Scott Johnston, THE SANDERSONS FAIL MANHATTAN: A Novel

[1:34]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to totally booked with Zibby. Formerly moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibby media dot com, and follow me on Instagram at zibby owens. Scott Johnson is the author of the Sanderson's Fail Manhattan, a novel. Author of the bestseller Campus Land, Scott Johnson grew up in Manhattan and graduated from Yale where he later taught as an adjunct. After graduation, he worked on Wall Street, including a stint in Hong Kong and running a quantitative hedge fund. More recently, Johnson shift gears and cofounded and subsequently sold two tech startups. He lives in Charlottesville, Virginia. Welcome, Scott. Thank you so much for coming on totally booked with Zevi to talk about the Sandersons' fail Manhattan. Congrats. Thank you. And I am sitting here in Manhattan as I am you know, this is like a meta moment as I'm in the scene of the crime here on the Upper East Side. So, yeah, I couldn't Are you sitting in 740 Park? No. No. No. No. Oh. No. No. No. That would be too funny. No. No. No. No. Okay. So tell

[3:06]Scott Johnston: listeners what your book is about. Sure. So the Sandersons are an Upper East Side family and they seemingly have it made. The husband, Will, is already very wealthy, but he's on the cusp of entering the professional stratosphere at his powerful investment firm, Bedrock Capital. He's about to go from wealth to mega wealth and there's always a next level when you're playing this game. His wife, Ellie, is an outsider, having grown up in an itinerant, you know, with an itinerant existence as an army brat. And she's really the emotional center of the novel. Her burning desire is to simply to feel rooted to a community somewhere, something she never got to feel before, especially growing up. So when the family moves to Manhattan, which is where Will grew up and was very much a center of the East part of the establishment. She longs to fit in in the ways one fits in on the Upper East Side, the school committees, the dinner parties, the private clubs, etcetera. Not because she's status hungry, but because she desperately wants to plant roots somewhere to, you know, to belong. Then there are two daughters, both enrolled at one of the top private girls' schools called the Lenox School Lenox Hill School for Girls. Will is scheming to ensure that Ginny, the the older girl, gets into Yale because that's where Sanders has always go. Ginny is fiercely independent, though, and she's driving Will nuts because she seems indifferent to the whole idea. The younger daughter, Zoe, is kind of overlooked most of the time. She's because she's painfully shy, until she meets a new student named Clover who claims, somewhat enigmatically to be, ecosexual, which is someone who has relations with nature. And yes, that that is a real thing. So as you can imagine, nothing works out according to anyone's plan. There's this whole new landscape out there of cultural rules and practices that includes DEI struggle sessions and privilege walks and even corporate wokeism for for will it work. And the Sandersons managed to trip on every landmine there is. Things go very south when the girls school gets a much sought after trans student, that is a boy transitioning to be a girl, who then promptly disappears. The whole city gets caught up in in finding her, and the the Sanderson somehow find themselves in the middle of the story and very publicly in society's crosshairs. And so that's pretty much the setup without giving too much away, but that's where we go.

[5:45]Zibby Owens: And what drew you specifically to this story? I have

[5:49]Scott Johnston: often I started blogging about educational issues years ago and blogged a fair amount about Yale in particular where I gathered we both went and sort of watched this long slow descent into what I would call madness that really dates back to the eighties and nineties, but it has accelerated in in recent years. And in the 2000, 2021 time frame, in the wake of George Floyd, the private schools in New York in particular went utterly insane. They retooled their curricula. They they, they got rid of all the prior principles of the pursuit of truth, came all about identity politics. And because I had this blog called The Naked Dollar, which and I'm not a terribly active blogger even, but I had this blog that I I did write about these things. Someone initially reached out to me about one school, which I can name Dalton, and some crazy stuff happening behind the scenes there, in particular, a, eight page list of demands from the teachers about what the school should do, and they were eight pages of of insanity. So I leaked this. I broke the story on my blog. The thing went completely viral. The Wall Street Journal asked me to do a, an op ed, which I did. And there were several follow-up pieces. The headmaster there ended up getting fired in the wake of the whole thing. But then other people started sending me their crazy stories from the insides of the other schools. So I I had this this serial series series of blogs about, each of the schools. And the naked dollar went utterly viral at that time. We got a million hits in a six week period, which for a little blog that I don't even contribute too much was was crazy. But clearly, I'd hit on something. And then something happened. The spark that caused me to think, you know, maybe there's a novel here. I was in a meeting. The context of that meeting, I'll have to keep to myself. But so in in the blog, I should go back. In the blog, every time I wrote about school, I listed the names of the board members of that school at the bottom of the piece. Like, are the people you could point a finger at if you're upset about this stuff going on. And a woman comes up in this meeting, and everyone likes her. And and I said, you know, I I don't know her, but, you know, she's presiding over a school. She happened to be the the head of the board of one of these schools that I wrote about, that I think has gone nuts. And they're doing an utter disservice to their own community. And that gives me a little pause. And almost immediately, two or three people said, oh, she's perfectly lovely. And here's the thing. She probably is. I've never met her still. But if she were sitting next to at a dinner party, you'd probably say, this is a lovely woman, very successful, clearly, probably very educated and engaging. But she and people like her are presiding over a complete overthrow of Western civilization at at their own schools and the principles of the enlightenment like reason and the pursuit of truth. So I became fixated fixated on this idea of these lovely people, many of whom I know who indeed are really nice people, but they they there's a certain moral carotace, as they sit on these boards and do nothing. They sit on their hands while they watch, the insanity and divisiveness of identity politics, so take over. So I became fixated on idea, and the book became known as All the Lovely People, which I thought was a great title, but St. Martin's Press did not like that title. So it's now just a chapter title, but they they claimed it wasn't a good hook to get to lure readers in. So hopefully, this Sandersons fail Manhattan, gets people to say, who are these Sandersons and why are they failing Manhattan?

