Anna Todd, THE LAST SUNRISE
[0:00]Hi, this is Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Totally Book to Zibi.
[0:06]Formerly, moms don't have time to read books.
[0:08]In my daily show, I interview today's latest, best-selling, buzziest, or underrated authors
[0:14]and story creators, whose work I think is worth your time.
[0:18]As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously a podcaster, I get a comprehensive
[0:24]look at everything that's coming up, and spend my time curating the best books, so you
[0:29]you don't have to.
[0:30]Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests, like I do, every single
[0:35]day.
[0:36]For more information, go to zibimedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens.
[0:44]Anna Todd is the author of the last sunrise.
[0:48]She is a writer, producer, and influencer, and is the New York Times bestselling author
[0:52]of the after-series, the brightest stars trilogy, the spring girls, and the after-graphic
[0:58]novels.
[0:59]The after-series has been released in 35 languages, and has sold over 12 million copies
[1:04]worldwide, becoming a number one bestseller in several countries.
[1:08]Always an avid reader, Anna began writing stories on her phone through Wattpad, with
[1:12]after becoming the platform's most read series with over two billion reads.
[1:17]She has served as a producer and screenwriter on the film adaptations of after, and after
[1:22]we collided, producer on the upcoming film Regretting You, and in 2017, she founded the
[1:28]Entertainment Company, Frayed Pages Media, to produce innovative and creative work across
[1:33]film television and publishing.
[1:35]A native of Ohio, she lives with her family in Los Angeles.
[1:38]Welcome, Anna.
[1:39]Thank you so much for coming on totally back to discuss the last sunrise, congrats.
[1:44]Thank you so much.
[1:45]It feels like it's been five years in the making, and now it's out in like a week and
[1:49]a half.
[1:50]And I'm like, okay, the glory of the publishing world.
[1:57]Those, those, those jitters, right before the books come out are pretty, pretty bad.
[2:01]Yeah, every time, like as soon as I turn it in, I'm like, or right before I turn it,
[2:05]I'm like, this happens with every book.
[2:07]It's like, oh, this is the best book I've ever written.
[2:09]And then I send it over and I'm like, oh, no, it's not ready.
[2:11]It's the worst book I've ever written.
[2:13]And then it goes back and forth.
[2:14]And then like the week before publishing, I'm like, I can't believe I'm letting this out in the
[2:17]world and just loop, plus you can't take it back.
[2:21]Like you can't change your time at some point, it's out, and it's beyond your control,
[2:25]and there's nothing you can do.
[2:26]Yeah.
[2:27]Am I making you feel better?
[2:28]Yes.
[2:29]Definitely.
[2:30]Absolutely.
[2:31]Behind the written under the sweater.
[2:34]Well, this is, this is not your first rodeo, so to speak.
[2:38]Talk about the last sunrise.
[2:40]And then I want you to tell me about how you got your start on Wattpad and this really
[2:44]creative way you've built your whole brand.
[2:46]Okay.
[2:47]So the last sunrise is a, it's, let's see, it was a story that came from first of
[2:55]it was a film idea.
[2:57]I really wanted to tell a story about a person with the same condition that my son
[3:02]has.
[3:03]It's called tuberous chlorosins, the main character, Rariah has it.
[3:07]Not as severely as my son, but she has it.
[3:09]I didn't want to over, you know, do it to where people felt uncomfortable or felt like
[3:15]too much sick lit, you know, but I also wanted to tell the story and bring a little bit
[3:20]of awareness while also making people swoon and have this setting that's like impossible
[3:25]to not fall in love with.
[3:26]So I sold it as a film idea and at first I was like, I don't know if I can emotionally
[3:32]write a story given the ending I originally wanted.
[3:35]I was like, I don't know if I can do that just because it's so close to home.
[3:39]And then as the scripts started progressing, I was like, wait, actually like all these
[3:43]little things were popping in my head and I was like, okay, I'm going to write it.
[3:47]And then I wrote it and it was actually really therapeutic, but also really fun because
[3:53]it's not all just about this, you know, medical condition that she has.
[3:57]There's like first love and really I was really happy with the storyline between her
[4:02]and her mother.
[4:03]I love writing parent children relationships, especially when the children are coming
[4:08]into the adult world.
