Judy Blume, LIVE at the Streicker Center!

[1:20]Zibby Owens: This is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram at zibby owens. I was incredibly honored to interview Judy Blum on stage at the Temple Emmanuel Stryker Center in front of hundreds and hundreds of her adoring fans. I must say this was, like, a life highlight for me. We had the best time, and she gave permission for us to use the audio for this podcast, which was also incredibly generous, and I am very grateful. So now all of you get to hear our really special conversation and get to know Judy in a whole new way. For those of you who aren't familiar with Judy Blum, she is a legend. Here's a little bit of her backstory. Judy Blum spent her childhood in Elizabeth, New Jersey making up stories inside her head. She has spent her adult years in many places doing the same thing. Only now she writes her stories down on paper. Adults as well as children will recognize such Judy Blum titles as Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret, which was just made into a fabulous movie, Blubber, Just As Long As We're Together, and the five book series about the irrepressible fudge beginning with tales of a fourth grade nothing. Judy has also written novels for adults that include wifey, smart women, summer sisters, and her most recent, in the unlikely event, all of them New York Times bestsellers. Together, her 29 books have sold more than 92,000,000 copies in 40 languages. She was awarded the National Book Foundation Medal for Distinguished Contribution to American Letters in 2004 and the Library of Congress's Living Legends Award in 2000. Judy is also the recipient of the 2017 E. B. White Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters as well as the 2018 Carl Sandberg Literary Award from the Chicago Public Library Foundation. In 2020, Judy was honored by the Authors Guild Foundation for distinguished service to the literary community. In 2021, Yale University, where I went, conferred a Doctor of Letters honorary degree to Judy and the National Coalition Against Censorship Free Speech Defender Lifetime Achievement Award. Judy was named one of Time's 100 most influential people of the year in 2023 and received the National Book Critics Circle Lifetime Achievement Award. In 2016, Judy and her husband George Cooper founded the independent nonprofit Books and Books at The Studios in Key West, Florida. She is proud to be associated with Mitch Kaplan, the Miami bookseller. Welcome, everybody. Thank you for being here. So excited to be talking to Judy Blum tonight. Let's give another round of applause.

[4:36]Judy Blume: Thank you all for coming. This is so exciting.

[4:40]Zibby Owens: It's it's amazing. I have to pretend I'm just talking to Zippy. Yeah. Let's keep doing what we were doing on the couch. We were chatting and then we kept being like, no. No. Let's save that too. Let's save that. Let's save that. So, Judy, here we are at Temple Emmanuel. Why don't we start by talking about your religion, your growing up, your relationship to God, and how you incorporated that into your life? Yes. Well,

[5:06]Judy Blume: that's like what kind of child I was. So, I well, I mean, if you know the books, you probably know me and what kind of child I was. Much like the child in starring Sally J. Friedman as herself, which is my most autobiographical book, I was imaginative. And thinking about it recently, I think a lot of that was because the adults in my life kept secrets. I hated secrets. I still hate secrets. I know you're keeping something from me, Zebi. I'm not. I promise. I promise. I'll give you anything you want. Secrets. And so I made up. You know, I was a kid, and it was always like if the kid walked by the room, the adults stopped the kinder. So I made everything up, and what I made up was sometimes much worse than what it would have been in real life.

[6:01]Zibby Owens: I remember from your documentary, you talked about hearing grown ups talking about Nazis and all of that, and you changed it to make up into, you know, fairy tales or something. Oh,

