Cathy Heller, ABUNDANT EVER AFTER: Tools for Creating a Life of Prosperity and Ease
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[0:42]Kathy Heller is the author of Abundant Ever After, tools for creating a life of prosperity and ease.
[0:49]Kathy is a dynamic, transformational coach, spiritual guide, meditation teacher, and inspirational speaker dedicated to helping individuals find to use joy and film in their lives.
[0:58]As the host of the Abundant Ever After podcast, an author of Don't Keep Your Day Job had to turn your passion into your career, and now, Abundant Ever After, Kathy inspires our audience to pursue their dreams and live authentically.
[1:11]Kathy has transformed the lives of hundreds of thousands through her teachings.
[1:14]Her work encompasses meditation, Jewish mysticism, and career strategies, empowering individuals to expand their potential and make a positive impact on the world.
[1:23]Proud mother to three daughters and four Persian cats. Kathy embodies a beautiful balance of creativity, family, and purpose.
[1:30]Kathy is one of the featured authors at our upcoming Montecito Santa Barbara Retreat.
[1:35]We'll be there February 21st to 23rd, and she is one of the authors who will be there joining us for all fun things, and you should definitely sign up on ZibiMedia.com.
[1:46]Welcome, Kathy. Thank you so much for coming on mom's turn of time to read books to discuss Abundant Ever After, tools for creating a life of prosperity and ease congrats.
[1:56]I'm so honored to be here. You are so lovable, but you're all so smart, and that's a really cool combination, and I told my husband I was like, because it's 730 morning time.
[2:11]I was like, this is the interview I want. I care about this more than anything, because you live your life with so much integrity, and you bring just so much good to the world. So yeah, I'm so happy to be here.
[2:23]Oh my gosh, thank you, and I'm sorry it's early there. We're up. I'm just saying it's like morning time. I'm like, none of this.
[2:30]Everything over snack bags, not tonight. You know, it's so funny, because I was pouring over every word of this book, and I was thinking to myself, wait, I think I do some of these things, but I've never articulated that I do them.
[2:44]Sort of like putting out the positive vibes and manifesting and the thinking about it, and I don't know, there's so much in here that I was like, wait, is this something?
[2:54]And how has Kathy been able to articulate that these are all the things when like some of this is almost like from the subconscious in a way?
[3:03]Anyway, let me back up and why don't you tell listeners a little more about the book?
[3:07]I cannot believe that you read any of it, because you get so many books that that's like, Diana, like I'm done. We're good.
[3:17]So here's the thing about manifestation is that I was never into that. Like that didn't speak to me. My parents got divorced, and I had like just a lot of unpleasant things going on in high school.
[3:30]So I grew up in Florida, I went to Florida State, and I went as a theater major initially, and then I was like, I really need to know more about why we're in the world, like this doesn't speak to me.
[3:42]And it's interesting because I was not connected to my Judaism at all, like all I knew about Judaism was Mel Brooks and Mox and Meghals, which is not that.
[3:50]I mean, those are two cool things.
[3:52]So I didn't like Lox and Meghals then, but you know, and there was an anti-Semitic incident actually that happened to me in my freshman year of college.
[3:59]I came home to my dorm room and there was a swastika on my door, and I had brought this like cabbage patch kid and like as like a token of my childhood that was like on my dorm room bed.
[4:09]And they put numbers on its arm and they put a swastika on its head and like hung it from the ceiling fan and then wrote on my mirror like dirty Jew or something like that.
[4:20]I was so right out of school ties. I don't even know if that movie had been made yet. Maybe it was made anyway.
[4:25]I couldn't believe they knew I was Jewish because I didn't know that I didn't know much about being Jewish.
[4:33]And I went to the, you know, the RA on the floor and he was helpful except nothing happened to those two boys. We found out who did it.
[4:41]But that actually propelled me to want to know more about Judaism.
[4:45]I can't believe how sick that is by the way. Can we just pause? It's like I would have had a heart attack that I walked into my dorm room and saw that.