[4:10]So that was really fun for me and then to have without a spoiler to have like two parallel
[4:15]love stories.
[4:16]Like it's just really new for me, even though it's romance and it's angsty and it's
[4:21]Vietnamese lovers, but it still feels like a very new fresh story that I've never written.
[4:26]Wow.
[4:27]Well, the medical part, it was interesting how you did it because you don't come out on
[4:30]page one and say like, this is it.
[4:33]It's told from the first person living with this disease and you have to figure it out.
[4:38]Like her mom's saying like, wait, did you take your meds and you know something's going on,
[4:42]but you don't know exactly what and that's part of the intrigue.
[4:45]They keep it going and it's not in your face.
[4:48]And yet there are enough references that you know something is happening.
[4:51]So I tried to be like kind of delicate with it.
[4:55]Like I didn't want it to feel like a PSA like a closer book and Google something.
[4:59]Like I don't I didn't want to feel like that, but I wanted it to feel like something's
[5:04]going on here and I don't know what that is.
[5:07]And so how does this disease affect your son?
[5:10]He has epilepsy, pretty severe epilepsy.
[5:14]He has autism, pretty severe autism, around 85 to 90% of people with this condition
[5:20]have autism.
[5:21]So kind of goes hand in hand, the autism is like the daily stuff and the developmental
[5:26]delays.
[5:27]The epilepsy is also daily, but it's controlled by medication for the most part.
[5:31]He still does have seizures, but I would say the autism is like the heavy hitter in the
[5:36]household.
[5:38]And then he has some kidney problems.
[5:41]He's tubers that I talk about in the book.
[5:43]My son has them kind of all over his body.
[5:47]Unlike Ryan, she's mostly just in her brain.
[5:51]And then while I was writing this book, I found out that I kind of knew with like a mother's
[5:55]instant.
[5:56]I knew that I was carrying the gene because I started thinking about having more kids.
[6:01]And I was, you know, I've been separated and now divorced for a long time.
[6:06]I'm in a totally new relationship and we're like, life planning and I'm like, I have
[6:11]a feeling that this condition comes from my son, the family, even just looking at my
[6:16]relatives and undiagnosed stuff going on.
[6:19]I'm like, I just have a feeling that like it's kind of a joke, but it's not a joke, but
[6:23]it's like the way to deal with stuff is humor is like, I'm like my mammal who's my
[6:27]grandma's like the hub, I'm convinced she's like the hub of this thing.
[6:32]So I got genetic testing done and I already knew, but I was definitely still quite the
[6:39]hit emotionally to be like, okay, now I know for sure that I do carry this gene that
[6:45]I passed on unknowingly to my child and now his life is hard because of me.
[6:50]So it was this big loop of like, thank goodness for therapy and like, you know, being able
[6:56]to walk myself through these phases of grief.
[6:59]But I was like, okay, so now what it was, yeah, I'd while writing this.
[7:05]So that was probably not like, I would change the timeline around a little because then
[7:09]I was like, you know what, now I'm going to have her mom also carry the gene.
[7:12]So it's, yeah, and once you, there's two sides, not to be able to replace, but there's,
[7:17]you know, spontaneous, you can have this condition spontaneously or it can be passed down.
[7:25]And but once you have it, like my son, for example, he, even developmentally, he likely
[7:30]won't ever have children anyways, but he 100% would pass it down to his child since
[7:35]I have the gene, but it's not, it's more of a recessive gene.
[7:39]It's not guaranteed that my child would always have it, but asher does.
[7:44]So I'm like, okay, we've got a lot of planning to do in this house, but I wanted to talk
[7:51]about it without being in your face a lot of, but it definitely affects our life every
[7:56]day.
[7:57]And sometimes they forget that, you know, I never heard of it.
[7:58]I mean, I was also 21 year old mother who'd never heard of most medical conditions,
[8:03]but I had never heard of it.
[8:05]And I most people know one of my family, none of my friends, like whenever I'm, like,
[8:08]telling them about asher's condition, no one's ever heard of it.
[8:12]So it's not very common unless you know someone who has it.
[8:16]So you had your first baby at 21, how did that, were you married?
[8:22]Let's, let's, let's get into that.