[6:13]Judy Blume: I don't know. I don't know. No. You don't want talk about it. But that's okay. But I, well, I mean, I came from a family. My father had grown up as an Orthodox Jew. And he married my mother, who was Jewish but not religious. And her family didn't keep kosher and what you know, it was I I think probably my father's mother was not happy about that. I would just tell you, had two grandmothers. One I was very, very close to. That was nanny mama. The other I was a little uncomfortable with. That was grandma Sussman. You just know right away, you know? I I grandma Sussman didn't really speak English, and nanny mama was just fun and accepting, and my brother used to say, Nanny is the only one who just loves us unconditionally. He probably didn't use that word, but that's what he meant. Yeah. And she was. And and so my relationship with God was very, very personal. And I think it really started when I was separated from my father because, you know, we it's a long story. It's a book. But we had to move to Miami Beach because my brother was sick and the doctor said, no, no, no, he can't spend the winter in New Jersey. And so there we were in Miami Beach. But my father, a dentist, had to stay home in New Jersey and work. So I was separated from this parent that I loved more than anyone in the whole world. And he loved me back. And I felt that it was my job. It was such a burden for a nine year old child. I felt it was my job to keep him safe and keep him healthy. His siblings had all died at a very young age, forties, and he was now in his forties. He was approaching the bad year, I think it was 43, when two of his brothers, both dentists, had died. And so, you know, for a kid, a little kid like that, you don't share it with anybody. You don't say guess what I'm doing but I made bargains with God. And I had certain prayers that I invented that I had to say a certain number of times every day. I had to keep him safe. That was my job. So much pressure from you. I know. I know, but you know, you're a little kid and

[8:58]Zibby Owens: Today you'd probably get some medicine for that. You know, well I said today you might just get some medicine for that. Generalized anxiety. Here's a therapist. Anyway.

[9:08]Judy Blume: But then I kept it all inside. I never told anyone. Even after, you know, I never told anyone about that. I wrote the book because that's what I did.

[9:19]Zibby Owens: That's how I told people by writing a book. So But then the worst did end up happening with your father right before your wedding and I'm so Yeah. That was pretty

[9:32]Judy Blume: terrible. He was 54. Yeah. It was

[9:37]Zibby Owens: Ralph, but he's there. He's around. His name was Ralph? No. No. Oh, was like, Oh, that's so Ralph. If that's really true.

[9:47]Judy Blume: Talking about forever, obviously, That's you from forever. Right. I got know. Don't mix up Ralph with Rudolph. Speaking of therapists, we're really going to have to dive into this. He was Rudolph. My father was Rudolph. Rudy Sussman. So

[10:01]Zibby Owens: you started telling stories to yourself, getting yourself through all of these things. When did you realize you had a gift?

[10:10]Judy Blume: Oh, maybe when the New York Times told me and I said, oh, you. It's like, look at this. Oh my god. Maybe I can really do this.

[10:22]Zibby Owens: I mean, no. So it wasn't a teacher or someone in your life growing up who said, you know what, Judy, you're pretty good at this.

[10:30]Judy Blume: No. You know, creative writing wasn't stress when I was growing up in school. Am I right, Joanne? Pay attention. My I have a friend in the audience, and we were friends from the time we were 10. And she's the one with the memory. Whenever I I forget and I have to say, what was that thing in Elizabeth that we did and Joanne knows? Who is that person?

[10:57]Zibby Owens: Joanne always knows. So Joanne must Thank. I'm so

[11:01]Judy Blume: Joanne and our friendship. Yeah. Okay. So

[11:05]Zibby Owens: when then is the first time you tried to publish something that you wrote? Well,

[11:11]Judy Blume: so I went to college and I got a degree in education because my mother told me that's what you have to do in case, God forbid, you ever have to get a job. Because, you know, it was a different generation. And but I had always played school. I had always liked school and teachers. And I had teachers in the family. And so I I really did wanna become a teacher. I never did. Don't know if I would have been any good at it. But I I would argue that you have done a lot of teaching. I did. Wait, how did we get here?

[11:46]Zibby Owens: What were we saying? About Joanne.

