Lihi Lapid, ON HER OWN (now in paperback!)
[0:00]Hi, this is Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Totally Book to Zibi.
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[0:45]Lehila Pete is the author of On Her Own, a novel.
[0:48]She is also a contributor, by the way, to on being Jewish now, our best-selling anthology.
[0:53]Lehila Pete is a best-selling Israeli author, photojournalist, columnist, and activist, with
[0:58]a finger on the pulse of contemporary women's issues.
[1:01]She lives in Tel Aviv with her husband, Yehila Pete, the former prime minister of Israel,
[1:06]and their two children.
[1:07]Welcome, Lehila Pete.
[1:08]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:10]On totally booked with Zibi, I'm so excited to talk to you about so many things.
[1:14]Thank you.
[1:15]Thank you for coming on.
[1:18]Lehila Pete, when we did our event together at Temple Emanuel, you talked about your first
[1:22]book, Woman of Valor, and how that had been a personal book, and one that had really
[1:27]taken off, and then you had written your novel.
[1:30]And so I started by reading Woman of Valor, and it made me cry, I love it so much.
[1:37]I feel like I need to sit and reread it again, just to soak up all of your knowledge,
[1:43]and it's like the best book I think I've ever read about marriage and resentment and
[1:49]parenting with children, and oh my gosh, it was so good.
[1:53]Wow.
[1:54]Okay.
[1:55]It's, yeah.
[1:56]Wow.
[1:57]It's not the book we're scheduled to talk about.
[2:00]I know.
[2:01]I'm sorry.
[2:02]I couldn't stop reading it.
[2:04]I just couldn't.
[2:05]I was going to read a page or two just to be familiar with it, and then I ended up reading
[2:08]the whole thing, and I couldn't stop.
[2:10]Actually, it was a very huge bestseller in Israel, and I think I wasn't ready for that,
[2:18]so I didn't really try to help it go on outside of Israel, but I do think that it's
[2:24]got a lot of place, really.
[2:27]It was a book that changed something in Israeli society because it was the first time
[2:35]someone very famous talked about being a parent for kids with special needs, so it was
[2:42]a really something very, very different, so thank you for reminding it and loving it.
[2:50]No, it was so good.
[2:52]Do you mind telling listeners a little bit?
[2:54]I can summarize it too, but how you ended up writing that book?
[2:57]What do you mean by your famous?
[2:59]Just give a little background.
[3:00]Okay.
[3:01]I'll give a little background.
[3:03]So hi.
[3:04]I'm Leila Pieden.
[3:05]I never thought I would write, actually, I never thought I would write.
[3:11]I was a news photographer, a tough news photographer was motorbike and short hair, but
[3:16]I married someone that he's a writer and he wrote in the newspaper, then he became
[3:23]a politician, but before that, and his father was writing books and writing for the newspaper
[3:28]and his mother is a very famous author.
[3:32]So as a young woman, I said, I rather know what they are talking about instead of feeling
[3:40]a little bit stupid at dinners, so I went and studied a little bit of literature and
[3:47]a few years passed and I became a mother and then I realized that no newspaper wants
[3:54]and news photographer that breath fit every four hours.
[3:58]And on the motorbike, there is no place for baby chair, so, and I found myself unemployed,
[4:05]but it's not unemployed.
[4:07]I was left without the thing that I thought all my life I would do, which is photography.
[4:13]It was the thing that I studied, that I did, that I expressed myself through and then
[4:20]I started writing a book about this change, becoming a mother, becoming a family.
[4:26]And I wrote a book that was never translated or anything, but it started this talk about,
[4:32]you know, we are growing up and they tell us all the time, we can do whatever we want
[4:36]to do, we can be whatever we want to be.
[4:40]And I'm not so sure it's always the truth.
[4:44]We can try and do a lot of things, but I do think that there's a moment in the life of women
[4:51]when they become mothers that something changed and it can be a change of what we want
[4:59]to be or like what happened to me that I couldn't be anymore and news photographer,
[5:06]but I also fell in love with those little babies, it was late or after a year and one
[5:11]month his sister, yeah.