[8:24]So I'm married right out of high school, like a month out of high school, which I don't
[8:29]recommend, but I'm also glad I did it.
[8:31]My boyfriend at the time, we'd known each other since we were like 14.
[8:36]He was going into the army.
[8:37]I was like, I've got to get out of Ohio.
[8:39]I'm not going to get myself into student loan debt.
[8:42]And my parents are very anti-establishment when it comes to like college or any, like, taking
[8:46]anything from the government or getting into any kind of loans or any, like, they didn't
[8:51]even have debit cards until like very recently, which is, yeah, they're very much like,
[8:56]well, now I'm like, you know what?
[8:59]But I might just remember me like, okay, well, I guess I'm not going to go to college
[9:03]because they can afford it.
[9:04]I'm not going to get into debt.
[9:06]So I was like, at least I can get out of my tiny town where there's a lot of drugs and
[9:10]a lot of just like trauma and all this stuff that I was like, I just want to get out.
[9:15]So I got married to a soldier.
[9:17]He joined the army.
[9:18]I always knew he was going to join the army since I met him.
[9:21]Move to Texas was a waitress.
[9:23]I didn't, I know what I was going to do with my life, but I just knew why I'd rather
[9:26]be a waitress in Texas than be a waitress in my hometown and see me why I would die
[9:30]school with every day.
[9:32]And I'm like, I can figure out something.
[9:33]I started doing, it's definitely not legal, but maybe not a legal, I started doing people's
[9:39]makeup on Craigslist with no training whatsoever, like just army wives, it would paint me
[9:43]to do their makeup.
[9:44]And I worked at Ulta beauty.
[9:46]So I would use like the samples and stuff and I'm like, I'm always just kind of finding
[9:51]a way.
[9:52]Like if there's no way, I'm that person that's like, we will find a way for something.
[9:55]I like, no, it's not in my vocabulary.
[9:58]I'm just like always, I hate the word, huh?
[10:00]sling because it's like, especially now it's a 36 woman.
[10:02]I'm like, I'm done hustling.
[10:04]Like I want to work and continue to build a brand,
[10:06]but like this hustle culture is like not,
[10:08]I want like a slow, peaceful life while also having a career.
[10:12]But I got married.
[10:15]I was married for a couple of years.
[10:16]Everyone kept asking, when do you even have a baby?
[10:18]And I'm like, I'm literally 21.
[10:20]Like what are you talking about?
[10:22]And then my husband at the time went to Iraq for the third time.
[10:27]And two days later, I found out I was pregnant.
[10:30]So and I did all the things I was on birth control as all the things.
[10:34]And I was like, OK, let's weigh the options here.
[10:37]But I just like, I'm like, I just instinct, I don't know.
[10:42]I just was like, the only option is to have the baby,
[10:44]even though that's probably not the advice I would give like a friend.
[10:47]But for me, I was like, this is, I'm doing it alone.
[10:50]So he was gone the whole pregnancy.
[10:52]I went to every doctor's appointment by myself.
[10:54]I went to every like breathing class by myself.
[10:57]Every like learned how to breastfeed class by myself while working two jobs.
[11:02]I worked overnight for the IRS.
[11:04]And then I worked at a Logan's Roadhouse.
[11:07]Like, yeah, wait, you're seeing.
[11:10]And then I worked until I had him.
[11:13]And then my husband at the time did make it to come home.
[11:17]Him and his mom, I'm really close with his mom still in him.
[11:20]Actually, it was very immacole divorce.
[11:22]But him and his mom kind of forced me to go to a high-o to have my son
[11:27]because I didn't have any family in Texas.
[11:29]And I didn't really have any friends.
[11:30]But I'm at the time, it's funny now being in a different relationship.
[11:34]I'm not hyper independent, but I've always been extremely hyper independent.
[11:39]So I was like, I don't need anyone here.
[11:41]Like, I'm going to have the baby by myself.
[11:43]Like, this is where I live.
[11:44]I don't want to travel and have a baby and then be around like,
[11:47]chaos and everyone's like wanting to come see the way.
[11:50]It's like felt like a lot.
[11:51]But I was kind of like too against one.
[11:54]And I was like, you know what?
[11:54]It would be like if something went wrong or, you know, you never know.
