A Zibby Summer Reads Pick: Destination—Paris! Glynnis MacNicol, I'M MOSTLY HERE TO ENJOY MYSELF: One Woman's Pursuit of Pleasure in Paris
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.
[0:14]I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company,
[0:19]reading retreats, a bookstore, and more. Learn more at ZippyMedia.com or follow me on social
[0:25]at Zippy Owens or join the community at Zippy Readers.
[0:31]Bliss McNichl is also back on the podcast. This time, for I'm mostly here to enjoy myself,
[0:37]one woman's pursuit of pleasure in Paris. Her previous memoir, which we talked about on this podcast,
[0:43]is No One Tells You This. It was named one of the best books of 2018 by Esquire, The Financial Times,
[0:49]and the CBC, and was a 2019 New York Times paperback wrote pic. McNichl hosted and produced
[0:55]Wilder, a reckoning with the legacy of Laura Ingalls Wilder for iHeart Media. It was an official
[1:00]iHeart Media show by Jo Piazza. It has been named to multiple best of lists. She has written
[1:12]for The New York Times, The Guardian, The Cut, New York Daily News, Town and Country, The Daily Beast,
[1:17]Jen and Elle, among others. Welcome, good as thank you so much for coming back on Moms Don't Have
[1:22]Time to Read Books. This time, I'm your book is, I'm mostly here to enjoy myself,
[1:28]One Woman's Pursuit of Pleasure in Paris. I didn't realize until you held it up. I kind of
[1:33]mashed my shirt to the... You did. You're fainting ignorance of this. But really, it was totally
[1:39]planned. Oh my gosh. And listeners, Gliness is just reminding me, we first talked about her last
[1:48]book six years ago, which seems physically impossible to me because it just does.
[1:54]But yeah. Wow. Amazing. Well, I was so excited when you originally told me you were writing
[2:00]New York, then to get your new book. And I was like, oh, yay. And it's so good. You're really one of
[2:06]the first people I showed the cover to. I think I was at a book event at your home and I
[2:11]only just received it, like received a final approval on it showing you in your kitchen while I was
[2:18]eating your delicious appetizers, probably anytime. And the cover is amazing. The whole thing.
[2:24]The thing I really loved is that you talk about stuff that people probably should be saying
[2:30]and talking about. But you say it in a new way so that we all kind of understand
[2:36]ourselves more, which is what is so powerful to get out of a book. And you like hit the nail in the
[2:42]head. Do you know what I'm talking about? I'm happy to hear it. I think. I mean, having the book
[2:49]out in the world is always an interest. As I'm sure you know, like what you think you've written
[2:54]and what people experience sometimes aligns really closely. And you're like, oh, great. And
[3:01]sometimes people come back and they're like, it feels like not in a bad way. But you're like,
[3:05]oh, I didn't know that necessarily know that that was there. But now that you have, you know,
[3:11]experienced that version of it. I'm thrilled to hear it. So there's definitely a lot of different
[3:17]I joke that the book is about Paris, sex and cheese. And it is. But in addition to that,
[3:23]it is about a number of other things. So it's always an interesting sort of like,
[3:27]worst hack test on where people are in their own lives to be like, to hear what they're getting
[3:32]out of it. So as it's going out in the world, it's been, you know, it's interesting, you know,
[3:38]so what is your elevator pitch? My elevator pitch, which I'm gotten better at,
[3:45]is the book is about five weeks. I spent in Paris in August of 2021 after more than a year of
[3:53]being very, very alone in my little New York apartment, which you can see behind me. I stayed in New York
[4:00]during COVID. And which was fine. And I'm glad that I did. But I've sort of, it's one of those
[4:07]things where you don't realize how difficult something's been until you sort of reach the end of
[4:14]it. And that summer, it all sort of blurs together. But that summer, as you remember, the vaccines
[4:19]came out and people were sort of starting to emerge from their homes in New York. And I was like,
[4:24]oh my goodness, I have not, and I say I wasn't touched. I mean like touch, like as a touch,
[4:30]but also just like literally touch. Like, you know, I was at my building he emptied out. I lived by
[4:34]myself. It was a really rather extreme. And then I got on a plane and I went to Paris and I just,
[4:40]I was thought, I am going to hurl myself into every pleasurable thing. I'm fortunate that I
[4:49]have a group of friends there because I've spent time there over the years. And Paris is a place
[4:56]that does prioritize pleasure. You know, I think even in that moment. And then everyone there was
[5:01]having the same experience. So it was just sort of like a hedonistic five weeks. And when I got back,