[5:14]And this change is a change that I wasn't prepared for because I grew up thinking, being
[5:23]a woman, being a man, what's the difference, really?
[5:26]And then I realized that there is a difference and then the book was published and then
[5:31]I was offered to write a column in the newspaper, which I wrote for 15 years about
[5:39]family, but about family from the side of a working mother of someone that doesn't give
[5:46]up on herself and she wants like our generation, the generation that we can slow down sometimes,
[5:54]but then we continue to pursue our dreams and our thoughts and we want to be involved
[6:00]and we are not giving up on things about life.
[6:05]And then I will say something about woman of color, which is a book that I wrote it and
[6:13]actually after I finished writing it, I tried to censor myself in a lot of things and
[6:21]I will say something because maybe a lot of people that hear your podcast are writers
[6:27]or want to write.
[6:29]And I went to my mother-in-law that she is a very famous writer, Trulamita Lapid.
[6:35]And I told her, listen, I wrote a book and it's too personal.
[6:39]And I don't know, do you write the whole truth when you write a book and she looked at
[6:44]me, this stuff woman and gave me the best advice ever about writing.
[6:51]When you write a book, you write the whole truth and then you erase a little bit.
[6:59]And I tried to erase things that won't embarrass anyone and I go to one point that I couldn't
[7:10]erase it, one paragraph and I decided that the book won't be published because it was
[7:16]too exposing, to have it published and to publish it without this paragraph, I felt that
[7:24]it's not the truth anymore.
[7:26]I can vote the paragraph at the end after a year and a half.
[7:32]I said with my husband with your ear and I told him, listen, I have to publish this book
[7:38]and he said, you know what it means to the exposure, are you sure you are ready for that?
[7:46]And I said yes and we gathered the family at the site that the book is being published and
[7:54]the paragraph goes like that.
[7:57]I come one day to pick up my daughter from kindergarten and the teacher says that something
[8:02]is wrong.
[8:04]I tell her that we already paid attention and we scheduled with an ear doctor because
[8:11]she doesn't respond like all the other kids.
[8:14]As time passes by, we make a lot of noise and she doesn't respond and we ask everybody
[8:21]that knows, everybody that strengthens and knows things and we realize maybe it's not
[8:28]just the ears.
[8:30]And at the crucial night before the ear exam, I pray all night and I don't sleep.
[8:36]I pray that I will have a deaf child.
[8:41]I want a deaf child because all other possibilities were so much more frightening.
[8:49]And our daughter, yeah, Alice 27, she's autistic with severe autism.
[8:54]It was heartbreaking at the beginning, it's very, really, it's not easy and I crashed
[9:01]and everything but at the end, she changed our lives.
[9:06]She taught us a huge lesson about love and about family and about and for me about being
[9:12]a mother.
[9:14]So a woman of Valerie is about really this move between being a nice couple with dreams
[9:22]and things and becoming a family that surrounds the girl with special needs.
[9:30]She's 27 now, yeah, and she still doesn't talk but she started writing a little bit
[9:37]award here and there which is really opening our hearts and lives for her soul and it's
[9:46]a huge journey.
[9:47]So thank you so much for saying something about this book, it's really in my heart.
[9:54]Oh my gosh, that scene that you mentioned, like I kept tearing up reading.
[10:00]the book. And, you know, you have a scene later where you talk, I think, to your mom, or
[10:05]no, it was your dad who had never said to you that you were a good mom. And you said, finally,
[10:11]after a couple years, you just asked him, you know, why me? Why did this happen to me? Why did
[10:16]this happen to my daughter? And he said, because you were the one who was supposed to do this.
[10:21]This is what you were made for. And you were such a good mom and how that like got to your heart so
[10:25]much. And it's just so moving. It's so moving. And you're like, I didn't think anyone even
[10:30]noticed all my effort. And I feel like that's one of the three lines of this book is like, you tried
[10:37]so hard. And I feel like so many of us just try so hard. And how sometimes all the trying gets in the
[10:44]way of the bigger picture. And then we kind of lose ourselves in what we wanted. And by the time
[10:49]you get to the end of the book and even your relationship. And you find yourself a little bit
[10:54]enough to like go on a date with your husband. And then I was like, well, then what happens?