[11:58]So I went to a high-o had my son and then we like on his actual due date.
[12:04]And then about two days later, we were walking through the grocery store.
[12:07]And his face turned blue.
[12:10]And I'm like, oh my gosh, so I'm immediately thinking I'm choking him in his little
[12:14]like car seat thing because I don't know how to even work it barely at this point.
[12:19]So I like loosen the straps and I'm like, wait, it's already loose.
[12:22]So we take him immediately to the hospital and they're like, oh, newborns,
[12:26]just forget how to breathe.
[12:27]I'm like, well, that's not acceptable answer.
[12:30]So went to a different hospital.
[12:32]And then they were like, let's just wait and see, you know,
[12:35]if something else happens, go home for now, whatever.
[12:38]So within like two more hours later, he was blue again.
[12:41]And I was like, we went to the Children's Hospital in Dayton, Ohio,
[12:45]which is actually really great considering.
[12:47]Ohio families from there, by the way.
[12:49]Oh, really, that's where I ran up.
[12:51]Really? Oh my gosh.
[12:53]Yeah, born and raised.
[12:54]I'm going there like next weekend for my mammals wedding.
[12:57]She's 81 and getting married again.
[12:59]I wonder if she knows my grandparents.
[13:01]Well, anyway, keep going.
[13:02]Probably honestly, it's such a small place that just won't happen.
[13:05]So we go to Dayton Children's and I'm like, basically, I'm not leaving until we figure out why
[13:09]my son's face is true.
[13:10]It's bigger than like not being able to breathe or whatever.
[13:14]It's like something, I'm not leaving, basically.
[13:16]So they let us stay.
[13:18]They do all these tests on him.
[13:20]I can still remember him like screaming.
[13:23]They can't figure out anything.
[13:25]And then they do an MRI finally because I was like, I don't care what,
[13:29]because they're like, we're not sure if your insurance will cover it.
[13:31]I'm like, my husband deployed three times.
[13:33]And the only good thing about this is the insurance.
[13:36]Give us the MRI.
[13:37]That's pretty.
[13:38]So we just, my husband was just kind of like, yeah.
[13:41]And I'm like, this is like, we're not leaving.
[13:43]So we get the MRI and thank goodness they did it because then a couple like an hour later,
[13:49]this guy who works on the phone polls, they are basically like, technician comes over.
[13:54]And he's like, so I was told that your son has two sclerosis and which they hadn't even
[14:00]told us yet.
[14:02]And my daughter also has it and he's like, I've always told them if anyone else
[14:07]comes with the markers of this condition to, you know, come find me or if I'm not working
[14:12]call me because I, he's like, just a good dad who's like, been through it without any help basically.
[14:17]So he knows that we're already.
[14:19]So in hindsight, I'm like, I'm so glad he was the one that like told us about this.
[14:24]Because then when the doctors came in, they were like, Canada's pamphlets on like,
[14:27]mental retardation and all this like, just the waste stuff was worded was so vile anyways.
[14:33]And the way it was handled was like, not to mention my husband is about to go back to Iraq.
[14:38]And like, it's, there was so much going on.
[14:41]So we're like, okay, and that guy ended up being like his name is Michael.
[14:45]He ended up being such a resource for like the first few years of Astra's life, honestly.
[14:49]And we're like, still friends on Facebook.
[14:50]But they basically told us like, all these worst case scenarios.
[14:53]And I was like, okay, whatever it is, we're not doing it here.
[14:57]We're going back to Texas, like we're driving back.
[14:59]So we drove back with a newborn baby with epilepsy.
[15:02]They realized it was seizures that he was having.
[15:05]And at this point, until he was like, too, he was having like 50 a day.
[15:09]So it's like, you know, I'm stopped like, that's so terrifying.
[15:13]Completely not stuff.
[15:15]That's we were like, how did you have time to write a book on your phone?
[15:18]I'm like, because all I could do is stare at my child and wait for the next seizure.
[15:22]Like, that's like my life.
[15:23]I couldn't work anymore.
[15:24]And even in military income, it's like, we couldn't afford for me to have a special
[15:29]ed or a special needs nanny or a babysitter or daycare.
[15:33]It's like, there's so many issues within that anyways.