[11:48]Judy Blume: Were No, you first got When published, you were said school first You said when did I first send something in? Yeah. So I had I married when I was still in college, as many of us did then. Had two babies by the time I was 25 and I liked having babies and I liked taking care of babies but something big was missing in my life and that was you know I had all this creative energy locked up. I had to let it out somehow. So I got the idea that I would start writing rhyming rhyming picture books, and I would illustrate them. I still draw smiley faces. I'm not an illustrator. I had colored pencils and nice paper, and I put them together with little brass fasteners. And I was going to be the next Doctor. Seuss because my name was Sussman, very close. And I sent them I sent them in to publishers knowing nothing. And they came back with rejection letters. And, you know, the first rejection letter is painful. I went into the closet and I cried. Only that one, and then I was determined. And I said, well, yes, maybe those are no good, but wait till they see what I'm gonna do next. And I just kept going and going and going, and I did find a course at NYU in the, you know, whatever it is. What do you call that? School for Continuing Education. And I met a teacher there who encouraged me.

[13:39]Zibby Owens: Yeah. I knew there was a teacher at some point. There's always a She was so supportive

[13:44]Judy Blume: that when that semester ended, I signed up and I took it again. I took the same class again because I didn't want to lose contact with her. It wasn't that she was a wonderful teacher, but when you find somebody like that who is supportive and encouraging, you just want to keep going. And so I did. And she gave me a rose in class when my first stories were published. She was she was great. That's so amazing. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And when did you decide not kids, yes grown ups? Oh, years and years and years went by and it wasn't until, you know, I saw I started my first book was published, I think, in the end of sixty nine. Nobody here was even born then, except Joanne. And me. And it wasn't until '78, I think, that I was like, you know, there's this other side of me. There's because I am a woman. I'm not 12 years old. Although all the kids thought I was 12 years old. And I'm like, I'm not 12 years old. I am a woman and I have a story to tell. And I sat down to write that story. It was very, very tough. It took three months to get a tone. That was wifey. And it took me three months to try to find the voice. That's the most important thing. You know, this was not a first person voice, but this was a woman with a story. And I had fun writing that book. So naughty. When people come into my bookstore now and they say, oh, how about this one? I I look at them and I kind of size them up. I say, that one is very, very naughty. And surprisingly, the people who I think definitely should not read this book say, that's the one for me. And I'm talking about women.

[15:57]Zibby Owens: Wait. Not kids. What does a woman who doesn't want to read a naughty book look like? What are we wearing? Okay. Well, anyway, moving on.

[16:11]Judy Blume: Okay. So That was fun. But then I, you know, I was not finished with kids books. I went right back to it. But four four times in, you know, from '78 until the last one, which was fifteen years ago. Four times I had stories to tell. And along the way, you ended up going through different marriages.

[16:35]Zibby Owens: Oh, Oh, goodness. Yes. Okay. Let's However, go

[16:42]Judy Blume: got to give me some credit, guys, because my my guy, my best of forty five years we've been together is right there in the audience. So yeah, I made a couple of mistakes. I mean the first one wasn't a mistake. We were together for sixteen years. We had two kids. We had a lot of history. And we stayed friends. And that history carried us through all those years that we weren't married. Married to different people.

[17:15]Zibby Owens: And what is the secret to staying married for forty five years? Oh, exhaustion. I don't know.

[17:23]Judy Blume: I mean, who wants to do that again? No finding. I mean, oh, what is the secret? The secret, I don't know that there's a secret. The the secret is you're just a lot smarter and, you know, I mean, you can't give us any credit. We moved in together on our second date because you did things like that in the late seventies, you know. I mean, in my kid, you know, I had kids, it was tough.

[17:52]Zibby Owens: They it was like, oh, what is she doing now? She's letting this guy move in. But sometimes it works, and we are very lucky. Well, speaking of secrets, I also wanted to know what the secrets are to aging so beautifully. Okay. I mean Oh.

[18:16]Judy Blume: We shouldn't get credit for that because a lot of that is Who knows what that is? Jeans, luck. Who knows? What is your workout regimen?

