W. Bruce Cameron, MY THREE DOGS
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[0:43]W Bruce Cameron is the author of My Three Dogs A Novel.
[0:47]Bruce is the number one New York Times and USA Today best-selling author of A Dog's Purpose, A Dog's Way Home, and A Dog's Journey, all-now major motion pictures.
[0:57]Also, The Dog Master, A Dog's Promise, The Puppy Tales for Young Readers, starting with Ellie's Story and Bailey's Story, The Dogs of Christmas, The Midnight Plan of the Rebowman, and others.
[1:09]He lives in California.
[1:10]Welcome, Bruce. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss your many books that have really improved the lives of my kids and myself and our whole family and reading them, so thank you so much for all you do.
[1:24]Thank you for having me. This is great.
[1:27]It's been a wonderful meeting you at the bookstore and your lovely wife, Catherine, and everything, so that's been such a joy.
[1:35]It has really been fun. This business is such an interesting business.
[1:41]It keeps just getting more people every day. I mean, authors, booksellers. It's just wonderful.
[1:51]Well, maybe I know you have so many, but a couple of two new books coming out this fall. I mean, you're so prolific. It's amazing.
[1:58]And you have such a huge body of work already with all of your series' and basically, how did you turn your love of dogs into stories that literally everyone can relate to, a movie that people cry and love, and my dog is shaking in the background.
[2:16]Yeah, that's actually exactly.
[2:19]Like, how did you tap into that and when and why and just what's the backstory?
[2:24]Yeah, I didn't set out to be the dog book guy. I was the humor book guy. I wrote a book called Eight Simple Rules for Dating My Teenage Daughter.
[2:32]And I'm a TV show at ABC and that's why I moved out to Hollywood. Before that, I was just a humor writer for the Rocky Mountain News and then the Denver Post and then I was syndicated.
[2:42]So I was just writing jokes and then I got into this dog book business because Catherine Bishan, my now wife was this woman I had met out in Hollywood and I was, we were dating.
[2:55]This is almost, it's almost embarrassing to say because I'm so old. Why am I dating? But and then she wanted me to meet her parents.
[3:02]I read that in the afterword of her book so funny. Oh, my gosh. Anyway, keep going.
[3:07]It's so unseemly. But anyway, so I, we were on our way up to meet her parents and her. She turns me out of the blue and says, you know, I lost my dog and I can't do that again.
[3:16]I'll never have another dog and I was just, well, I was devastated. I felt like I was sandbags. She should have told me that before I got in the car to drive up the bay area because it's like a career to get up there, you know, and I was like.
[3:31]I was trapped in the car where I decided to try to talk her into the idea that the same love she had from her original dog would be available to her in another dog.
[3:41]And that that dog might even be her original dog come back to her and so I, I made up a story about a reincarnating dog and I told her this story and she loved it and she said, you have to write that as a book.
[3:53]So I did. And that was a dog's purpose and a dog's purpose completely changed. There it is completely changed the trajectory of my life because we sold it immediately as a movie script and we.
[4:10]meaning Catherine and I were writing partners in our movie. And then I have, this is my 36th published book here about 28 of them are dog books, meaning books featuring dogs booked from a dog point of view.
[4:25]That's kind of my specialty and just from the topic. This is book number 37, which will be out in October.
[4:33]So Bruce is for those who can see Bruce is holding up my three dogs and hold up the other one about the firehouse, which I started reading also, Ripley fire station five.
[4:43]Tell me about those two books.
[4:46]So I started a new series called dogs with a purpose and I have had amazing success with a whole line of books called the puppy tails and these are books like Bailey's story, Molly's story, Ellie's story and the children just love them. They skew.
[5:03]There you go.
[5:04]I have them all here.
[5:05]This is actually embarrassing at this point, but anyway.
[5:08]So yeah, children love those books. I again, I didn't set out to be a children's book author.
[5:16]That was entirely by accident and I'm not to this day a children's book writer.
[5:22]I authored children's books and what happens is I write a book for an adult and then they tinker with it at the publisher to make it the vocabulary less sophisticated.
[5:33]The rule is that they don't know what the word means. The kids are not to know what the word means. I'm okay.
