Megan Tady, BLUEBIRD DAY: A Novel
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[0:42]Meghan Tady is the author of Bluebird Day, a novel. This is also a book published by my own publishing house, ZibiBooks.
[0:51]We are so excited because Meghan is also the author of Superbloom, which came out last year,
[0:57]and this is her second book with us, called Bluebird Day. It was already picked as a noteworthy book
[1:03]from the Washington Post, and has much more coming. Meghan Tady, a journalist and editor, is the author of Superbloom.
[1:10]She founded Word Lift, a communication consulting and copywriting firm. Originally from Nebraska,
[1:15]she now lives in New England with her husband and two children.
[1:18]Welcome, Meg, you're back on Momstone. I'm trying to read books. I'm so excited about your new book, Bluebird Day. Congratulations, Yay.
[1:27]Thank you, Zibi. It's so great to be here again.
[1:29]I am loving watching your career progress, and I know we're publishing your book,
[1:34]but as a sort of caring outsider too, as a reader, it's just so fun to see you develop in your
[1:43]characters come to life and all of that. I am taking a lab joy in this.
[1:47]Well, it's all... I credit you, so thank you so much for giving me another opportunity. It's been
[1:53]amazing. If it wasn't me, it would have been someone else, so I'm just glad to be long for the ride.
[1:59]You tell listeners a little bit about Bluebird Day, and first, like, where this idea came from?
[2:04]Sure. So Bluebird Day is about Claudine and Wiley pots who are estranged mother and daughters,
[2:10]and they used to be ski racers. They've been estranged for many years. Claudine was an Olympian,
[2:17]and Wiley was bred to be an Olympian, but she did not want to do the sport. She quit to go to
[2:22]art school. It caused a rift, and they haven't been speaking, and now they're stuck in this
[2:28]Swiss village with an avalanche socks in their town, and the only place to stay is a youth
[2:33]hostile with bunk beds. Butine has a secret she wants to keep buried, Wiley wants to know more
[2:39]about her mom and her past, and it's all coming to light. And this story, in 2018, there was an
[2:46]actual avalanche that sucked in the town of Zermatt, Switzerland, and I remember seeing it,
[2:51]you know, 13,000 tourists were stranded, and I just sort of filed that away because I was like,
[2:56]that is such a fascinating thing to have happened to all these people. What was it like to be on
[3:01]vacation there? How did people's trips change? What if there was snowplace to stay? And if you
[3:08]were in charge there, how were you notifying everyone that they were stuck for all this time?
[3:13]So I sort of filed that away. And when it came time to write this book again, I really was like,
[3:20]okay, this Switzerland piece is going to be the piece that forces this mom and daughter together,
[3:26]and this sort of closed room scenario, and pushes them back together, and you know, a lot of
[3:32]hijinks ensue, and they also begin to get to know each other again, which felt really lovely.
[3:38]Oh, I love that. It is sort of a nightmare, thinking that the place you go for vacation could
[3:44]ultimately be like the worst thing that's ever happened. I think about that too, and ever I read
[3:48]stories like that, like tsunami, and like that horrible and Thailand, and like, you know, I'm always
[3:54]maybe we shouldn't go there. Well, maybe we should cancel that trip. Let's just stay home. Not
[3:58]the home is ever safer, but like it doesn't why add unnecessary risk.
[4:04]What's so funny? I ended up interviewing some people who were stuck there, and they had a blast.
[4:11]They, you know, they couldn't ski anymore, but everybody was safe, and the town turned it into
[4:17]this massive party, and people were getting to know other people from all over the world.
[4:22]They were all in it together. It wasn't what they like would have chosen, but in the end,
[4:27]they had an amazing experience, an amazing memory. So I didn't want to put them into like a tsunami
[4:35]danger, but you know, like, yeah, there were a lot of silver linings, I think, for the people that
[4:40]were there. It's like a snow day for everybody. Yes, but many days in a row. Many snow days, right,
[4:46]but like where you have to take time off of your regular life, and you might as well enjoy like
[4:51]exactly the youthful elements of all the snow and like the hot chocolate and all that.
