"Abbott Elementary's" Quinta Brunson - REPLAY!

[1:36]Zibby Owens: Welcome to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books hosted by me, Zibby Owens. It's an award winning podcast with over 1,900 episodes all featuring authors of books you love and those you have yet to discover. Listen daily five times a week. Then go to zippymedia.com and learn more about what the LA Times called the Zippyverse. Zippy Media includes Zippy's Bookshop, an independent bookstore in Santa Monica, Zippy Books Publishing, Zippy Retreats, Zippy's Book Club, and more. Go check it out at zippymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens. It'll take you where you need to go. Thanks for listening. Hi, everybody. This is one of the replay bonus episodes to get you through the holiday season. Maybe you missed some. There have been over 2,000 episodes. We are going into a rebrand where we're going to be changing the name of the podcast from moms don't have time to read books to Zippy's podcast. So that is happening in the new year. In the meantime, have a listen, enjoy, and let me know what you think. Bye. I had the best time interviewing Quinta Brunson, who is the author of She Memes Well, and that's spelled m e m e s, which is a collection of deeply personal and funny essays featuring anecdotes about trying to make it while you're broke, overcoming self doubt and depression, and using humor to navigate a career in unusual directions. Quinta was named one of Forbes 30 Under 30 in Hollywood and Entertainment and one of The Hollywood Reporter's digital disruptors. Quinta's original content has reached hundreds of millions of people and her followers across Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube, which has hit 2,500,000 and counting. Quinta most recently starred in HBO's critically acclaimed sketch comedy series, a black lady sketch show opposite Robin Thede, Gabrielle Dennis, and Ashley Nicole Black as one of the core cast of black women. Quinta has also lent her voice to a plethora of projects, including Adult Swim's Laser Wolf, where she is also a staff writer and season four of Netflix's Big Mouth. I absolutely love this book and I hope you will too. Here's our conversation. Welcome, Quinta. Thank you so much for coming on. Moms don't have time to read books to discuss. She memes well.

[3:52]Abbott Elementary: Thank you so much for having me. I'm very happy to be here.

[3:56]Zibby Owens: I loved this book. I posted on Instagram about it. I'm such a fan. It had like just the right mix of every element you could want in a personal memoir and in a unique way. The thing I love, well, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have jumped in. Welcome, how are you doing?

[4:13]Abbott Elementary: No, that's fine. I'm doing well. I am doing all this stuff that you have to do when a book is coming out on promotional stuff. But what's fun about this process is hearing people like you say that you genuinely enjoyed the book. It's very nice. I don't think that'll ever get old because that's what you do it for. For people you don't know to enjoy the book. Well, there you go. I'm your market audience here. Are you on the couch now that you talk about in the book? I am, I'm on the couch now. Yep, this couch has seen many a days. At post pandemic, it's still seeing a lot of my butt, Okay,

[4:50]Zibby Owens: so maybe you should tell people what your book is about and then I'll go into why I liked it and ask you a bunch of questions. Yeah.

[4:57]Abbott Elementary: So, this book is a book of personal essays memoirs, but the theme that I tried to keep was my growth as a person aligning with the growth of the internet. That's kind of what's moving through as we go through the book. So it's funny. On another hand, it really tracks the digital sharing age of the internet while I'm being the sharing age of Quinta is also being tracked as well in the book. And yeah, I think that that's what I've gotten down to to say it's about. That doesn't sound really cool though. I like that. I wouldn't have thought you were gonna tie in the internet growth into your description. Yeah, it was a huge part of It was the original motivator in writing the book. It was me wanting to track the growth of the internet, you know, in digital sharing age. But like with most memoirs, you wind up talking about yourself a lot and that I tried to just like keep that balance, I think.

[5:53]Zibby Owens: So. No, it worked. Otherwise it would have seemed like an expose on an industry or something. This is more like a gradual tracking. Exactly.

[6:02]Abbott Elementary: Yeah.

