Georgia Hunter, ONE GOOD THING: A Novel
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[0:44]Georgia Hunter is the author of One Good Thing, a novel, and she was recently on this podcast
[0:51]for We Were the Lucky Ones, where we talked with her and about the adaptation of her book
[0:56]and all that.
[0:57]When Georgia Hunter was 15 years old, she discovered that she came from a family of Holocaust
[1:01]survivors.
[1:02]Years later, she embarked on a journey of intensive research, determined to unearth and
[1:06]record her family's remarkable story.
[1:08]The result is the New York Times Bestseller, We Were the Lucky Ones, which has been published
[1:12]in over 20 languages and adapted for television by Hulu as a highly acclaimed limited series.
[1:18]It was actually just nominated for a critics' choice award because I watched her and
[1:23]talk to her right before that happened, unfortunately, they didn't win, but whatever.
[1:27]One good thing is Georgia's second novel.
[1:29]She lives in Connecticut with her husband and their two cents.
[1:32]Welcome back, Georgia.
[1:33]I'm totally but good to me.
[1:35]I'm delighted to have you back to talk about one good thing.
[1:40]Your amazing novel that is so captivating and oh my gosh, I feel like I've traveled the world.
[1:46]Having read this, so congrats.
[1:48]Well, thank you.
[1:49]Thanks so much for having me back.
[1:50]I'm really excited to chat today.
[1:52]Sure.
[1:53]I should have been more specific.
[1:54]I feel like I've traveled all over Italy and I would say tough to bottom, but I have
[1:57]no sense of geography.
[1:58]So I shouldn't say that.
[1:59]It probably is not.
[2:01]Okay, talk about why the novel, why here, I've loved the picture in the end of you in Rome
[2:10]at age three, by the way, but just the backstory and the story.
[2:14]Absolutely.
[2:15]Well, thank you so much for having me back on.
[2:17]It was a pleasure getting with you about We Were the Lucky Ones.
[2:19]So my first novel was so deeply ingrained in my personal history.
[2:25]So like, as you know, it was based on my grandfather's Holocaust survival story and his
[2:31]family and it took me almost a decade to unearth and record it.
[2:36]And so, and then I got to do it again and it was, you know, turned into a series.
[2:40]So I spent like 16 years of my life with this project.
[2:43]And so when my editor Pam over at Penguin said, hey, what's next?
[2:48]I had to really think hard about where I wanted to, you know, a lot in my headspace
[2:54]in my heart space.
[2:56]And because, you know, when you write a book and you know this, like, you live in that
[3:00]space for a very long time and hopefully you get to keep talking about it for a long time
[3:04]too.
[3:05]And so, you know, I was drawn to, I kept coming back to Europe and to the Holocaust and to
[3:10]sort of these untold stories that were waiting to be discovered.
[3:15]I liked the idea of trying to tell Italy's Holocaust story in particular because it felt
[3:20]the details of that history felt relatively unknown to me.
[3:24]I feel like it's not something we typically learn about in school.
[3:28]I mean, I could name a few big names, Mussolini, you know, like, but that was about it.
[3:34]Like, I didn't know much about the history and I thought it would be really interesting
[3:37]to dive in and try to tell that history through the eyes of a kind of an ordinary young
[3:41]woman.
[3:43]I'm also really drawn to Italy.
[3:45]You mentioned the picture with my father.
[3:46]I just posted that to my Instagram yesterday.
[3:49]Italy is the place where my parents first met.
[3:51]So they are both American.
[3:52]They were both living there in the 70s.
[3:55]My mom was running a clothing store and my dad was actually acting in spaghetti westerns
[4:00]and directing films and plays and writing and they met through the expat community and
[4:05]fell in love and stayed for a combined 17 years.
[4:08]And so I was born, you know, back in the States when they settled back in to Massachusetts,
[4:14]but I remember growing up and hearing stories upon stories about life in Italy and the culture
[4:19]and the people and the food.
[4:22]And so I think this sort of fascination and love of Italy was sort of baked into my DNA and
[4:27]I took my first trip when I was a toddler and it's I have a major wander last day.
[4:32]I have a bucket list a mile long and I love to travel and explore, but Italy has been
[4:38]one of those places.
[4:39]I just keep coming back to over and over and over again and I think it's just, it feels
[4:44]like a second home in some way so it holds a very special place in my heart.