[18:26]Zibby Owens: Me hear

[18:27]Judy Blume: the details. Skin care and workouts. I used to work out a lot more, but since COVID since COVID, it's different. But I will say that the thing that I think and the thing that I miss the most is tap dancing. I took up tap dancing when I moved to New York with George. So, I don't know, was around 45 maybe. He's gonna change this. '43. '40 something. 1982, 'eighty three. Okay. 1981 or '2 or '3. Was walking since you're all New Yorkers, I was walking past Zabars and then around the corner on 81st Street maybe? And I looked up and I saw a tap dance class. I could see them tapping and I had never tapped Because, you know, my mother was a Jewish mother in New Jersey, and she said, Jewish girls take ballet. So I did. I took ballet, and I loved it, because I loved to dance. Give me, you know, music and I'll dance whatever I have to dance. But tapping, slapping your feet around. And I stayed in that class for five years, I think. And that was before we really moved to Key West. And then there was a guy in Key West who taught the same class in Key West, and I took that until Leila. Tap dancing is wonderful. Great for your spine. It's great for everything. You want to do a like little that. Bit I'm getting ready. I know. I see that. I'm getting ready. I know. Itching to itching to get up. And my feet are itchy. But no, I'm not going to. But I do think that was, just a great time, and I miss that. I miss that. I mean, you know, I've always I've been active, and I like to dance. So I used to do Jazzercise. Does anybody remember Jazzercise? Yes. I liked all that Jazzercise stuff. Oh, yes. YMCA. I like that. I used to go to those classes. We lived in New Mexico then. Used to go to those classes in Santa Fe. And yeah, and then I went to a gym. But when COVID came along, George and I, we stopped going to the gym. It just wasn't safe for us. But we never stopped because, you know, we live in Key West and the weather's nice. We never stopped doing the two mile walks every day. And we we still do that. And except when I work at the bookstore. Those three days a week, I got enough going on at the bookstore. I can't do the walk to. Yes. Keeping active. Right? Just keeping active.

[21:29]Zibby Owens: I walked from My mother used to say My ex My My My

[21:34]Judy Blume: ex My ex mother used to say, make sure you always have younger friends.

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[24:21]Zibby Owens: Let's talk about bookstore life. So we both own bookstores, which is the greatest joy in the world. I'm to Zippy's bookstore.

[24:28]Judy Blume: Thank you. In LA, in Santa Monica. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Very sweet bookstore.

[24:34]Zibby Owens: So how do you do your bookstore buying? Are you in charge of buying? No. No. Do you have any input at all? We, yes. But we, our buyer

[24:43]Judy Blume: works for Mitchell Kaplan in his Miami Books and Books. We are an affiliate of that wonderful Books and Bookstore. And but we're so small that and he has such a great buyer. She buys for all his stores and for us. And yes, I mean the lists come and you can say, No, I don't want that book. Or, Oh, really Send me five. Or you never know and a book takes off in your particular store that isn't. We do a lot of staff recommendation cards. A lot of them. And it is amazing how well they sell books. Our customers are mainly tourists. They're getting off cruise ships, I always wear a mask, Getting off cruise ships. They're they're coming for a visit. They're flying down from all over all over the world, really. And and they're buying books. We, you know, we never knew that the people on those cruise ships read. And now and now we love them. They do. They come in and they buy books. But, I mean, there's a book that I've been and I've been hand selling a book called My Darling Boy by, John Dufresne. I have never heard of him. There was a wonderful review one Monday in the Times and new books coming on Tuesday and the book came in. And I took it home and I read it and I thought, what a great original voice this guy has. And so I wrote a little card. And because of that, you know, people are buying and reading John Dufresne, who might not. Now I've just ordered an earlier book of his called Louisiana Light and Power Company. Do you know that? No.

[26:36]Zibby Owens: I think it's going to be wonderful too. Maybe after this discussion it will hit the best seller list as a result just of this. And I met him because I recently spoke

[26:46]Judy Blume: at a college in Florida. Forget what college. FIU. FIU. Florida International University. And John Dufresne is a professor there. And I said, oh my god, can I meet this guy? So, you know, we kind of fell into each other's arms. It was very sweet. I met his wife too. Was starting to get It's a little nervous exciting. It's exciting when you find a new book and a writer that you don't know, and you're able to then introduce new readers to this writer. You know, we love our bestsellers. I try to read as many as I can, but it's also that wonderful moment of finding somebody new and wonderful.