[11:02]Yeah. I think this line between giving all of ourselves to our family, to the people that need us
[11:11]and between keeping some of ourselves to ourselves is a line that we need to balance all the time.
[11:20]I can tell you something about the fact that we know that a lot of
[11:26]parents of kids with disabilities are getting divorced because it's such a huge burden on the family
[11:34]on like was in charge, was paying a bigger price and the sadness and everything. And that was
[11:40]part of why I wrote this book in order to hug other families that are going through and to tell
[11:48]them that it's very difficult at the beginning. But at the end, not at the end, there's a moment
[11:54]you need to choose. I remember sitting with your ear like you say on a date and going on a date,
[12:03]asking questions about our love. Do we love each other? If we didn't have those kids, if you weren't
[12:11]married already, would you go on a date with me? Would I go on a date with you? And I think we
[12:18]need to make sure that the answer for that is yes. And we need to take time in our lives to
[12:27]have those dates, to continue thinking about us as a couple and not just as mother and
[12:36]father for the same kids. And so yeah, you looked at me at that time and said, this house needs to
[12:44]be a happy house. This home needs to be happy again. And that was my main target to have this house
[12:55]happy for the other kids that lives in it for us as a couple. And also for your L, because she
[13:02]really feels if the house is stressed and sad or happy and just hiding her. So beautiful.
[13:11]Can I read a passage that I like screenshot it? Is that okay? Can I read it out? I know we were
[13:17]supposed to talk about something else, but I'm just over the moon obsessed with this book. There are
[13:21]so many passages. Oh, this is another, I mean, there's so many. I could read this is one where you
[13:26]talk about sort of bonding with the other parents of special needs kids. You say I was thinking about
[13:32]what the group facility, so you were in a small group and the facilitator got you all together. This
[13:36]is the first time you really connected with other parents who had had, who have special needs kids.
[13:41]And he had asked you to go around and talk about your hobbies, which of course is a joke because
[13:45]nobody had any time and all of your emotions were fried and everything. So you say I was thinking
[13:50]about what the group facilitator asked us about hobbies. And I remembered that once I had dreams,
[13:55]not just about children, not just about my baby girl, once before everything came crashing down
[14:00]before nights turned into days before teachers filled the house and worked with her in her room
[14:05]and my man and I sat on the other side of the closed door listening to her cry torn apart by how
[14:10]difficult it is for her. And I curled up in the circle of my beloved man's embrace wanting to
[14:15]scream and wanting only to wake up from this nightmare. And I remembered that before all of this
[14:19]before this dizzying cycle of awful exhaustion and anger and heart-wrenching sorrow,
[14:24]I had dreams about myself, dreams that I hadn't dared dream for a long time,
[14:28]that I was ashamed to dream because how could I even dare to want something for myself
[14:32]when I was supposed to think only about her? And I started realizing that if I didn't have dreams
[14:37]to escape to, I would fall apart. Well, thank you for this paradigm. It's so beautiful. I mean,
[14:46]one more. Hold on. I'm just saying for the people that are joining us really that we were supposed
[14:52]to talk about. I'm sorry. No, no, no, you don't need it. So, you know, I think that the fact that
[15:01]this book, my previous book got into your heart, that's the truth of the thing. Wow, it's
[15:09]really so strong for me to come back to it. Now, try to make, I wrote it when she was like 12.
[15:17]It took me a few years to publish it because I was so afraid. And now for you to read it,
[15:24]when she's 27 and I know who she is. And you know what, like you said before,
[15:31]so many years passed and I fulfilled a lot of dreams that I almost gave up on them,
[15:38]but I could do them a few years later, which is amazing. Thank you. Yeah, I want to read the other
[15:44]paragraph for you to read. Oh, okay. Okay. The other paragraph. And then I promised I'll ask you
[15:49]about your new book. You write a lot about comparison, right? And you actually have sort of a foil
[15:56]for your own family with this prince and princess after the fairy tale, which is so interesting
[16:00]how you set that up. And then how they end up connecting later. I was like, that's genius. Okay.