[5:08]I kept thinking like we don't have very many stories that prioritize women's pleasure simply
[5:17]as deserving in and of itself. And we don't have a lot of stories for women where the pleasure is
[5:25]not tied directly to, you know, pursuit of marriage or pursuit of parenthood, both of which
[5:32]are great plots. But I was like, I would just want something that just like this is like,
[5:36]you know, like go and have a good time. And also I was 46 turning 47 that summer. I turned 50
[5:41]at the end of this summer. And I thought we definitely don't have stories about women in so-called
[5:47]middle age who are just where everything is enjoyable as opposed to I think the message we often get
[5:54]is like, it's just going to get worse. Your body is changing. And like you're not attractive. And
[5:59]it's not so exciting. And I'm like, your body is changing. And yet, you know, your body's always
[6:04]been changing as a woman. And so I really just wanted to be like, oh, I want everyone else to know
[6:09]that this is possible. That's less of it. That's a long elevator ride. But that is how I would describe
[6:15]that book. We took the Eiffel Tower ride here all the way to the top. Well, I love that. And I
[6:25]love how you start off by telling us like after how difficult and crazy the lockdown was for you,
[6:33]that even something as simple as the flight and the traffic were easy. And I love that. You're
[6:37]like, there's never even seeing next to me. And I could just lay out. And then there's no traffic
[6:41]here. Like as someone who like obsesses over logistics, I was like, no way. 25 minutes to Kennedy,
[6:47]no, how did she do that? When I wrote that down, I was like, I don't, I maybe a dive front of
[6:53]my I said, I don't think you understand for women. Like just everything going bike is like
[6:58]almost pornographic. And like it's just like, oh my god, because I would tell because I was so mesmerized.
[7:04]But like, there was no traffic to JFK. There was like everything went right. And I was so dazzling
[7:09]to me that when I was telling my friends about it, like the reaction on their faces is similar
[7:13]to your tone right now. And I'm like, this is just, this is, people need to know about this.
[7:19]People need to know what it's like when everything goes right for you as a woman. Because again,
[7:25]I don't know that we really, you're so especially women on the move. And when you're traveling,
[7:30]you're so key to be like, is it safe? Is it this? And those are all valid questions. But like,
[7:34]what happens when like it all goes well? I mean, yeah. And I mean, it's a great sort of preamble
[7:41]to all the other things in the book that goes that go well, how did you feel about well,
[7:46]first of all, the level of detail is great. Were you keeping a journal the whole time? Like,
[7:51]how did you get to the whole time? So not the whole time because as I detailed,
[7:57]detail somewhat in the book, I occupied myself. But I do, I do keep, I have kept a journal since
[8:02]I was six years old, which I still have. And so it was sort of like a normal thing to just journal.
[8:08]And one of the reasons it's turned into a book is I had, when I returned and I was back in
[8:14]New York, I'd gone into my journal to look for some detail or some name. And I started rereading it.
[8:19]And I was like, oh, this is great. Which is one of the reasons the book is in present tense,
[8:25]because I thought, oh, I just, I don't want this to be like, oh, this happened in the past.
[8:29]I just wanted to like, the experience that I had of rereading my own journal, like, oh, you're
[8:33]sort of dropped into it again and living along with it. So yeah, some of those,
[8:38]many details are really pulled somewhat directly from my own journals. And then, you know,
[8:44]the longer passages of me sort of thinking out loud or like pulling on history or contacts
[8:49]or definitely aspects of the book that came into it as I was writing the actual book.
[8:55]Yeah, I appreciated like the tour of Paris also. I'm like, I didn't even know this about all
[9:01]these parks. And like, now I need to find this other park. And I've been in the wrong place. What
[9:05]do I have? I'm so glad I captured it too. For myself, when I think about it, because Paris now
[9:13]was packed again, even almost more than it was pre COVID, much, as you know, like New York feels very
[9:18]filled to the brim. And I was so grateful that I'd had enough time in Paris prior to COVID to have
[9:25]some understanding of the city, so that when it was empty, it was so empty that somewhere I was
[9:29]there. That's in this book that I could really appreciate the emptiness of it. And now it is like
[9:37]empty Paris as a fantasy. It's so full of people again. So even I, when I read it sometimes, I'm like,
[9:42]oh, that was great. It's just great to like do up to a park. And that was like the streets were empty.