[27:35]Zibby Owens: It's it's such a gift to be able to give someone hours of entertainment just from a little suggestion. That is the best. Talk about why in in in the unlikely event, why is this your going to be your last book? Well, knew that when when I was writing it. I really felt

[27:54]Judy Blume: it's a very important book to me. People ask me in the store, what is your favorite of your books? And lately I have been telling them. I mean, these are adults, you know, telling them about this book. It's a story that I had inside since I was 14, and my daughter became a commercial airline pilot. And when she read this book, she said, Mother, I can't believe you never told me this story. Why why didn't I ever tell? Why was I a writer of fiction for forty years with an incredible story inside me, and I never I never forgot it, but I never thought to write it? Or maybe I thought I couldn't write it. Maybe I wasn't ready to write it. I don't know. But it took five years and a lot of research because it takes place, you know, in 1951, 1952. Joanne was there. She remembers it all. And it's a complicated book with a lot of characters. When the book was about to come out, I said to my editor Carol Barron, I said Carol, you know those lists that are in books of characters and who the family members and little family trees and all of that? I think we should do that. And she said to me, Judy, this is not a Russian novel. But that's not the end of the story. A year later when the paperback was going to come out, Carol called and said, you know that idea you had? I think we should do it now. There are a lot of characters. And it was just, I don't know, it was just, I just felt this is it. I'm going out on this book. This I don't want to do this anymore. I can't spend another five years locked up. And then it was like out of the sky the next day came this bookstore. I was so lucky because the creative energy was still there, but I really didn't want to write anymore. Suzanne, my agent is here. She's still crying. It was hard to explain that no, I really don't want to do that anymore. You know, I have other things I want to do. So so that's and and because it was so much, you know, going back to what I knew as a kid and what I remembered in the early fifties, people say, how did you know all that? It was like, was there. But also I did a lot of research. And so it was an exciting book. I know they had 25 copies out there, so some of you must Raise your hand if you got a copy. You are the lucky

[30:51]Zibby Owens: lucky recipients. Yay. So, now that the writing is over, there has been an uptick in adaptations. You Dear God, It's Me, Margaret, which was such an amazing movie and book of course. But the movie, oh my gosh. I love the movie. I loved it so much.

[31:08]Judy Blume: I'm the only writer who ever went out on like a tour and said to everybody, that movie is better than my book. Because it is. And it's a wonderful movie. And working with that team was like a dream. A dream team. And now you've

[31:27]Zibby Owens: introduced

[31:28]Judy Blume: your work through the movie to a whole new generation. I hope. Is wonderful. I hope. And now forever is out there. Yes. And that's totally different. And I I wasn't involved with that. I'm you know, a woman came to me and she made a pitch and we bonded over our blue framed eyeglasses. And she told me what she wanted to do. And I thought it was interesting. I was never going to do forever. I just didn't think it would work for this generation. And she came up with a way. It's it's black and it's LA in 2018. And I think it's pretty good. I've seen eight all eight episodes.

[32:13]Zibby Owens: I'm Currently available on Netflix for everybody's Yeah. Viewing

[32:18]Judy Blume: I think I think she did a a very interesting job with it. So I am pleased.

[32:25]Zibby Owens: So does this mean there will be other adaptations?

[32:28]Judy Blume: I hope so. I want Summer Sisters. Yeah. I want Summer Sisters. Thank you. Thank you. And I want a musical based on Sally Friedman as herself. Yes. And if they don't do it, I'll do it myself. I'll just tap dance and sing all those songs. Sally in Miami Beach in 1948.

