Sash Bischoff, SWEET FURY

[1:18]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at zibby owens. Sash Bischoff is the author of sweet fury. Sach is a writer and theater director. She has written plays that have been developed at theaters throughout The US. As a director, she has worked on Broadway and off. Her Broadway slash national tours include Dear Evan Hansen, The Visit, On the Town, How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying, and Shrek. Sach grew up as an actor and won the National Arts Award for acting. She lives in New York with her husband and their many pets. Sweet Fury is her first novel. Welcome, Sash. Thanks so much for coming on to talk about Sweet Fury, your novel. So good. So twisty and awesome and escapist and oh my gosh. Really, really fun. Congratulations.

[2:46]Sash Bischoff: Thank you very much. And I have to tell you, this is my first podcast ever, so I am so thrilled. I feel like I'm starting at the top.

[2:55]Zibby Owens: Yeah. It doesn't get better than this. Let me tell you. Well, I would argue this will be the most informal of all the podcasts because I just really love having conversations and well, congrats. Wow. Your first podcast. Welcome to the field. Okay. Well, I often ask the the hardest, most boring, annoying question first, which is to tell listeners about the book so you can practice your elevator pitch on on our guinea pigs here. Yes.

[3:22]Sash Bischoff: So Sweet Period is a literary thriller. The main character, Lila Crane, is America's sweetheart. She is a film actress adored the whole world over. And at the start of the book, she and her boyfriend, who's a famous film director, have moved to the West Village in New York because they are about to begin filming their feminist adaptation of f Scott Fitzgerald's Tender the Night, in which Lila's playing the leading role. And so to begin preparing for the role, she starts working with esteemed therapist, Jonah Gabriel, to dig into the trauma of her past. But as Lila's perfect life unravels,

[3:56]Zibby Owens: the characters of Sweet Fury soon became entangled in a deadly game of revenge in which everyone on screen and off plays a part. Yes. And I I did not see where this was going. I see this all the time. I like, how many times do I have to remind people that I am, like, the most gullible reader? But I I I find such delight when things, like, go where you, like, where you took us, which I will not reveal. But anyway, it was very, very clever. Anyway. Okay. So you have this whole F. Scott Fitzgerald thing going. You have this Princeton thing going. You have ambition and fame, and you have therapy and all of that. Where did this whole jumble come from? Not jumble because it all makes sense in Where the do you how did you pick all these threads? Like, where did the story come from? Take us back. Yeah. Well, so I began

[4:50]Sash Bischoff: I I grew up as an actor, and I was acting professionally throughout my childhood and then made the transition into directing. And that was my full time career up until the pandemic. I went to school for writing, and writing was always very important to me, but it was always secondary. And so I was, you know, directing, and I was working on Broadway and off regularly, and I was the the associate director in Dear Evan Hansen from 2018 on. And so I was literally putting an actor into the show for that night when we got the call that Broadway was shutting down. So, I mean, it was just absolutely insane. All of us in the industry went away. And so I pivoted and I I just sort of said, I'm gonna take this as a sign. I've always had this dream of being a writer. I'm going to try. And so, obviously, the acting and directing really influenced this book. It plays a huge part in this book. I began with two ideas. I sort of I think this happens for a lot of writers, but I get these sort of inspirations and flashes. I had the I knew that I wanted to document the relationship between a film actress and her therapist through their session notes together. And then I knew the big final twist at the end. So I had the beginning and at the end of the story, but I had no idea how to get from a to z. When I submitted the first draft to my wonderful writers group, one of the novelists in the group said, you know, the themes and the idea that this book is exploring are really reminiscent of Tender is the Night. What if these characters what if the film adaptation they were making was of Tender? At that point, I had actually I'd never read Tender before. I'd only read The Great Gatsby. And so I read it and realized that her suggestion was genius. And so I give all credit to Blair Hurley, an amazing writer, for bringing Fitzgerald into this book. And the more I mean, I really went into a Fitzgerald rabbit hole where I literally read every single thing that he'd ever written and almost every book that was ever written about him. And the deeper I dug, the more I realized that my book should be not just in conversation with Tender but with his body of work as a whole.

[6:51]Zibby Owens: So cool. And you are in a writing group I read at the end with Laura Hankin, who's been on this podcast, like, multiple times. My best friend. I adore her. Aw. Actually, she was one of my very last podcast before the pandemic in person. Oh, yeah. She was, like, one of the last, and we did it. We made some joke when we did it because we did it so early. And we were like, well, you know, in case you know, something like, you never know what's gonna happen with the world, but at least we got our podcast done. And then literally, the world, like, imploded. And we were like, was it our fault? Did we make this happen?