[4:48]So between sort of the unknown Holocaust history past and then just feeling so connected
[4:53]with this place where my parents spent so much of their time, I felt very drawn to that
[4:57]as a setting.
[4:58]Well, I'm glad you said that you also did not know that much about Italian Holocaust history
[5:03]because I was like, wait, that happened, right, apart with Mussolini and then he was in jail
[5:10]and they got out of jail and he was in power one day and like all these twists and turns,
[5:15]which the country is going through and as the reader were going through, I was like,
[5:20]like who knew this I didn't know.
[5:22]So thank you.
[5:24]Oh, absolutely.
[5:25]I mean, and it was, it was very confusing.
[5:27]I mean, and hey, the history of Eastern Europe was, it was very black and white and
[5:32]especially if you were Jewish at the time, you know, with occupation, your life was at risk.
[5:37]And so Italy was much more of a slow build and then you had these laws called the racial laws
[5:42]that were little by little, sort of similar to the Nuremberg laws chipping away at the rights of Italy's
[5:47]Jews, but life kind of went on until the Germans came and occupied the north and then out,
[5:54]sort of coming up through the south.
[5:55]And then all of a sudden, if you were Jewish and you found yourself in the north,
[5:58]you were in a lot of trouble, your life was at risk.
[6:01]But in the meantime, it was just, yes, twists, turns left and right, Mussolini in power,
[6:05]in jail, broken out of jail, back in, out of power, in power.
[6:09]Partners in groups, resistant groups, civil war.
[6:11]It was all happening honestly, like I have a, I have a cheat sheet to try to keep track of it.
[6:15]It was very confusing for me.
[6:17]And I had to remind myself that that confusion was also part of Lily as mine being
[6:22]characters, part of her worldviews.
[6:23]So she was trying to keep up with this history as it was unfolding.
[6:27]And to be honest, there's still debate today, like about the role, you know, what happened and
[6:33]who the how and the why and also the role of the Italian people in protecting the Jews,
[6:38]the role of the church in protecting the Jews.
[6:40]It was really controversial today, which is also, I find interesting.
[6:45]I really didn't want to like pick one side.
[6:48]I really wanted to try to tell all sides of that story through Lily's perspective.
[6:53]So I hope I accomplished that.
[6:55]Well, the goal, I mean, I fell into the story because of the characters, but I also learned
[7:01]based on everything that was happening with them.
[7:02]So that was like an added bonus.
[7:04]But of course, it's, it's really a story of two best friends and how they became good friends,
[7:12]like what they filled and the voids that they filled in each other, which so many friends can
[7:16]like understand like, oh, this person gives me that and this person gives me that and how one
[7:20]of them was sort of inspired by Helena a little bit, which I love because I like can't get
[7:25]enough of your family characters as characters, which is like a creepy thing to say.
[7:31]But it's, you know, the lengths will go to for the friends that we love so much.
[7:35]And, you know, Lily goes to the end of the degree, right, she'll, she'll, you know,
[7:41]so yeah, tell me about the two of them and the friendship and all of it.
[7:46]Yeah, I was really, it was, you know, the first book was based so much on my family
[7:50]and the friendships within the family, but it was really, that was the theme was the family.
[7:54]And it was really fun for me in many ways to lean into the theme of friendship in this novel.