[4:57]Right. As long as there's, you know, food. So I love that as a device for framing the story,
[5:02]but your story, of course, is about the relationships and how our relationships with family and
[5:08]friends and everyone can really evolve over time. Sometimes in ways that, you know, go together
[5:14]in parallel and some diverge and all of that. And the mother-daughter competitiveness is something
[5:20]that I don't feel like we read about as much. And I feel like while we went another way
[5:27]in part, like how do I compete with my mom? Like here, you know, let me just like reject this and
[5:32]tell me a little bit about that dynamic and how you structured that relationship and what about it,
[5:38]like drew you to it. I think right now there's such a spotlight on female athletes. You know,
[5:43]they've all been doing this amazing stuff for years, but right now there's a lot of spotlight on
[5:49]women who are doing amazing things in tennis and soccer and all these sports, Caitlin Clark,
[5:54]basketball. So I wanted to lean into female athletics and competitiveness and sort of mind what you do
[6:04]with that competitive streak when you're in your 40s and 50s and you're no longer, you know, the elite
[6:11]athlete. Where do you sink that energy? And I feel like I'm a competitive person. I grew up playing
[6:17]sports and, you know, put me in front of a board game. And I was like, you know, bring it. And I
[6:21]still sort of feel that way. So I wanted to give Claudia in the sense of competitiveness, but she
[6:26]doesn't know where to sink it. And then for Wiley, she's got before you go to Wiley. What sports did you
[6:33]play? Oh, I played soccer mostly. And I was like, wanted to play, you know, as far as I could take
[6:40]it. And I ended up getting injured and wasn't able to play anymore. So I could kind of tap into a
[6:45]a little bit of that grief that happens when you grow up playing something for years. I mean,
[6:50]I was so dedicated. And so what do you do with that? How do you change it? And there's a little bit
[6:57]of that grief both in Wiley and in class. And for Wiley, she's just got even more talent than her mom.
[7:05]And yet she doesn't feel that sense of drive and that sense of competitiveness. She kind of
[7:12]shrinks from it. And I wanted to look at for her, what do you do when you're really good at
[7:19]something, but you don't necessarily want to do it? And, you know, like, I have a girlfriend who's
[7:25]an amazing artist. And for years, I was like, you've got a, you need an agent and you need to
[7:31]be in galleries. And you need to, you know, like all this acclaim. And she was sort of like, I just
[7:37]creating art. I don't need to do it for any other reason. And I was sort of horrified by that.
[7:43]And yet I was also intrigued. You know, what, what do you do with something when you're really
[7:49]great at it, but you don't need this outside affirmation. And Wiley not only doesn't need it,
[7:56]but she then doesn't really want to do it. It starts to really scare her and causes anxiety in her.
[8:02]So she has to buck up against the vision that her mom has of her life and go the other way,
[8:08]which takes a lot of bravery for her. So I was then able to kind of pull those two threads and
[8:14]have them butt heads over the visions that they have for their own lives and for each other's
[8:19]lives. And that was a lot of fun material to play with. Wow. I know. I, the notion that you don't
[8:28]need positive affirmation is something I really need to digest. I like everything I do. I'm like,
[8:35]you know, tree falling in the woods. I'm like, no, if nobody saw this, and I can't tell like
[8:40]somebody, even my husband or something, like, didn't happen. Doesn't matter. It's really true.
[8:45]I feel the same way. And I feel like I've been doing a lot of searching around my own, you know,
[8:52]through this book, I've, I've read a lot about mental health and being an athlete, being an elite
[8:56]athlete, and then reflecting a lot on my own mental health of being an author. And they actually
[9:03]are quite similar, you know, what controlling what you can only control. And when the Olympics
[9:08]were happening, I was reading a lot about of athletes coming out and saying, you know, I'm
[9:13]protecting my mental health and here's how and sort of be like, okay, like I can take some tips
[9:17]from these, from these people who are able to sort of block out the noise and do what they
[9:23]love best. And then, you know, sort of like kind of this trance-like moment. And I'm still,
[9:29]I'm still learning. Wait, what is some of the advice? I need the advice to give it to you.
