Ali Brady, BATTLE OF THE BOOKSTORES
[0:00]Hi, this is Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Totally Book to Zibi.
[0:06]Formerly, moms don't have time to read books.
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[0:45]Ali Brady is the pen name of writing BFF's Allison Hammer and Bradley Godfrey.
[0:50]The beach trap was their first book together.
[0:52]Allison lives in Chicago and works as a VP, creative director, at an advertising agency.
[0:58]She's the author of You, and Me, and Us, and Little Pieces of Me.
[1:02]Bradley lives with her family in Utah, where she works as a physician.
[1:05]She is the author of the psychological thriller and poster.
[1:08]Welcome, ladies.
[1:09]I'm so excited to be with quote unquote, Ali Brady, the pen name for the two of you.
[1:14]So excited.
[1:15]Battle of the bookstores.
[1:17]Congratulations.
[1:18]Thank you so much.
[1:19]Thank you so much.
[1:20]Thank you so much.
[1:21]I know this isn't coming out on PUBDAY, but it's just so nice to be here with you on
[1:24]PUBDAY, so yay.
[1:25]You can't think of a better way to start today, so thank you for having me.
[1:29]Okay, both of you introduce yourselves, and I will have already read your, I already read
[1:33]your bias, but just like some people know who's talking and all that.
[1:37]Perfect.
[1:38]Well, my name is Allison Hammer, and I am the alley half of Ali Brady.
[1:42]And I'm Brady Godfrey, and I'm the Brady half.
[1:44]Amazing.
[1:45]So excited to have you together.
[1:47]Tell listeners what battle of the bookstores is about.
[1:51]So we, the shortest version is that it's the hating game meets you about mail.
[1:56]That's how we've been describing it.
[1:57]That it is about two bookstores that have existed side by side for decades.
[2:02]One, happy endings is a romance only bookstore.
[2:05]And then Tabula and Scripta sells more literary fiction.
[2:08]So they, you know, co-existed fine until one day the same person buys both of them and
[2:12]wants to combine them into one bookstore, but only one person can be manager.
[2:17]So suddenly the managers are in competition, but things get more complicated when things
[2:23]get complicated because unbeknownst to these two managers of the different bookstores,
[2:28]they have struck up an online friendship on an anonymous bookseller forum, and they've
[2:32]been chatting for months.
[2:34]And as their rivalry gets hotter in real life, their online friendship gets softer and
[2:39]sweeter and more vulnerable.
[2:41]And at some point, the truth has got to come out and then, you know, we'll have to see
[2:44]what happens.
[2:45]Oh my gosh, I love it.
[2:48]Even I didn't actually know until, because you don't reveal that they are actually
[2:52]email with each other until a little bit later.
[2:54]And then I was like, oh my gosh, stuff really, I couldn't believe it.
[2:58]And then I'm like, of course I should have seen that coming, but I didn't, but anyway,
[3:02]that was great.
[3:03]And also I love as a bookstore owner, love the bookstore stuff, you know, every, all the
[3:09]details that how much you're carrying stuff.
[3:12]I mean, like all the things, like the boxes of books, but also the excitement of like
[3:17]opening a new box of books and just all the details because so much of course obviously
[3:21]goes into owning a bookstore.
[3:23]How did the two of you gather all that insider intel on bookstore life?
[3:28]You know, we have gotten to be friends with a lot of booksellers, including you.
[3:33]And just were very, we had some conversations and we paid attention to what, you know, when
[3:38]we would have events, what they were dealing with.
[3:41]And just, you know, we did a little bit of research talking to people, but I don't know.
[3:45]And just we had, we had beta readers also, and we asked for beta readers who have been
[3:50]booksellers.
[3:51]And that was really helpful to you.
[3:52]Yeah.
[3:53]I'll tell you one of the best reviews that we got was from a bookseller who was like,
[3:55]they, these guys got it right because, you know, my day jobs and advertising and advertising
[4:00]is the job that they give like almost everybody in like Hollywood movies and things like
[4:04]that.
[4:05]And they always get it so wrong for how it actually is.
[4:08]So the fact that they, that, you know, people think it's authentic, you know, we felt really
[4:11]good about that.
[4:12]No, I love it.
[4:13]And of course just highlighting bookstores in general is so smart and awesome, particularly
[4:19]indie and like, this is literally the consolidation, the, you know, story, what happens
[4:25]when we make conglomerates and what do you lose.