[9:37]Zibby Owens: It got me to say that. Oh, good. Yeah. I mean, All the Lovely People is much more generic than than this. So you know what you're getting. I think with books, you have to you have, like, two seconds to capture people's attention. So

[9:52]Scott Johnston: They cited

[9:53]Zibby Owens: Fleischmann's in trouble Mhmm. I've never read, but it's another Manhattan based novel. And apparently, you wanna know why this Fleischmann's in trouble, and the book was a bookseller. So Well, you know, Taffy Brunesser Eichner is also just amazing. You know, she could write about a tree, and I would read it. She's amazing. But, yes, marketing is obviously part of it. Well, I'm sorry. It it hurts to lose a title that you're attached to, so I'm sorry for that. Oh, it's okay. So are you on a school board, or have you ever been?

[10:21]Scott Johnston: Not a school board. No. Very close to lots of people who are and have been. And, I I, I now live in Charlottesville, Virginia, where, there's a lot of craziness going on around the board there at UVA. So I just I get upset that you know, what happens is people feel compromised. You're on a board and maybe you wanna say something. Maybe you wanna raise your hand and say, you know, wait a minute. Is this is this right? But your kids at that school, and maybe they're a rising senior, and Brittany has to get into Harvard, and you're afraid you won't get a good recommendation. And it's a legitimate fear, actually. The administrations at these schools have become quite vindictive against people who fall out of line, and the parent contracts are written in such a way that if you sort of publicly fall out of line, with with everything that's going on, you you can be asked to leave. You simply are deemed not a good fit anymore.

[11:17]Zibby Owens: Wow. So, I mean, you write so sort of searingly about the politics of society and, like, stations in life and and all of that and sort of the awareness of who you are and, what it means and like optics, I guess. Optics play a big role. Talk a little bit about that. Well,

[11:37]Scott Johnston: most people are concerned with status and how they're perceived by others. And I guess I I was very inspired and sometimes get compared to, which is flattering to Tom Wolfe, who famously looked at everyone's vanities. Funny side story, when I was a young pup right out of college in my first, job on Wall Street, he spent two days on my trading desk, at Solomon Brothers researching bonfire, which was a real kick for me. And, you know, it was interesting. It was clear from the questions he was asking. He didn't know anything about what was going on. But then the book came out, and he clearly listened very well.

[12:19]Zibby Owens: So anyway, it it's always, it's always great to analyze people's motives and and vanities, if you will. And what do you think? It sounds like you have a very strong point of view on what schools and education boards and all that should be doing in the in the face of identity politics and all the rest. What do what do you think schools should be doing in this time? Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated, but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and 365 returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[14:56]Scott Johnston: Well, the boards need to stand up, and and Barry Weiss too has been very vocal about this. She's great. The boards need to stand up and take control because mostly they've been vanity boards. You go on a school board and you're you're thrilled with yourself for the status that that conveys and people approach you about getting their kid into that school and it feels good. Mostly these boards, and this is the college level too, in fact, maybe more so on the college level, don't really do anything. They, they're vanity boards. They sit there and, receive information from the administration, but their strings are completely pulled by the school presidents and other administrators. And some really awful stuff is happening. I mean, race theory, if you spend five minutes trying to understand what it really is, is a horrible ideology. And it's being taught as as dogma at some of the best schools, elementary schools in the country. They're also being taught to to hate our own country, which I think is abhorrent. And the boards are doing essentially zero about this because, again, you know, maybe Britney, maybe the adjective used in her recommendation for Harvard goes from outstanding to above average, and that kills you right there. So there are legitimate concerns that people could pay a price for standing up. But that price compared to some of the other periods in in world history, you know, the the cost for standing up to, you know, the the Nazis in the thirties, for instance, or or the ayatollahs in Iran in the in the eighties and nineties are are vanishingly small. So I do get upset that people seem to,

[16:47]Zibby Owens: lack any moral courage about these things. Tell me about a time you've stood up for something you believed in.

