Joanna "JoJo" Levesque, OVER THE INFLUENCE: A Memoir
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[0:42]Joanna JoJo Lavesque is the author of Over the Influence, a memoir which actually hit the New York Times bestseller list in its first week out.
[0:51]JoJo is a chart-topping and award-winning singer, songwriter, actress, and first-time author.
[0:57]At just 13 years old, JoJo burst onto the scene with her self-titled debut album.
[1:02]The breakout smash, leave, get out, made her the youngest ever solo artist to have a debut number one single in the U.S.
[1:09]That album went on to sell over 4 million copies and became the singer's first platinum record, which she followed with a string of additional accomplishments, including another number one single, too little too late, and another platinum album, The High Road.
[1:21]Since then, she has released several critically acclaimed studio albums, EP's and mix tapes, and started her own label, Clover Music.
[1:28]In 2020, JoJo's song with PJ Morton, say so, won a Grammy award for Best R&B song.
[1:35]JoJo has also appeared in movies such as Aquamarine and RV, opposite Robin Williams.
[1:41]She is currently reprising her role as Satine in Broadway's Tony Award-winning Mulan Rouge, The Musical, developing an original piece of musical theater, and curing up to release new music later this fall.
[1:52]Welcome, JoJo. Thank you so much for coming. On mom's, don't have time to read books to discuss your amazing memoir over the influence.
[1:59]Thank you so much.
[2:01]Oh, my gosh, you took me on such a ride. I feel like I have whiplash from learning so much so fast about the music industry, which I didn't really know much about.
[2:12]And when it's like being on the other side of that, and all of the deals and the pitfalls, and I know that there were so many layers to the book.
[2:19]But the business of the industry part, I also found really fascinating. Talk a little bit about why you decided to start, why you decide to write a memoir now, and then I wanted to hear a little bit about your ruminations on the industry at large.
[2:34]So this year is 20 years since I put out my first album, and I started to think about how crazy that is at 33 to say that I've been doing the same thing for 20 years.
[2:45]Not the same thing, a lot of different things in this time, but I started to think about the way that I frame my life and the way that we can look at the same thing from different angles.
[2:55]I used to feel, I think, very upset and resentful about certain things that happened in my career or different challenges that came up.
[3:05]And instead, over the years, I've chosen to look at those things as exactly what was supposed to happen, you know, hinge points that had me pivot to a new direction and get creative again and say, instead of being upset, what creative solutions can we come up with here and stuff.
[3:22]So I love reading memoirs and autobiographies and I love reading about people who I know and people who I don't know who might have an interesting story to share.
[3:32]So in that spirit, I was like, do I have the audacity to write, you know, right now to write about my life? And it really did feel like the time to do it.
[3:42]I wanted to share in a different way than through song. You know, songs can convey a lot in three minutes or however long they are, but I was interested in trying something else and something a deeper way to connect with people.
[3:57]I think connection is something that I'm most interested in right now.
[4:01]Well, you can tell the value and the depth of all of your relationships in the book as well and friendships and family and all of that. I mean, there's so much heart and soul just like spilled into these pages.
[4:13]It was it was such a raw and yet analytic look at so many different things all at once. Like I really found it to be such a such a journey.
[4:24]Oh, I mean, I know I thought I was editing it with my editor Carrie Napolitano. I was like, what to keep in there. You know, I wrote way more than I needed to and then distilled it back from there.
[4:36]But it is raw, like you said, for sure, because I am not. I haven't spent my whole life writing memoirs. This is my first time doing something like this, but I don't need it to be in my own voice, especially after my experience with being told and being conditioned.
[4:52]I think to trust other people's opinions and expertise over my own. And when you're young, that makes sense, but at a certain point, you really have to find your own voice.
[5:02]And I think the title over the importance speaks to just being like, this is a new chapter, a new way of being for me of saying no exactly as I am right now.
[5:13]It's good enough. It's going to, you know, it's, it's going to reach who it's meant to reach and maybe that's just me even so.
[5:21]Well, what I mean, I love that place of, I mean, it's like watching you grow up and having such a mature view of like everything that's happened and you could be angry.