[9:48]So you should set up like a little roadside stand in Paris when the Olympics comes through the
[9:55]the summer. And just be like, no, no, it was empty. Look, this is good to have her.
[10:00]I mean, that's the summer.
[10:01]I was just there last month.
[10:02]And even the construction isn't really crazy right now.
[10:04]So I am grateful that I, like, inadvertently, this
[10:09]wasn't, I wasn't attempting to sort of,
[10:10]because when I sold the book, I still think
[10:13]that we all were a little uncertain of what things
[10:16]were going to look like.
[10:18]And so I'm just in hindsight now, sort of,
[10:21]with the awareness of where we are right now
[10:22]in terms of travel and et cetera.
[10:25]I'm like, I'm so glad I got all this down
[10:27]because it does feel like a fairly, like,
[10:30]I just captured something that was rare in a fall of us.
[10:34]Yeah.
[10:35]It was a good time, but, yeah,
[10:36]there's something magical about an empty city, really.
[10:39]Yeah.
[10:40]Let's talk about the down and dirty of the book.
[10:44]OK, do you not get embarrassed, right?
[10:47]Like, I get embarrassed even, like, talking, reading,
[10:49]I'm blush, but like, do you not or do you
[10:51]but you plow through and put it out there anyway?
[10:54]I will tell you, when I, there is not
[10:58]insignificant amount of sex in this book,
[11:00]which I felt was important because it was a key component
[11:05]of that summer, but also, I think,
[11:06]because so much of the messaging directed towards women
[11:11]my age is like, oh, you're no longer
[11:13]you've lost your attractiveness.
[11:16]You are, have you reached the point where you're invisible?
[11:19]Like, can you ever expect to have sex again, actually?
[11:23]Like, I just felt, and so because it was such the opposite,
[11:26]it was just like another example of the gaslighting
[11:29]around narratives, around women, in their bodies,
[11:31]and age, and I, and, which was a little bit
[11:34]when I touched on the last book.
[11:35]But no, so when I, I really, when I did the first draft,
[11:39]and you know this, like, first draft,
[11:40]you're sort of puddled in this very,
[11:42]even it's not literally like this.
[11:43]Like, you're in a very safe space with no input,
[11:46]and you can sort of just convince yourself, like,
[11:48]oh, I'm just writing this in my diary,
[11:50]and like, let me get all the details down, which I did.
[11:54]And I sort of thought, oh my God, this is horrific.
[11:56]And so then I compelled myself to hand it over to my editor,
[11:59]Amy Sun, who I love, and she was very encouraging.
[12:04]And by the time, though, the book gets to this point,
[12:07]I think the desire to write well, to write a good story,
[12:13]to make sure that I'm providing the experience
[12:17]that I want the reader to have outweighs any self-consciousness
[12:22]of, I can't believe I'm quite literally
[12:24]revealing myself in this way.
[12:26]You know what I mean?
[12:27]And that instinct, the fear of having bad storytelling
[12:31]or bad writing is much stronger than the fear of shame,
[12:38]or not even just shame, like embarrassment.
[12:40]But the time it gets to this point, it's been seen
[12:44]by so many eyes, and you are sort of the book,
[12:46]and I don't know if you had this experience too,
[12:47]but by the time you get to the point where it's almost published,
[12:49]it's almost like, I mean, I don't have children,
[12:51]but you're putting it out into the world.
[12:53]You have sort of relinquished, it exists
[12:56]as its own things separate from you, almost.
[12:59]Like, I'm obviously still connected to an attached thing.
[13:02]And but it sort of becomes its own thing away from you.
[13:05]So when I went to do the audiobook last month,
[13:07]I did go in thinking, oh, it's just in a few minutes.
[13:11]And my audiobook producer was so wonderful.
[13:15]And what we just had such a good time reading it.
[13:17]And at the end of the day, I was like,
[13:18]I probably could have put in a little bit more sex.
[13:19]I just felt like I had enough distance from her.
[13:24]I was like, ah, this town's great.
[13:26]I think I was like, where's my, where's my,
[13:28]I would have seen pop, I can't even stop and go.
[13:31]You know, he really was very in shock.
[13:36]So no, I think, but it definitely was,
[13:39]but it was definitely like I made a promise
[13:41]and then delivering on the promise
[13:44]and the beginning felt a little like I was anxious about it.
[13:48]And then, you know, you just keep going.
[13:50]You know, you have, you just sort of keep going
[13:53]because you want it to be a good book.