[8:00]And there was still motherhood and survival and all, you know, all these decisions that Lily
[8:05]was facing, which, which paralleled in many ways, the decisions that my family face in the Holocaust,
[8:10]but it was really beautiful to draw upon my own, you know, friendships and that bond that I share
[8:15]with my dearest girlfriends and to try to imagine myself in Lily's shoes. And they really
[8:20]are opposites, right, Lily is kind of like shy and introverted and bookish and very much like
[8:25]a rule follower, which is totally me. And then as do you compared to Helena, who's my great
[8:31]aunt who's the name of this big bold personality, defiant to a fault, right? And won't take
[8:37]no for an answer to have their, like their very opposite in many ways, but they share this incredible
[8:42]bond. And in the beginning of the story, that actually the book opens with Estee's
[8:47]child being born, this is the birth of her son Theo. And so he ends up playing this significant
[8:52]role too. And Lily finds that suddenly, you know, disaster strikes when their height and hiding
[8:58]in Florence and suddenly Lily is tasked with keeping Theo safe. Estee says, I can't, I can't leave
[9:06]this place, but you can, you go and try to keep my son safe, please. And so Lily has to sort of like
[9:12]step into this role of caretaker and mother. And she's a couple years younger, you know,
[9:17]Estee's like the woman, you know, like in every way and older, the looks, the confidence in Lily
[9:24]really has to, you know, it's a coming up age for her. She has to sign a step into her courage and
[9:28]her confidence that that needs to build for her to even herself believe that she can take care of
[9:33]this child. And I kind of go on the run with him on this epic journey, South, you're right, along
[9:38]the length of Lily, trying to find safety. So yeah, the theme of friendship was, it was a really,
[9:45]a really beautiful one for me to explore. And, and I think something, hopefully readers can relate
[9:50]to. And, and it's love at the core, right? Like I think that's one of the best takeaways from early
[9:56]readers that I've gotten is you mentioned it, Lily, sometimes people.
[10:00]I like this book, even though like set to this pretty horrible backdrop of the Holocaust
[10:05]in the war makes me want to go to Italy.
[10:07]So that I love that though, because I feel like I hopefully painted this picture of what
[10:11]Italy was like and is still like this, it's like almost like a character in the book, you
[10:16]know.
[10:17]But I feel like, yeah, through Lily's story, we get introduced to the theme of love.
[10:23]And that's with Estee, her best friend.
[10:26]That's with this, her father.
[10:29]I love that, you know, built that so much on my relationship with my own father.
[10:33]With Theo, this little boy, she becomes her son, and then it was fun also to build in
[10:39]a romance with a young American soldier who she meets on the streets of Rome.
[10:44]And that character as well was really built around and inspired by my late father and by
[10:51]my husband who are like these two very southern gentlemen and the kindest, this big hearted
[10:56]men I know.
[10:58]Even though I'd say like this book was very different in that it was, you know, it was not
[11:02]my family history.
[11:03]I wasn't unearthing it and trying to just do my family story justice.
[11:07]I was definitely inspired by my dear friends, my two little boys, my father, my husband.
[11:13]I mean, I don't know how to do it any other way.
[11:15]I feel new to this right in the world, but to be inspired by real people, I find so much
[11:21]joy.
[11:22]And I draw so much from the people and the places and the experiences I've had in my
[11:26]life.
[11:27]So that's how I know to do it.
[11:29]I mean, there is no right or wrong to creativity.
[11:31]Right.
[11:32]And who knows what happens in our brains, but it has to come from somewhere, right?
[11:36]Exactly.
[11:37]I mean, strangers, you might as well take it from people, you know, and right and all
[11:43]stuff.
[11:44]But now the theme of love is is so powerful.
[11:47]And also how many decisions, right, I was so struck because they went to so many places.
[11:53]They made so many choices.
[11:55]And to think that they were doing all this, I mean, it sounds so obvious, but it's not
[11:59]like they could check the news on their phone.
[12:01]It's not like they could check maps.
[12:02]I mean, they were just out there and trusting, you know, this person at this church and
[12:07]this neighborhood and this guy who says this is okay.
[12:10]And okay, let's go this way and all those, you know, throughout all of Holocaust history,
[12:15]that is like one thing that always stands out to me is the split-second decisions were
[12:19]all life and death in the end.
[12:21]Absolutely.
[12:22]That's amazing.
[12:23]And with my family story, all those decisions ended up playing out for them were they absolutely
[12:29]may not have like there could have been a hundred of those little decisions and big decisions
[12:34]and last, like you said, split-second decisions that ended differently for them.
[12:37]They got very lucky.
[12:38]And for literally in SD, you know, I thought long and hard about how their story should
[12:44]end and I won't give it away, but I just feel like the making those decisions amidst
[12:49]so much uncertainty, just like, again, when I put myself in Lily's shoes, that was almost
[12:57]the hardest part is like, it's sliding doors moments left and right.
[13:00]Like if I choose this, my life goes that way.
[13:03]If I choose this, my life goes that way.
[13:05]And in the worst case scenario is your caught in ship to a camp, you know, like, so it was
[13:10]the worst case scenario that was if you chose wrong.