[7:25]Sash Bischoff: Do you miss doing it in person?

[7:28]Zibby Owens: So wait. Go back to your child acting days. How tell me more about that and

[7:34]Sash Bischoff: what you did and how you got into it and how you feel about it. So I began acting when I was six, and it was because I had this incurable shyness. I was that child that, like, when somebody would bend down to say hello, I would bury my face in my mother's thigh. I'm confused to look at them, and my mom was like, this has gotta change. So she was like, theater. Theater is the answer. She had me audition for this regional production of A Christmas Carol, and I could sing. And so I sang my little song, I got in. And, you know, the production finished, and my mom was like, okay. Want it done. It's cured. Moving on. And I said, no. I found my passion, my calling. And so I began acting. I became obsessed with it. I sort of never do anything halfway. And so I was doing, you know, regional theater and community theater and children's theater. And then as I got into high school, I was living in San Diego. I started driving up to LA almost every day after school to do film and TV as well. And I I mean, I love acting. I I still do. But there were a couple of things that sort of made me shift to directing. One is that as an actor, you are a very important piece, but a piece in the puzzle. And as a director, your job is to put all the pieces of the puzzle together. And I I love that sort of creative challenge. I love working with the designers. I love working with all of the actors and digging into their character. I love sort of shaping the larger story. Directing is really just another form of storytelling, like writing. And I think the other reason, which, you know, the theme sort of comes into this book in a different from a different angle. But for me, being an actor, I found it really difficult to be constantly judged based on my looks. You know, there's an emphasis in both theater and TV and film for women, especially, of being young and beautiful and small and thin. And that became a major source of anxiety for me, particularly as a girl growing up and figuring out her own body. And I wanted to find a career where that was not going to be how my worth was judged.

[9:36]Zibby Owens: That makes total sense. By the way, when you just, like, say offhand, I used to drive up from San Diego after school to be I mean, that is far just for people who don't know how that drive is. Like, I've been stuck in that drive, and that is commitment in and of itself. It was it was totally ludicrous. Like, my mom would drive me so that I could prepare for my audition on the way up or or whatever.

[10:02]Sash Bischoff: And then the way home in the middle of the night, I had a freaking headlamp. Oh my gosh. Do my homework in the passenger seat, and we would cackle because I would you know, if my mom would say something to me or I would notice something, I would look up, and my mom would say, don't look up because it was like another headlight flashing and blinding her.

[10:21]Zibby Owens: Oh my gosh. Well, that is commitment. I mean, wow. Real commitment. By the way, Dear Evan Hansen is probably my favorite show ever. I saw it multiple times. I've never cried as hard in the theater. Like, not even appropriate crying levels, just, like, all out sobbing.

[10:40]Sash Bischoff: Just ugly cry. Yeah. Ugly crying. Yeah. Ugly crying in Dear Evan Hansen. And then I took my kids back to see it. Anyway, so good. So congratulations on that. You must feel so much pride. Thank you. Yeah. It was an amazing show to work on. It's just that was you know, I'd worked on a number of Broadway shows before that, but that was the one where I really got to I mean, it was an institution already. It was some sort of a machine when I entered the project. I wasn't there from the beginning. And so to be given that sort of seat where I was maintaining the show and sort of running both Broadway and the national tours was an incredible privilege, and I learned so, so much. Are you working on any shows now? Well, absolutely not. Are you paying me? This is like this is a full time job. I am finished my second book, and I'm, like, editing it now. So I'm I'm just fully being a writer right now. Oh my gosh. You already finished your second book. I can tell, like, if I spent more time with you, I would just be routinely made to feel unproductive

[11:35]Zibby Owens: by whatever volume. No. No. Not intentionally. I can just like, you are one of these, like, super producers, and that's awesome. So what is your second book? Well, I can't say too much about it, but, basically, it takes place on an island off the in the Northeast Coast Of America,

[11:50]Sash Bischoff: takes place over the course of I think it's gonna be three generations starting about now and then going into the future about seventy years. And what you find out over the course is one of the one of the twists, so I can't tell you what it is, but that it is a modern feminist adaptation of a Greek tragedy. And it also deals with how it looks at the island as a microcosm as how America is dealing with the climate crisis. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

[12:14]Zibby Owens: Oh gosh. He already finished it. Wow. Well, it's a mess, but yes, it exists. I mean, that's okay. Once you have a mess, you can clean it up. Right? Getting it's like getting it into the room to begin with. Oh my goodness. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand mark up. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[15:07]Zibby Owens: So you have this riding group you've been in forever with your college friends. How does that work, and how have you all achieved success as a result? Like, what is the secret of your writing group that we should all put into

