch. And you know I'm just in like
[23:51]the fun idea part now where I'm like writing down notes and writing down lines and you know I have
[23:57]like all my thoughts scattered around. So it's fun. That is really fun. Do you have a title? I do.
[24:05]What is it? I do have. So it's love comma for me. So a little pun. You know tennis people.
[24:13]Wait we have a book that we're publishing that's come by a woman named Jane Costello next year
[24:18]in 2026 and it's called 40 Love. Oh my God. Sorry. And actually I wrote a novel called 40 Love
[24:27]which didn't sell but I wrote it you know right before COVID and tried to sell it actually
[24:31]I sent it out the day that COVID started and people like didn't find it on their desks until
[24:35]like a year later when they finally went back to the office. Anyway I threw mine away but then
[24:40]this submission came to us and from an author we had already published and I was like oh my gosh
[24:44]that's my title. Yes you should do it. So they did. So we bought it and now we're publishing it.
[24:49]But anyway love 40 is great. It's gonna be hilarious. Working say the love for. I mean like in my
[24:55]and in your book you're up. Yeah so yeah that's true. It's a great title then.
[25:03]I love yours. We have to I have to introduce you to Jane Costello and the two of you will
[25:10]do events together and I want to do a whole 40 Love tournament or something. So that'll be amazing.
[25:17]Right? Yes. Are you a I know your husband's experience? I am a tennis player. We actually played
[25:22]tennis this morning. I'm in my Tennessee tennis that transitions to regular life outfit. So you
[25:27]know. Thank you. Thank you. Okay last question. Any advice to aspiring authors and or aspiring
[25:37]Jewish authors? Aspiring authors in general just write every day. That's one piece of advice that
[25:44]I got that I'm sure you've gotten. But it's the truth. It doesn't need to be two hours of a desk.
[25:50]It doesn't need to be 20 pages. I don't wear a document. Write every day. It could be a note
[25:57]in your notes app. Just keep your eyes open and record something. I won't even say right because
[26:03]I feel like that sounds intimidating and you know it feels like it has to be perfect in some way.
[26:09]But record something every day. Aspiring Jewish authors I would just say don't be afraid to
[26:18]tell your story. Don't be and you know that goes to you know you might be afraid of offending
[26:27]the Jewish community. You might be afraid of offending someone. I feel like we're all in this
[26:33]hypersensitive place where we're so we're tip-towing. And I hope to take my own advice as well.
[26:43]Don't tip-tow. I think that there's a Jewish tradition in art of diving into the deep end and
[26:49]that's what makes such a that's what makes I think Jewish creators and artists. So
[26:57]influential. So dynamic is that we have a history of diving in, not being afraid,
[27:05]saying things maybe that shouldn't be said and let's continue that tradition going forward.
[27:13]Love it. Amen. Thank you so much. This would be and thank you for everything that you do for
[27:21]Jewish authors for all authors you're incredible and I seriously don't know how you do it and you play
[27:28]tennis this morning. So it's a double ring. Thank you. Well thank you for coming on and for saying that
[27:37]and I love that this whole thing has come full circle from when we first met and congratulations.
[27:43]It's really really awesome. Thank you so much. Okay. All right. Bye. Bye. Bye bye.
[27:50]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi, formerly momstone have time to read books.
[27:55]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens
[28:01]and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh and bye the books.