[13:13]So I'm trying to make informed decisions amidst so much uncertainty and trying to figure
[13:20]out who to trust, where to put, you know, where to put that trust, I can only imagine
[13:26]how hard that was for so many millions of people experiencing it.
[13:31]And the love you mentioned with her dad, I found that to be such a poignant element of
[13:35]the story.
[13:37]You know, even when you say how the dad had gotten sort of frail and, you know, during
[13:42]it at one transition, I won't give things away either, but just as he's gotten older,
[13:47]and what it's like to watch your parents getting older, which, you know, you don't have
[13:50]to be in the Holocaust to see this as a natural passage of time, but just the love for each
[13:55]other and wanting each other to be happy and all of that.
[14:01]It was just so real.
[14:04]Thank you.
[14:05]I have a lot to hear that and I really, I, I, I think you, you know, amidst all the darkness
[14:11]and that uncertainty, I think we cling to those things that are real and like your love
[14:16]for your family is real or maybe the conversation you're having across the table with
[14:21]a stranger who happened to let you into her house is real, like, whatever is in front
[14:24]of you at that moment, but I do feel like Lily, you know, she loses touch with everyone
[14:29]and everyone she knows.
[14:30]Yeah.
[14:31]Like, she has nobody for a long time and also thought about, you know, you learn right
[14:35]away that her mother has passed, like her mother passed at university.
[14:38]She doesn't have, when she loses touch with SD, it's really her father who she leans
[14:43]on for that kind of support and at one point, she's even having a conversation with her
[14:49]her late mother and her head wishing she had that present.
[14:52]So you're just like so many dynamics.
[14:54]It was really interesting to play around with and her narrative and I had the freedom to
[14:58]do that, which was, you know, again, in the first book and we were the lucky ones.
[15:02]Like I took no creative license there.
[15:04]I mean, I had to a little bit try to imagine their dialogue and all the entire history
[15:10]was based on what was passed down to me through my research in oral oral histories.
[15:14]And here I really had the luxury of deciding where she would go and what would happen
[15:19]to my main characters, which was which was equal parts, very freeing and also terrifying.
[15:26]It would be neat if you could, which is like impossible, if you could like organize tours
[15:31]because I feel like this is a geographic journey as well as emotional and it would be
[15:36]so neat to go and to retrace Lily's steps and where she went and all these small towns
[15:42]and villages like I would love to do that, not that I have time, but yeah, I love that.
[15:49]And that was my, one of my favorite parts of my research, my mom and I went over and traveled
[15:54]together throughout the length of Italy and stopping in all the places where Lily stopped
[15:58]and sort of imagining it through her eyes was really, really beautiful.
[16:03]I mean, Italy, you know, it's, it's got these, the big cities that we've all seen and pictures
[16:08]have been lucky enough to visit it, but sometimes it's these tiny little towns that are
[16:13]little specks on the map and so exploring those places and they're very small.
[16:17]So like everybody knows everybody and so you know if Lily lands and one of these little
[16:21]towns, like people are going to talk and do they, do they pose as area or do they not,
[16:27]you know, they have to make all these decisions, but you just also like walking around them and
[16:31]and also knowing that there was this whole network of underground.
[16:34]Of course, people, Christians, Catholics, Jews alike working together to try to protect
[16:41]the Jews who are in hiding in that little town. You know, I remember reading about a town called
[16:46]a CC where there's a, there's a gentleman helping to print false IDs secretly from the back
[16:51]of his job and this tiny little town was hiding over 300 Jews and like 300 people like where were
[16:57]they? I walked down these tiny little side streets and you can walk the village from start to
[17:02]finish in five minutes and like where were they, you know, so just yeah, they would be very cool
[17:07]to like, I recommend going to some of these places in this, in the book even if it's not a,
[17:11]a tour. Yeah, it's like, there's an email we have to happily give you some tips on where to go
[17:17]waiting there, but yes, it's just the whole imagining it then and now was just wild.
[17:24]Well, when I watched, we were the lucky ones. There was a scene where the Nazis sort of come
[17:29]into their neighborhood and they all run to the window and of their like beautiful apartment and
[17:34]they're looking down and the Nazis are like right there. Do you remember, you know what I'm talking about?