[5:31]I mean, reading all the, you know, plot twists of your life and the way you were managed and my husband and I were listening to one of your songs. I was like, actually, this is not the song she wanted to come out at this time.
[5:41]Like, they made her do this song just so you know, her voice was actually a little bit different and she could have been on Nickelodeon and all the stuff.
[5:49]So, you know, in a way, you represent what it is to be sort of upon in a giant industry out of your control and how do you with the help of just your mom at the beginning and Katie now and, you know, how do you navigate when everyone is telling you what you're supposed to do and what's going to work and how do you not like assert what you want.
[6:13]And how do you, you know, I don't know, I found it really, really fascinating and also a cautionary tale for others in many who can get swept up and not believing or always deferring to other people when you really know inside what is what's going to work, right.
[6:29]I do, I think we all do have that internal guidance system within us, but some are just more disconnected than others, you know, things can suppress that or just, you know, kind of snuff out that voice.
[6:44]And it's been a process of me trying to get back in touch with listening to those, those guidances within myself as opposed to being externally led.
[6:54]And so I, that's what I think can be one of the negatives of starting out so young, you don't have your sense of self developed and you have a mushy brain, of course, you know, that's, I was.
[7:07]at my New York book signing, Dr. Jeremy Nobel came and spoke and was talking about the connection with like sense of self and loneliness.
[7:17]Like that's, that's what he, that's what he teaches about at Harvard, I believe.
[7:21]And that's what I think can be really dangerous like, like I said, and just to your personal development is that it's going to be stunted because you don't learn how to rely on yourself for certain things.
[7:37]And that self trust and that authenticity is everything I think to living a happy life and having genuine connections with people and being a part of society and contributing and all that stuff.
[7:53]I just think that those seeds of confusion were planted in me.
[7:57]Pretty young, and even though my mom was managing me and she, she was like, she wanted me to follow my heart, but I was like, no, I think we need to follow the opinions of these people that know better than us in this area because they've had success.
[8:11]And from a young age, I think I was kind of savvy in that regard and it's kind of, it's weird, but I'm, through writing this book, it was interesting to look back and see patterns of relinquishing control.
[8:25]And until, until it took me, you know, 15 almost 20 years to be like, wait, I'm an authority in this area now, like, I know just as much as not more than these people that I was looking to, certainly at this point.
[8:39]The book is not just about the journey through contracts and whatever that was just whatsoever that, you know, taught me a lot.
[8:46]But really, the heart of the book is about your relationships and your relationship with your mom and how I'm, you know, she was depressed for a long time.
[8:56]So I know how you had to handle that and your career at the same time, which was heartbreaking. I mean, it's heartbreaking at any age to deal with that, but especially in the midst of all of that and the loss of your dad, which just like had my eyes welling up because.
[9:12]And then your friend, I mean, it's like you, and then being cheated on eight million times, I'm like, when is this girl getting?
[9:19]No, I mean, I know you have even have fame and all that and that's lovely and everything and success in that way, but when you feel like you just keep losing things that you love that is so hard.
[9:32]But I think that's so many people's experience and that's why I didn't want to just talk about career accolades or things like that.
[9:40]Like, yeah, my story is a music industry cautionary tale and success story, but it's also very much, you know, about relationships like you said. So I couldn't tell, I couldn't share about my own life without bringing that into it.
[9:56]And also just like the timing of things and sharing like.
[10:00]I felt like life was going to unfold this way and then this traumatic event happened, or I lost this person, or there was cheating, or whatever, and then that sent me on a different path.
[10:11]And I think that that's how my experience has been. But I think that's, as people are sharing with me what this book brought up for them, it's really been cool and also like, damn, I'm sorry that you had to go through that.
[10:25]You know, people are telling me that they relate to a lot of these, these themes and I hope it makes people think about, you know, framing their life because there was periods of time where I was just really, I was like, why does this keep happening to me, you know, or what.
[10:40]But the truth is like, I think I was creating a lot of chaos as well, not with, you know, people passing on obviously, but I think I was in so much pain that then I created more pain.
[10:52]Well, I don't know, by the time we got to the engagement, I was just like, are you kidding me?
[10:58]I know, me too, honestly, I thought that was going to be my happy ending. I'm like, oh, I've made it like, I deserve this. This is great. Oh my God, you know, my prince charming and, but life unfolds in ways that you never expect.