[6:04]Zibby Owens: And you know, part that I liked is that from the beginning, including one passage, think at the middle and then all the way at the end, you involve the reader so actively. Right? Like, you're actually talking to us. Like, you're like, all right, settle in. Like, here we go. Yeah. Here you know, this is why I'm doing it. And then like in the middle of the book, when you get engaged, I was like you're like, Today, as I sat down to write this, you know, two days ago I got engaged. I'm like, Yay, that happened. What was relevant? It's like we went along with you while all this stuff was happening so that by the time you got to the end of writing it, it's like we relived it and got to the satisfaction of like you finishing the book somehow we all like got to share and celebrate.

[6:44]Abbott Elementary: Yeah, I mean, love that. And part of the goal of the book was to, I talk about memes a lot in the book as you know, but I talk about sharing with people and one of the beauties of memes is like sharing a small moment. And so it was exciting when I, of course, when I got engaged, but also exciting to be able to share that right then in that moment with the book, you know. It's something that normally you reserve for Twitter, but you don't get to write a whole chapter that then ties into, you know, stuff with your mom and like what all that moment does make you think about. So that, it was exciting to have those moments that in the twenty twenty chapter at the end. Yes. And even though I personally don't think that's the best chapter in the book, to me, it's my favorite because it was all happening. And I was like, I have this opportunity to write about something major that is happening in the world. And I didn't wanna like shy away from that. I thought it was a corrupt. No, you needed

[7:46]Zibby Owens: it. And because we had come along on this journey with you, it was like, you know, I was having a panic attack with you. I was like, get me out of this crowd. What am I doing here? Like, no. Joking aside, though, I found it to be extremely compelling how you wrote about your experience of sort of being black in America and your amazing education, which by the way, I'm sorry that was illegal and had to like that the school had to like, you know, disappear. But what a unique way to be educated through the context, through that lens of Black history taking center stage. And like it should be like a required,

[8:27]Abbott Elementary: like at least course or something, you know, like everything seen through that lens. Absolutely. I mean, there's such a huge conversation going on about that now currently about critical race theory being taught in schools. But for me, within my elementary schooling, can't even call it critical race theory. It was just a direct, here's what happened, here's the reality of your existence here and we're gonna learn via that where I didn't realize it so much later in my life that other kids didn't get that same schooling in my school. And that's what was so interesting, which is why I really wanted to write that chapter because it was such, it's one of those experiences where retroactively, you're like, holy shit, I didn't, I can't believe I got to be part of that. And I think it's made me a much better person and I'm even able to give my teachers credit for it. Like, can't put into words. So hopefully that chapter does for them how

[9:22]Zibby Owens: much I think that defined me. And even how you had to make the boat. Yeah. Timber and how it was essentially like a week long class trip where they taught you what it was like to in slavery times that you would have to make the boat to escape. And you were like, what? I'm not what am I gonna do with What

[9:39]Abbott Elementary: was cool about it too is everything was, you know, those weren't presented to us upfront. Like here's what we're doing today. We're learning what slaves do. It was like, we're gonna go do a, you know, an arts project. My teachers, I'm sure were like, we have this excellent opportunity. We found this place called Philadelphia Boatwork. This is a great opportunity to teach about math and skill and construction. And then they kind of were like, and by the way, like fourth graders, this is also something that like your people did often. That create like, it was always a, this just tied into our human experience. And I think that's what was really cool about it. Like we didn't know that

[10:17]Zibby Owens: we were getting this like basically critical race theory discussion in our school. But yeah, it was really cool. So funny. I mean, not to like try to draw any sort of a parallel, but like I went to Hebrew school as a kid, right? And every time we went, we would like learn about the Holocaust again and again. And every year we're like, aren't we gonna cover something else? Like, come on. Like, I remember like the same textbook. What is like, is there nothing else to teach us? But it's like, you're sort of like inculcated, right? So you gradually and then like somehow or other you turn around and all of a sudden I'm like, Oh, I'm scared of German people. Do you know mean? Like that wasn't necessarily the message, right? But you learn so much about I don't It's like it comes in through the teaching. I don't know. And then you have to anyway, random analogy. I know. No, but I get it. I get where you're coming from. I think for me, which I talk