[9:33]I know. I do too. I mean, it's, yeah, I think it's like control what you can control. And, you know,
[9:39]like think about your, I don't want to say temper your expectations, but aren't you always
[9:47]stunned watching the Olympics knowing that someone who's like doing a running of the,
[9:52]a relay, there's at least three runners there that know they're not probably going to win. They're
[9:59]the last one.
[10:00]And yet they're still out there giving it their all.
[10:04]They've been training for this race, this one race,
[10:07]almost their entire lives.
[10:09]The odds are against them and they're still going for it.
[10:12]And I think as an author,
[10:15]I've definitely realized holy cow every Tuesday,
[10:19]there are dozens of books that are flooding out to readers.
[10:24]We're all sort of jockeying against each other.
[10:27]We like each other, but we're also like wanna break out.
[10:30]And it's rare for someone to break out
[10:33]and yet you're still trying your best.
[10:35]So how do you stay sane as you're doing that?
[10:39]I don't know if I even have all the answers,
[10:41]but I am on the quest to learn it
[10:43]and to like be better at it, you know?
[10:46]It is hard if you, I mean, that is such an interesting image
[10:49]thinking about the books coming out.
[10:51]I'm just like, you know, as if each book is done
[10:54]instead of skis, like heading down the mountain.
[10:56]How do you break out?
[10:57]It's true, it's almost impossible.
[10:59]But that desire, you have to hang onto that
[11:03]or you might not even get on the mountain to begin with.
[11:05]There has to be something in you
[11:07]that wants to go on the journey,
[11:09]even if you get injured or something happens
[11:11]or I remember watching the playoffs of the World Series
[11:15]has not just sports like nonstop.
[11:17]And it was like the bottom of the ninth or something.
[11:20]And the Mets were still like trying really hard.
[11:23]And like the even the announcer was like,
[11:25]oh, these Mets, you know, it's not looking good.
[11:26]They were down like whatever, a lot.
[11:28]And they were still like trying and getting, you know,
[11:32]it is like why give up, like because you can't give up
[11:35]because you have to try your best regardless of the outcome.
[11:38]Like sometimes you have a tougher competitor.
[11:40]And sometimes you, but all you can do is try your best.
[11:44]And that's and never like stop until the last second.
[11:47]So.
[11:49]And for Claudine, you know, she has the hard driving father
[11:52]who's really pushing her,
[11:53]but she also has this innate drive in her to be the best
[11:58]at anything she does.
[11:59]You know, she was sort of born that way.
[12:01]She's wired that way.
[12:02]And for Wiley, she doesn't.
[12:04]And ski racing, I was drawn to that sport in particular
[12:09]because it is one of the most dangerous sports you could do.
[12:12]It is just wild.
[12:13]You are going 90 miles an hour down, you know,
[12:17]you're like a rocket going down a slippery, icy mountain
[12:22]face.
[12:23]So if you don't love it and you're not driven by it,
[12:27]it's very impossible to want to do it.
[12:30]And so Wiley just cannot will herself to do the thing
[12:34]that Claudine did and wanted her to do, you know.
[12:38]Yep.
[12:39]You also have this other thread about through toxic relationships.
[12:43]And what do you do if you find yourself in a relationship
[12:47]where the person you're with is not always necessarily rooting
[12:50]for you for your own sake and wanting you to like self-actualize,
[12:53]but talk a little bit about that relationship
[12:56]and navigating it.
[12:58]Yeah, do you mean Wiley with her boyfriend Dan?
[13:01]Yes.
[13:02]So Wiley starts off with a boyfriend Dan,
[13:04]who she feels is really her safe space.
[13:06]And they've been training to do this bizarre fitness
[13:10]competition in Berlin.
[13:13]And he sort of sees her as his ticket.
[13:16]You know, she's just, again, got this,
[13:18]she's just an incredibly, you know, physically gifted specimen
[13:23]of a person.
