Julie Fingersh, STAY: A Story of Family, Love, and Other Traumas

[1:37]Zibby Owens: Welcome to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books hosted by me, Zibby Owens. It's an award winning podcast with over 1,900 episodes all featuring authors of books you love and those you have yet to discover. Listen daily five times a week. Then go to zippymedia.com and learn more about what the LA Times called the Zippyverse. Zippy Media includes Zippy's Bookshop, an independent bookstore in Santa Monica, Zippy Book Publishing, Zibby Retreats, Zibby's Book Club, and more. Go check it out at zivymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens. It'll take you where you need to go. Thanks for listening. Julie Fingersch is the author of Stay, a story of family, love, and other dramas. Julie is a writer and freelance journalist. Her work has appeared in the New York Times, Oprah Magazine, Huffington Post, the San Francisco Chronicle, Miami Herald, Businessweek, and more. Her Substack newsletter, take my advice, I'm not using it, is a midlife sequel to an award winning humor column she wrote in New York City in her twenties for Billboard publications. Julie also served as the founding executive director of Boston Cares, which became a nationally recognized model for community and corporate partnerships and recently celebrated its third decade of service. A Kansas City native, she has two adult children and lives with her husband in Marin County, California. Welcome, Julie. Thank you so much for coming on moms don't have time to read books to discuss your amazing book, Stay, a story of family love and other traumas. So good.

[3:09]Julie Fingersh: So happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh. Okay. Tell listeners the elevator pitch. What is your book about? Oh my gosh. That's the thing that's so interesting that is as many times as people ask me, it's so very difficult to do in a quick summary because it is about

[3:27]Zibby Owens: You you want me to try?

[3:29]Julie Fingersh: Yeah. You try. Zibby, please. I can't wait to hear yours because I it's I feel like it's like all things to different things to different people. I can't wait. Let me hear. I think it's a coming of middle age story about wrestling

[3:44]Zibby Owens: with past grief, the uncertainty of launching kids into the world and dealing with all the things that come with it, including illness and things that are out of your control and trying to wrestle with the past as the future lays out in front of you.

[4:03]Julie Fingersh: Okay. Let me just write that down. What do you think? I think it's no. I mean, I left a lot out. There's so much in here. But Yeah. That is that and and I think it's also so much about the cost of our past on our present and, like, that invisible blueprint that we can live with without realizing it's a blueprint until it kinda comes back to roost. And I think that for a lot of us, it's midlife where it all comes to roost. And then you get the choice of, like, what are you gonna do with that? Are you gonna be buried with it, or are you gonna are you gonna run towards it? And just side note, you're an example of someone who ran toward it. And I'm you did because you took one life and then you created a whole new life. And I I think that's kinda what's happening for me and and but it came I don't I don't know that it came from this from you, but for me, it came out of, like, a a sort of a deep, like, paralysis of, like I didn't really know what was going on inside, and it took me writing to figure that out.

[5:15]Zibby Owens: Well, you have a moment in the book. Well, first of all, I in my explanation, it is also specifically about your brother's descent into mental illness, Danny, when you were younger and his eventual death, and I'm so sorry, and also your daughter, Jesse, and her stomach issues and how that escalated. And, basically, these two things that will are simultaneously spiraling out of your control with people that you love and you're not knowing what to do. But then there's this overlay, which I love, and I kept chuckling, like, reading all these things. Like, your daughter is out in the world and is about to, like, go on a motorcade with Hillary Clinton, you're in Target being like, how is she with Hillary? And I'm at Target. Right? And it's it's something that most women don't talk about. Like It's true. Can we be jealous of our kids? Like, did we miss out? Like, did our moms feel like this? Did our grandmothers feel like this? Like anyway, so I feel like that moment is when you're calling, I think, your husband on the phone in Target, Like, just tell me tell me about that because I feel like that was some sort of turning point.