[15:37]But I was like, well, looks like I'm going to be a state home mom, which is
[15:40]everyone has their own path, but that's just not what I ever expected mine to be.
[15:45]So I was like, you know what, if I'm going to do that, I'm at least going to have a hobby.
[15:48]So I picked up reading more and more and more.
[15:50]And then I started writing on what pad and no one was reading it at first.
[15:54]Of course, by day and care.
[15:55]I was like, this is my thing.
[15:56]Everything else in my life is about doctors and babies and diapers and deployments and army stuff
[16:01]and all this.
[16:02]My parents stepped like, so many things went on.
[16:05]So I was like, this is my thing and no one knew about it.
[16:07]I didn't even tell my husband about it.
[16:09]The first person I told was my mother-in-law.
[16:11]And that was only after I got contacted for publishing the all because I was like,
[16:16]okay, where there were, it's not going to be easy to hide this anymore.
[16:20]And she was obviously like massively supportive.
[16:22]And then met with some publishers basically.
[16:25]And then they pitched why I should sell my book to them, which at the time I was like,
[16:30]is this a book?
[16:31]Like, what do you mean?
[16:32]Like, I don't have any formal training.
[16:33]I just love to read and I love to tell stories.
[16:35]But like, mostly in the like verbal form.
[16:38]I'm not so much of a writer.
[16:40]I don't have any reason to think I should be a writer.
[16:43]And my idea of what a writer was as a reader was so different than now where I'm like,
[16:47]actually a writer just means you like to write and you write it down.
[16:50]But at the time, I was like, there's all these rules that you have to go by and you have to like,
[16:55]I remember my first couple of author events who were being like, what's your alumni?
[16:59]I am like, Waffle House, the Waffle House a long time in my teens.
[17:03]But it was very much a new world for me.
[17:06]But I feel like I kind of snuck into this big publishing deal.
[17:11]And it definitely changed my life in a million ways.
[17:14]But my son's life especially.
[17:17]Oh my gosh.
[17:18]What a story.
[17:19]So your son is what like 16, 15?
[17:21]Is it like 13?
[17:22]13, okay.
[17:23]There's 13 going on like 70, I swear.
[17:27]We went to the doctor yesterday for a kidney appointment, just like a standard
[17:30]kidney one.
[17:31]And they're like, he's five, six and a half.
[17:33]I'm five, two.
[17:35]He's so big.
[17:36]And then he'll be like, he'll like try to sit on my lap.
[17:38]And I'm like, because mentally he's around like three to four-ish.
[17:42]And then sometimes in certain areas, he's older.
[17:44]But I'm like, he thinks he's like a baby.
[17:47]And he's always like, oh mom, like hug me.
[17:50]And then I'll like lay on me.
[17:51]And I'm like, I can't breathe.
[17:53]But he's, yeah, he's 13.
[17:55]But he's like towers every now.
[17:57]So it's crazy.
[17:59]And then when did you end up getting divorced?
[18:01]I got officially divorced, which is another like
[18:05]gripe I have with the state of California.
[18:07]It took so long.
[18:08]I've been separated for four years.
[18:10]But we had like properties and a trust and all this stuff.
[18:13]So it just took so long.
[18:15]So I'm technically only been divorced a few months.
[18:17]But I've been I've only seen my ex has been in person to like take my son to him
[18:22]and that in the last four years.
[18:24]So I'm like, I've been in a relationship for pretty much four years.
[18:27]But also separated for four years.
[18:29]So the timeline is not also not what I expected.
[18:32]Because when I first got divorced, I was like,
[18:34]or separated.
[18:35]I was like, oh, it's just giving me an ash.
[18:38]My son's in danger.
[18:39]It's giving me an ash.
[18:40]And everything's going to be like easy.
[18:42]And my ex is a great person.
[18:44]But I cannot like have two children.
[18:47]And my life is just so different now than it was when we were first married.
[18:51]And I'm different.
[18:51]I feel like I've been 10 different women.
[18:54]And he's been the same guy, which is a great guy.
[18:57]But just not the same as what I would date now or what I would want in my life now.
[19:02]So it was very scary, honestly, though, because I've been married half of my life.