[4:29]So I feel like, yes, it's a better one relationship, but it's really about, so it's a societal
[4:34]commentary as well.
[4:35]Like, what do you all think about about small versus big and also the sort of the greed,
[4:43]because that's also a piece of this.
[4:45]You know, we say all the time that booksellers are the unsung heroes of the industry.
[4:50]My, so Brady and I both have solo books and my debut came out in April of 2020.
[4:56]And the biggest loss of that was not having booksellers and bookstores being open to
[5:00]handsell books like they're trusted.
[5:02]They are voracious readers and, you know, whether they're at a bigger store or a smaller
[5:07]store, just, we think they're heroes, but there's been a trend with romance only bookstores
[5:12]and we are here for it.
[5:13]And the romance, romance reads in general have just like, they've always been like the
[5:18]lifeblood of the publishing industry, but it feels like they're getting more respect now.
[5:21]Yeah.
[5:22]Absolutely.
[5:23]And I think it's so fun.
[5:24]We've traveled a lot around to a bunch of different bookstores, including your adorable
[5:27]bookstores.
[5:28]Yeah.
[5:29]And seeing how so many, they all have their own personalities.
[5:31]They all have their own little quirks and they all make their own communities and it makes
[5:35]it really special.
[5:36]You were actually the inspiration for something.
[5:38]And we talked about this on another, in another interview.
[5:41]So one of the things that I love about Stevie's bookshop is how you organize the shelves
[5:46]and how you do it in like, you know, these are stories about sisterhood or for recently
[5:49]divorced women or all those different things.
[5:51]And so that was the inspiration for how Ryan organizes happy endings by, you know, there's
[5:56]a big conversation with between him and Josie over our, our, our French shall be even
[6:01]health book like where do you shelve it and, and to Josie, it's like, well, in the alphabet,
[6:05]but Ryan thinks like just have creative ways to categorize books.
[6:09]So it was, you guys were the inspiration for that.
[6:12]That's amazing.
[6:13]Wow.
[6:15]Our shelving in fiction, that's, that's one for the books.
[6:21]So you tell the story from two perspectives, alternating, when did you make that decision?
[6:26]Like what, tell me a little bit about that and do each of you write one of the characters?
[6:31]How is that?
[6:32]How do you do that?
[6:33]Yeah.
[6:34]So this is our fourth book together.
[6:35]And we started out as critique partners before we wrote together.
[6:38]And so we have just a very natural, you know, way of working together.
[6:41]But the way that we do it is we each take one character that like with the own, we were
[6:46]going to do it a little differently this time, but like it really does help to just like
[6:49]embody that character and to really think about them.
[6:52]And so we'll, we plot like we have like crazy plotting sessions and we do a lot of work
[6:57]on the character growth and development and wounds and like all that stuff.
[7:02]And then I'm doing talk about how we could do the actual like writing that together.
[7:05]So we create a really, really detailed outline and then we divide up the characters like
[7:10]we said one will take the point of view of the other, one and the other and the other
[7:13]of the other.
[7:14]And then we'll each typically we draft like a chapter a week.
[7:17]And so we'll each draft a chapter from our character's point of view and swap it and then
[7:20]we edit each other.
[7:21]So we're constantly drafting and then editing and then drafting and editing and back
[7:24]and forth and back and forth.
[7:26]And so it really by the end, we have touched every single word on every single page multiple
[7:30]times, both of us.
[7:31]But it's interesting because our, you know, as we've gone, our characters have gotten closer
[7:36]and closer and closer.
[7:37]And our, in our debut, the beach trap, they were half sisters who were estranged and didn't
[7:41]have a ton of chapters together.
[7:43]And then in the comeback summer, they were sisters who lived and worked together.
[7:46]And then in this one, they're like a couple who ends up, you know, sleeping together.
[7:50]So it's very like, but it's interesting because our characters have more page time with
[7:56]each other.
[7:57]Also, like when I would write a scene with her character, she would go in and be like,
[8:00]well, no, they wouldn't say that and vice versa.
[8:03]So it really is a collaboration in every sense.
[8:07]And do you, you don't disagree.
[8:08]You're just basically on the same page most of the time.
[8:10]No, no.
[8:11]Yeah.
[8:12]Of course we disagree.
[8:13]Yeah.
[8:14]Of course we disagree.
[8:15]I mean, I think that's part of the, any time you work with any other person that you like
[8:18]love and trust and respect, like, yes, you're still going to disagree.