[11:06]Abbott Elementary: about in the book, it was like, it just helped me navigate through this world, which I want other kids to have the opportunity to do, not just black kids, but if I think America's white children learned upfront what the history of this country was, instead of being bombarded with it at 19 or 20 on Twitter. Like, I just think, like, it would make such a huge difference if we all just knew our history much sooner and not the squeaky clean version of America's history. Right. No, for sure. You

[11:41]Zibby Owens: also do such a nice job. The scene with your mom when she didn't want you to wear those earrings. Like you have a scene where you buy this $2.99 pair of really chunky gold earrings and she didn't want you to wear them and whatever. And you know, she was saying she didn't wanna lose you as you went off. Right? And you realize later in the book why she's saying that. Yeah. And the power of sort of seeing your parents as real people. Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah. You know, my mother and I, our relationship,

[12:07]Abbott Elementary: I it's the thing I I obsess over as in, you know, I just think about our relationship all the time for no reason because she is the most critical person in my life in a way I wouldn't take that from anybody else. I mean, I guess this is not unique. A lot of us are like that with our mothers, but she's also like one of the people I admire most in my life. Like when I And so I think our relationship was very complicated growing up. As I talk about in the book, we were never the screaming at each other type, but we could reach some real points of contention that were very complex, because I, in a lot of ways was like, you made me like this. Why are you mad at what you created? And I'm sure she probably had a little bit of like, I know her potential. I know what she is. I just don't want her to get hurt, you know? And so I wanted to write about that because I don't believe it's unique. I think so many girls have complicated relationships with their mothers, especially black girls. And I don't think that that complexity has been explored as much yet. You know, like in TV and film, we've seen bad relationships and we've seen good relationships. Bad relationships can be really bad, but I think there's this in between world with mothers and daughters where there is so much that you're sifting through, so much generational womanhood stuff. Even the issue of like, we all joke about it, but when you get married, when you're having children, that's like a huge issue for us. I'm a more modern woman. We don't technically have to get married. Like we don't have to like get married to navigate through the world. But you know, my mom's generation, it was kind of a requirement not only to be seen as like a respectful woman, but it was a requirement to do other things. Like, you know, Marriage was such a huge part of your ability to be successful. So we'll have our little teeny arguments and those arguments are about much bigger things. Like if my mom says something about my hair, it's also connected to my success in America. When are you going to get married? Are you being a promiscuous woman or are you being a good woman? Does God like your hair? It's so much tied into that one question. Do you like God still? It's just so much. So that chapter, it felt like the most natural way to talk about my relationship with my mom. I love starting with the simplest of things like earrings and going into a big overarching issue. And also that day was just so prevalent in my mind. I think about that day a lot. And so it was a little therapeutic to write about it and to go back and ask my mom, like, you remember that day? Like, do you remember that as well as I remember it? And it was funny that she didn't, but it has such an effect on me.

[15:14]Zibby Owens: And I found that unique too. For my mom, that was kind of just another argument. But for me, it was so weighty. But yeah, so like I'm rambling now. No, not at all. Now I'm in my head, I'm thinking, Oh gosh, like what are my kids going to remember the rest of their lives? For me, I don't even like, I couldn't even tell you what happened yesterday.

[15:31]Abbott Elementary: I know. I'm like, Man, what ways am I going to give my child a nervous breakdown?

[15:37]Zibby Owens: I also wanted to wait. I wanted to find this passage where you were talking about friendship and how well, we'll see if yeah. I love this. This is my favorite line, I think, in the book. Does a like replace a lunch? Maybe it's because I'm also sort of obsessed with social media myself. But Mhmm. You said, I probably sound like a cranky old person right now, but I just care about genuine connection because it has given me so much. How often do you physically engage with what your friends are going through? Does a comment fill the same space as a call? Does a like replace a lunch? If you're lucky enough to have multiple close friends, even if they aren't lifelong ones, what are you doing to show them that you value those people, that you wanna maintain the relationship? What more can you do besides sending a meme or an emoji reaction? Sure, media can bring us together, but it will not always foster those connections that can get us to grow together. Wow.

[16:23]Abbott Elementary: It's so cool hearing other people things grow back to you because I haven't heard any of this stuff out loud. I don't know. Oh, it sounds great. Yeah. I was like, wow, that

[16:37]Zibby Owens: sounds pretty good. I could keep going. I have a few more messages. Have all these pages.