[15:20]Sash Bischoff: well, should we all get writing groups? I'm not even in a writing group. Like, tell me the whole thing. I mean, it depends based on the writer. But for me, it has been truly my lifeline. I mean, my husband, they are number two in the the acknowledgments, basically. I so I actually started the group myself. I was coming I I went to Princeton, and they have an amazing creative writing department there. And coming out of that, I knew that I was gonna pursue a career as a theater director, but I also knew that I wanted to continue to write and that that was gonna be hard to sort of pursue two careers in tandem. And so I had this idea to create a group to be as as a sort of accountability measure for myself to keep writing. And so I I sort of reached out. I actually just found these emails a month or so ago to all of these Princeton people from my from my class whose emails were or they're all about to expire, you know, our at Princeton dot e d u, all about to go away. So I was like, quick guys. Like, does anybody wanna do this with me? And a lot of people said no. A bunch of people said yes, and then they, you know, did it for a year or two and then went on to different careers as you do. But two of the writers, from my group, Blair Hurley, who's published two books, and Daria Lavelle, whose debut Aftertaste is incredible and is coming out in May with Simon and Schuster. They said yes, so they've been there from the start. And then Laura Hankin joined a few years ago, and then Lovell Holder, whose book is debut is coming out in December of next year. And so the five of us have, you know for a while, we were meeting every two weeks. Now it's whenever we can, but it's it's really been my secret sauce because I'm these are some of my deepest, closest friends. You know, I have known them for almost twenty years now, which is insane. We all write in a slightly different genre. So there's no there's truly no competition. I know that we all have our backs and our best interests at heart, and I value their feedback and their thoughts so much. And they they really I mean, they were in the weeds with me in creating Sweet Fury, and it is I mean, Blair Hurley was bringing in f Scott Fitzgerald into the book, and, you know, Daria was sort of helping me with all of the twists in terms of the plot. They each one of them gave me so much in in creating Sweet Fury. So I don't know what I would do without this group.

[17:33]Zibby Owens: Well, I bet you helped them with theirs too. Right? I mean, it goes both ways. I mean, I think it's sometimes easier to see something that's going right or wrong in someone else's book than your own book. Right? Totally agree. Oh god.

[17:48]Sash Bischoff: There is I mean, this is, you know, is just like such a twisty plot driven book. Mhmm. I was never a plotter. Now I am, but I used to be a pantser. And I really feel like I learned Sweet Fury taught me how to plot a novel, you know, how to how to write that. But there would be so many times during the drafting where I'd be in the middle line saying, oh my god. How do I how do I fix this? I've written myself into a corner. You know? So I thank my group for helping me get out of those corners.

[18:17]Zibby Owens: Oh my gosh. So exciting. This feels like it should be its own adaptation,

[18:22]Sash Bischoff: which, of course, would kind of be, like, meta with the whole, you know, maybe the whole thing. Is there talk of that? And Yeah. Yeah. Nothing I can say. But, yes, it is very much, you know, being talked about in in the works, and we're trying to make it happen. That would be my dream.

[18:38]Zibby Owens: Do you have stars who you kind of imagined in your head for any of these roles?

[18:43]Sash Bischoff: Oh, good question. I mean, taking sort of age away, I feel like I don't know if this happens to you, but, like, the people that I grow up with, it's when they're sort of in their twenties and thirties, I I think of them as always in their twenties and thirties. But Totally. When, like, Charlize Theron would be in place, Lila, Jonah, I think I kind of wrote with Eddie Redmayne in my mind. Oh, okay. Alright. Do you have people that popped up for you that you picked? I was thinking more like

[19:11]Zibby Owens: the woman from this is I, like, can't even make a sense. Don Draper, the ad show that oh my god. What is the name of the Oh, Mad Men? Or Mad Men. Okay. You know the the wife in Mad Men? Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You know, like, with the blonde hair, how she's, like, self infix? I'm not gonna get the name. But I can't remember her name either, but I kind of I mean, that I kinda got those vibes too. You know? Because she was so like, everything was okay. I don't know. She had Yeah. Yeah. That's who I was. I was kinda picturing her, if I could remember her name. Nice. Yeah. Maybe people listening are, like, yelling out at their cars, like, no. No. It's this actress. How can you both not know this person's name? I know. Exactly. What is wrong with you guys? Tell me about your writing process and also, like, paint a picture of the environment? Like, right now, you're in this beautiful glass room with, like, palm fronds behind you, like, looking like you're in, like, I don't know, like, the Beverly Hills Hotel brought to life or something. What was it like writing this book and was it as glamorous as it may seem? 100%, no.