[32:51]Zibby Owens: I love it. Suzanne, please get on that. Okay. Good. So

[32:56]Judy Blume: you're walking two miles a day now, you're in the bookstore three days a week, you look back at your whole career and you think what? I think how lucky I am. And that, you know, my book meant something and means something to readers. I mean, what does every writer dream of? First you dream of maybe someday I'll be published. And then you dream maybe someday someone will read something that I've written and then you get greedier, know, maybe someday I'll hear from one of them. And there's someone in this audience who wrote to me when she was 12. She was one of the kids who wrote to me, and we're still friends. So, I mean, that's that is special.

[33:47]Zibby Owens: That's amazing. And what's going on with the project at Yale with Beinecke Library and all of the letters that were written to you which are archived there? Last time we spoke, there was mention of a biography going on. Is that happening?

[34:01]Judy Blume: I don't know. Not.

[34:03]Zibby Owens: You don't know? Mm-mm.

[34:05]Judy Blume: Okay. Well, there I just don't really want that. You know, the documentary was wonderful. And so I'm I didn't want that either.

[34:16]Zibby Owens: And can anyone go to Beinecke Library and read the letters? Or do you have to get special permission? Do you know? George.

[34:23]Judy Blume: Oh, anyone can go read the letters. You can't copy them and you can't take them out. Think

[34:30]Zibby Owens: that's what it Has anyone been here to see the letters? Beinecke Library? Okay. We have a field trip coming. Wow. Amazing. When you look back and think about your own advocacy, right, book banning, you've taken a stance on this early on since your earliest books were banned as well. How do you feel about that, especially in today's world?

[34:53]Judy Blume: So I went through this in the eighties. Big time, book banning. What's happening today in this country makes that look like, you know, nothing. It is so bad. It is so dangerous. It is so serious. I live in Key West, which we like to pretend isn't in the state of Florida. But we have the same governor and we have the same legislature. And I have librarians come into the store who tell me that they've had to remove all books from the library. The library is now used only for study hall. It's it's just awful, awful, awful. But, there's always the but, But there are some advocacy groups out there that are doing such incredible work, such good work that I just have to, you know, be thankful for them, work with them, do whatever they ask me to do kind of. I mean, I take that back if any of you are in the audience. And they're, you know, they're not sitting down. They're they're working with the, you know, trying to get the bills and state legislatures not to pass. And they just managed to do that with a great, what would have been a horrible bill in Florida. A truly devastating bill. Now they will be the first to tell you that next year when the legislature meets again, there could be the same bill. There could be a worse bill. I don't know how it could be worse. But everybody needs to be aware of this and take a stand wherever you can. If you can't do anything yourself, join one of these fabulous groups. You know National Coalition Against Censorship, AABB, Authors Against Book Bans, PEN America is doing a fabulous job. They've even started PEN Florida because things are so bad there. So I'm living right in the middle of almost the worst of it. You know? So far, bookstores are okay. Nobody's bothering with bookstores.

[37:14]Zibby Owens: Let's keep our fingers crossed. Let's keep it that way. Going back to your role as a mom, you mentioned early on you were a young mom, you were overwhelmed, you were missing this creative outlet. How has your role as a mom informed your writing and your life to date?

[37:35]Judy Blume: I'm a better mom now. I didn't know what I was doing. You know, and I think, you know, dragging the kids through two divorces at 12 and 14 was very tough for them. You can't go back and the only thing you can do is say I'm really sorry and I am. But our family is a much better, tighter, wonderful family today. We, you know, for forty five years we've had George's daughter as such a part of it. So, it's just good. We're at a good place. So,

[38:18]Zibby Owens: yeah. I did see an Instagram thing pop up yesterday that said the best thing for kids is to have a happy mom. Right? That's the most there were some statistic which I can't remember. Right? But you're being a happy mom informs

[38:32]Judy Blume: Yeah, but I was an unhappy mom for a while. Yes, I'm a happy mom now. They're in their sixties now. But it's never too late, you know. But you know, for forty five years it's been good stuff.