[4:52]That's ridiculous.
[4:54]It's not good. Yeah, it was very scary.
[4:57]And I went to school in Tallahassee, Florida where funny enough living those in school in Florida, you'd think there's not a ton of Jews on campus.
[5:05]And I had wanted to go to BU and because of my parents divorce, I couldn't pay for private school.
[5:10]I wound up being a blessing because I said forget it. I'm going to just study who the heck am I and why are we all on the planet.
[5:17]So I actually became a religion major.
[5:19]And when I graduated college, I wrote this paper comparing Moses and the Buddha.
[5:24]And they both grew up in a palace and then they in that and eventually they left sort of the materialism world.
[5:31]And they went into the wilderness and then they found their way to what they both created.
[5:35]The rhombum. My mommy says that Judaism is a middle path. And the Buddha caused it a middle path.
[5:40]In any case, I was so inspired by that, but I knew enough to know I knew nothing.
[5:45]I had read like Abraham Joshua Hashel in college.
[5:48]And I applied to rabbinical school at JTS.
[5:52]And a friend of mine said, why don't you like defer it for a little while and go to Israel.
[5:57]And it's so funny that I thought about going to rabbinical school.
[6:00]And really at that point, I was so into it. And my friends that were into law went to law school, but I didn't know anything yet.
[6:07]I was like, I've never been to is maybe I should go. So I go on this trip. I thought I was going for three weeks and then go to school.
[6:14]I go.
[6:15]And the last day of the trip, I walk into this class and it's like a rabbi who is like a jubu and a psychologist also he passed away.
[6:23]His name was Rabbi David Zeller. And he was wearing like cute sandals, Birkenstocks and like scruffy beard and I liked him.
[6:30]And he taught me my first piece of Torah and he said the very first time a word is used in the Torah, we know what it means.
[6:37]And he says, does anyone know the first time the word Shabbat is used and I'm like, no, like I'm like clean slate pretty much.
[6:44]And he said it's when Abraham is meditating.
[6:47]And it says in Abraham sat at the foot of the tent and God appeared and he said, but it doesn't say sat the way we would say that like you're sitting down.
[6:55]It's using the word for meditation.
[6:57]So Shabbat is a 24 hour meditation.
[7:00]And when we sit in that place of stillness, God appears.
[7:04]Well, that like completely blew my mind. Right.
[7:07]That divine connection is always available when we arrive at our own door.
[7:12]And then I was like really intrigued and I stayed in Israel.
[7:16]And I wound up meeting Rabbi Aaron and I wound up learning with him and living in the old city, which was, it was an unbelievable experience.
[7:24]It was also during the Antifada, 2001, 2000, 2003, which was for a little girl from Boker to on Florida.
[7:30]That really widened my perspective on the world and gave me a lot of depth, which was in the end like it served to help me become who I am.
[7:40]But one day, Rabbi Aaron said, have you heard about the law of attraction because everyone's talking about it.
[7:46]And I want to give you my thoughts on that.
[7:49]And I'm like, yeah, I think people are like, the secret was like a big deal, but I had not seen that yet.
[7:54]And he said, you know, in Judaism, we would say the law of attraction is really the law of reception.
[8:00]And I said, what does that mean?
[8:02]And he said, well, the word Kabbalah comes in the word the Kabbalah, which means to receive.
[8:07]And he said, if you had a radio and you put it on a desk next to you, and you turned it on, what would happen?
[8:14]I'm like, you'd hear something, music, static, you know, I am radio station, talk show.
[8:20]And he said, yeah, but before you turned on the radio, where was the music?
[8:25]And I had never asked that question. I thought that was like such an incredible question.
[8:29]And he said, the answer is it's hidden in plain sight.
[8:31]So what needs to happen is you, you have a receiver that can actually tune to the frequency of something that you couldn't perceive because you weren't yet capable tuning and you didn't have the frequency to hear that.