[5:38]And so I've written 10 of those puppy tails. I got an 11th coming out next year.
[5:43]But I wanted to write a more focused on dogs that have jobs and I called them dogs with a purpose.
[5:50]And the first one was Zeus water rescue about a water rescue chocolate Labrador living in Hawaii and learning to save drowning people.
[5:58]Ripley fire station five is the story of a dog that flanks out of blind dog training.
[6:05]You got a guide dogs for the blind.
[6:07]But it's still highly intelligent, a blue mural border collar, a beautiful dog, adopted by a firefighter who has a theory.
[6:15]And the theory is that in a fire when you're looking for people who are trapped by the fire, there's no better way to do that than to employ a dog with that magnificent nose even with a mascot.
[6:27]I was one of my first jobs was looking for the fire department in a suburban area outside of Kansas City.
[6:34]And I was on the rescue squad. So it was part of my job to go into a burning building and search for people.
[6:40]Well, I couldn't see anything. I was wearing all this equipment. I think they liked it.
[6:46]They thought it was funny to give me the oldest heaviest equipment that they had.
[6:50]So at that time when I stepped out of the shower, I weighed 135 pounds and the equipment weighed 135 pounds.
[6:57]So basically I could stand up or lie down. I had no other positions.
[7:01]So anyway, I thought this is crazy. I'm in this house. I can't see anything but smoke.
[7:08]It's like someone has taken masking tape and put it on my mask. I thought, why do we have dogs?
[7:13]I thought a dog could cut through the clutter. You can train a dog to ignore everything else and just focus on finding the person.
[7:20]And that was the genesis of the idea for Ripley.
[7:23]And it's a very similar experience to mine. Ripley is brought to a suburban fire department outside of Minneapolis.
[7:29]And Ripley is taught how to search for people in the fire.
[7:34]And along the way becomes friends with his dog trainer, a girl named Samantha who has anxiety disorder and is afraid.
[7:45]She's a gorgphobic. And so Ripley sort of becomes a service dog for her and then also works at the fire department.
[7:52]And then there's a lot of conflict there, which is going to be Kenny B both.
[7:57]And then there's a person in the fire department, a lieutenant who says, no dogs should be out in the fire department.
[8:03]So it's a, there's a lot going on that's not just venture, but then there's just like as was true with Zeus, another dog to the perfect novel.
[8:13]Ripley is a story that has a lot of adventure, a lot of action, if you will.
[8:18]Interesting. So what happened in your firehouse? Did you get the dog to help out?
[8:23]I, I was like the most junior person in the fire department, none of my ideas were considered to be of any value whatsoever.
[8:31]They, they saw me basically is there to wash the dishes. And that's that was by most valuable function as far as they were concerned.
[8:39]But that is a good idea. Maybe your book will change the way they do everything.
[8:43]Maybe it will in that be great. I mean, we use, we use dogs and search rescue all the time at the idea of getting a burning building. I don't mean that.
[8:51]Well, then you put the dog at risk too. I don't know. I see the pros and cons, but that's really amazing. And then the next one, the three dogs.
[9:00]Oh, let's talk about my three dogs because so let's go all the way back to the origins, which was a dog's purpose.
[9:07]And that trilogy, a dog's purpose, a dog's journey, a dog's promise, those dogs introduced people to the idea that we could have a first person wonderful.
[9:18]Sorry, keep buzzing at my books.
[9:20]We could have a, a story told from the point of view of the dog.
[9:24]And that furthermore, we would reflect on how dogs feel about things, how they experience the world.
[9:30]A lot of people found it to be a unique experience to read a dog's purpose.
[9:34]And I always wanted to write about multiple dogs because dog packs are such an interesting dynamic.
[9:42]And their, and dynamic is the perfect word because they change all the time.
[9:47]And we tend to think of a pack as being like a corporation. It's very static.
[9:51]And there's a, there's a dog entire and then there's the vice dog.
[9:55]And then there's the secretary dog and then the treasurer dog.
[9:58]And always that's how we would report.
[10:00]denies a dog pack, dog packs are completely different.
[10:03]In this particular novel, my three dogs,
[10:06]the alpha dog is the Australian shepherd in the front.
[10:10]And Luna is sort of his best friend.