[16:06]And you always think like her life is better. And then you talk, well, here, I'll just start
[16:11]one evening. It's her turn to host the girls night out and they arrive all her girlfriends,
[16:15]all of those who never stop who keep constantly moving on in the race, working and growing.
[16:19]One is a psychologist, one is a doctor and one is a teacher without even noticing they scatter
[16:23]around stories of success, of achievements, of failures, of struggles, of an exciting life, of wild
[16:28]unapologetics, shopping speeds that they don't have to justify to anyone, of exhilarating
[16:32]trips abroad and all the while they compliment her on her lovely palace, her tidy children,
[16:37]and her tasty dishes, compliments that until recently were her adequate compensation,
[16:41]a source of pride and satisfaction, a sense of achievement and success, and suddenly seemed to her
[16:46]like empty shells, this palace, which she licks clean, the children whom she nurtures, the dishes
[16:51]that she cooks, all these things that she puts her heart and soul into that she dedicates
[16:55]all her time to, suddenly seems so unimportant. Yes, okay, the house is clean, there's hot food,
[17:01]and the children are attended to, but they don't seem much happier than her friend's children
[17:05]and not much more successful than them. She, who had no less potential than them, if not more,
[17:10]who was supposed to prancer on the world wearing designer gowns, who was supposed to buy whatever
[17:14]she felt like buying, who was destined for greatness and success, is now receiving compliments
[17:18]on her clean house, on her cooking, and now these compliments of theirs insult her, anger her,
[17:23]she feels as though she doesn't deserve compliments, she hasn't achieved anything unique,
[17:27]she knows that each and every one of her friends could have a house like this,
[17:30]where they sitting at home all day looking at clean, and she can no longer lie to herself,
[17:34]she can no longer say to herself that she's happy, that she's content, that she's doing the
[17:39]most important thing in the world. Wow, wow. You should go reread this book. Yeah, yeah. It is so
[17:48]powerful. So you wrote this book in the book you write about writing another book. What book was
[17:53]that? Because you carve out the time with like all your might to find the moments in your crazy
[17:58]life to write, and how important writing itself is to you. And then you get published, and it's
[18:04]a bestseller. And is that the book that wasn't translated? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was the first book
[18:10]that was, yeah, that was, yeah, that changed, the first one changed my life because I became a writer,
[18:22]with a column in the newspaper. It's a big news paper. I can tell you that when they offered me the
[18:26]column, of course, they said, wow, you wrote woman's book. So we want to offer you a woman's
[18:34]column. So we need recipes, and we need tips for that. And I said, but I don't know how to cook.
[18:42]I'm burning also salads. Like, like, and then I realized that that's what they wanted. And it
[18:48]was a moment, you know, it was also, it was a moment in my life that I drove home. And I said,
[18:56]are you really going to write a column for the newspaper with tips that you don't have and recipes
[19:02]when you don't know how to cook? And another voice in me said, they're offering you a page in the
[19:09]most read news paper in Israel. You're taking it. And you will make it what you want of it to be.
[19:18]And I gathered all my friends, all my girlfriends. And I said, each one of you gives me her best
[19:24]recipe, her most simple, easy to make recipe. And I started with recipes. And at the end, it
[19:33]was 15 years that I wrote at the end, whatever I wanted about life, about life in Israel, about
[19:41]things like that. And it was, I'm very happy. I did it. It really changed my life writing a column.
[19:48]Wow. And then you include a lot of the questions that came into the column, which are also
[19:52]beautiful. Okay. So then what happened? When did you write this book and tell listeners about
[19:57]your book and everything?