[38:49]Zibby Owens: At my second wedding, my mom let me borrow this necklace and as she put it on me, she was like, I got this necklace on my fiftieth birthday and maybe one day I'll let you have it. And I was like, mom, I'm in my forties already. You're never you're always a young kid. Right? No matter how old you are. You're always a kid inside. That kid is always inside. Oh my gosh. Okay. I know you can't pick favorites and that In An Unlikely Event is the the most powerful because it's your last. But of the books for kids, is there one that stands out to you or that you feel most grateful for or that, I don't know, you have some sort of connection to aside maybe the one you were mentioning earlier about that is the most autobiographical, but Oh, Sally. Yeah.

[39:35]Judy Blume: Well, it's hard. You know, they're like your children, so it's hard to pick a favorite. I always tell people who ask me at the book store, it's like, you know, one day it's this one and one day it's this one. I mean, I'll always be grateful to Fudge. Fudge brought me so many readers. Right? I think there's two little Fudge readers there. And and Margaret, of course, because Margaret brought me everything. I didn't know what I was doing. I truly, truly didn't know what I was doing. I just sat down and I wrote that book. The first book that I wrote from deep inside, Just Let Go. And that's what came out. I had a wonderful editor, the best editor who supported me and encouraged me and he was perfect. He was so great. He worked with me on all of the books from from Iggy's House to Forever. Iggy's House to Forever. We worked on together. We had a lot of laughs over forever. Yes.

[40:45]Zibby Owens: And to aspiring authors out there, do you have advice? Is it just to be authentic and write from your heart? What would you what would you tell the young writer who's like sitting in the front row? Let's begin. Young writers,

[40:57]Judy Blume: I would say don't give up and that determination may be as important as talent. Because so many talented people give up. And you know the idea of criticism can be very hard and we have to take it because we get it. You know, I used to take a red pencil and scribble bitch on bad reviews, but I never but I never, you know, I never told the reviewers that I did. But it's painful. There's no question. And but you have to have to keep going. You have to go. I mean, that's true for any any creative arts. Right? I mean, you can be on stage. You can get a terrible review. You can be anywhere. It's it's hard. It's hard, but you do it. And for people who want to write I once had a woman say I've bought, I don't know, 17 books on how to write. But that's not how you learn to write. You learn to write because you read. You read, read, read. I've never understood kids who say, I don't like to read, but I'm going to be a writer when I grow up. No, you're not. Because it's about reading, and that's how you learn. You learn to write because you read. And then you write, write, write. And you throw it away and you get better. You keep going. I mean, that's what I think anyway. I don't know.

[42:46]Zibby Owens: Love that. In addition to the book you were recommending earlier, do you have any genres in particular that you love to read or books that you've loved lately?

[42:56]Judy Blume: I'm I'm really bad because I, you know, there's so many sections in a bookstore. And you would think that I would know everything in the middle grade and You. I know nothing. I know nothing in this, you know, I mean, every now and then I read one of them because I'm reading fiction all the time, and there's so little time to read. I find that having a bookstore, I have less time to read. George is incredible because he's always got a book in his ear. He's always listening to one. And he's got another one that he's always got like three or four going, and he goes through so many books. I know my non fiction from George and what he tells me. And if he likes a book, tells me a lot. So, you know, don't do you feel find that too?

[43:58]Zibby Owens: I mean, you read whenever you can. Reading is how I relax. Like people my son the other day was like, mom, what do you do in your free time? And I was like, I don't have any free time. And he's like, well, but when you're not working. And I said, well, when I'm not working, I read. And he's like, but that's your work. And I was like, I know. That's why it's so great. I think yeah. I think so. Reading is just you just fit it you have to fit it in on the in the spare moments and I don't know. You do. Yeah. You love it. Could we please give Judy a standing ovation? Up up up.

[44:33]Judy Blume: Yay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for coming, and thank you for being such a great audience.

[44:47]Zibby Owens: Thank you. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Sibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.