[8:21]But also you love and trust and respect them.
[8:23]And so you're like, all right, I guess if this isn't working, then we're going to have
[8:26]to figure out another way to make it work.
[8:28]So I think it makes it stronger.
[8:29]I think our drafts by the time we finish, our drafts think are much stronger than if
[8:32]we work on our own.
[8:34]And we both like, you know, if there are, if we both have a different idea about something
[8:38]or we don't agree on something that will find a different way or sometimes if it's like
[8:42]that's not working, then that means we haven't done the best job of explaining what was
[8:46]in our heads like on the page.
[8:48]And I really think we had an event last night where someone was asking about, about the plot
[8:52]and we really do co-create the plot together.
[8:54]We go chapter by chapter coming up with it.
[8:56]So if there are, like, disagreements, we usually are pretty good at working through it
[9:01]and Brady had a really good idea.
[9:03]We've only used it once, but we each get one veto on the book.
[9:08]So a change.
[9:09]No questions asked.
[9:10]No discussion.
[9:11]Just veto.
[9:12]Yeah.
[9:13]And we've only used it once, but like, again, you know what was vetoed.
[9:18]We could tell you, we could tell you if you want it.
[9:22]I want to know.
[9:24]So in our first book, The Beach Trap, we had like, not even a side character.
[9:30]She was like on the page for like a page.
[9:32]You pages.
[9:33]Very few pages.
[9:34]And she was the real estate agent trying to sell this book or sell this house that they
[9:38]inherited.
[9:39]And Brady wanted to name the character.
[9:41]I wanted to name the character something funny and random.
[9:44]And so what did I pick?
[9:45]She picked Randy Beaver.
[9:46]Randy, yes.
[9:47]So the joke was that, you know, if somebody is, you know, brave enough to put that on
[9:52]her business cards, then, you know, she'll do a great job selling this house.
[9:56]So Randy Beaver.
[9:57]Except that my dad is Randy Hammer.
[9:59]And like, I just.
[10:00]us was like, it just feels too similar.
[10:02]And like, it just, you know, I was uncomfortable with it.
[10:06]And then I asked my dad, he's like, yeah, I don't know about it.
[10:09]And Brady's like, no, it's funny.
[10:11]And then we had a beta reader who read it
[10:13]and was like, like Randy Hammer.
[10:15]And I'm like, see, so we ended up naming her Harriet Beaver,
[10:19]which is still funny, but just not already on me with my dad.
[10:23]Mm-hmm.
[10:24]So what would be a disagreement?
[10:26]Yeah, I think it's curious.
[10:28]Oh my gosh.
[10:28]That's really funny.
[10:29]Well, I'm glad you found your way through that mess.
[10:31]And, you know, I got to the other side of it.
[10:36]So how do you do the pacing of your own careers
[10:39]versus your joint projects and various publishers?
[10:42]And like, how are you managing that?
[10:44]Well, we each have a different agent
[10:46]and they work together, which is really great.
[10:48]And so I think it creates more opportunity
[10:51]because they both have different strengths
[10:53]and they both have different networks and things like that.
[10:56]And honestly, it's a little bit you go where the energy is going.
[10:59]So like, we've been very, very lucky
[11:02]with the Allie Brady books having,
[11:04]this is our fourth one in four years.
[11:05]Wow.
[11:06]And we both have other books and we're always working on the side.
[11:10]Like, I've got a project I'm working on
[11:12]and Brady has a project she's working on.
[11:14]And a lot of times we still critique for each other
[11:16]on our separate projects.
[11:18]And we also both have full-time jobs
[11:20]and Brady has four kids and two dogs
[11:23]and a stray cat who is now her cat.
[11:27]So we're creative people.
[11:29]And I think that, you know, I mean,
[11:31]you have like, though, you know how it is,
[11:33]where you have stopped doing the things that you love.
[11:35]You know.
[11:37]Well, I know, but I'm like, wait,
[11:38]you also have full-time jobs.
[11:40]Go back to that part.
[11:42]Yeah.
[11:43]And artists against anti-Semitism,
[11:45]like there's so much stuff.
[11:46]And so, but we love it.
[11:48]And we both have a crazy work ethic
[11:51]and having a deadline and being accountable.
[11:54]I think it really helps that like,
[11:56]I will let myself down no problem,
[11:59]but I don't want to let her down.
[12:00]And so we keep on track.