[10:14]She's a Jack Russell Terrier, wicked smart.
[10:17]Jack Russells are known to be just cunning and keen
[10:20]and really smart.
[10:22]And then they wind up adopting this very goofy
[10:25]laboratory.
[10:26]This is a story of these three dogs in a pack
[10:29]that gets separated by humans because their owner
[10:32]is an accident.
[10:34]And they don't know.
[10:35]They don't know what's going on.
[10:36]All they know is one day he doesn't come home.
[10:39]And he's an acoma.
[10:40]And so people trying to think of the best thing to do,
[10:42]they separate the dogs and adopt them out
[10:44]to different families.
[10:46]And the Australian shepherd wants to herd the pack back
[10:50]together.
[10:51]That's what an Australian shepherd would want to do.
[10:53]So from their point of view, this is a story about three
[10:57]dogs separated and who want to get back together.
[11:01]And then they want to go find their person
[11:03]because they know something is not right.
[11:05]It's very close to the original voice of a dog's
[11:10]purpose.
[11:11]It's for those fans.
[11:12]It's for somebody who longs for a dog experience
[11:16]and plot spoiler, the dog doesn't die in the end.
[11:20]Good to know.
[11:21]Oh my gosh, I can't wait to read that.
[11:23]That sounds amazing.
[11:24]Is that already going to be a movie?
[11:25]What is that with all the film books to film extensions
[11:29]of all the brands and everything?
[11:30]Well, COVID put the brakes on everything.
[11:34]And then we had a couple of industry strikes.
[11:36]And then we had industry contractions.
[11:40]During all of this, we've had several books in play.
[11:44]We've got one where we can't tell you,
[11:47]but we've got a deal to make the movie.
[11:50]And I think we'll start shooting in February.
[11:55]A lot of things would have to go wrong for that
[11:56]not to happen, but it's not announced yet.
[11:58]So I have to keep it.
[11:59]OK, I won't say anything.
[12:01]But yeah, all of my books that are dog themed,
[12:05]it's really hard to name a dog movie that has failed.
[12:09]They're usually money makers because people like the idea
[12:13]of having a main character that's lovable, optimistic,
[12:16]happy, and loyal, and offers unconditional love.
[12:21]I mean, people movies can't do that, but dog movies can't.
[12:24]Interesting.
[12:26]It's funny, a couple of years ago, I met Garth Stein
[12:29]at a lunch someone else was having.
[12:30]And he was talking about how when he tried
[12:32]to sell the art of racing in the rain from a dog's perspective,
[12:36]his agent thought he was crazy.
[12:38]And then nobody would represent him.
[12:40]And he was like laughed out of the room everywhere.
[12:42]And people decided he had lost his mind.
[12:45]And he was like, no, there's something here.
[12:47]I really like it.
[12:48]And so he didn't give up.
[12:50]And of course, it became a huge hit as well.
[12:52]Tell me about that.
[12:53]And is there any pushback now on different points of view?
[12:58]I mean, I know there's so many books now from somebody.
[13:00]It seems obvious in retrospect,
[13:01]like, of course this would work.
[13:02]But doing it doesn't feel obvious necessarily.
[13:06]Well, here's my Garth Stein story.
[13:08]So he got his agent, he got his book out,
[13:10]and then went to auction, and I had no idea.
[13:14]Six months before my fully written book,
[13:16]it wasn't a proposal.
[13:17]It was the novel, was taken out by my agent.
[13:21]And called me and said, I've never in the history
[13:23]of my relationship with my clients said this,
[13:25]but I'm going to say it to you.
[13:27]I can guarantee you, I'm going to sell this book.
[13:31]And then every publisher said, oh,
[13:35]there's already a dog point of view book, and so...
[13:39]Oh my gosh.
[13:40]You know, we can't have more than one of those.
[13:43]And so this thing languished for two years.
[13:46]And it was a tiny imprinted epic mill,
[13:50]where a new hit her picked it up and said,
[13:51]I think this could be a good project
[13:54]with that finally broke the ice.
[13:56]So, and I don't understand why I don't see more dogs
[13:59]and movies and read more dogs and books.