[17:39]Yeah, and that seemed like totally stayed with me and then and I was trying to imagine it
[17:45]when I was like sitting on the couch here like oh my gosh, can you imagine if they were like
[17:49]right there and then like fast forward not too long and there were protesters like right out
[17:55]my window and we had the same thing of like going to the window and my kids were here and like
[18:01]calling and FaceTiming, you know, I was like oh my gosh, I thought this was just in a book or movie
[18:07]or whatever and now here we are. So I'm just wondering how you feel about where we are today
[18:12]in relation to this, especially with all the anti-Semitism publishing world and all of that too.
[18:19]I know, I know first, I mean obviously with through the lucky ones, I think it was 2008 when I
[18:24]set off to start interviewing relatives and I never ever would have thought that the book
[18:30]and the themes and the story and their lives what they face would feel so relevant today like that
[18:35]was just impossible in my mind. But here we are, it does, it's crazy. It feels like the world's
[18:42]moving backwards and statistics when you start to read them are horrifying not not only about
[18:48]anti-Semitism which is just rampant but with how little like younger generations even know about
[18:54]the Holocaust and so for me it's kind of just and also it's it's I feel this urgency because
[19:01]where 80 years outright was just the Holocaust remember and say we celebrated the 80th anniversary
[19:06]of the liberation of Auschwitz. So the survivors are fewer and fewer and I feel an urgency now more
[19:11]than ever to tell their story for that reason and also just because if we can find ways to reach
[19:17]younger audiences especially, I just feel like often the stem of anti-Semitism is lack of knowledge
[19:24]and if we can at least try to share a bit of history in a way that doesn't feel like we're
[19:30]forcing it down people's throats or this doesn't feel like we're painting in statistics but
[19:34]that just feels human. It's just a human story about what it was like to be there perhaps we can
[19:39]raise awareness and and not only that but find ways that as readers or watchers or if you're going
[19:46]to see the play whatever a medium it is that you can relate but they can relate to the story
[19:52]then we can empathize and then the conversations can be had and then the world can like
[19:57]into its way toward a better place. Do you know what I mean?
[20:00]we just need more empathy. And when you don't know about something or you have a very narrow
[20:06]minded view on it, there's just no, there's no path toward relating and toward empathy.
[20:11]No, I, you know, I just, it's, it's heartbreaking and it's scary where we are right now,
[20:16]but I'm trying to draw hope from stories like lilies, from stories like my own families that I'm
[20:20]very lucky enough to still be talking about today and actually like talking a lot in schools
[20:25]today. So I'm getting into a lot of middle schools, high schools colleges to talk about it
[20:30]and we're developing a curriculum even around it. So that brings me so much hope that like
[20:35]the conversations are being had and, you know, popular culture is a way for us to decide
[20:41]it as a society. What's important? Like what should we be talking about? So if I can sort of
[20:46]keep telling these stories and ways that feel colorful and modern and relevant, then sort of how I
[20:52]feel, I feel like it's how I sleep at night. No, that's great. I mean, I feel the same way. Like
[20:58]if you really put yourself in someone's shoes, how can you just blatantly hate them? I mean,
[21:04]that's an oversimplification, but we have to create more empathy. I 100% agree. Have you,
[21:10]have you felt like you have been a victim of any antisemitism as a result of writing these books or
[21:17]anything like that? I have not. Thank goodness. I have not. I feel, and I feel very lucky about
[21:23]that. How about you? I mean, I feel like have you, I'm sure. Yeah. Well, if your book just came out
[21:29]that was literally called on being Jewish, right? Like, I mean, I think one of the biggest,
[21:34]most blatant thing is all the stores who are unwilling to take it. And we've had a lot of
[21:39]bookstores who don't want to take any books I publish because I'm Jewish, which is crazy
[21:44]because even the authors are not Jewish. So yeah, we've had it's real. It's real. It's very
[21:51]real and very open. People will literally say like, we're not going to carry your books anymore.
[21:55]I'm like, yeah, I can read your book or yeah, yeah. Oh, not to mention all of that.
[22:01]I'm certain that that's happening. I haven't personally felt it. And I'm glad. I don't want
[22:08]Jewish author, you know, because a lot of people are now scared. A lot of other Jewish authors
[22:12]are scared to even dip their toes in the water because they're afraid. And so it's great to
[22:16]have experiences that are untarnished. So that's good. Yes. Yeah. For sure. I feel very lucky.