[13:56]I will say, to be friends of mine,
[13:58]friends of mine who are in the book have all read it,
[14:01]obviously before it like over the drafts.
[14:03]But people who read it will come back to me and say like,
[14:06]actually, I think the, the pornography for lack of a better word
[14:10]is around the food.
[14:12]Or I think that the pleasure in it is around, you know,
[14:15]the bike ride.
[14:16]Or I think so.
[14:16]It's very interesting.
[14:18]And there's plenty of people who are like,
[14:19]no, I love the sex, but it's really interesting.
[14:22]I think women, how women experience pleasure, again,
[14:26]is not something that we talk about to any,
[14:31]at any great length.
[14:33]And so the assumption is that we experience pleasure
[14:36]the way men do, like it's all about nudity and sex.
[14:39]But in fact, I really think there's people that like,
[14:41]oh, it's the friendships that I found
[14:43]the most pleasurable part of the book.
[14:44]And I think it's really, it's been interesting to me.
[14:48]Again, when I say like, people come back with different
[14:50]impressions, it's been interesting to me to be like,
[14:53]oh, I assumed this would be the part everyone thought
[14:56]was the like, oh, I can't get enough.
[14:58]But in fact, it turns out that I am better writing
[15:01]food descriptions than I thought or it turns out
[15:03]like you already want to eat the brunch with the five
[15:05]butters and all over whatever it is.
[15:08]So that's where I sort of made a mental note
[15:12]to dial back on my, like, this is the book about sex
[15:14]because it really is a book about pleasure is the truth.
[15:17]And sex is one component of the pleasure.
[15:19]But honestly, it's also, I think, a love letter
[15:22]to my bike in a number of my friendships.
[15:24]So it's like, it's a true escape, right?
[15:29]You're escaping, you're taking us to another life altogether
[15:35]and another city, the city that people dream about going to,
[15:40]doing the things people can only dream about
[15:42]and eating the things, do you remember?
[15:44]Like it's, the whole thing is like aspirational.
[15:47]And the pleasure in the reader is just getting to go along
[15:51]the ride with you, right?
[15:53]That like the arc from isolation.
[15:58]And you know, where you have giant water bugs and like rats
[16:03]and talons and I'm like, what the heck?
[16:05]Right.
[16:06]I was like, I remember when we met editors
[16:08]said something about water bugs.
[16:09]And I was like, oh, I need to explain to people
[16:11]who don't live in New York.
[16:13]The water bug, but it's not.
[16:18]Yeah, I do think, I mean, I think for everyone, lockdown was
[16:22]the most extreme version of our life choices.
[16:25]Whatever those life choices were, you know, it was,
[16:29]oh, I like being married to this person,
[16:31]but do I want to be married to them this, this much?
[16:34]Oh, I adore my children, but do I need,
[16:36]do I want to be with them as much as I'm with them?
[16:40]Or in my case, I'm like, I love my life,
[16:43]but my God, this is like the most extreme version
[16:46]of being alone.
[16:47]It was like, and I think for all of us in different ways,
[16:49]it was like that.
[16:50]But I just see if I dug it or did it or not.
[16:53]But when you were like, people kept coming up to me
[16:55]and being like, I hate my kids.
[16:58]I love that.
[17:00]I thought you did because I really,
[17:03]and I think to have that feeling towards your children
[17:06]is such a nightmare, so people would come
[17:07]and sort of like walk around socially distance apart
[17:09]with me and like say it like a confession.
[17:11]And I was like, just so you know,
[17:12]like you're like the fifth person and two people.
[17:15]Yeah, I understand the difference between,
[17:18]you were in a really hard place right now
[17:21]and that you actually hate your children.
[17:22]Like there's a, there's a, that we don't allow women
[17:25]to experience necessarily that gray area of like,
[17:29]oh my God, I hate my kids.
[17:32]Yes, because this is a extreme, extreme experience,
[17:35]but yeah, I do think women tell me that.
[17:38]Parents tell me that because I don't have kids
[17:40]in this like, as much in that there's not gonna be
[17:42]like a lack of judgment.
[17:44]I've turned into like the confessional booth,
[17:46]but it's also helpful that so many people do it
[17:48]because I can be like, it's completely normal.
[17:51]You're not alone.
[17:53]I mean, in a way, the book is like the ultimate bounce
[17:58]back for all of us, right?