[8:45]But he said, but when you go further, you get to decide what song you're hearing because you could listen to 97.3 Y 100, you know, Z 100 and Florida was Y 100.
[8:56]And he goes and they're all in the same dial and they're completely different.
[9:00]So he said, our job is to find the love song on the radio because it's in escrow because the only song God gives the world is a love song.
[9:12]And if you haven't landed on it yet, you haven't opened your reception wide enough to get that signal and get the best reception.
[9:21]And then I realize we can live in fight or flight or we can live in our heart and perceive the fullness of our experience all the time.
[9:32]And then we're already manifesting because we're, you know, I say to people and I say this in the book like, what do you want to create in your life and they're like, you know, a better relationship more money in nice house and I say, all of that is awesome.
[9:45]It is.
[9:47]But you have way bigger dreams than that.
[9:50]What you really want is like deep inner peace.
[9:54]You want to be in flow state.
[9:56]You want to have like creativity like bursting through you.
[10:00]You want to feel connected to everything that is.
[10:03]You want a mystical experience.
[10:05]And they're like, yeah, I'll have some of that, right?
[10:09]That is immediate.
[10:11]Like that feeling is always available.
[10:15]And when we know that, we tune to that,
[10:18]then it is truly uncanny how things happen
[10:22]in our like 3D experience.
[10:23]Like the opportunity or you meet a cool person
[10:27]or you've got a good job opportunity.
[10:29]And the money and all of that comes
[10:31]because wholeness is already yours.
[10:36]You're not coming into your life in a place of lack.
[10:39]And so long story short, I'll just end with this.
[10:41]I left Israel and I moved to Los Angeles
[10:44]and I started studying mindfulness at UCLA
[10:46]because I had created this whole program
[10:49]to really understand the brain and body.
[10:50]And at first, meditation was extremely difficult.
[10:53]And then I started to understand
[10:55]how we can witness what's happening for us
[10:58]and witness our mind rather than trying to turn it off.
[11:01]And when I put all of that together,
[11:04]I did wind up quote unquote manifesting
[11:07]just the most incredible moments strung together
[11:10]which became my life.
[11:12]Oh my gosh.
[11:13]I love the frequency analogy.
[11:14]I love your toaster.
[11:15]How your husband got you a complicated toaster.
[11:19]And it doesn't work till you plug it in.
[11:21]It's the same thing.
[11:22]It's like all the tools are there.
[11:24]Even the most advanced tools.
[11:25]You just have to like figure out how to hook it up.
[11:28]Yeah. And we've been given this incredible technology
[11:32]inside us.
[11:33]I do this podcast just like you have your beautiful podcast.
[11:36]It's been such an extraordinary gateway for me
[11:38]to learn so much.
[11:41]It's just such a humbling cool experience.
[11:44]And Dan Butner has become a friend of mine
[11:46]and he created this sort of look at the blue zones
[11:49]that was really helpful for all of us.
[11:52]And these folks, like they now know
[11:54]that what's letting them live so long and live so well,
[11:59]they have less cortisol going on in their body.
[12:02]Cortisol creates inflammation.
[12:03]Cortisol inflammation is responsible
[12:06]for every kind of disease and why that is
[12:10]because they've tapped into the technology
[12:12]which is how we can work with our nervous system
[12:17]to really find equanimity.
[12:20]And like that is such a mic drop
[12:23]to understand like the toaster with the plug.
[12:26]It's inside of you.
[12:28]But when we spend our time in the blizzard of our mind,
[12:33]the toaster stays unplugged.
[12:35]So you have this ability to distill
[12:39]like what is going on with everybody right away,
[12:42]which before we even started recording in one sentence,
[12:44]you like made me feel better.
[12:47]I get a flipping comment.
[12:48]Like you do this with your coaching.
[12:51]You do this with on your podcast.
[12:53]You do this like all the time and can help anybody
[12:56]sort of see through the mess they can't see through themselves,
[12:58]which is a gift really.
