Marisha Pessl, DARKLY

[1:32]Zibby Owens: Welcome to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books hosted by me, Zibby Owens. It's an award winning podcast with over 1,900 episodes all featuring authors of books you love and those you have yet discover. Listen daily five times a week. Then go to zippymedia.com and learn more about what the LA Times called the Zippyverse. Zippy Media includes Zippy's Bookshop, an independent bookstore in Santa Monica, Zippy Books Publishing, Zibby Retreats, Zibby's Book Club, and more. Go check it out at zivymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens. It'll take you where you need to go. Thanks for listening. Marisha Pessel is the author of Darkly. She is also the New York Times bestselling author of Night Film and Special Topics in Calamity Physics, as well as the young adult novel Neverworld Wake. She lives with her husband and three daughters in New York. Welcome, Marisha. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss darkly. Congratulations. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Okay. I know this is sort of the dreaded question, but could you just give the quick elevator pitch on what your book is about?

[2:43]Marisha Pessl: Sure. My book is a thriller that centers upon a long dead game maker named Louisiana Veda. She passed away forty years ago, and in the subsequent time, her board games have really taken off. There are lots of theories about who she was as a woman, as an innovator. Was she a genius? Was she a hack? And because she lived so long into the past and passed away in 1985, Now in present times, there's quite a lot of rumors. So the story focuses on a young woman named Arcadia Gannon, who is a huge Louisiana Beta fan. She wins a coveted spot in a mysterious internship that has been set up by her foundation. And, and it really sets off, a series of twists and turns as she tries to not only solve the mystery in the present, but also figure out exactly who this woman was. Which by the way, I won't give anything away, but I read to the end and

[3:41]Zibby Owens: wow. I'll just leave it at that.

[3:43]Marisha Pessl: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you.

[3:46]Zibby Owens: Loved. Loved Oh, thank you. How you wrapped that up and everything and all the Oh, good. The larger message from it all and, you know, there's a lot there to unpack.

[3:56]Marisha Pessl: I mean, I would say it's really a coming of age tale because in my own twenties, I just remember, you know, setting out upon the world with such wide eyes. And then as you learn the mechanics of power and what's really going on behind the scenes and these idols that you loved as, you know, and inspired you, like all of the writers that I loved as a child that inspired me to be a writer. And then just sort of realizing, like, what really is going on behind the scenes. You know, I'm 46 years old, and I'm still shocked, you know, by these stories. So I really am interested in that space between legend and the real dirty story of how it went down. Like, the spikes, the the troughs, the you know, and the sacrifices.

[4:42]Zibby Owens: Have there been authors who you idolized when you were younger that you found out about and you can't stop thinking about type of thing? You know what? No. I have been blessed to have had fair

[4:53]Marisha Pessl: I'm not gonna throw anyone over the bus. Okay. Okay. I will say in publishing, looking back on the publishing of my first novel, there was a great deal of sexism and, you know, a lot of, you know, people telling me, oh, you're only successful because of the way you look. I was 25 years old. I just sort of took all of this in without reacting. And I see now that was like, so completely outrageous. At the same time, there are wonderful things that happened too. So looking back on that time has been very interesting. I also have three daughters, so I'm very keen as to how all of these biases sort of slowly come about. So yes, looking back, like publishing my first novel, there was a lot. So much, that's so much like kind of surprise.

[5:38]Zibby Owens: I want to hear more about publishing your first novel, which you wrote like secretly hiding away your PwC

[5:44]Marisha Pessl: job. Right? Oh, yes. Oh, bless PwC. Yes. I understand they read all these interviews and they're like, what a jerk. But, no, I do look at this so favorably on that time. Was my fault. But yes. But would So

[6:00]Zibby Owens: you hear often about people sort of secreting away in the back of a minivan or different places or airplanes, right, for TJ Newman or wherever you can find the time because your writerly instincts just sort of seep out wherever you are and you're observing or thinking or feeling or escaping yourself from whatever it is you're doing. Yes. How did that happen with you? Like, tell me just a little more about that time and how you took the beginnings of those ideas to become such a huge successful project that I'm sure changed your life.