[16:53]Scott Johnston: Well, I really got into it over the school. My my oldest kid was going to in the up in Westchester County, and we we went went toe to toe with them. And for a time, it was an extremely uncomfortable situation because all the other parents were who, by the way, who didn't necessarily disagree with me and and my wife, but they were upset we were rocking the boat. Mhmm. That's really what it came down to. No one wants to rock the boat. But I really looked into the situation of what was going on at that school. And, and and this is way back in, like, the aughts. And it was it was horrible what was what was being taught and what was not being taught. So that was a very, very uncomfortable situation for us for for a year or two. And we finally left that school and found one we liked, which is hard to do from where I sit these Wow.

[17:46]Zibby Owens: So taking all of that, how did you come at the Sanderson's Fail Manhattan? What do you want people

[17:54]Scott Johnston: to think and feel when they finish reading the book? I want them to have fun. Same with my first novel, Campus Land, which was a thinly veiled send up of Yale. I want them to laugh, hopefully out loud a few times, and and I want it to be a fun ride. But I also want them to learn a couple things along the way. And you have to be careful about that as an author because if you're really trying to spoon feed people a point of view, they generally don't take it very well. So it you have to do that with a little subtlety and maybe wrap it in a whole lot of fun. But I'd like people I I mean, my first novel, I wanted people to understand what was going on with the abuse of title nine on campuses and some other issues. And and here, I'd like people to understand about these completely laying boards and the insanity that of what's happening in private schools, which by the way has been dialed back a tiny bit. But, you know, the pendulum has maybe swung back, but only just a little. So so yeah. What are you focused on next? Do you have a new book that you're writing, a new thing that you're thinking about a lot? I have two half half written books. One is this end up of the art world, which is a little different. Sometimes it's difficult to satirize something that's already self satirical, which the art world very much is. And the other is a road novel called The Ashes, which, is about two brothers forced to set out on the American road to find the right place to spread their father's ashes, and they Mhmm. Are only given thirty days by their father to do it. They were estranged from him as well. And otherwise, they don't inherit. So they're forced to spend time with each other, and the father speaks to them through a GPS enabled Sure. That sits in their car as they travel the the American roads and are forced to go to the world's largest ball of twine and other things.

[19:46]Zibby Owens: So, I'm having some fun with that. Have you seen the play, the Lucky Stiff or Lucky Stiff? No. It's I mean, my daughter's school just put it on, so I have just seen it. But, it's it's sort of similar that you know, the the the voice from the past literally through a tape recorder is telling the people what to do and all the experiences they have to have. Oh, interesting. Well, you know, I hit on the idea of a tape of a, you know, Bluetooth speaker being GPS enabled, and that that technology does exist. Yeah. No. It's it's it's like a modernized version. I'm sure it's completely different, but just, you know, it's this funny from the grave sort of direction because don't we all kind of want to be able to dictate things forever? Okay. Well, what advice do you have for aspiring authors?

[20:32]Scott Johnston: Well, I I don't know. I'm probably I don't know if I'm a good person, Eskie, or not. I didn't I I never thought about being a a novelist, honestly, until some crazy stuff happened at Yale that I thought, oh, this there's someone's gotta write a novel about this. So I did Campus Land. I would say you need to hook readers early. You need to and it's amazing how many books fail to do this. You need to give them within a chapter or two at most the reason they're reading that book and wanna keep reading. I would always end chapters with a little bit of a tease or a hang. Again, keep reading keep readers moving forward. I would do what I do, which is anytime you hear someone say funny or have a great turn of a phrase, write it down in your notes app and your phone because you'll never know how you might be able to use that someday. So in fact, sometimes a funny turn of a phrase can turn into a whole chapter of a book. And the last thing, and this is literally what I said after I write my first novel, like, you know, Googling, like, how do you write a novel? It's kind of a mystery to me. It seemed like this incredibly complex endeavor. And one bit of advice I stumbled on, and I don't remember who said this, but I thought it was great, of all the endings you can imagine, choose the one that is the most outrageous and yet still plausible. I

[21:53]Zibby Owens: definitely took that to heart. Love it. Okay. Well, Scott, thank you so much to Sanderson's Fail Manhattan. Thank you, for shining a light on on this part of the world, so to speak, and congrats. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Okay. Thanks. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.