[13:00]And in addition to all the other things,
[13:03]like the conversation and ability to make money
[13:05]and like all these things that you do,
[13:07]like when did that piece of things tap into you?
[13:10]It's one thing to be aware of our own thoughts
[13:12]and sit there and say, oh, look,
[13:13]I can see my thoughts passing.
[13:15]And now I get meditation this and that.
[13:16]But it's another to be like, okay, here are the questions
[13:19]I need to ask you right now so you understand.
[13:23]That's really unbelievably generous.
[13:26]It's really trying to fully receive how kind that is.
[13:30]You know, I heard someone once say that the work
[13:33]we do in this world,
[13:35]we ultimately we do it for our mothers,
[13:38]which I thought was really fascinating.
[13:40]Like who we become on some level is what we give back
[13:45]or what we've learned or what's sort of what comes out
[13:48]of that fertilizer.
[13:50]And my mom has a lot of magic to her
[13:54]and also struggles with really intense depression
[14:00]and actually tried to go to suicide twice
[14:03]when I was growing up.
[14:04]And that was like, I remember that evening
[14:06]and like ambulances and then there was always
[14:09]like a low grade just intensity.
[14:13]And she, that song, Vincent, you know,
[14:17]I could have told you this world wasn't made for someone.
[14:20]Beautiful as you and mom is like that.
[14:22]Oh, she's really, really awake too.
[14:27]And to the end, she's really creative.
[14:30]And her mind, she has ADHD, her mind doesn't stop.
[14:34]And she lives inside this like prison of her mind
[14:37]and it's debilitating and awful and lonely and isolating.
[14:42]And so since I was born,
[14:45]I've been her cheerleading section
[14:48]and it's literally why I was hell bent on finding purpose.
[14:56]My parents had a horrible marriage.
[14:58]They both have tremendous like issues.
[15:00]My dad has passed away.
[15:02]But I mean, there was just so much volatility
[15:07]and going on in my home.
[15:09]So I think I was being sort of my life experience was like,
[15:14]a dojo, you know, and finding Judaism and Jewish mysticism
[15:20]and mindfulness and then finding out
[15:22]that all these incredible mindfulness teachers
[15:25]that I love like John Kabatz.
[15:26]And they're also all Jews, which is just so uncanny.
[15:30]Like Ram Das is Jewish.
[15:33]Like I feel there's something in the DNA that,
[15:38]I mean, how do you explain that?
[15:40]Like it's all Jewish people in this mindful Jewish,
[15:46]there's an overlap there, which is really interesting.
[15:49]So it's sort of a life assignment, I feel like.
[15:52]But my point is it didn't start when I started like reading books
[15:57]on like, you know, Wayne Dyer or whatever in college.
[16:00]It literally started in my living room,
[16:03]really observing deep unhappiness and deep unworthiness.
[16:07]And I think it all comes back to, you know,
[16:13]what I learned in Israel was that we are someone
[16:16]because we're some of the one that we're each a masterpiece
[16:20]because we're a piece of the master.
[16:22]Rabbi Aaron said, if God was the son,
[16:24]we'd each be a ray of that light, there is only oneness.
[16:28]That's the mic drop of Abraham.
[16:30]People say it, you know, Abraham believed in one God.
[16:34]Go further, he believe God is one.
[16:37]Shmeiss Rial means, Hashem is one, God is oneness.
[16:40]It's all part of the oneness, which is why Jews don't try
[16:45]to convert people because you're intrinsically connected
[16:48]to the oneness.
[16:50]That is so radically progressive and it's so expansive
[16:57]that we don't even have a lived familiarity
[17:01]with anything like that.
[17:03]But what it means is like every wave in the ocean
[17:05]is connected to itself.
[17:06]So why I say all this is because my mom struggle
[17:10]or any time we any of us struggle,
[17:13]it's this little I am, this little self.