[6:29]Marisha Pessl: Yes. Well, you know what? I just had the bug. I mean, from a very early age writing bug. Like, I'm naturally shy. I love to be you know, I can pretend to be an extrovert, but I'm very much, like, so happy alone in my office writing. So I had the book at a very early age and, you know, I had stars in my eyes. I, you know, loved Jonathan Franzen and I saw, you know, loved White Teeth, Zadie Smith, huge Donna Tartt fan. And then going back further, like, I love Agatha Christie. I love, you know, I love I studied British literature, English literature, Jane Austen, like all the great stickers. So I just had utter stars in my eyes. Like, I just loved stories. I loved books. So however long it took me, I was just so committed and just driven by a complete joy for books. And so, yeah, I was always writing these very long books in college. And I rather fortuitously, I was kept out of the fiction writing class at Barney. The the professor was like, you're just not good enough. And I was like, well, can I try again? Can I get more work into you over the weekend? He was like, fine. And I turned in that and he was like, this just doubles down on the fact, like you should not be in my class. No, no, no. Maybe I had like a little bit of too much confidence. This man was keeping me out of the fiction writing class, big no. Well, I'm the sort of person that when someone tells me no, it's like the fire is turned up. I'm going to show that person. Don't care. And I that's exact so I was like, okay, now I'm really gonna this poor man. He just didn't think I was good enough and I probably wasn't. But so yes, fire turned up working night and day. Like in college, my friends were probably going out and having fun. Like I was sitting at my desk, writing all the time. And the same was true when I graduated. And then, you know, always putting together these books, sending them out to the New York literary agent world. And I have to say it was such a wonderful world because even though I was universally rejected, some of these people wrote the nicest, most thoughtful responses of what I needed to work on. Like, I guess they were akin to me. Like, they love books. They want great stories. So I would take that little paragraph where they actually encouraged me, and then I would set off again. And so finally, by the time Specialist Topics was published, I probably had written, you know, a lot of rejected full length books. And I have them in a box somewhere, but just, you know, it's all born out of a love of the written word, love of books. And and now I see culturally, like, how much we need books, just physical books, no screens, sitting in actually, your room looks pretty cozy. Come on over. Sitting there's something similar to this. And it's just, you know, going into a story. It's so good for mental health. It's good for imagination, concentration. Like, I just so I remember when special topics came out and they said, oh, you know, with video games and the Internet, like, you're not gonna have a job. So reports of book stuff has been greatly exaggerated.

[9:38]Zibby Owens: Yeah. Reports of the demise of the publishing industry, all of it. Exactly. You know? Just does not go away. And like you, I have in the cabinet you're looking at back there, I have a stack of my mini stack of my own rejection letters from my twenties. But unlike you, I it didn't set the fire as much as, like, set me back a little bit to, like, regroup and Right. Right. Well

[9:59]Marisha Pessl: yeah. I have to say. So yeah.

[10:02]Zibby Owens: So you mentioned your daughters. Tell like, how do you raise great readers and writers? Because I have four kids myself, and people are always asking me this. And I'm like, I don't know. So do you have any thoughts on this? Well,

[10:16]Marisha Pessl: I'm not a big fan of screen time. I we do not, I don't hand much to my child an iPad ever because I, again, I think, so my key so far, and granted my kids are four, seven and nine, fat lady has not stopped, but we just very much limit that. So if their only form of entertainment is reading or talking to mom, you know, so that, and also, I mean, a lot of it is like, I think we're just such a huge book household. There are books everywhere, books in the kitchen, books stacked on tables. So it's just very easy to pick up a book and curl up with sisters and read and having those places. Books are not put away.

[11:04]Zibby Owens: So they're stacked everywhere. So it's just very easy for them to pick up. Yes. So how do you with three daughters of those ages, which is intense, you know, my youngest is actually nine and my oldest is 17. Amazing. I'm in slightly different phase and by the way, bad about screen time. So I sort of envy attention. You are like, I mean, I I wish I had could go back and do it differently, but I didn't. And now I'm feel very stuck here. But anyway, talk about how you're writing now and how you got into darkly versus special topics in calamity physics and how your life is obviously so different, but how do you how do you approach your narratives? How do you approach the structure when you're doing the writing? Like, does it come in fits and bursts? Like, what does it look like, and how has it changed? It's so funny. So before I had children, when I was just, you know, a single woman in New York City,