[13:24]So they've been training for many years for this competition.
[13:28]They barely eat any sugar.
[13:30]You know, like life is very strict for them.
[13:33]And I think underneath that, she's yearning to break out.
[13:37]And she's broken away from her mom.
[13:39]And yet here she is replying the same scenario
[13:42]in her romantic relationship, which like she's not the first person
[13:46]to have ever done that.
[13:47]You know, and to be kind of unaware
[13:50]that she is now recreating these old patterns
[13:53]because, you know, we often seek out the thing
[13:56]that's we're most familiar with,
[13:58]even if it's not right for us.
[14:00]So she's in this sort of toxic situation.
[14:04]She's not totally realizing that that's what it is.
[14:07]But as she gets some space from him,
[14:09]she gets injured, no spoiler.
[14:11]And then that's why she's in Switzerland with her mom.
[14:14]And she gets space from him,
[14:15]and she begins to see this other way of being in the world
[14:19]that's more gentle and more relaxed and is more her.
[14:23]And she's eating pastries.
[14:25]And she's just like, whoa,
[14:27]I want everything with a crumb structure.
[14:29]What have I been denying myself?
[14:32]And, you know, I wanted her to really have this transformation
[14:36]where yes, she had tried to voice who she really was to her mom.
[14:42]But then it was too scary to fully do that.
[14:45]So she got what they had.
[14:47]And now as the novel progresses,
[14:49]she's finally self-actualizing.
[14:52]Yeah, amazing.
[14:54]It can be hard to get out of relationships like that,
[14:58]you know, and I love that you put that into fiction.
[15:02]And sometimes it takes stepping away
[15:04]to see some of the things that are right in front of you.
[15:08]Right? Exactly.
[15:09]Exactly.
[15:10]And you also have the competitiveness of friendship.
[15:13]And, you know, I guess, fellow athletes as well.
[15:15]But, you know, that's another part of why
[15:17]Claudine is drawn to Switzerland to begin with.
[15:19]It's trying to find an old, well,
[15:23]I don't want to give plot points away,
[15:25]but find your old friend.
[15:26]And there is another plot device that you use,
[15:29]which I really enjoyed about having someone wanting to,
[15:32]you know, unearth all the secrets, right?
[15:34]And having this fictitious sub-stack come out in the middle
[15:38]and wanting to, she wants to protect her secrets,
[15:41]Claudine, and she knows who this spells out.
[15:45]Right, right.
[15:46]Yeah, Claudine has this old friend, Zossel,
[15:48]who was on the ski racing circuit with her for years
[15:51]and was her best friend for many years
[15:53]and they've had a falling out.
[15:54]And Zossel was a different type of competitor
[15:57]than Claudine, which really rocked her.
[15:59]You know, she was someone who had a better,
[16:03]just better mental health around the sport and competition
[16:06]and could give her all, and yet not really
[16:09]just sort of self-blog herself if she didn't perform well.
[16:14]And Claudine is really sort of jealous of that
[16:17]and sees herself as being flawed.
[16:20]I think Claudine is also in a framework,
[16:23]a very black and white framework.
[16:25]When you're an athlete, you're either a winner or a loser.
[16:28]Even if you lose by a tenth of a second,
[16:31]you've lost the race.
[16:32]So she's also still sort of operating in that framework
[16:38]as sort of, I'm either a good mom or a bad mom.
[16:40]I'm a good mom or I'm a good friend or a bad friend.
[16:43]And she's taken that black and whiteness
[16:46]and put it on the rest of her life
[16:48]and not allowed herself a lot of grace
[16:51]and not allowed herself to be human.
[16:54]And you know, to be human is to fail.
[16:56]You know, I'm a mom now.
[16:58]I'm really constantly messing up.
[17:00]I'm constantly trying to repair.
[17:02]And that's very scary for Claudine
[17:04]because the only thing she knows is when you mess up,
[17:07]you lose and when you lose, you actually get less love.
[17:11]When she, you know, got less love from her father.