[14:02]I mean, some 77% of Americans either have a dog
[14:07]or have had a dog that makes dogs
[14:11]a pretty ubiquitous presence in the lives of all of us.
[14:15]Yes.
[14:16]Wow.
[14:17]Well, sorry, I didn't realize
[14:18]that was he had blocked the sale.
[14:21]I guess, but it had taken him so long to get there
[14:24]that I don't know, it's, I don't know, things just worked out.
[14:27]Never had the honor of meeting him.
[14:29]But if I do, there's certainly no hard feelings.
[14:33]I just think it just shows how people think
[14:35]when they were like, and the same thing has happened
[14:37]with movies, by the way.
[14:38]A dog's purpose, a dog's journey came out
[14:42]and a dog's way home came out.
[14:43]And then people are like,
[14:44]that's it, people don't want to see any more dog movies.
[14:46]And we couldn't even get a meeting.
[14:48]And then a little movie called Rescue by Ruby
[14:52]was a big hit for one of the streamers.
[14:54]I think Netflix and then all of a sudden they're like,
[14:56]where's your next dog project going to come from?
[14:58]Would that producer call us?
[15:00]And that's why we're in business with that producer
[15:03]and we believe we're gonna have a movie going any day now.
[15:06]Wow.
[15:07]I mean, I love those movies.
[15:08]Like I could watch, I have watched your movies.
[15:11]I would watch all of these a million times.
[15:14]And there's something so uniting as a family
[15:17]to watch a movie about the dog
[15:19]because I feel like a dog is,
[15:21]we all feel like the dog is ours personally
[15:24]and also collectively.
[15:25]And there are no other books or movies
[15:28]that quite happened to that joint experience
[15:32]and joint love that's not someone else
[15:34]that within the family, which is complicated.
[15:36]This is just such a pure love.
[15:38]So anyway, I think they're all wrong.
[15:40]So I think I said flood the market with more.
[15:43]It's my, let's flood the market.
[15:45]Let's flood the market.
[15:46]I think it'll be fine.
[15:47]There's an effort.
[15:48]There are enough outlets for it.
[15:50]One thing that resonates and gives me
[15:53]a sort of goosebumps when I read the books
[15:55]and even now Catherine's new book and the movie, of course,
[15:59]this idea that dogs come back and that people come back
[16:02]and why are you so convinced of this?
[16:06]And like, how do we know?
[16:08]How do we know any of it?
[16:09]I want to believe it.
[16:10]I really do and I feel convinced
[16:13]when I read the books and all that,
[16:16]but then I don't know.
[16:18]How do we know?
[16:20]Well, I'm glad you brought that up.
[16:22]Because I'll wave this book at you.
[16:24]This is called, I'm still here.
[16:26]It's on purpose forever.
[16:28]Wait, I have that one too.
[16:30]Yes, I just, you know, I read this as well
[16:32]and it was like near tears, but yes.
[16:35]This is a book that Catherine and my dog tuck
[16:37]are wrote together and it talks about
[16:39]the eternal nature of love
[16:41]and it talks about how a dog is still here with us.
[16:44]Based on an absolute faith that Catherine and I both have,
[16:51]that dogs and people that you love
[16:55]don't really leave us, that something remains with us,
[17:00]something that we can reach out for.
[17:01]And it goes all the way back
[17:02]to that original story I told her in the car about,
[17:05]a dog's love is there for you
[17:07]and it might even be the same dog coming back to you.
[17:11]I just believe in the eternal nature of love
[17:15]and I believe that when we have a dog,
[17:19]that that dog's final thoughts are a true worry
[17:25]that if we don't have any other dogs,
[17:27]that we're going to be dogless.
[17:29]And I think a dog is so concerned about that
[17:33]and so just absolutely convinced
[17:36]that we need to have a dog in our lives,
[17:39]that they might come back to us just to spare us
[17:42]the grief of not having our dog.
[17:45]So yeah, I mean, it's not written anywhere.
[17:50]You can't, I've not found it in the Bible or anything,
[17:53]but it's just really my belief that this strong love
[17:57]that we have with our dogs, with our other pets,
[18:01]with our parents is a bond that doesn't break
[18:03]just because one of them passes away.