[19:06]And I had this idea in my head that if I stay married,
[19:11]like imagine I could tell my grandkids, you know, when they're seven or when I'm 70,
[19:16]I can say I've been married for 50 years.
[19:18]And it's like, I kept holding on to that little thing.
[19:21]And I'm like, that's not enough.
[19:23]Like, that's the ideal, like this ideology of what romance was to me.
[19:28]It was like, yeah, but what if you just, I don't know, start over.
[19:33]And maybe there is a different, like now I'm like, wow, I definitely, there's such
[19:40]like, I don't even know how to explain the massive difference.
[19:43]And like having a partner who is just gets me and in a shorter amount of time,
[19:49]and a language barrier in the middle, and parenting with someone, you know,
[19:54]that's very emotionally mature.
[19:55]It's just like, it's life changing.
[19:57]But my plan at first was to either be single.
[20:00]or marry a 50-something-year-old man who already has kids.
[20:04]I was like, I'm not going out dating,
[20:06]which is kind of funny because this was the first guy
[20:09]that I met on accident after my separation.
[20:13]And then now I'm going to be marrying him.
[20:15]So I'm definitely a monogamy kind of lady.
[20:18]Like I don't need to find out what's out there.
[20:21]So my friends were like, don't you want to date
[20:23]and whatever you've been married your whole life?
[20:24]No, absolutely not.
[20:26]I see from their experience, I'm like,
[20:28]I got really lucky, like I don't need to see what else
[20:32]is out there because what I have is better than I ever imagined.
[20:35]So I'm not made.
[20:37]I'm always like, I'm not made for the streets.
[20:38]I'm made for like 8 p.m. bedtimes, 6 a.m. Pilates.
[20:43]That's it.
[20:45]And what is the language barrier?
[20:47]Korean.
[20:48]Interesting.
[20:49]Yeah.
[20:49]It's definitely less of a barrier now,
[20:51]but when we first started talking,
[20:53]the way we met was he was supposed to be teaching me Korean
[20:57]for content reasons because I started producing stuff.
[20:59]And I really, really into Korean romance dramas.
[21:02]So I was like, I need to learn language more.
[21:04]So I sent it for this app that's like,
[21:06]kind of language trading.
[21:08]And then we just, I thought he was in Korea
[21:10]and he didn't really like, he knew I was in the States,
[21:12]but he was like, I didn't really care
[21:14]kind of to know where you were.
[21:16]It was like a very transactional thing.
[21:18]And then we kept like kind of talking
[21:21]about everything besides language.
[21:23]And then he basically was like,
[21:25]because very, very direct without any like,
[21:28]now I'm so used to it, but he's like,
[21:30]our relationship is inappropriate.
[21:31]So either we should go on a date
[21:33]or we should not be like spending all this time talking
[21:36]to each other.
[21:37]And I was like, okay, all right.
[21:41]So which one do we do?
[21:43]And then we like hung out one time
[21:46]and then now it's literally been four years
[21:48]and we're like living together.
[21:49]We're pretty much inseparable.
[21:50]So what a whirlwind.
[21:53]Wow.
[21:54]What a story.
[21:55]And in the meantime, your own career is like blowing up
[21:58]and you got onto social media right away
[22:01]and that got big cause of what I've had
[22:02]and then you started your own imprint.
[22:04]Like tell me about all that.
[22:06]Yeah.
[22:07]So basically once I learned, I mean,
[22:09]you'll never learn everything about publishing,
[22:11]but once I learned a little bit more
[22:12]than what I knew from what Pat about publishing,
[22:15]I was like every time I went to the bookstore
[22:17]because when you're on what Pat,
[22:18]it's like, you have unlimited access to so many stories
[22:21]and so many different kinds of writers.
[22:23]And I felt like at the time when I went into a bookstore,
[22:25]it was like the same couple names just a new book.
[22:28]And I'm like, as much as I love their books,
[22:31]I'm reading at a rate that's like,
[22:32]they're not able to keep up with.
[22:34]The bookstores aren't able to keep up with
[22:36]and it's like, they already know it's gonna work.
[22:38]So that's all they're kind of putting on their shelves.
[22:40]So I was like, we need something between Wattpad
[22:43]where it's like free for all and bookstores
[22:46]and like publishing houses.