[17:16]Because whenever we close our eyes, I often say,
[17:20]we see further with our eyes closed
[17:22]because we have insight.
[17:24]And then immediately we sense that there's something
[17:26]essential to us that's like who we really are,
[17:29]that's bigger than our name, our body.
[17:32]We wear nobody, no wear, no time.
[17:34]It's like this essence of us, which is why people love
[17:37]to meditate, they set down the somebody's suit.
[17:41]And we immediately feel this like endless capacity
[17:45]to feel love and also to receive love.
[17:48]There's like a humility because all that other stuff is ego.
[17:52]And so that once I started learning how to perceive that,
[17:57]that's the exit to suffering.
[18:00]That's it.
[18:02]I love how you connect this all at the end
[18:04]with this conversation with your daughter
[18:06]when she says her Roblox avatar is actually like life
[18:11]and the soul and how her name, like me zippy,
[18:15]that's my avatar but my soul is something different.
[18:18]And like I can change anything about the outside
[18:20]but what's lasting and the most important thing is,
[18:23]I mean, it's a much better way to say
[18:26]it's what's on the inside the counts, right?
[18:28]But that's really it, like who are we really
[18:30]and what energy and what are we bringing to the world?
[18:33]And I just loved that visual of like her on Roblox,
[18:36]you know, making her own like someone can't even
[18:39]that she's shared that Deepak Chopra said to me,
[18:42]he goes, say, I am Cathy Heller.
[18:45]So I say, you go say it again.
[18:47]Okay, he goes, now just say, I am Cathy.
[18:50]So I say it, he goes, did that feel different?
[18:52]I go, it does.
[18:53]It's like lighter because everything we say has like
[18:57]a story, right?
[18:59]And he says, just say, I am.
[19:01]He goes, does that feel different?
[19:03]And I started to cry.
[19:04]He goes, there you are.
[19:06]That's it, that's it.
[19:09]And the wholeness we're thinking we're going to find
[19:14]in more followers or more approval or more money.
[19:20]It so pales in comparison to the fulfillment
[19:24]of like sitting arriving at your own door
[19:28]like finding that part of you.
[19:32]And that part of you is, it's got this wisdom.
[19:36]It's got this access to wellbeing.
[19:39]It's like the 80 year old version of you.
[19:42]You know, it's fascinating because if you went outside
[19:45]of like the solar system, I mean, even if you go before
[19:49]that, like I say to people like a day on earth
[19:52]is 24 hours.
[19:54]Like how long is a day on Jupiter?
[19:56]They're like, I don't know.
[19:57]I'm like nine hours, 58 minutes.
[20:00]by because of the relationship to the rotation of the sun.
[20:03]What happens when you leave the solar system,
[20:06]time evaporates completely.
[20:08]So the real reality of it all is like the reality
[20:13]of the universe is beyond time.
[20:16]It's timeless, doesn't have time.
[20:18]So why I love that is because God is beyond time,
[20:24]which means that the past, present and future
[20:26]for God are all happening now, which means you can find
[20:30]that part of you.
[20:32]The 80-year-old was sim inside of you.
[20:34]You can call that in now.
[20:36]The five-year-old to you were, you could feel her.
[20:39]You can call her in now.
[20:41]And in that place of the real now, that's
[20:44]where you get all your realism.
[20:48]So when you meditate, for me, it's like I'm
[20:52]trying to strip away this meat suit and find the part
[20:55]of me that has the drone view of my experience.
[21:00]And I say to people, listen, I know meditation can be intimidating.
[21:05]I say, why don't you try 90 seconds?
[21:07]The same way that you select what you want to wear.
[21:10]Select how you want to feel every day.
[21:12]And then close your eyes and say, what would ease feel it
[21:16]in your body, what would joy feel like?
[21:18]And all of a sudden, you realize, why would you
[21:20]wait for something good to happen to make you feel that way?
[21:24]When you can feel that way right now.
[21:27]And then you start to memorize how do you get to just live
[21:31]feeling what you choose to feel?