[11:11]And, but how amazing that after that, I mean, it sent me on a path now I'm living in New York and I'm living a new dream, you know what I mean. So that that's kind of how I, I'm grateful.
[11:24]I really am for the way that everything has happened. It's just so weird and funny to look back on it all.
[11:31]And it's kind of cool that because I have this time capsule now that I can share with people.
[11:36]Just one paragraph in particular with the loss of your friend or can I lay on the bell?
[11:42]Yes, I lost a friend. I mean, I know you're probably sick of everybody saying I lost this. I lost that. I lost.
[11:47]No, I'm not. I lost my best friend on 9-11 who was my college roommate. This is years ago, but I I don't know when I read about other people losing friends. I know that everything is different, but that unique loss of losing someone so young and the same
[12:01]age I was 25. Anyway, can I just read this passage, you know, now I'm old, old and gray. Well, thanks to my color is not great, but whatever.
[12:09]You're young hot and hip. I mean, I'm seeing you look very cool.
[12:13]You said she had lives to touch songs to make trips to take. We had plans to raise our future kids together and protect them all from the pitfalls we'd learned and grown from.
[12:23]Those dreams were now suspended in time. We wouldn't get the chance to grow old together. She'd be forever young losing someone your age who you assume you'll have around for the rest of your life fundamentally changes you.
[12:34]How is this person who was sharing takeout pasta with you on your couch a couple weeks ago just gone.
[12:41]It was a harsh reminder that aging is a privilege and life rarely goes the way we plan it. We are mortal and fragile and tomorrow is never promised no matter how much we deserve it.
[12:52]I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about there.
[12:56]I do and I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry for your loss. That is really crazy.
[13:02]Well, you've wrote about it really beautiful and I know this will touch the hearts of so many people.
[13:07]You also have another strain of the book about food and health, which I also found really fascinating how food and what it can do to you and taking care of your body.
[13:19]Right leads your dad into one direction that you felt sort of powerless to pull him back and then at the same time you sort of abusing your own body and trying to you know manage the late night binge eating and you know the expectations on your own body and then going into the uber wellness category for a while with the yoga and all that and juicing.
[13:40]The whole thing which a phase you know for so many people. Yeah, where do you like how do you look back on all of that now and where are you in terms of feeling good in your body and all of that.
[13:54]Yeah, it's such a journey of experimentation of like you know how what are my values and what makes me feel good.
[14:02]I will say that losing my dad and seeing him be trapped inside his own body. I mean that's what I felt like he was you know he was so much spirit and so much soul but he really couldn't move.
[14:15]You know he wasn't able to go out and do things and have the freedom of just walking through the city and walking through the airport even and I wanted him to travel with me and I wanted us to go do things together and couldn't.
[14:28]I wanted to you know what I mean but because he was unhealthy you know and he was I think his addiction wasn't just to substances it was also food you know and numbing emotions in different ways.
[14:43]It's a major devastation obviously and a wake up call I think for me to say wow I have one shot with this body that I have and I want to see what it can do I want to be able to.
[15:00]I want to honor it.
[15:02]And my mom has been an amazing example of you know her connection with nature and getting out and moving her body and researching how she could even improve her depression with nutrition and her anxiety and things like that.
[15:18]And so she and I kind of after my dad passed you know that they weren't together but she was deeply affected by it as well because they they made me and we are still you know family in that way.
[15:31]So she and I both got really interested in those things and it was really cool to.
[15:36]Go through this journey of reading and learning with her kind of together and separately and I would say that where I'm out with it is.
[15:46]I think I'm in a balanced place with it like now I just really enjoy moving I really enjoy sweating and really I think that the best exercise is whatever you're going to do you know what I mean so it could be.
[16:05]walking yoga strength training like literally anything you like to dance you like to I'm into it all so over the years I've like acquired a lot of tools that.
[16:16]That can make me feel good and alive and connected and out of my head and into my body because I can spend a lot of time in my head.
[16:23]And I think that yoga specifically is like a great thing for me to connect breath to movement and get into a flow state where I'm not over analyzing things I'm just moving and.