[6:18]Julie Fingersh: It was. It was. And you know how in writing, they're like, what's the inciting incident? It has to be, like, something really powerful. And I was like, well, this is horribly embarrassing because my inciting incident was that I had always I had always sort of seen myself as a really good parent. It was, like, the thing I was really good at. And suddenly, I was feeling literally envious of my child, and it was so dysphoric to me. And I was sitting there. I dropped her off. She was part of the Hillary Clinton campaign, and she was gonna be driving the motorcade around. And and I and the secret service guy was like, ma'am, you know, kind of looking, like, through me because I am no longer a person because I am, like, the mother. And I was like, I now have six hours to go do something while my daughter's, like, there. And I was sitting in that parking lot, and and I was just like, what happened to my life? Because I was a writer, and I was, like, totally headed for the stars as she was. But that that feeling of of envy was so awful, and it made me realize that it was sort of and it is you're right. It's something we don't as parents. It's, you know, you're allowed to be, like, have certain feelings about your kids. But, know, envy is just definitely not one of them. And and it just made me realize that it really had nothing to do with her. It was more like what had happened to my life, and I had made these choices that were suddenly coming back to roost. And it was in writing the book, what was amazing to me was getting in touch with things that I just I I consider myself a very introspective and kind of, you know, perceptive person. And it's like, how do you miss things in your very own life? You know, how do you like, I I don't know if you've ever read Walker Percy. He's a southern writer who's amazing. He wrote the moviegoer, which is, like, a really influential book to me. And he talks about he talks about, like, why is it that we can look in a mirror Mhmm. Over and over again. But once you're away from the mirror, you don't really know what you look like. Other people know what you look like. But if you had to draw a self portrait, you don't. And so, anyway, it was it was it was a lot about that. And I think the reason it's resonating for people is that I think there are a lot of women in our generation who made choices that we, you know, thought were best for our families. And and then, you know, the rest of the parts of us came up and were like, we have things to to come to terms with. So

[9:07]Zibby Owens: No. I mean, I stayed home with my kids like you did. And when I read in your book when the guy you were on the phone with, and he was like, oh, Julie, back from the dead. You know? Yeah. And you're like, I wasn't dead. I was staying at home with my kids. You know? Like like, people just don't necessarily know what to do with the fact that our identities can be sort of paused, like, because we're doing this thing that is very important. And I know you wrestled with the decision, but it's like, as we all do. Right? But they are only young ones. And, you know, what do you do if you have the luxury of of making that choice? And what does that say about you as a person? How do you kind of, like, get back into it? So Right. Don't know. Your examples, I just just like, yes. I've I've been there. It's such a funny thing also because I think you and I are similar in that. For many of us, we had these huge lives before kids.

[9:55]Julie Fingersh: Right? And, like, I you know, I talked about it in the book. It was like, was a writer, and I worked for Business Week, and I had national bylines, and then I was the head of an organization. And I had, you know, board meetings. And I was on a stage with Colin Powell, and I was a person. And then suddenly, I was in a little circle at a music thing with a drooling baby on my lap. And for many years, was just known as Jesse's mom and then Jesse and Sam's mom. And it and sort of, like, society's fake campaign about motherhood. Like like, that guy said to me, his name shall go unnamed, that back from the dead, it's like and then when I was like, well, I'm I'm not really dead. And he was like, oh, oh, this is the most important job in the world. And then you just are like, this is fake. This is literally fake because because that's what everyone says. And we know it's true as moms, but it's not really valued as such.

[10:54]Zibby Owens: Oh my gosh. Right? Yeah. Can we talk about our shared love of Anna Quinlan? And you you mentioned her so much throughout the book and how you used to wait for her columns to come out on every Thursday and right? Every Thursday? And how she's been, you know, a role model for you. And then you thanked her again in the acknowledgments, and you're like, Anna Quinlan was not involved in the writing of this book. Right. Right.

[11:16]Julie Fingersh: But she well, so did you you read her when you were young too? Yes. I am obsessed. I love her. I love. So so so didn't like, were you like me in that when I started reading her, I was like, wait a second. This is a possibility. People can write about life. Mhmm. Because, okay, that seems important. And then I just yeah. I she has totally lit my way. And I just think that she opened the world up to the idea of living out loud, which is, as you know, one of her books. And that it it's sort of like she has put up a mirror for us that it's okay. You know? It's okay to to be transparent and to live out loud. And the thing is that's so interesting, like, watching your career unfold and then watching before that, hers. And now bizarrely watching mine is that the irony is the more you live out loud, the more people respond because you're one of the few. Like, you say things that people don't say out loud, and that's why people that's one of the reasons why people are so drawn to you because it's like somebody's telling the truth. You know? Somebody's telling the truth. And whether it's for, you know, about life or about you know, in this book, it's it's like giving a window into mental illness and to chronic illness, which, you know, I mean, you know, I hadn't talked about my brother for thirty years. My when I a couple year a few years ago, when I came out at high holiday services and I was asked to tell a story, I was like it was at that time I was having so much, you know, angst. And I was like, you think I have to do this? I think I have to go public with this. And when I did that, when I talked about that personal story, there were maybe 10 people in the room who even knew I had a brother. And I've been living in California for twenty five years. And what was so life changing to me and really has defined my course now going forward is how and I know the same thing because I read about you that the same thing happens to you is that so many people came up to me and were like, thank you for for like, I didn't know you that could happen to you. You know, people we we project these visions of ourselves, and and then it gives people, you know, the chance to to know that, like, actually, that's the path. That's the path to meaning and connectedness and intimacy, you know, to tell the truth. So I think I've answered a question you didn't ask. Sorry about that. It's very important. No. I mean, sharing