[18:06]And so, I mean, I was assuming from the books
[18:09]and everything that you believe in signs
[18:12]and watching the wagging tale of the dog
[18:15]or watching another dog turn in the same way
[18:18]and all that, like the image is sort of imprinted forever.
[18:21]I like to believe in signs as well
[18:22]and I feel them sometimes,
[18:25]but then the rational part of my brain
[18:27]wants to talk me out of it.
[18:28]Do you feel like you're seeing signs a lot?
[18:30]Not to get to, you know, woo-oo in this conversation,
[18:33]but what proof do you feel you get?
[18:37]So I love the fact that you said
[18:39]that the rational part of your brain.
[18:41]And yes, we all have that rational part,
[18:43]but on the other hand, what's rational about love?
[18:46]Why is it rational for these dogs
[18:49]to be so devoted to us and for us,
[18:52]to be so devoted to them?
[18:55]That's not rational.
[18:56]Turns out we're dabbling in a topic
[18:59]in a subject in a world
[19:02]where rationality isn't exactly the standard
[19:05]by which everything is measured.
[19:07]These are feelings.
[19:08]These are inexplicable emotions
[19:11]in terms of where does love come from within you
[19:15]that you've got it?
[19:16]Not just for dog, but for people.
[19:19]You can rationalize it and say, well,
[19:21]I love my parents because they take care of me
[19:24]and they raise me, but is that why you love your parents?
[19:27]You have a deep love for your parents
[19:29]that is in many ways, you know,
[19:32]fraught with what happens when you become an adult
[19:35]and you're a different person than maybe
[19:37]what your parents wanted or whatever.
[19:39]And yet that love is still there.
[19:41]How is that rational?
[19:43]So I do believe you're absolutely right.
[19:45]You can say, yeah, this can't possibly be true.
[19:48]How could a dog come back to me?
[19:50]But I have had so many people come up to me
[19:52]and say, my dog noodles is exactly my dog squiggles.
[19:57]And the hoop has to.
[20:00]and I'll think, well, you at first off,
[20:02]I need to give you a book on dog names
[20:04]because this is the worst dog I've ever heard.
[20:07]But aside from that, yeah, maybe you're exactly right.
[20:12]What you're feeling is that this dog is the same dog,
[20:17]knows the same things.
[20:18]I didn't think there's something too bad.
[20:21]Okay, I'm gonna go with it.
[20:23]It's comforting, it's comforting to believe in things
[20:26]that are the way you want them to be
[20:28]and not dissuade yourself.
[20:30]So I'm gonna go with that.
[20:32]How do you keep coming up with so many ideas?
[20:35]And how long does it take for you to write each book?
[20:37]Like what does that whole process look like?
[20:40]Because you are so prolific.
[20:42]Thank you.
[20:43]My process is both mechanical and inspirational.
[20:47]The inspiration is that I just,
[20:50]I live in a movie multiplex in my mind.
[20:53]I always have multiple stories going.
[20:56]And that has been true for so long.
[20:58]I don't remember a time when I didn't have a story
[21:01]going in my head.
[21:02]I don't remember a time where I had trouble remembering
[21:06]what was real.
[21:06]The biggest, this really manifests itself
[21:09]when I'm watching a movie.
[21:11]And I realized the first time I saw the movie,
[21:13]I wrote scenes in my head that I wanted for that movie.
[21:17]And I'm waiting for those scenes.
[21:18]And when they don't show up,
[21:19]I think how did that happen?
[21:20]And it's happened enough that I've come to realize,
[21:22]oh no, I did that, that was here.
[21:24]That was my brain, that was crazy.
[21:28]So I just always have stories in my head.
[21:31]And the hard part is deciding which one people would want
[21:34]to hear.
[21:36]I have a very small group of friends
[21:37]that I can bounce ideas off of.
[21:39]And even if none of them like it,
[21:41]even if my agent doesn't like it,
[21:43]that doesn't mean I shouldn't write it.
[21:45]If I feel called to, I'm going to write it.
[21:47]And then I've been writing books,
[21:50]literally my first book was in college,
[21:52]which was a terrible book,
[21:53]but it was my first.
[21:55]And I have taught myself a method now.
[21:57]So the other part's mechanical.
[22:00]Once I've decided on a story, I start outlining.