[16:43]Abbott Elementary: No, that was great. Wow.

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[19:31]Zibby Owens: So do after thinking this whole thing through, like, do you feel like you took your own advice, or do you feel like sometimes you do fall into the trap of a heart emoji instead of a phone call? Definitely,

[19:44]Abbott Elementary: definitely still fall into the trap. I mean, one thing just going into your question, when I was writing this book, was like, I don't want to tell people, I don't want to make a tell all book or a how to book. Wanted to talk as if these are things I think are right and I'm striving to do. I think the most preachy chapter is the chapter about makeup and stuff. But I know I got preachy in that one, but I feel strongly about that subject. But this one hard. Some of the friends I even talk about in that book, in that, I'm sorry, in that chapter, I like, we only communicate through Instagram messaging. And I'm like, Ugh, I have to get better at this. But that's huge for us. Like these are friends from high school who a like or comment or a heart could suffice, but I'm trying to make a point to communicate, especially with my friend Tiara, who just has such a totally different lifestyle from me, but we both still strive to be in each other's lives. Sometimes that just means making the effort. Like when I go back East, I do hit her up like, Hey, you want to get together? And she's like, I can't because I got to do this and I got to pick up my baby and blah, blah, blah. It's just like different lifestyles eventually become the changing factor. But on a much larger, on a different thing, there's a friend from high school I saw out here recently and now we're hanging out because I'm like, I want to hang out with you. So we've been getting lunch and going out to little events and we're going to go hiking on Friday because I really want to manifest and have these real relationships. For me, they feel more fulfilling than just having internet relationships with my friends. Even if I start connecting with someone online, I do want the next step to be, let's get lunch instead of becoming just internet friends. Think that's the thing that happens a lot now is you'll meet someone online or start following someone and maybe you guys start communicating. Before you know it, you've known this person via Twitter for five years, but never met in real life. And then it's weird when you do meet because nobody made the effort to meet. You just happen to be standing in front of each other like, wow, that's you. So I think when you take that leap of faith and it's like, let's go have real interaction. It means something. Effort It's even that's like, you're willing to put yourself out there in an uncomfortable way. And it can even feel like that with our friendships we've had forever. It can feel like, oh man, I have to put myself out there to meet in person. But I just think it's important. Without my real life friendships, I would not have made it through the toughest points in my life. Like, yeah, expressing your grievances and your heartache to the internet is one thing. But to me, there's nothing like a real physical person who knows you, who actually knows you to help you get through

[22:42]Zibby Owens: whatever it is you're going through. It's true. There's the immediacy of putting it online, right? You put it out there and then like right away someone responds and you're right, it's hard to connect. I mean, even for the we're all everyone's so busy, right? We're just all so busy. So So even when you have like I every so often, I'm like, oh, I have twenty minutes while I walk from here to there. I'll call some friends. And of course, like nobody picks

[23:05]Abbott Elementary: know. That's the hard part too. But you know, I think it's important that you try and you know, they see your missed call.

[23:12]Zibby Owens: I know I'm like, do I leave a voicemail? Does anyone even listen to voicemails? My husband's like, no one plays voicemails. Why do you say it's me? I'm calling like, he's like, that's such a waste. Do you have anything to say? Otherwise just hang up. They'll see it. I'm like,

[23:25]Abbott Elementary: guess he's right. That's what I do. Don't leave voicemails. My voicemail box is full for the past like eight years. I see the mess go. No, but that makes a difference. And you said something, the immediacy of the internet, like sometimes I watch people or even I have posted something on the internet And it's the immediacy of the, like I'll say, Oh man, having a rough day. And it's the immediacy of the, Oh no, girl, like tell those haters. It's like, Woah, woah, woah. It's just, you don't know, thank you. That's so sweet and I appreciate it. But in the grand scheme of things, the people on the internet don't know what's going on in my day, you know? And that's just how the way like the internet works, but it's just not real. I don't know what to say. No, I know. You're right. You're right. I feel like this book makes me sound like an old cranky person sometimes. I'm like, No, I like think the