[20:00]Okay, so so I wrote 15 years my column and then I was fired from the column in the newspaper because
[20:09]My husband is a politician and to be
[20:13]It got too complicated and then I said, okay, now I don't have any other excuse why I don't write another novel
[20:23]And I talked to a friend of mine that would try to write something for TV
[20:27]Which didn't walk out and she said, do you have any story? And I said, yes, I have a story about an old woman going down the stairs at the middle of the night and
[20:39]On the stairwell, it's all till a viv old building
[20:44]There's a girl named Nina 18 year old that
[20:47]Friends away from home and from bad people that are chasing her with her miniskirt torn
[20:53]She's hiding there
[20:55]When this old woman opens the light and looks at her and says
[21:02]Dana my Dana you came back for me
[21:05]But she's Nina. She's not Dana and she goes to live with this old woman
[21:10]Carmella trying to be her granddaughter that lives far away in America and I had this beginning of of a story and
[21:19]She just SMS me every day not every day every two weeks like what's happening with
[21:25]Nina and Carmella my friend that she's the editor and and I told her I don't have time to write
[21:32]You know always hearing is rather politics and elections all the time and things happening and then she said it was much
[21:40]Before the war and she said one day. She texted me and she said I will never ask about them
[21:48]If you won't write them, they will stay in the stairwell in Tel Aviv and
[21:55]Then I couldn't leave them there. So I started writing them like I didn't have any other choice. Oh my gosh
[22:02]So then how long did you spend on this book? I
[22:06]spent like I think two years
[22:10]I spent on this book. I needed there
[22:14]few subjects that are
[22:17]Rising in this book one one. So first of all is is the thing that there's a family an Israeli family that the Sun lives
[22:26]In America, which my brother lived for 30 years in LA. So it's really I saw my parents
[22:35]think there are grandchildren growing up
[22:38]Speaking of language that is very hard for my parents my parents are simple people with a store and they don't
[22:47]speak great English
[22:49]So so it was very difficult for them to
[22:53]To be to see grandkids that they can't really be there for them
[22:59]Because they are very close to my kids and my sister kids and the kids in America
[23:03]There are grandkids in America. It was and I thought more and more families are
[23:10]having this the having grandchildren far away
[23:14]outside of their
[23:16]state or country and
[23:19]And how do you keep a family strong together? How do you keep a family?
[23:24]Happy and and loving even when people live far away. I see a lot of
[23:30]Jews in America that their kids decided to do Aliyah to Israel and suddenly
[23:37]They are very far away and how do you keep it and I think in this global world that a lot of kids are a lot of adult kids are doing
[23:47]Relocation and things like that and live far away from their parents. So after so many years. I wrote about
[23:54]What we owe our kids how to be a wonderful mother or a good enough mother and wrote about do our kids
[24:02]Oh, ask something. What can we ask them?
[24:06]Can we ask them to be there when we grow older and watch us and and how do we do it?
[24:14]And what about their dreams so so in a way it started from that
[24:19]But I needed to do a lot of research about
[24:22]There's a little bit of of the things of the dimension there about the mother that is slowly forgetting things and
[24:32]And I think one of the most
[24:35]Strong things that happened to me was the book that that it was being published
[24:41]was published in Israel and it was the success but but when Harper's Collins which is a very
[24:47]Distinguished publishing house in America decided that they want to to publish it. I was I was very very happy
[24:57]But it was it was out at the middle of the war. It's March of 24 and when it went out
[25:04]I was I said to myself Wow, it's such a bad time for an Israeli book to be published and also I remember when
[25:12]The publishing house that wanted a store to do
[25:16]To find a story Manhattan to have me, you know to have some kind of party and and no book store wanted
[25:24]To host us because it was really
[25:28]I think they were afraid of riots and it took us time to understand that that's the reason
[25:34]We can't find any store of books in the in Manhattan to do it and
[25:39]But then I thought about the fact that in this book the old woman lost her son
[25:46]at war
[25:48]30 years ago and I thought that there is something in the way the book is written
[25:55]Like it's about a family and the thing that I think gets out the most in this book is that