[17:13]So it's a very scary prospect.
[17:15]So I wanted to expand that for her
[17:17]and let her start to burst out of that framework
[17:21]and give herself more grace
[17:24]and the way she operates in her life.
[17:26]And then when she does that,
[17:28]she's able then to give grace to the people around her.
[17:32]So knowing what you know about professional sports
[17:34]and competition and mental health
[17:36]and all the examples we have in the media these days
[17:39]like Simone Biles and people, you know, dropping out
[17:43]in the tennis, now I'm blanking on the tennis player's name
[17:45]who stepped aside for Naomi Osaka.
[17:48]Yes, thank you, Naomi Osaka.
[17:50]As a mom, like if your children displayed talent
[17:53]in a sport, would you want them to become professional athletes
[17:57]or not?
[17:58]That's a great question.
[18:01]You know, it's so funny, my little guy has six
[18:04]and he's already a really good soccer player
[18:07]and we're psyched to see how talented he is.
[18:13]But we're also excited to see his passion
[18:15]and his drive around it.
[18:17]Are we taking him out every weekend
[18:19]and like drilling him with soccer balls?
[18:22]You know, sort of like the William sisters?
[18:25]No, and there's nothing wrong with that
[18:28]but that's just not what we're doing.
[18:31]Do we want him to be a professional athlete?
[18:33]I mean, maybe not.
[18:36]You know, I interviewed several former Olympic ski racers
[18:43]and they don't regret their careers
[18:45]but there was a lot of sacrifice
[18:48]and one skier I spoke with who won a silver medal
[18:53]in the moguls.
[18:54]He said his first, he knew he had had the sort of run
[18:58]of his life and the first thought he had
[19:01]as he crossed the finish line was, oh no, now what?
[19:04]You know, what is he gonna do with the rest of his life?
[19:07]Where is he gonna put his focus?
[19:09]And it caused a lot of depression.
[19:12]Like it really, even though he's like victorious,
[19:15]he's now, he took a while to unwind.
[19:18]So maybe not, Zivi.
[19:20]I don't know, I don't think I have the full answer.
[19:23]I mean, if my son is like, actually,
[19:25]I'm gonna be the next Ronaldo.
[19:26]We're also like, okay, well, that's why is that beach house?
[19:30]No.
[19:30]Yeah, I wonder that too.
[19:34]We have good friends and one of their son
[19:37]is a really gifted skier.
[19:39]And they're wrestling with that too.
[19:42]Do we have an obligation in a way
[19:44]to see his immense talent through,
[19:47]even though that requires a lot of family sacrifice too?
[19:50]I mean, kids sports is a family decision, right?
[19:54]You have to invest so much time and time away
[19:57]from other things than sometimes other kids too.
[20:00]foster that talent and to what end, I don't know, these are all the questions.
[20:04]Yeah, I interviewed a freestyle skier who her family sacrificed a lot. You know, they moved to
[20:10]Colorado from Massachusetts. They sort of, you know, just changed their whole life. It was a lot
[20:15]of money. And she, the pressure that she then felt to sort of pay them back in a way and to
[20:22]actualize this vision. It just got to be too much. And it was hard for her to reckon with,
[20:29]gosh, I don't think I actually want to do this and to begin to say it out loud. And she's still,
[20:34]you know, she ended up quitting the sport. And I think she's still unwinding from that and
[20:40]letting herself off the hook and saying like, that just wasn't for me. And I think some people have to
[20:46]go almost all the way. You know, when you're at the level of an Olympian, there's so much that
[20:54]actually separates you from an incredible athlete and like the top, top elite athletes, even
[21:00]on the World Cup circuit, that the people who are crossing the finish line consistently and the
[21:04]people who are just on the circuit, there's so much that that is different between those people.
[21:10]And part of that is is mental and the mindset to be able to withstand the pressure.