[22:03]And I will spend months outlining a novel.
[22:06]And I'll go through several drafts of that outline.
[22:09]But when I'm done, I have an exact blueprint.
[22:12]I have thought of everything.
[22:14]And I just sit down and do the easy part,
[22:17]which is the fill in the words.
[22:18]And then I rewrite it, rewrite it, rewrite it.
[22:22]I rewrite every book seven times before I submit it.
[22:25]And then it comes back from the publisher with notes
[22:27]and I rewrite it the eighth time.
[22:28]And then it comes back again with a copyright.
[22:31]Rewrite it again.
[22:32]And then it comes back with a call first, past pages now.
[22:35]But I don't know why they call them that.
[22:37]And I'm like, this is exhausting.
[22:39]When do I get rid of this thing?
[22:40]But that's the process now.
[22:42]And I've gotten, I've just gotten really well-practiced at it.
[22:45]I've written, I wrote nine books before I sold my tenth book.
[22:50]And I've written a couple more since then
[22:52]that have not been published.
[22:53]So I may be written 11 plus the 30, 37 plus there's another one
[22:59]that's already done and coming out next year.
[23:02]So 48 for nine, 56 books, 57, I've written 57 books.
[23:07]So I've come up with a formula.
[23:10]I've come up with a way to apply myself.
[23:12]I track everything on a spreadsheet.
[23:13]It's very, it's not very romantic.
[23:16]But it's just because I've got a schedule.
[23:18]I've got a deadline.
[23:19]And if I want to keep writing these other projects
[23:21]that nobody bought, I have to have time to do that as well.
[23:24]So I just, I just stick to my routine.
[23:28]Wow.
[23:28]And when do you get the humor out?
[23:30]You know, with dogs, it's so easy to pull humor in.
[23:33]And my three dogs, the humor, I think,
[23:36]comes from this labritoodle showing up
[23:40]and just disrupting the life of this ossy who just
[23:44]wants everything to be under control and gets really
[23:47]irritated when it's not.
[23:49]And I think that's pretty funny.
[23:52]And in Ripley Fire Station five,
[23:54]I just always thought that the way that firefighters
[23:57]talked to each other in the station was hilarious.
[23:59]You know, they just say a lot of really funny stuff.
[24:01]And so there's a lot of humor there
[24:02]because I just sort of channeled what it was like
[24:04]to listen to these guys talk to each other,
[24:07]always very derisive, always very sarcastic.
[24:10]But there for each other, there was a fire there
[24:13]where they were to save each other.
[24:15]So do you feel like after all these books,
[24:16]do you still have to be involved in the marketing
[24:19]of all the books?
[24:19]Like does it ever end?
[24:21]No, no, it does ever end.
[24:24]It is absolutely, and it's a real time drain.
[24:28]I would much rather just crank out books
[24:30]and let other people handle the marketing.
[24:33]No, but every single day, every single day,
[24:35]I have to do something associated with marketing.
[24:38]Today, I went to the closed office
[24:40]and spent an hour there with boxes of book plates
[24:43]that are going out to various bookstores.
[24:46]I just, that's just what I do.
[24:48]And it's okay.
[24:50]There's a lot of marketing stuff that I really like.
[24:52]I like doing this with you.
[24:53]Thank you.
[24:54]I especially when it's professional and warm and fun
[24:56]and friendly, but I will say it for a while.
[24:58]I'm like, when do I get to write?
[25:00]I really wanted to sit down and write.
[25:02]Interesting.
[25:03]And have you noticed not to get to in the weeds of publishing
[25:07]but as your career has evolved,
[25:09]is there anything that has changed so much
[25:12]that you're really happy about or things
[25:14]that have gone in direction?
[25:15]You're not so happy about.
[25:18]Well, you know, the explosion of self-publishing
[25:20]means that authors very often get drowned out
[25:24]by all the similar books.
[25:26]Here's an example.
[25:27]I was going to write a book about a dog, a ward dog.
[25:31]I went to write a book, right?
[25:32]The story of a dog who goes overseas on a military mission
[25:36]and what happens.
[25:37]And I had a good idea for a story.
[25:39]I knew I was going to have to do a lot of research
[25:41]because unlike my son, I've never been in the military.