[14:18]Zibby Owens: is the most connecting thing you can do. Like, people are craving that vulnerability. We all need a path forward and to not feel like we're crazy with our own thoughts. You know? I mean, I actually, I shouldn't say it that way given that we are talking to your brother mental illness, and I did say it that way. No. No. But, you know, we're not alone in in in how we feel. And, you know, it's not easy for everybody, and people have backstories you don't know. And if we just were to share them like, there was a while where I was like, can't we all just get these t shirts, like, so that we know? Like, if we were walking down the street, like, you know, anniversary of of the loss of someone I love today, and, like, people would treat you differently or, like, you know, used to be really shy, lost my brother, like, da da da da da. Like, all these things, like, people immediately would come over to you and be like, oh my god. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zippy.

[17:44]Zibby Owens: But

[17:45]Julie Fingersh: we don't do that. You know what's you know what's so funny? I don't know if you know this, that Frank Bruni to to read Frank Bruni in the New York Times. So one of his recent book, I'm like, it's the name of escaping me. Yeah. But he about his eye Blindness. Yeah. Blindness. He talked about that exact thing. He said, we should have sandwich is it called the or are they called sandwich We should have sandwich boards that are like, lost my brother.

[18:14]Zibby Owens: Yeah. It's an anniversary Sandwich board? That's an even better idea.

[18:17]Julie Fingersh: Isn't that? But is that I did read the book, so I didn't know that. It's oh, it's so good. And, you know, I think can I tell you one thing that has really, like, had a huge impact on me in this whole book journey? Yeah. Tell me. Your project on being Jewish now and and the fact that you are coming out as one of the very few leaders to really stand up and say the truth. And it is challenging a lot of us Jews who have been a little bit, like, understanding the cost of telling the truth because we're seeing it. But then to see someone like you do it, and it is frankly, I think as you know, because I believe I wrote you, like, a very long, probably inappropriately boundary boundaryless comment on Facebook, has really challenged me because it's actually connected me. It's it's kinda brought to a head this idea of hiding. And it made me realize that, like, this book I wrote because of the cost of hiding. And now we're in this moment, and I'm in this, like, really weird phase where my book is about to come out. And then also October 7, and we're watching how it was the beginning, October 7, which we thought was gonna be the moment where, like, you know, we would perhaps be treated as Jews, like, with the same humanity as every other group. But, actually, we found out that that was, like, the kickoff for the campaign of hate. And it's such a challenge because I'm like, as I've said to you, I I have been in a quandary about it because I really feel like, am I really posting about my little book while, you know, my cousins in Israel are sending their children literally into war against their will, but that because what else were they gonna do? So, anyway, maybe we'll talk about this offline, but I just want you to know that it's I finally, in these last few days and after coming to your launch event and and and seeing everybody just and and reading the stories, it's really come to me that, like, duh. The connection that, yeah, there's gonna be a cost. There's gonna be a cost to telling the truth. There's gonna be, you know, I'm well, actually, so far, really weirdly, this book is like if if people are like, I'm having a thought hangover. I you're making me question myself in all these different ways, and it's because I stopped hiding. And, anyway, another question I'm answering you didn't ask, but I I just I feel like so much of this book and so much of our lives are really about the question that life asks of us, which is, are we gonna live authentically? Are we gonna tell the truth? And are we gonna own, like, all the parts of ourselves, whether it's you lost a brother to mental illness and back at a time where that was the biggest stigma or you're a Jewish author in a day where Jewish authors are being, you know, gone after. So, anyway, it's such an intense time, I think,