[12:03]We keep on schedule.
[12:04]We write nights and weekends.
[12:06]And it's time for it.
[12:08]It's so fun.
[12:09]Like, it's hard, but it's just,
[12:12]I feel like we're so lucky to do it
[12:14]so that we put the work in one we need to.
[12:16]Wait, four kids, full-time job,
[12:19]books on your own, not to minimize it all.
[12:21]I know like, Alison,
[12:23]you have so much on your play, too.
[12:24]But just the logistics of the kids,
[12:26]when are you doing this?
[12:27]Are they asleep?
[12:28]Are you doing it before they wake up?
[12:30]I do have a great partner who takes that part out.
[12:33]Yes, I think it's a partner.
[12:34]They just wonderful.
[12:35]My kids are older now.
[12:36]I mean, I didn't writing for, you know,
[12:38]a good eight years or something seriously
[12:40]and working on this.
[12:41]And so when they were younger,
[12:42]it was like, you know, naps and late nights.
[12:45]And they're older.
[12:45]So a lot of times it's like, you know,
[12:47]they have friends over other things in art or whatever.
[12:49]And so I'm just having my laptop and I'm doing it.
[12:51]hanging out.
[12:52]So now I feel like it's easier to just,
[12:54]they need like the mom around to kind of,
[12:57]but you don't have to watch them
[12:58]or entertain them anymore, really.
[13:00]And it's been fun for me.
[13:01]I don't have kids.
[13:02]I just have, I have two nephews who are amazing,
[13:03]but like, I feel like an aunt to Brady's kids.
[13:05]And like, you know, we would be on zooms all the time.
[13:08]And like, the kids would come in, you know,
[13:10]and say, hey mom, and I'm like, hi.
[13:12]And it's just been really fun.
[13:14]Her kids are awesome.
[13:15]And so is her husband.
[13:17]Amazing.
[13:17]Oh my gosh.
[13:18]And Alison, talk a little more about
[13:20]our against antisemitism, which of course is
[13:23]how we've really connected more in the space,
[13:25]you know, when all of that started.
[13:27]Yeah.
[13:28]We, I had reached out to you on Instagram
[13:31]in the days following October 7th.
[13:32]And we wanted to have just a support group
[13:34]of other Jewish authors.
[13:36]And like, what it has become is beyond anything
[13:40]that I can ever imagine.
[13:42]And on our very first Zoom,
[13:43]you were the one who was like,
[13:44]because we started with doing an auction.
[13:46]And you're like, guys, this is bigger than this.
[13:47]Like, we have so much combined power
[13:50]and connections and talent.
[13:52]Like, there's more we can do.
[13:53]And from that Zoom, we're now officially a final one,
[13:56]C3.
[13:57]We have a lot of amazing stuff in the works.
[14:00]And then of course, we, a lot of us
[14:02]were able to contribute to on being Jewish now
[14:04]which you came up with and edited
[14:06]and are generously donating the profits
[14:09]to artists against antisemitism.
[14:10]And I just have to say it has been such a silver lining
[14:14]in this really hard time.
[14:16]And in your support and friendship and community
[14:18]that you've created,
[14:20]I'm gonna get emotional.
[14:20]It just really means a lot.
[14:22]It means a lot to me too.
[14:24]It's been quite a time.
[14:26]And you were.
[14:27]You were, no, a fearless leader of really taking
[14:30]this nonprofit to the next level.
[14:33]It's just been amazing to watch.
[14:34]And he's been an ally throughout the whole thing.
[14:38]And she wrote Josie, the character who's Jewish.
[14:41]And she passed a TikTok quiz on Jewish stuff.
[14:44]So I picked up things along the way.
[14:46]Yeah.
[14:47]It's been great.
[14:49]And you know it's interesting
[14:50]because this is our pub days is June 3rd
[14:53]and it's following the incident, the attack and boulder.
[14:56]And I had a moment where it's like,
[14:58]how can I, how can I promote this book
[15:03]when my heart is breaking and we're scared
[15:05]and all these things?
[15:06]And somebody commented about right now
[15:08]we're all living double lives.
[15:09]And like this book, we worked too hard on it.
[15:11]We're too proud of it to like not do our job
[15:14]and like promote it.
[15:15]But I'm like, so like, you know, my heart is breaking
[15:18]but we're excited to be able to share this book
[15:21]and it has Jewish representation.