[16:37]And with eating that that binge eating was definitely a big comfort and a big shame in this pattern that I was in for a long time.
[16:46]I think you know it's not like I can say that that'll never come back and be a part but I think that I'm just experiencing a lot of I feel like I'm happy right now and I'm not running from my feelings for a long time I was.
[17:03]not taking the time to feel them I just want to stuff them down so.
[17:08]I feel like the book itself is going to be I mean I know it's just come out it's you know as we're talking but I feel like it's going to be so freeing for you to know that it's all out there and that there's no more hiding and do you feel that way now that it's out.
[17:23]I'm much better at being vulnerable than of trying to uphold something that isn't true and.
[17:34]My fans have you know been like defending me and riding for me so hard and I also wanted them to know some of the things some of the areas in which I contributed to certain things and.
[17:47]I do feel liberated though in in sharing and maybe over sharing you know in some some parts of the book but I was like if I'm going to go for it I'm going to go all the boss the law with this.
[18:00]I love how like self referential you are you know a times when you're like okay I kind of don't want to say all this about somebody I love but I'm just going to go for it so here I go.
[18:10]and then like at the end and you're like here I am and I'm I'm writing the ending and can you believe this and you know it's hard to put it down without being like yes go or.
[18:20]No, I mean it it's like yeah I wanted to like again wait to see what happens next wait tell me more about this latest phase of your life and.
[18:31]And Broadway and like the whole thing that's so excited I always watched you know I'm from New York and like how do these people do this every night and like it's such a physical thing and like emotional and then what they're just going to be like sitting next to someone on the subway you're not going to know what you just did you know.
[18:48]It's such an amazing community and it takes so many people behind the scenes and like there's I've learned so much and I'm so so moved by like all these different productions here on Broadway and just musical theater in general because yeah it's like you just.
[19:05]get to experience such a high range of emotion in two and a half hours and I love that it's so fun to get outside myself to to play a different character someone who I can relate to in some ways I'm playing for team.
[19:20]and it's been so cool and it came into my life at the time well actually I I started out I was like feeling like I wanted to be back on the East Coast I feeling like I wanted to reconnect with my roots and.
[19:36]I just kind of put it out into the universe sounds like.
[19:39]I asked my agent is there any musical theater opportunities you think because that's how I started actually and.
[19:47]and so happened that they were looking for someone and.
[19:53]and then you know I got to do it for the first time last year and it makes me feel like a little kid.
[20:00]feel like I've finally found a sense of community because we're all little weirdos just in adult
[20:06]bodies now. And it's just so much fun. It is hard. It definitely is hard work. And I actually
[20:15]didn't know what that schedule was like until I became a part of it. Like when I would come see
[20:20]Broadway shows or go to a show in the West End in London or wherever a regional production,
[20:25]I had no idea that we're doing it eight times a week. I was like, these people are so good. There's
[20:29]no way. They must be just doing it like on the weekend or whatever. And I just didn't put it
[20:34]together. I'm like, oh my god, this is really, I've been told that it's like, you know, the nine to five
[20:39]of entertainment is low-key. And but it is so fun. And I really have come to love the whole company.
[20:48]And it's a world that I realize that I really want to continue to be a part of and develop things
[20:56]behind the scenes too as a producer, as a writer. And I just have so much respect for the people
[21:04]that do this. And I'm having fun with it. So amazing. So amazing. Well, when you look back on
[21:12]everything and as you sort of chart the course forward, and obviously none of us know what's
[21:16]coming next for us. But, you know, there's so much in your story that's inherited trauma from,
[21:22]you know, the car accident that your mom was in. And like all the things that everyone in
[21:29]your family before you has gone through and held onto and then your own past sort of on top of it
[21:35]and being able to sort of rise from the ashes, if you will, right? And just like steady yourself,
[21:42]is there something? Do you have a mantra? Like, is there, is there anything that you take with you and
[21:47]you say every day? Like, okay, this is what I'm, this is how I'm getting out of bed.