[22:47]So I told my agent slash,
[22:50]she's kind of like a second mom to me now,
[22:52]but I was like, I would love to have an imprint
[22:54]by the time I'm 40 because I heard,
[22:56]I once I was walking through a sermon,
[22:58]she started, I listened to everyone's conversations.
[23:01]Like, I'm telling you when I'm at a restaurant,
[23:03]I don't care how many, 20 conversations
[23:05]I'm listening to all of them at the same exact time.
[23:07]Like it's sometimes I'm like,
[23:09]that's, it took me a little bit to realize
[23:12]not everyone does that.
[23:13]But I was listening to these people talking the whole way
[23:16]about this baseball player who has an imprint
[23:19]and they were talking about him choosing
[23:21]or like approving books.
[23:23]And I was like, what on earth does a baseball player
[23:24]have to do with books?
[23:25]Like that doesn't even make any sense.
[23:27]So I asked my editor and he's like,
[23:28]oh, it's basically like a business venture
[23:30]where he signs off on these books and gets in publish.
[23:32]And I was like, why aren't like readers doing that?
[23:35]Or why aren't like romance authors doing that?
[23:37]Or why aren't women, especially doing that?
[23:40]I mean, he's like, well, there's a couple,
[23:41]but I was like, well, are they getting paid as much as he is?
[23:45]I mean, I know he has a name, but it's like,
[23:48]so I in that like struck something me where I was like,
[23:50]okay, if he can do it, I can do it somehow.
[23:53]I don't know how, but I'm going to figure it out later.
[23:55]So I told my agent this and then I'm kind of worked backward
[23:59]of like, who do we go to?
[24:00]Do we go to like the big five for the simpren
[24:03]or do we start small and then sell it later to a big five?
[24:07]And I really wanted to be very involved
[24:08]and I wanted it.
[24:09]I didn't want to just stick my name on something
[24:12]and then like approve a book every once in a while.
[24:15]So we decided to go back kind of to my roots to Wattpad
[24:18]and I just asked them,
[24:20]basically like, would you guys want to basically fund
[24:23]and do an imprint with me?
[24:25]And they were like, yeah.
[24:27]And I was like, okay, right.
[24:30]So where do we start?
[24:32]It was a way faster than I expected
[24:34]and it happened like five years earlier than I expected,
[24:36]but I'm really proud of the authors that we have
[24:39]and the team keeps growing
[24:41]and just really cool to go in a bookstore
[24:43]and see people that we've gotten some off the platform
[24:47]and then some just submissions.
[24:49]So it's been really cool to give these voices
[24:52]their books and stores because that's,
[24:55]you know, the hardest part usually.
[24:57]Wow.
[24:58]And then it winded frayed pages coming back.
[25:01]So frayed pages, the production side came
[25:04]when I was on set for the after series,
[25:08]which was my first one that I wrote on Wattpad,
[25:10]got turned into a movie.
[25:12]And I had the kind of the same thought process
[25:14]where I was like, first of all, this is a mess.
[25:17]And second of all, it doesn't need to be like all the problems
[25:21]that were happening were like so easily fixed.
[25:23]And I was like, there's like 10 people here doing nothing,
[25:26]not problem solving, but they're making tons of money.
[25:29]When first of all, this was like my literal idea.
[25:33]And this would be so easy.
[25:34]Like just saw like, it just blew my mind
[25:37]how like inept some of the people were.
[25:40]So I was like, okay, if these dudes who clearly don't know
[25:43]anything about what women want to watch,
[25:45]they don't even care enough.
[25:46]They're like barely even, they're literally just sitting there
[25:49]and like eating Cheetos all day.
[25:50]So I was like, okay, if they can do it, I can do it.
[25:53]So I asked my business manager like I called him while I was there.
[25:56]I was like, how do I open a production company?
[25:59]And then how do I kind of like backward negotiate
[26:02]for my production company to get a credit on this movie?
[26:04]Because now I'm rewriting pages.
[26:07]I'm managing the personalities of all the actors.
[26:10]I'm problem solving all day every day.
[26:12]Well, everyone else is kind of just vibing out.
[26:15]So I just started it.
[26:18]And then I was really involved in the casting.