[15:23]And there's, you know, so just the life we live right now.
[15:27]I think there should be no conflict about putting a book
[15:30]into the world.
[15:31]I was just saying this to the summer reads party
[15:33]that unfortunately you couldn't come to.
[15:34]But if somebody was like, how could I go out
[15:37]with my pub day and I'm like, people need escape more
[15:41]than ever right now.
[15:43]I mean, we all have to find our ways to get through the day
[15:47]and remember the joy of life and love
[15:51]and work we care about and joy and literally happy endings.
[15:57]So I mean, the book is a tonic.
[16:01]It's a respite from the storm.
[16:04]I was literally thinking about posting like,
[16:06]I think I've decided to be the person
[16:09]who plays the violin on the Titanic.
[16:11]So that sounded like too bad
[16:13]because I don't believe we are on the Titanic.
[16:16]You know, I think we can repair and get better.
[16:19]But I've just said it like, you know,
[16:21]you still have to take the joy of life when you have it
[16:25]and whatever comes next, make it a party.
[16:28]So I feel like books are all about that.
[16:31]I love it.
[16:31]And if it a party is hosted by you,
[16:33]I will be there in a, you know what we're,
[16:36]I sat in a post the other day that like,
[16:38]there's nothing more Jewish than celebrating joy and life
[16:41]and love and like, that's what this book is.
[16:43]So it's an honor and it's exciting.
[16:45]And we're so happy to talk to you about it.
[16:47]Yeah, I'm so glad.
[16:48]Do you have a, and you can't say mine,
[16:51]but I would love it.
[16:52]But you know, a favorite or go-to bookstore
[16:54]that you would just be devastated
[16:57]if it were to be gone.
[16:59]All of them.
[17:01]I think that we have, we love so many indie bookstores.
[17:05]Like we love like the ideas of them
[17:07]and they're all so different.
[17:08]We usually say our locals,
[17:10]for me, it's volumes in Chicago.
[17:13]And then I work on an apple, so park books out there.
[17:17]And my local is the King's English and Salt Lake City, Utah.
[17:20]But I have to tell you, we might have a new favorite.
[17:22]This coolest thing happened to us this weekend.
[17:25]A romance bookstore called the ATA boutique in,
[17:29]is it Marion?
[17:30]I think it's Marion, Iowa issued a challenge
[17:34]on social media to another bookstore in their community
[17:37]and challenge them to see who could sell more copies
[17:39]of our book before a pub day.
[17:41]Oh my gosh.
[17:42]It was literally a battle of the bookstores.
[17:45]Oh my gosh.
[17:46]And it benefited us and it benefited them.
[17:48]Yeah, it was amazing.
[17:49]And I think in three days,
[17:50]they sold like 60 copies between them,
[17:52]which are amazing.
[17:53]Or others like us, and for them.
[17:56]So it was ATA boutique and swap box.
[18:01]And that is so cool.
[18:03]So cool.
[18:04]Now all these people in Iowa are reading the book.
[18:06]No, no, no, no, no.
[18:09]Amazing.
[18:10]So what's your next collaborative project going to be?
[18:13]We're still figuring that out and working on it.
[18:15]We're on this tour.
[18:17]We're taking a lot of train rides.
[18:18]We're doing a plane, a couple trains in a road trip.
[18:22]And so we've got our idea that we're really excited about
[18:25]and we're in the early stages.
[18:27]But it'll be bookish and romantic and pantry
[18:31]and anything else we could say about it.
[18:33]I think it's going to be got to be amazing.
[18:36]Well, I must say I really connected to your characters.
[18:39]They were so fun to read.
[18:41]I'm kind of sad to be done with them for now.
[18:43]So thank you for creating such a hard to put down type of read
[18:48]where it with such accessible voices and fun and delayed
[18:52]and all the bookstore stuff that's thrown in,
[18:55]it's just one package.
[18:56]So congratulations.
[18:58]Thank you.
[18:59]Thank you for the inspiration of city's books
[19:01]because we love the store.
[19:03]Yay.
[19:04]All right, enjoy the pub day and the tour
[19:06]and everything and I'll be cheering for you.
[19:08]Thank you.
[19:09]Okay, all right.
[19:10]Bye.
[19:12]Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi,
[19:15]formerly mom's don't have time to read books.
[19:17]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review,
[19:21]follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens
[19:23]and spread the word.
[19:25]Thanks so much.
[19:26]Oh, and bye the books.