[21:33]Or do you focus your attention?
[21:35]And that's when you literally start manifesting everything.
[21:39]I'm curious in the universe without time and all of that
[21:43]and being so tapped into that.
[21:45]How, what is your thought?
[21:47]What are your thoughts about death?
[21:49]And what happens after our bodies die?
[21:53]You know, it's so interesting because Judaism 100%
[21:57]100% believes that there is so much more
[22:01]that happens after, but it doesn't focus on it a lot.
[22:04]Because we say, La Chaim, we're so into this world.
[22:09]It's really interesting.
[22:11]We're so into this world.
[22:12]So many other practices are about trying to get rid of this,
[22:18]you know, get out, you know, the whole idea of Buddhism is like you get
[22:21]out of the continuation of coming back here.
[22:24]So you can be free of this world.
[22:25]We actually believe our job is to find the sparks of God
[22:29]in everything that is in this world.
[22:31]So that's really, I just want to say interesting, but I do know
[22:35]like from our tradition that we definitely believe that,
[22:39]you know, obviously first of all, first of all,
[22:41]months, there's like a hush when an effort, the soul is like
[22:45]really looking at itself.
[22:47]And we don't have quote unquote how.
[22:50]We believe that just having a really look at yourself
[22:53]and a cush phone when you get a check at the end of dinner and
[22:57]Israel is called a cush phone.
[22:58]It's an accounting.
[22:59]So it's really looking at your life, right?
[23:02]Which is interesting that it's been saying that in the
[23:04]Talmud for thousands of years because now when people talk about
[23:07]near death experience, they say they have like a
[23:09]they watch the movie of their life.
[23:11]That's like in Torah, right?
[23:13]And we believe that's either really
[23:15]like a lovely to watch or it's painful to watch
[23:20]because we see what we would have chosen instead.
[23:23]So we don't need help because it's a recognition.
[23:27]It's sobering to just look back at our self and what was
[23:31]already an escrow for us that we didn't allow our self to receive
[23:35]because we chose from resistance or from fear rather than
[23:39]from what's really expansive, the most expansive possibility.
[23:43]And then after that 12 months, I believe the soul kind of
[23:47]has whatever Aliyah, whatever like elevation.
[23:51]It has based on the life that it lives.
[23:54]And we believe like in Messianic times like
[23:57]literally people will be back in their bodies.
[24:01]And we don't say more than that.
[24:03]Like that's all it says.
[24:05]Like for as many track dates have been written about
[24:08]like where to stand when you light a Hanakiya.
[24:11]There's like five words said about that because that's how
[24:13]focused we are on this world.
[24:17]Well, in your book and you have like so much to say,
[24:21]I could take this in like a thousand directions.
[24:23]But you do offer through many of the people that you've interviewed.
[24:27]And by the way, I was like, oh, I should like do something like this
[24:31]where I include wisdom from everybody.
[24:33]I interviewed like this is so smart.
[24:36]I was thinking like I should do a quote book or whatever.
[24:38]But like you wove it all in.
[24:39]And I'm like, oh my god.
[24:40]I feel like you just did that in a different way
[24:43]by like taking this beautiful wisdom each individual
[24:46]and putting it all together in a book.
[24:48]Well, I don't know.
[24:49]You did it.
[24:50]You're like, can I just do?
[24:52]You can also do it through your own narrative.
[24:55]Yeah, it's a little different.
[24:58]But you do give readers some specifics on like how to help themselves.
[25:03]Like a road map.
[25:04]And it's in the book with all the exercises.
[25:06]But it's also obviously from listening to you
[25:09]and getting involved in everything you have to offer.
[25:11]When you think of people getting out of their own way,
[25:14]which is sort of something that you're trying to get people to do, right?
[25:17]To plug in to do all these things.
[25:19]If there's something they can take away from this conversation
[25:21]to make like this afternoon better or tonight or something,
[25:25]how can they plug in today to make today a little better?