[26:03]For Israel is a soldier is not a war machine. It's not someone that dreamt of being
[26:10]Rumble, okay, it's not
[26:14]In Israel a soldier
[26:16]Is our son that got to the age of 18 and needs to go and defend his country and some of them
[26:23]Dies or being killed and I think this book really gives the this notion of
[26:31]It's just a child that went one day to the army and didn't come back and
[26:37]For this book to be published after the 7th of October
[26:42]Was so strong that that I know not a lot of people that are
[26:47]Either or not Jewish will read it, but I think whoever will read it will get this notion of what it is to be
[26:55]An Israeli mom that sends her son to the army. I remember this when when my son Lee ore was 18
[27:05]And it did to go to the army and he wanted to be a fighter
[27:09]And I said to myself if something happens to him
[27:14]I have only my daughter that I I need to take care of her and if something happens to him
[27:19]No one will take care of me like and I said it's such a request from a country to ask us
[27:27]the mothers to hand our kids and I think it's
[27:33]It's something that we Israeli moms we we
[27:37]Hardly think about because it's so difficult. I'll tell you something when my son was in the army
[27:43]And he was a fighter
[27:45]I went to visit him in all kind of bases around Israel and everything and my mother-in-law said if you are already go there
[27:53]Write a book. So I wrote a book called being a soldier's mom a wonderful book with a lot of tips and a lot of things
[28:02]No one bought this book
[28:05]No one it was a huge failure
[28:07]And we sat at the publishing house trying to figure out what's had what happened like every book I
[28:14]And then I said listen no Israeli mom wants a book named being a soldier's mom next to her bed
[28:23]It's too frightening. We just want those three years
[28:27]To pass and for him to come back home safe and healthy and we don't need we can't think about it every minute because
[28:37]We will go insane
[28:39]Especially after this horrible year. Oh my gosh
[28:44]Well, they he you wrote such a beautiful
[28:47]Short piece for our anthology on being Jewish now about exactly this which is so powerful and
[28:53]Your thoughts on the subject are so profound and so relatable and just like cut to the core of
[29:01]the most vulnerable moments of being a mother or a parent but particularly a mother and to give voice to all of that in all these different forms is
[29:10]It's it's like plucking a an un un un herd string or something
[29:16]It's something deep down and I want to I want to to really thank you for for the opportunity to be
[29:23]on on being Jewish now in the anthology and giving the voice of an Israeli mom
[29:29]inside of it and
[29:31]especially at that time so
[29:33]It's a big honor and every week that I see that more people are
[29:38]Reading it and buying it and and
[29:41]I'll tell you something we met in New York in an evening in a morning that you did for the for the anthology
[29:49]And I had something that I felt all those days that I would
[29:53]Was there that for many years Israeli is where very Sabra, you know, we have the
[30:00]We are a little bit arrogant. We don't need anybody. We are okay. We Israel is with.
[30:08]And on the other hand, I felt that the Americans said, Jews in America said, there is Israel. It's okay.
[30:16]And after 7th of October, everything changed. I think we Israel is.
[30:22]We were suddenly we needed so much the support of Jews in America and around the world. Every post that someone wrote about strengthening Israel and believing us and supporting us was so so important and people that came to visit.
[30:40]And I think also from America and Jews in America felt that Israel needs them a little bit more than they thought before.
[30:50]And I think that it's a horrible year and a half. But this what happened was that the bond between Jews in Israel and Jews in America and around the world became so much stronger.
[31:03]And it's really, it's really amazing that that something like woke up in this in this relationship that were like too obvious for all of us and suddenly.
[31:20]And just say, like husband and wife.
[31:25]Oh my gosh. Well, Lee, thank you for coming on. I could talk to you all day. And thank you for going back in time and reliving a.
[31:32]A moment that has passed so long ago because it is a timeless story in women of Ella and and your latest book to and everything. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.
[31:43]Thank you and hope for better days and for all the hostage to be home. Yes, between now that we talk and until it will be aired. Thank you.
[31:53]Thank you. Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi formerly momstone have time to read books.
[32:00]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh and buy the books.