[20:18]Sash Bischoff: Not where I write. I write I mean, I'm in my my husband and I, so I have I'm a big animal lover and I have a I rescue I just have this bleeding heart to rescue animals in need. And so I have six animals at the moment. I know. Two dogs and four cats, all rescues. And, basically, you know, we live in this teeny tiny apartment in the West Village, and the animals all get along. They all cuddle with one another. The dogs and cats are best friends. It's very cute. But, you know, I began this book at the start of the pandemic, so nothing about my writing life was luxurious or fun. I was basically, like, in lockdown and not going outside except to walk the dogs with a mask on. But, yeah, you know, I I have my teeny tiny desk, you know, my teeny tiny chair in the corner, and I just sit down and put my headphones on and listen to some music, and I start I start writing. And but the funny thing about my my writing situation is that the animals all congregate around me in sort of like a kumbaya session. So, like, the two dogs are splayed on the floor belly up, and then I have a cat that loves to, like, step on the keys. I have a cat that sits in my lap. I have a cat that literally drapes himself over the back of my shoulder so that I have to hunch over to keep him there. And then I have a feral cat that, like, hides in the closet.

[21:34]Zibby Owens: Oh my gosh. Wow. See, I would never have brought I would never have thought. Who knew, you know, that there was, you know, Noah's Ark basically in your give me comfort. You know? I can do this, but I have them all around me. Oh my gosh. That's so amazing. So aside from your writing group people and all of their books, which, of course, you're reading, when you go for some fun reading when you're and not f Scott Fitzgerald deep diving, what are some of the things you like to read or the genres you like best or a book you've loved or something like that? I'm a literary fiction girl all the way. I think, like, some of my favorite authors are Lauren Groff. I think her language is just

[22:17]Sash Bischoff: exquisite and I dream of being as good a writer as she is. I love, I mean, Donna Tartt feels like the sort of the queen of what I hope to do at some point in my life. I love Michael Cunningham. I love Lisa Tadeo. I feel like she and I have a lot of overlap in terms of what we're interested in and stylistically, and I just am obsessed with every single one of her books. Hanya Yanagihara, I love. The list goes on.

[22:46]Zibby Owens: Love it. Yeah. It's so you know, I've read books by all those authors. And as you kept saying one after another, I'm like, oh, I never list them in my favorites, but I forget about them. Do you know what mean? Not necessarily forget, but like, oh, yeah, them too. But it says a lot, like, that that's your, you know It must be very hard for you interviewing all of these authors to, like, say who your favorites are. Oh, no. I'm not saying I have favorites. I mean, yeah, I mean, that's true too. But it's just like, that says so much. Like, that's such a shorthand for the kind of writing you do. Like, it's such a good description, those authors in particular. I don't know. I thought that, Like, you get such a sense. Like, yes, of course, I have a total sense of their their sort of general writing aesthetic. Anyway, you know what I mean. Okay. So advice to aspiring authors. Do you have any? Yeah. The big the big sigh.

[23:39]Sash Bischoff: Yeah. I mean, so much. But I mean, I think, first of all, you know, I think the adage of writing every day is really true. Some people can't do that. There are times in my life that I can't like, for example, right now with publicity efforts, there's no way in hell that I am writing right now. But, you know, as often as you can, just put a pen to paper, keep put your butt in the seat. Read, but also read well. You know, re choose choose selectively the books that you want to read because it does, I think, have a huge influence on the right not not to say that you're going to start sounding like your, you know, dream author, but it will have an impact on the direction that you go and the way that your mind works and what thoughts are flowing through your mind. And I think the biggest one for me is I, you know, I had I didn't really go down this road, but there were a number, you know, of times over the course of my life when it because I was always writing, but even though it was secondary, where I, you know, was told no, that I wasn't good enough, you know, and sort of cut down. And that is, you know, part of the game. Everybody experiences it. Even the Pulitzer Prize winners experience it at some point. But that deep down inside you, if you know that this is what you really wanna do, what keeps you up at night, you have to just believe in yourself and keep going, and eventually, there's gonna be a yes.

[24:57]Zibby Owens: I love that. Very inspiring. Excellent. Okay. Well, Sweet Fury, amazing. Congratulations. I hope you survived your first podcast. Okay. That was so easy and fun. Good luck on the rest and all the crazy publicity you are about to do. And, yeah, thank you for the immersive experience and all the the shocks little shocks and twists and all that. So thank you. Thank you, Zoe. This was delightful. Thank you. Alright. Bye, Sash. Okay. Bye bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.