[24:16]Zibby Owens: really important thing to remember is that is one type of sort of, my kids would say like filling your bucket, right? Like that feels a part of the bucket, right? But not the whole thing, right? And there's a time and a place for that. And sometimes it's okay and you can get that little jolt that maybe you need so you can get out of bed to call your friend. But it is a tool in the arsenal of sort of self care in a way. Anyway, I think that's great, especially for younger kids to remember as they like for us, I mean, I'm much older than you, but like this is a new

[24:50]Abbott Elementary: world, right? They're growing up like this. So anyway. No, but that's a huge part of why I even talked about things like that because I really want this book to like get in the hands of younger people. I just, I'm sure people in my generation will read and enjoy it. But when I was younger, books like this helped me move through the world and with them being in the digital sharing age into me not having many books like this, just my opinion. I did search

[25:22]Zibby Owens: around out there. I just hope that younger people find this kind of a book and enjoy it. I'm sure they will. I'm sure you'll find a way to market it brilliantly per usual, you know, on with your I mean, because the way you describe your career and, like, from the Apple Store to, like, what, Hulu or wherever your show, ABC or whatever, you know, like the trajectory of how you did that. Cause I think people are often curious, right? Like it must have been so easy or it's like from one day to the next, it's like I had this small break and I took that opportunity. I mean, that's really what life comes down to, right? It's like putting yourself out there enough that like one of the times when you do, it lands in the right place, right? It's like going fishing or something. If you're not on the boat throwing the line out, no one's ever gonna I mean, that's so stupid, but Yeah. No. That's that was not stupid. That was very that was a great analogy. Okay.

[26:17]Abbott Elementary: Thanks. Alright. Fine. You can write a few books in your day, Zivvy.

[26:21]Zibby Owens: I am writing a book. Yeah. Well, anyway, I think you sort of did a show not tell of that as well. Yeah. And how is it now? Like, because now I feel like maybe in a creepy way invested in your life. I mean, like so like this part of your life now where you have this book coming out and everything, how does this feel in the context everything else that you've sort of done from a career perspective?

[26:47]Abbott Elementary: Yeah, how does it feel? You know, even talking to people like you makes me feel good. But I think I feel a certain sense of freedom and at the same time anxiety about it. I'm like, you know, what's in the book that people aren't gonna like? That's just a natural feeling because I felt I was as vulnerable as I could be while maintaining, you know, some privacy. And when it comes to a book and you're writing so many words, it's like there's going be something in here that someone doesn't like and that's just the way it is. And I want to be ready for that and accept that, but also know that that doesn't mean the book isn't good. It's just, it's a long, it's three twenty pages. It'd be crazy if someone didn't find anything they didn't like that. That'd be nuts. So I think that that's a worry I have. But the idea of doing a book, it's done and now it's going out into the world, there is such freedom in that. There's nothing I can do now. But hope that people enjoy it. That hearing people like you, also like, I'm not gonna lie, I've gone on Goodreads and read some reviews. Like, it is so wild to see people enjoying the book the way you intended for them to enjoy it. That is like, I don't know what to say. Mean, you've been doing Into Books for a long time. It's just like, wow, not only are they enjoying it, but enjoying it how I envisioned them enjoying it when I was writing it. I don't know. It's just something so special about that. That's different as opposed to like being in a show or a film or something like that. And maybe this is the first big thing that I've gotten to create that's going out into the world, because I've had my own internet series or internet videos and stuff. Yeah, like people enjoy those. Once again, it's the immediacy of the internet. So it's that instant dopamine hit, not only to the audience, but to me as a creator. But with something like a book, it's like someone is sitting there and reading these chapters and still comes out on the other side saying, wow, I so enjoyed this. I love that people or what I'm hearing often is that people feel like they're on a journey with me and that it feels like friendship because that is really important to me. It was one of the main things I wanted to do with the book. Didn't want to be preachy. I wanted to be me who is not perfect and a friend and give that out into the world. So I'm happy people are feeling that. I am at the point currently where I'm like, I don't know if I'll ever do this again. I can't believe people are like, I can't wait to write my next book. I'm like, what? This is the craziest thing I've ever done without a doubt. The hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Was hard. Shout out to my publisher and shout out to my book editor because I don't know, she was on my ass because I had to tell. Also with this book, my life was changing so much while I was writing it and because I did want to keep it so current, that made it harder. I wasn't just writing about my past, I was writing about my present. And when your present is constantly evolving, it's hard to I had to keep doing check ins with myself, making sure I knew how I felt and how I And I think most people don't do that till later. At 31, you get to go back to 27 and be like, Oh man, I was dumb. But I was had to do constant check ins with myself. How are you feeling? Because you're trying to put it on the page. So what do you really think? And what are you really comfortable with the world knowing right now? So yeah, I don't know. I'm happy that part's over.