[21:35]Zibby Owens: in our world, isn't it? It is. Thank you for even sharing that. I mean, even that, it's so powerful. I mean

[21:42]Julie Fingersh: Well, you're really it's hard as a former journalist not to turn this around and interview you, which I would like to do at a separate point. But I really think you have been an example of finding your voice not just for you, but for the rest of the world. And I think that you know how people are like, I wrote this book to help other people. Well, I'm really sorry to say I didn't. I didn't write this book to help people. I wrote this book because I was in a personal state of hell, and it was the only way I could get out of it. But then once I wrote it, because I have an ego and I have you know, and also wanted to be a writer again, I decided I'm gonna take this and then turn it from a journal. I mean, I guess it was never really a journal, but into a real book. That's like a book that is gonna challenge people to, like, think about their parenting, the sort of line between nurturing and codependence, the line between taking care of others and and actually doing it for ourselves, like fulfilling our own needs by being needed. You know? I mean, there's just so many at every stage of our life as we lose things and as we gain things, we're like, life asks us, what are you doing and why are you doing it? And I think that I don't know. So I went from writing a book that really was for me to hopefully writing one that will give people thought hangovers about where they've been and where they're going and what what is left of their lives and how are they gonna use it. Because that's something that I just I'm really the older I get with the privilege I have of being able to, like, not necessarily go to a factory every day and make widgets, like, how am I gonna use it? And part of it, I think, is gonna be to follow in Anna Quinlan's footsteps and to follow in your footsteps even though you're younger than me, but I'm still following. Barely. Barely. But but, seriously, to just you know, how are we using our life? Yeah. Especially given the world we're living in right now. So, anyway, sorry. I feel like I've taken over this interview.

[23:57]Zibby Owens: Another question. You were supposed to take over the interview because it's not an interview. These are conversations. I just wanna, like, I just wanna have meaningful conversations. That's why I do this podcast. Like, it's not so I can I don't have a list I ever run through of, like, I have to ask this, I have to ask that? I just wanna talk to people. This is exactly why I do the show, is everything you were saying. This is why I do everything. Like, to give people the inspiration to know that, like, they can take a different next step and, like, now is the time. And that's exactly what your book is saying to us, you know? I mean Yeah. It's proving that. It's a complete example of it's never too late. You can always start your next chapter. Like, it's time to reassess.

[24:39]Julie Fingersh: We love people so much. Our you know, secret keeping secrets is the most, like, corrosive thing that can happen to us. Corrosive. Yes. Like, let's connect and and make our world better and other people's while we're at it. Like, that's what happened. You know? Right. No. It's so true. And you know the thing that's weird about midlife that no one really tells you till you get here is, you know, it's got a terrible brand. If you could please do something. Could you do Maybe one of your projects, we need to redo my pen. Let me get my pen put on my list. Please. Appear with, like, the Zippy Hotel and all my other pipe dreams. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I that would also be good. Because New York City, I'm like, yeah, to just a few blocks away from you right now and in my in my cousin's daughter's bedroom and thinking, like, it would be nice if wouldn't it be fun to have a hotel for writers?

[25:28]Zibby Owens: Yeah. I have the whole thing. I have the whole thing. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. The whole thing. We'll talk about it. I know what it looks like. I walk the halls when I'm stressed in my brain. Oh my god. It all decorated. Have, There'll like be writing rooms to people. Writing rooms, then, like, everybody congregates. It's like a perpetual retreat.

[25:46]Julie Fingersh: Okay. I love it so much. Okay. I would love for you to put on your list rebranding midlife because it's now it's so funny. I don't remember who I was talking to. Oh, I think funny. Sticky note. I'll put it now on my on my computer. Okay. Please put me on that committee. Please put me on there. So because it's so funny. I was talking to my publicist, and she's like, well, it kinda sucks because all the midlife magazines, like, went out of business. Like, you know, remember more and Yeah. Yeah. All these ones. Oh, turns out they're just not that, like, fashionable. Okay. Meanwhile, how many millions of midlife women are there? I mean, are we not, like, the engine for everything? Everything. Yes. And but the thing that I think no one tells you is that if you have the privilege and and and it not everyone can do this. But you have children, and once that job is over and I know your kids are still young. I don't know if you're feeling this way. When my kids were your kid's age, I was like, I am in hell. Nothing is gonna matter nearly as much. No. No. Because my I have two 17 year olds. So I'm going through this, like, imminent empty nest with them, and the younger kids are still home, but it's different. They're different kids. They're different. Right. Because then they turn then you lose those little kids, and now you have these other kids who, like, it's a whole different version, and you have to be excited about it even when you're very sad also. Yes. And you're excited. But the thing about I'm here to tell you as being a person on the other side who looked at that empty nest as a just vortex of fear, anxiety, and dread.