[21:52]I mean, I've had many different mantras. I think throughout my life, definitely the only way out is
[21:59]through is something that I think about a lot. Be here now is another thing because I'm constantly in
[22:05]the future or in the past. And you know, just kind of one foot in front of the other is,
[22:12]and I think my foundation of growing up in AA with, you know, both my parents being a part of that
[22:18]program, I think about the Serenity Prayer a lot. And I guess that's kind of a mantra. And it's
[22:22]God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things
[22:26]I can and the wisdom to know the difference. I think a lot about wisdom and courage in this chapter
[22:31]moving in like this life chapter of mind moving forward. And now I'm at a place where I feel
[22:37]so just less unfortunate to still be here and to experience a lot of joy. And I want to
[22:48]find ways to give back and to build community and deepen connections with my fans and beyond
[22:58]though and just see how I can give back because I just feel like I have been given so much.
[23:06]That's amazing. Okay, last question. What would you say for girls who have amazing
[23:13]singing voices? Probably not as good as you, but there are a lot of girls out there or boys who
[23:18]have immense talent and they're young and they should take care of it. I know you, you know,
[23:23]you write about not taking care of your voice properly as well on a physical standpoint. But
[23:27]like, what do you say to those future stars or, you know, should they go down this road? Should
[23:32]they wait till they're in college? Like, just do you have, if you could look back essentially
[23:36]to the younger you or the aspiring talent of today, what would you say? I would say
[23:44]just explore your voice because well, I would say also singing is one thing like performing,
[23:50]singing is one thing, being a part of an industry and being a cog in the system is another thing.
[23:55]So ask yourself, you know, what do you really want? Do you want to be famous? Do you want to sing?
[24:01]Just if you can clarify that vision so you don't get whisked around in different directions that
[24:07]don't feel right. And I will say that if you have one person who believes in you, that is
[24:12]something that is so, so priceless. You know, I had my mom and she gave me the support that I needed
[24:21]to go off into the world and follow my passions and she made that possible. And so don't
[24:30]take those people who believe in you for granted, they're everything. And I would say in today's
[24:36]day and age, like if you're, if you're not on TikTok and Instagram, you should be and you should
[24:41]be putting up videos. You should be sharing your gifts with people. And I do believe in that
[24:46]like build it and they will come type thing. I think that, you know, just this is the time we live in
[24:52]and if your gifts are meant to be shared, don't be afraid. Try not to think yourself out of it. Just
[24:58]enjoy your gifts and experiment. Play with them. And play with other people too who, you know,
[25:06]if like put together your singer and you know musicians or you know producers or whatever,
[25:12]like collaborate with them. I think that that is so important too. And I think we grow so much
[25:18]when we, when we co-write or when we collaborate in different ways. So that's my long-winded answer
[25:24]about what I would encourage. Long-winded is perfectly welcome. I'm totally impressed. I also think
[25:32]you have a great writing voice as someone who like you consumes memoirs, you know,
[25:37]frantically. I love them coming from you. I so appreciate that. Thank you. I mean, keep writing and
[25:43]keep sharing. And, you know, I don't know, start a sub stack or something. Like I want to keep reading
[25:48]as you go along. Thank you. Thank you. My, it's something I want to shout out with my uncle,
[25:55]Scott Blagden. He is a published author. He has this book called Dear Life You Stuff. And it is so
[26:01]good. It came out, I don't know, maybe six years ago. And he is the one also that made me,
[26:07]you know, I asked him before. I submitted my like proposal or my, I wrote like a page about
[26:14]my life when I was going out to different publishers and stuff. I was like,
[26:18]you know, what advice do you have for me? And he really held my hands at this process. And he
[26:22]has such a voice as a writer. And he, yes, I know him really well. But I just think it's,
[26:28]his writing style really inspired me also. I think to find my own voice. So I just want to shout him out.
[26:33]He's so great. And I think, well, I feel like I'm so proud of you having finished your book.
[26:38]Like, more right now. So I'm just, yeah, thank you for letting us in. And I'm really,
[26:44]really wishing you all the best. I'm excited for you. And we're, we're life will go.
[26:49]Thank you for taking the time with it. I'm so appreciative. My pleasure.
[26:53]Okay. Thank you. Bye.
[26:58]Thanks for listening to mom's Don't Have Time to read books. If you love it,
[27:02]please leave a review and follow us on social at Civi Owens and at Civi Readers.