[25:44]But there's lots of stories out there.
[25:47]I thought I could figure this out.
[25:49]And then I went to a book festival in Savannah, Georgia.
[25:53]And this one was open to self-published people.
[25:56]And I started walking, they closed off city streets
[25:59]and I started walking down the city street
[26:00]and one display after another was for that exact book,
[26:05]a war dog.
[26:06]And maybe they're all wonderful books.
[26:08]I didn't have time to really read it.
[26:11]There's just a way I could separate myself from the pack.
[26:15]And furthermore, it's for me to write about the war
[26:18]when I've never been in one.
[26:20]Then that seemed that seemed wrong.
[26:22]So the rise of self-publishing has been,
[26:27]I have to be much more competitive to figure out
[26:30]ways to brand and stand out.
[26:32]And that's a little exhausting.
[26:34]I have an advantage because I've got a couple of movies
[26:36]under my belt and a recognizable brand.
[26:40]And I speak to about 50 schools a year, elementary schools.
[26:45]So the kids know who I am.
[26:46]And that's a constantly refreshing audience.
[26:49]So that helps a lot too.
[26:51]Interesting.
[26:52]Well, do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[26:56]Well, wow.
[26:57]Yeah, I always say, yeah, don't do it.
[26:59]But I actually think my advice would be this.
[27:03]Don't do what I did, which was to say I'm really
[27:07]given author.
[27:08]But I'm also going to have a day job
[27:10]where I could have a career, and a car, and marriage,
[27:14]and children, and houses, and vacations.
[27:18]If I had to do it all over again, I'd sit down with fresh
[27:22]out of college brews.
[27:23]And I'd say, if you're really serious about this,
[27:26]what you need to do is get a job as a barista or something
[27:30]that's not a career that has a definite start
[27:33]or time and an end time.
[27:34]Where you're not marching up a corporate ladder,
[27:36]you're just paying the bills, and you're not living large,
[27:41]and you're certainly not going to have a girlfriend.
[27:44]But that is a matter, because you're writing,
[27:47]and that's how you're going to get what you really
[27:49]want out of life.
[27:50]And I did that.
[27:52]I had the career.
[27:53]I worked with General Motors.
[27:54]So it's executive.
[27:55]I had children.
[27:57]I had a house.
[27:58]I had all of that.
[27:59]And it just meant that I was distracted from 18.
[28:04]You can't have a 60 to 80 hour a week job
[28:07]and be a novelist with any kind of output.
[28:11]Well, we actually, because I'm a publisher now, too,
[28:13]we acquired a book recently by a former Starbucks
[28:16]for Easter, who's now a teacher.
[28:18]There you go.
[28:19]Yeah, there you go.
[28:20]She did it.
[28:21]She did it.
[28:23]Bruce, thank you so much.
[28:25]I hope you're going to do an event at our store
[28:26]when your books come out.
[28:27]I hope that's in the works.
[28:28]If not, I have to get that going.
[28:30]I would love it.
[28:30]No, it's on the schedule.
[28:31]I just saw it.
[28:32]Great.
[28:32]OK, good.
[28:33]It's for my three knocks.
[28:35]OK, perfect.
[28:36]Yay, my three dogs.
[28:38]Oh, my gosh, so excited to read it.
[28:40]I've read so much of your work.
[28:41]I'm such a fan, as you know.
[28:42]I'm almost embarrassed by my sort of adulation here.
[28:45]But anyway, thank you so much.
[28:46]And thank you for sharing your journey.
[28:48]I found that so interesting.
[28:49]So thanks.
[28:50]Thank you.
[28:51]And I hope you're looking for your dog,
[28:53]because the commentary that we're seeing
[28:56]in the dog is when is this conversation going to end?
[28:59]Yeah, she's not into it.
[29:03]This guy doesn't know anything about dogs.
[29:05]No.
[29:07]All right.
[29:08]Well, thank you so much.
[29:09]And I look forward to seeing you soon.
[29:11]OK, bye.
[29:15]Thanks for listening.
[29:15]Two moms don't have time to read books.
[29:17]If you love it, please leave a review.
[29:19]And follow us on social at city Owens and at city readers.