[22:23]What are you working on now? Are you working on another book? Or are you just, are you going to
[22:27]not just promote, but you know, all that? Oh, yeah, we're ramping up on the month away from launch
[22:32]years. So there's a lot happening. And I'm actually heading out to LA tomorrow for the
[22:35]Credit Choice Awards for fun. So we got more lucky enough to get a couple nominations there. So
[22:41]I'm really still balancing both projects. The series, the book of the first one. And then now
[22:48]one good thing. And I'll be traveling a bunch in March for a book tour. And I have ideas circulating
[22:55]for a third book. I'm not sure yet. I'm not ready to put a stake in the ground, but my kids are
[23:00]sweet. My boys are 13 and seven. And they really want me to write a children's book and they want
[23:04]to write it with me. So perhaps I kind of laughed it off for the first few times that they suggested
[23:10]it. And when they stuck with it, I was like, you know, maybe there's something there. So I have
[23:14]some ideas that perhaps might lead to a children's book or a young adult or we'll see. But again,
[23:21]I think I keep coming back to that audience. I just seventh grade. I don't know. There's just such
[23:25]so such a pivotal age for I can see to my son and for I remember from when I was that age. So
[23:32]finding a way to reach that audience would be pretty pretty neat. I have written children's books.
[23:38]And I'm not doing a graphic novel with different various kids mine. And it is I highly recommend it.
[23:44]Whether or not anything happens with the projects, but my like my daughter who's 11, we've been
[23:49]working on this really fun graphic novel. And we're we got it colored and illustrated. And like,
[23:54]it's been the greatest thing to work on something with her. And I have her ideas in there. So
[23:59]I would recommend doing any projects with the kids because at the end of the day, what are we going
[24:02]to remember? Like the novel I have in a drawer that I never want anyone to see or, you know,
[24:08]this manuscript, some time that we've been working on it together. That is probably
[24:12]definitely the nudge that I need. So thank you. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors,
[24:18]especially in historical fiction and your genre? Yeah. I think, you know, when something
[24:23]peaks your interest or your curiosity, follow your nose and see where it takes you, you know,
[24:28]for me, Lily's story actually started very differently in my mind of where she would go,
[24:33]where she would begin and end and how the story would unfold. And so I think also be open-minded to
[24:38]as you get into the nitty gritty, just see what feels right, you know, work with the work with a
[24:43]good team too. If you have, if you have been a half an agent, amazing, if not, find a book,
[24:48]a writing group or someone who you trust and love to read your work and share some feedback.
[24:53]But I think it's important, you know, to pick, pick a subject or a theme that means something to you.
[25:00]So don't try to write for anybody. Don't try to, you know, pick a subject that's relevant today
[25:05]because it's just to be by the time your book comes out is probably not going to be relevant.
[25:09]The whole process is so long and you're going to live with it for a long time. So pick something
[25:13]that settles in your heart that you kind of be like, oh, I wouldn't mind spending time with this,
[25:17]where I really feel like I need to get this out and then take the time and do the research and
[25:23]do the writing and read, read Bird by Bird by Anlamath if you're new to this because she will
[25:29]hold your hand until you it's okay to write like really ugly first drafts,
[25:33]fuses a better word than that. And kind of talk either the process and then just have the
[25:38]faith that if you keep, keep going and see where it and maybe it'll be a book or maybe it'll be a
[25:43]podcast or maybe it'll be a play like maybe it'll be a series. There's so many ways that content
[25:48]can come to life now that it's some, it's exciting. It's exciting to be creating it because I
[25:53]feel like there are so many different outlets. So again, kind of trusting your heart to see what
[25:58]feels right there. But surround yourself with people. As you start asking the questions as you start
[26:03]sharing your work who love you and who support you. And I think that then let things bubble up from
[26:10]love it. Well, good luck at the critics choice of words. I would definitely watch. I would like
[26:16]to show junkie. You'd find it be at the table and just there was so much hard work put into that
[26:21]show. So I'm just proud to like have that recognized. Well, it's well-deserved. So good and so
[26:28]powerful like all your stuff. So congratulations. And thanks for coming on. Thanks for
[26:32]having me. My pleasure. Okay. Bye, George. Thank you. Thank you for listening to totally booked
[26:39]with Zibi, formerly momstone have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend,
[26:44]leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much.
[26:51]Oh, and bye the books.