[11:56]Marisha Pessl: talk about having all the time in the world, luxuriating in this time as if it was like an infinite resource. So, you know, lots of, you know, taking my time. Now I'm much more, okay. It I have to write between now and 03:00 before pickup, so I just get it done. Mhmm. And there's a wonderful velocity to it, and you're not thinking too much about it. I actually think it's healthier letting the subconscious take over. So you're not so persnickety, I would say. At the same time, my process has not changed in that I'm a planner. I love to plan. So I map it out as much as possible. Night film, I didn't map as much. And that's why I think it took me longer because then I had to go through the jungle and hack things away. So now just for efficiency sake, completely plot everything before I even start. Because there's always that writer need like, oh, I want to start writing. Nope, no, no. Like, come on. Now we have deadlines. We have people waiting for this thing. Got it done. So being a mom and having all these balls in the air has made it much more efficient and not being so, you know, if it's done, there's beauty in that versus a gorgeous sentence and yet like, you're so late on your deadline. So yeah. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[15:59]Zibby Owens: And do board games play a role in your family? How did the the game and gaming in general? Like, tell me about that. And Well, yes. I mean, this the love of it was born from my childhood,

[16:10]Marisha Pessl: like trivial pursuit. And even, like, when I was really young, Chutes and Ladders, Monopoly, just like all of those classics on, you know, rainy nights, like, in with my mom and my sister and grandmother and just, you know, playing board games and getting pretty competitive about it. But those are just like wonderful family bonding times. And so I also was interested in how things like become a work of art because the character of Louisiana Beta, her original games are now sold and put on walls. So, sort of merging the video gaming world with the analog board game space, and then this idea of works of art and sort of Louisiana inhabiting those spaces and creating a gaming world where clues from her own biography are hidden inside the games. So it was a way of her telling her story when back in 1985, probably no one wanted to hear the truth of this woman who rose from nowhere and became so successful. Interesting.

[17:14]Zibby Owens: And it takes place in part in an antiques store. Tell me, do you have a thing for antique stores? Do you spend a lot of time there? Do. So I grew up in Asheville, North Carolina. And I think so Hendersonville,

[17:26]Marisha Pessl: which is really close to Asheville. My mom and I would go, like, often after school because my mom loves antiques, and we would troll. There's this in Downtown Hendersonville, there are all these antique stores, you know, floors, and no one's ever in them. So I I have memory of my childhood where it was just my mom and I wandering, you know, in the dust balls. And was there even somewhat like a proprietor of the store? I don't know. You know? And just finding all of the things like the silver and the portraits and the broken tables, all of these things have such a story, and it's completely lost. Like, you know, families, people pass away, you know, get rid of the stuff. So it's really just kind of erased, and you can make up your stories around it. And I love old things. So yeah.

[18:12]Zibby Owens: I went to a store in LA, and it was a mix of new and old. So you could wander through, and it was like this really cool lamp from god you know, from so long ago next to a new, I don't know, coffee table book and all this stuff. And so I suggested to the owner who was talking to me about, I don't know, something. I was like, you should host a class here, a writing class, and everyone should just pick an object and sit down and, like, write all day because how can you not be inspired? Yes. And the old with the new. Like, I love that. Right? I know. I'm gonna go back and bring it up again. But all antique stores. I mean, you know, my ring that I got for my second final wedding, I hope, anyway, you know, we found in a in, like, an antique store. And I always wonder, like, what is that story? And there must be a novel there. Right? What is it? I know.

[19:00]Marisha Pessl: Well, and also, I have this ring from I love antiques from New Orleans. Like and all of those. Like, I always ask, like, where did this come from? I don't know. In a state zone. I'm like, this has a story. You know? I found mine in Charleston, which I feel also has lots of ghosts and things Yes. Of

[19:18]Zibby Owens: Yes. I know. I love it. Will there be any sort of creative launch events with any sort of game component or anything to it or art or something cool? What are you doing to launch the book? Definitely. Definitely. We have some really interesting preorder

[19:32]Marisha Pessl: swag. K. And then I know my publisher is working on, like, what the launch parties are. And I think we might have a Zoom for fans prior to publication, something along the lines of some sort of mystery. But all of that is in the works to be contained. I know. It makes you wanna you should launch an internship,

[19:50]Zibby Owens: like a similar contest and pick, like, six people at random or something. You know? Should try purchase an island. There's a lot of Well, don't get the island. But maybe do I don't know. An opportunity. Missed my other deadline. So, yeah. Yeah. It's sponsored. Yeah. You could still have people submit, like, Yes. Similar application, and then you'd, like, get all this information. Idea.