[30:35]Zibby Owens: The biggest mindfulness exercise you will ever go through in your life. Oh my gosh.

[30:40]Abbott Elementary: I described it to a friend as it felt like being your own therapist. Like in that's hard. Yeah.

[30:49]Zibby Owens: That's hard. Well, honestly, and I'm not just saying this, like you did a great job and I read a ton of books and every book has their own strengths and everything but you did a really great job of getting the reader invested in you and rooting for you and making them think. So I don't know. Well done. Okay. Last question. You have any advice for aspiring authors now that you've gone through this slog?

[31:13]Abbott Elementary: You know, well, of course, depends on what people wanna do, you know, what they wanna make. But I just feel like aspiring authors should think about the younger generation. I just think they need nourishment. I think, we're often trying to reach out to our peers and like, I mean, look, for me, are you a millennial as well? No. Okay. Well, my generation, I just feel like we do a lot of talking to self and that's great, whatever, that's what we do. But I do think the younger generation could use some nourishment. So I just think it's really beneficial for us to start trying to talk to them because it's needed. And I know how important books were to me from people from the previous generation. I just think it's really important. And I've read a lot of stuff recently from people in my age group where I'm like, I don't need this lesson. I'm fine. I just want us to keep people younger than us in mind because it's helpful. Books are blueprints, especially like essay books are blueprints for a lot of the people younger than us. I try to think about that and what books did for me. I think books were the difference whether or not I was going to stay in Philadelphia or go pursue comedy, go pursue my field or whatever. It was more that than anything. It wasn't like me watching TV or me watching movies or watching documentaries. It was books like Mindy Kaling's and Tina Fey's where I was like, look at these documented things or even like Amy Sedaris's book, which like was those things are helped me to feel like I had a friend who had done it. And I think that's what's important. So that would be my number one piece of advice. And then my other piece of advice is to, and we'll see how this works out for me. So maybe they don't take this advice, I think being as vulnerable as possible and really checking in with your own self. Sometimes I do read books and it's like, who are you talking to? Who are you? Sometimes I'll read a book and I'm like, I don't know, I didn't come here to be taught. I just wanted to read a book. I don't need the lessons all the time. So I think it's cool to be as vulnerable as you can and to admit, I think at the beginning of the book, I don't know everything. I know some things, but I don't know everything.

[33:45]Zibby Owens: And then kind of work from there. I love that. I mean, that's it. That's just authentic and real and awesome. And PS, my dad is from Philadelphia and we used to get tasty cakes and I loved that you put that in the book too. That is like the required breakfast. Made me Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Alright. Well, so much. I didn't even get to discuss your cousin and all this stuff. Anyway Yeah. That's it. Thanks for the book. I'm not even in your target audience. I'm like, I'm 44 years old. I'm not a millennial, but that was the nicest thing anyone said to me all day. So even asking. And if I were you, I would just don't worry about what people don't like because you're right. Whatever people have their own issues, but that reflects more about them than it does about you. And just go and celebrate the accomplishment and just like

[34:29]Abbott Elementary: keep on keeping on. Well, thank you. So that wow. Thank you. This was nice. I knew this would be a good podcast. I did. I knew it.

[34:37]Zibby Owens: Okay. I'm so glad. Alright. Well, have a great day and really wishing you all the best of luck. Thank you so much. Have a good one. Alright. Enjoy. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social at Zippy Owens and at Zippy Readers.