[26:20]And that was before the obviously casting came before filming.
[26:24]But during the casting, one of the casting directors
[26:27]was telling me like, you really have a good instinct
[26:30]for the talent.
[26:31]Like she was like, if you weren't an author,
[26:33]I would tell you to be a casting director
[26:35]because all the people that I was recommending
[26:38]or being like, no, they have it.
[26:39]There was always one of the producers
[26:41]who was obviously like an older man
[26:43]who had like very inappropriate things to say
[26:45]about all the young girls.
[26:46]But he kept saying like, no to this one, no to that one.
[26:49]And then basically every single person that I said,
[26:51]we should cast ended up on like euphoria
[26:54]or stranger thing or like these shows
[26:56]that I'm like, really, so I'm really happy with the cast.
[27:00]We did get especially the two main leads.
[27:02]But I was like, I need to stop listening
[27:05]to these opinions from people that I wouldn't even ask
[27:08]for directions.
[27:10]Okay.
[27:11]And so now, so now why would you be worried
[27:15]about this book coming out?
[27:16]You've built up this whole network of people
[27:19]who respect what you've done, which is formidable, right?
[27:22]It is not as easy as you make it sound like,
[27:24]oh, I'm just like writing on my phone on one pad
[27:26]next week, you know, seven and two circles.
[27:27]Like this is like a dream story
[27:29]that most people don't get to live out.
[27:31]So it's amazing that you did this
[27:33]in the face of all the stress you had in your life.
[27:36]It's like truly awesome.
[27:39]And now you're still writing and producing
[27:41]and publishing other people's things.
[27:44]So this book in particular, the last sunrise,
[27:47]what are you hoping people get out of this book?
[27:49]I'm hoping they get first of all,
[27:51]I want them to just get it a little bit of a scape.
[27:54]There are some, you know, because it does place in my orca
[27:58]and in real life, there is a problem with tourists
[28:00]like destroying an island.
[28:01]So there are some political themes,
[28:03]but I do want them to feel like they're escaping the world,
[28:07]especially right now, we could all use a little escapism.
[28:10]So I want the escapism, I want them to feel like
[28:12]they're falling in love for the first time.
[28:15]I just want them to, I try really hard
[28:18]when it comes to my characters to at least have like
[28:20]a couple of conversations that I feel like
[28:22]everyone should have in the world.
[28:24]It's almost like my way of like, they're pausing my readers.
[28:27]Where I'm like, I want you to think about this later.
[28:30]But usually it's works so far.
[28:33]And some of the whole quotes that people are pulling
[28:35]from Lost in Arizona, I'm like, thank you.
[28:36]Cause that's, I wanted you to think about that later
[28:39]in like connection with your own life
[28:41]and your own choices and how you feel
[28:43]as a person, especially a woman.
[28:45]And so I just want connection.
[28:47]I want them to enjoy the story.
[28:50]Anything else is kind of up to them,
[28:51]but that's my goal.
[28:53]That's amazing.
[28:55]Well, Anna, I'm so happy for you.
[28:59]As closer to the mom's age than the kids age than this book,
[29:03]I read it like from that point of view,
[29:06]like what would it be like for the young girl
[29:09]who you bring on your big work trip?
[29:11]Like what is that like?
[29:12]And how does a young person get into the culture?
[29:16]And should you listen to like the concierge recommendations?
[29:19]And which room should I be giving her?
[29:22]And anyway, so I think it's not only escapist fun
[29:27]putting yourself in those shoes,
[29:28]but also being the parent of a character like that.
[29:30]And what you can learn about managing your own relationship
[29:33]with your daughters and all that.
[29:34]So yeah, I read it on the beach.
[29:38]It was amazing.
[29:38]I hadn't been in the sun since like summer last year.
[29:42]And I finally got on the beach.
[29:44]And I was like, this is the book I have to read.
[29:47]Last sunrise right now, right here.
[29:50]Thank you so much.
[29:51]All right.
[29:52]Well, thanks.
[29:52]It was great to meet you.
[29:53]Great to meet you.
[29:54]Have a good day.
[29:55]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi.
[29:58]Formerly, mom's don't have time to read books.
[30:00]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens,
[30:06]and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and bye the books!