[25:28]Like what comes up?
[25:29]I mean, at this point, I'm sure you have this too.
[25:33]I probably approximately have talked to thousands of people
[25:37]because I've been doing the show for so long
[25:39]and what have you through events and emails.
[25:42]And there's like two lives that everyone's telling them.
[25:45]So I can see them.
[25:47]And the two lives are either I'm not enough.
[25:50]That's a big one.
[25:52]Or this thing I want is not possible.
[25:56]So the first thing to know is that your mind lies to you all the time.
[26:01]And we get to choose, right, what we think.
[26:07]And so the only fake news there is is inside your head.
[26:11]And then I want to just address the I'm not enough one
[26:14]because when I first met Rabbi Aaron,
[26:16]I was telling him something and he told me how much he loved me
[26:20]and I didn't understand that because I wasn't
[26:24]what I thought would make his approval.
[26:26]Like I wasn't super religious and wearing long skirts and whatever it was.
[26:31]And I said that to him.
[26:32]I'm like, but don't you deep down really hope
[26:36]like that I'm going to do this and that and live this life like you do?
[26:40]And he said no.
[26:41]And he said, this is really an important point.
[26:43]He said love has not earned love as a gift.
[26:49]And the creative universe doesn't need you to do anything to be loved.
[26:56]You are loved because he's like, if God was a tree in your branch of that tree,
[27:01]how do you not love that tree?
[27:03]So to really deeply understand that in your household,
[27:08]as much as your parents did their best and they all do the best that they can,
[27:12]there might have been some way in which if you got straight A's, you were loved.
[27:17]If you were skinny, you got loved.
[27:18]Like there's a way in which we start to perceive that.
[27:22]And when I hear so many people not feeling enough,
[27:26]I'm like, wow, you really need like more experiences of like unconditional love.
[27:32]Love is by definition for no reason.
[27:34]And so we need to learn to like be our best friend.
[27:38]And so I often say like get a picture of your five year old self,
[27:41]but it near you and look at how easy it is to love her.
[27:46]And she's had enough, she had enough of being criticized.
[27:49]And she had so much joy in her.
[27:53]But I think the other piece of this is Julia Cameron.
[27:58]She wrote this book called The Artist Way.
[27:59]And I've become friendly with her.
[28:01]And she said a lot of people don't allow them self to live their life on their terms
[28:05]because what if they don't make it perfect, whatever the thing they want to attempt.
[28:12]If you look at a nursery school classroom, every kid is playing
[28:16]because they're willing to be messy.
[28:18]So I would say like, what would bring you joy even if it doesn't have an ROI?
[28:24]Like could you do one thing in your day just because it feels
[28:29]like it brings you back into a state of playfulness.
[28:32]And then good news as the data shows when you do that you're more productive at anything else.
[28:36]But there's so many things I could say, but those are just two little things.
[28:40]That's perfect.
[28:43]Somehow our time is already up.
[28:46]Obviously we could keep this going.
[28:48]I hope I get to hang out with you in person and whatever we should get together.
[28:53]One or you are you ever in LA sometimes?
[28:55]Yeah, I'm there a lot.
[28:56]I mean, you know, so I'll we'll take this offline.
[28:59]And I'm going to have you on my show.
[29:01]Oh, thank you.
[29:03]Oh, I didn't know that would be lovely.
[29:04]Sure.
[29:05]Summit.
[29:05]Thank you for having the courage to be you, especially.
[29:10]Thank you.
[29:11]Don't know all the people behind you that feel so represented and seen by your love and integrity.
[29:20]Thank you.
[29:21]Thank you.
[29:22]Well, thank you.
[29:22]And thank you for the long time.
[29:25]Okay.
[29:25]Yeah, it was great.
[29:26]I really hope to be continued.
[29:27]Okay, to be continued.
[29:29]Thank you, Kathy.
[29:29]Okay, bye.
[29:30]Thanks for listening to momstone have time to read books.
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