[27:24]Zibby Owens: That What about peak life? Peak life? No? You don't like it? Sorry. Cut you off. You know, because it's not the middle. It and we don't know if it's the middle. It could be, like, close to the end. You know what you know what you know what Jane Fonda called it? She called it prime time.

[27:40]Julie Fingersh: No. I like that. I like it. I know. We see? It's hard to brand. But the point is I yeah. Okay. You have to do no. No. Is that, like sorry to keep bringing this back to you. But you really you really did you are an example of somebody who had one life and then you just created another. Now true. You had lots of things that lots of people don't have to help you do that, but we all have resources of some kind to do that with. And what people didn't tell me about midlife is that it turns out that it can be every bit as rich and in some ways richer because you're smarter, you care less about other people's opinions, and you have a perspective of what's important that you couldn't have when you were younger because you were too busy, like, people pleasing and, like, following the rule book and realize not you didn't know yet that the rules were, like, stupid and counterproductive. Yep. But now you're in this moment where you can. And the fact that, like, I look back, and I'm just not to brag, but it's like, in my twenties, I wrote. I had national bylines. I was, like, totally head for the stars. Then I was completely sidelined for three decades. And then when I turned 50, I was like, I have to find that person I used to be. I don't even remember who that was. Yes. And then here I mean, I'm saying it not to be bragging, but to say, I am an example. You're an example. It's like, I've I write for the New York Times. I write for oh, I got I I had gotten to places I could never have imagined as a kid. And it's not because I'm so great. It's because I gave myself the space to do it and to really, like right? And to to the permission Yep. To come into midlife as you have and and and and figure out how to not be just for yourself, but how to be for the rest of the world too in a way that only you can, right, as a as an older person. This whole conversation

[29:43]Zibby Owens: could have been like a brand download because this is like exactly what I want to be doing. Anyway, this is amazing. This whole thing. Okay. Can so can we keep talking? Yes. Not not, but like because seriously, yes. So anyway Yes. Just to summarize. Sorry. Because there is a book Yeah. Behind this I know. No. I mean, seriously, your book is so good. And I I know we didn't even like talk about Dani, and, you know, that's a huge through It's No. No. Whatever. And also, you know, Jesse and everything. And there's just but it's the thoughts between all the big events. Right? It's the backstory. It's the heart and soul and voice. And that's why I I find this book so powerful and why you and I could just chitchat all day about this stuff because this is it. And if everyone felt empowered to mobilize now, think about how different life will be with everyone. True. So anyway And start and no. Agree. And and it starts with telling the truth. Yes. And it starts with telling Doesn't it? Yes. A 100%. Yeah. Julie, this is amazing.

[30:49]Julie Fingersh: I'm gonna see you, like, tomorrow, I think. Anyway I am gonna see you tomorrow. Can I tell you the greatest bookend of all? Yes. I wonder if I'm allowed to I think she would be okay with me saying this. A dream came true, and that was that Anna Quinlan wrote me. Do you know this? I think you you emailed me, but say tell this tell it. Okay. Because I I hope she doesn't mind. She emailed me. She somehow well, I've sent her the book and then, like, prayed that she would actually get it and find it, and we won't. I don't know how that really happened. But and she did. And she wrote me, and and she said that it expanded herself, her her knowledge of self. And, honestly, to me, like, that's the other thing that we can do in midlife is to help those around us. But first, we have to figure our own self. Yes. But once we do that Yes. So, anyway, excited to share that because That's amazing. Thank you. That's amazing. I love that. She's the best. You're the best. She is. Thank you. I will see you soon. Thank you. Thank you, Judy. Okay. Bye. Thanks so much for having me. Okay. For anyone still listening, Stay, a story of family love and other traumas. Bye. Bye.

[32:00]Zibby Owens: Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social Zippy Owens and at Zippy Readers.