[20:12]Marisha Pessl: Right? I'll add that to your plate. Can you be in charge? I'll be in charge of the internship project

[20:19]Zibby Owens: As long as I can sort of keep an intern or something.

[20:23]Marisha Pessl: Wait, you mentioned a deadline. So what are you working on next? So now I'm editing my next adult novel. So that is a little yeah. We're putting some finishing touches on it. Oh, what can you say about that? Gosh. Well, what's really funny, so when I announced darkly, a lot of people on X were like, Why do you always write about young people? Like, what's wrong with you? Message received. Maybe there won't be as many young people this time. Okay. I love the feedback. Thanks for the message. So yes. But it's very exciting.

[20:55]Zibby Owens: Oh. Nothing more than that. Okay. Okay. I'll I'll wait with faded breath. Do you have advice for aspiring authors? And I'd also love to hear advice you have on sustaining a writing career and not letting it sort of eclipse. Like, what do you you know, how do you keep it all going and not Yes.

[21:14]Marisha Pessl: Yep. You know what? Yeah. Well, so maybe my advice for young writers and my advice for keeping going would be the same. And that I wish someone had told me way back in my twenties that there's great glory and just doing one thing well. So I remember, you know, when special topics came out, I was pulled in a million directions. And then now I'm much more about the ability to write one novel well and the routine of that, which can be grueling. Think as a young person, you're like, oh, maybe I should go over here and maybe I should write this, but choose I guess this is some people might not like this, but choose what you love. And it does mean not doing something else and just work on the routine of doing that well. And there's really no like magic formula other than hard work, reading, writing every day, learning from others, But just that routine and repetition, I am now, like, in love with this. Like, having this plan, this is what I do. I know this, like, zen like repetition without going over here and without going over there. Just the same thing. Yeah. I do not follow that advice.

[22:29]Zibby Owens: That is hard for me to follow. I feel like I need lots of stuff at all times.

[22:35]Marisha Pessl: No, I know. Well, also have a lot of love for other things too. No, of course you do. But now this is my routine. Writing one novel well is hard enough. So I just love starting again, and this now is complete, and here I go again. And yes. Yes. Yes.

[22:56]Zibby Owens: And when you're not parenting and writing novels, what are some of your favorite things to do?

[23:03]Marisha Pessl: I would say now that the kids are old enough, like, we are now traveling. And I love, like, we are getting up and going, you know. And I'm also embracing the chaos of if there's a meltdown, if there's a fight, like we just we will show up at the airport, we will get on the plane, we will go to this foreign location and every and and just create all these amazing memories. I guess sometimes it's the most like, oh, these terrible situations. Now when my husband and I look back, we're like, that was so great. Like we were so uncomfortable and we thought it was all going to seed and it turned out like we just came together as a family. So embrace the chaos, pick up, get up early, and go somewhere. Like, that's now my my family motto. Love that.

[23:53]Zibby Owens: Love it. And any books you are reading right now that you're obsessed with? Yes. I'm reading

[23:59]Marisha Pessl: Is This Anything by Jerry Seinfeld? Because I'm probably the biggest Jerry Seinfeld fan in the world. This, like, will make you laugh out loud. Like, I just have it on my bedside. I read it. I laugh. I go to sleep. Then the other book I'm loving is this Super communicators. I haven't read this. Authors, we need all the help we can get. So

[24:23]Zibby Owens: I'm working on that. And then I'm on the That's by Charles Duhigg, who is an old friend of mine from college and business. Oh, you're kidding. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yes. Well, actually, my husband was given it

[24:33]Marisha Pessl: by a colleague and he's like, you need to read this. So I love it so far. And then now I'm on the Sarah Mass bandwagon. I'm diving into the Crescent City and loving it. That's amazing. If only we had more time to read. Know. All fits and starts. And that's what airplanes are for. Yes. Exactly.

[24:54]Zibby Owens: Thank goodness for that. Well, you so much. This has been so much fun and congratulations and thanks for the book. And I'm so excited to see all the huge response to it. And I really enjoyed seeing where it all ended up. Thank you so much for having me, and I'm in awe of everything that you've created. So I'm Thank you. Looking

[25:14]Marisha Pessl: forward. Hopefully, my book tour takes me to Los Angeles, hopefully, I'll be able to come visit. Yes, please do. Okay. All right. Thank you. Bye.

[25:24]Zibby Owens: Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social Zippy Owens and at Zippy Readers.