[21:17]Wow. Well, this is fascinating. I don't think I've ever interviewed anybody who has
[21:22]then interviewed more people, particularly in contemporary fiction. Like you hear this a lot in
[21:26]historical fiction or maybe not first-person interviews, but research like deep dive research and
[21:31]of course the nonfiction books, but to write about an industry, how like how many interviews do
[21:36]you think you did? How many people did you speak to? Well, I definitely also spoke to folks from
[21:42]Zermatt, Switzerland, you know, that I talked with the head of tourism there. And I just,
[21:46]I have a journalism background. So I love interviewing people. And I just was like, what was that
[21:52]like to go around? He was like, I went around at the bullhorn and had to be like, you're stuck here
[21:56]for five days. And I interviewed the people who were taking helicopters and evacuating folks from
[22:03]Zermatt and realizing that wow, they could only do 500 people a day. You know, there was really
[22:07]fascinating things I learned. And I also chatted with a sports psychologist to help me unpack
[22:14]what Wily was going through. You know, what you're going through when you've been bred for
[22:21]gold and you don't want to do it. And you've got all this pressure. And he helped me sort of see
[22:27]and begin to shape her character. So, you know, I mean, all told maybe a dozen people, but I just
[22:35]loved it. And I used to ski. I'm not a great skier anymore. So I wanted to make sure I had that world
[22:42]right. And that I represented it in the right way. And I was also lucky enough to interview a
[22:49]skier who was on the World Cup circuit as one of the only moms. It's very rare to bring your kid
[22:56]as a ski racer on the circuit. And she's one of the only people who has done it. So what was that
[23:01]like to cart your kid around and rent a special van. So that that also added a lot of color to the
[23:07]book. So it raises so many questions. I feel like this book is going to be such a great entry point
[23:15]and to discussing so many different current issues that people are in the zeitgeist already,
[23:20]which is fabulous. What do you want people to take away when they put the book down?
[23:24]I think I want people to see a flawed mom and daughter who are trying to learn how to forgive
[23:32]each other and themselves. And that forgiveness isn't always linear. It happens and fits and starts.
[23:41]And it's not just always like, okay, I forgive you. We're done. It's often an evolution and it
[23:47]takes a while. And that estrangement, I know there's a lot. There's like a trend now of like no
[23:53]contact with parents sort of thing. I don't think estrangement is always the worst thing to
[23:57]happen. It often can mean you're sort of, you're hitting a pause button and you're going to
[24:05]your respective corners so that you don't do more damage and you're hopefully reflecting and
[24:11]working on yourself to come back together and approach your relationship in a new way.
[24:18]And I write about this a little in the book that I think the best thing I can hope for
[24:24]with my daughter is that we begin to later in life see each other as people, not just a mom,
[24:31]which I think is a one-dimensional role or just a daughter, but like who are we as humans?
[24:38]Because then we allow ourselves to make mistakes and then we give ourselves the grace to apologize
[24:42]and repair. So I hope there's that there's some inspiration there. And I also hope people,
[24:49]the book's also a love letter to winter and to the changing of winter as we face climate change.
[24:55]So I hope people are like, okay, like I want to do more in my small way to protect and care
[25:03]for winter itself. Saying this, it's like 75 degrees today.
[25:08]I know. So it could not be more relevant. Well, Meg, congratulations. The book was great.
[25:15]You wouldn't seamlessly integrated all of that information into a very cohesive narrative.
[25:21]Like you wouldn't know. Like I had to find this from there and like that's, you know,
[25:25]you did a fabulous job and it was immersive and fun to read, but also makes you think about
[25:31]your own relationships and how much pressure are you putting on your kids? How much did you get?
[25:36]And maybe it's not about sports. Maybe it's about something totally different, but I feel like a
[25:40]a lot of people can relate to sort of parental expectations and then how do we pay that forward
[25:45]in a way as well. So just so many, so many fun issues to discuss. Great book club book.
[25:51]Thank you, Zibi. Thanks, Meg. Congratulations. Thank you. Talk you soon. Okay.
[25:58]Thanks for listening. Two moms don't have time to read books. If you love it,
[26:02]please leave a review and follow us on social at Zibi Owens and at Zibi Readers.