[18:00]We all need that and we need the distance
[18:04]to see how far we've even come from since there,
[18:06]which doesn't feel like that long ago.
[18:08]And you do that in a way like,
[18:10]I don't necessarily, you know, quote,
[18:12]if someone said like, do you wanna read a book about COVID?
[18:14]But like this is not a book about COVID at all.
[18:16]It's about the aftermath and life.
[18:18]And like, I don't think like if you would take
[18:21]in this trip five years ago,
[18:24]it wouldn't be landing the same way with readers.
[18:26]No.
[18:27]They'd be like, okay, yeah, glad you had fun.
[18:30]Exactly.
[18:31]Precisely.
[18:33]I do think that we,
[18:34]I mean, there I do think culturally
[18:36]that you're seeing this sort of,
[18:38]especially in America because, you know,
[18:41]there's lots of things wrong with France.
[18:43]I don't like to idealize places too much.
[18:45]And Paris exists, you know, as an idea for all of us.
[18:49]And then there's a reality to Paris
[18:50]and in this book, I got both at the same time,
[18:54]which was such a gift.
[18:56]But I do think American particulars,
[18:59]post COVID is a little bit like,
[19:01]I aren't we having more fun.
[19:02]Like why aren't we enjoying ourselves more?
[19:05]Like, wait, she sounds good, like vacation, you know?
[19:09]And you can sort of feel it percolating in the air.
[19:12]And I didn't wanna write,
[19:14]it really just wanted there to be an enjoyable story.
[19:16]I do, I don't remember doing COVID,
[19:19]like, I would go on Twitter
[19:22]and people would be like, I'm taking this opportunity
[19:23]to read Tolstoy, Warren Peace, or Anna Corinna.
[19:26]I was like, oh my God,
[19:28]all I wanna do is watch the party scene
[19:29]in breakfast activity is like, I guess.
[19:32]I just wanted like, obviously,
[19:35]we're not living in a world right now
[19:36]where there's a ton of happy news.
[19:38]And I just felt like,
[19:39]let's just have like a little small,
[19:42]just little party to do it, yeah.
[19:44]Like, just sort of luxuriate in a little small thing
[19:47]because I do think in the experience of joy
[19:51]is resilience, truly.
[19:53]And like this idea that they don't coexist
[19:55]is not related to humanity or reality
[19:58]or how you manage to guess.
[20:00]that's through difficulties.
[20:01]And so, but also that moment, I kid you,
[20:04]I really did feel like I landed in Paris.
[20:06]And like people were just like,
[20:07]how quickly can I take my clothes off?
[20:09]Like there was like,
[20:11]it was like,
[20:12]because they had a much stricter lockdown than we did.
[20:14]I mean, New York was really tough,
[20:15]but Paris had also had a strict lockdown.
[20:18]And so they were just, it did feel like
[20:21]the timing of my landing there in my sort of eight
[20:25]really aligned with the state.
[20:27]But I think that celebration of connection is what life is all about.
[20:28]And that's what you're doing is saying like,
[20:30]I tried it without any human connection.
[20:32]And it was terrible.
[20:34]And yes, of course, we all value our privacy in our time alone.
[20:37]But like, this is like so fundamental to who we are.
[20:40]That I'm going to show you,
[20:42]but it's like when I go all the time,
[20:44]it's like,
[20:45]it's like,
[20:46]it's like,
[20:47]it's like,
[20:48]it's like,
[20:49]it's like,
[20:50]it's like,
[20:51]it's like,
[20:52]it's like,
[20:53]it's like,
[20:54]it's like,
[20:55]I'm going to show you,
[20:56]but it's like,
[20:57]when I go all in on that.
[20:58]And that's what we,
[21:00]that's kind of what we all need in the aftermath.
[21:02]Right?
[21:03]Yeah.
[21:04]You know,
[21:05]I mean,
[21:06]not just the aftermath of COVID.
[21:07]I just think the fact that we're sitting here on Zoom,
[21:09]you know,
[21:10]like the fact that there's a significant system alive
[21:12]that have like transition to not real life
[21:16]and combine that with the COVID experience.
[21:19]It's like,
[21:20]you need to be in community,
[21:22]in real life community.
[21:24]The physicality of being close to somebody just even across
[21:28]the dinner table is so fundamental to how we exist.
[21:34]And being reminded of that that summer has stuck with me.
[21:39]I really do my best to like,
[21:42]I joke these days, I'm like,
[21:44]I'll come to the opening of them.
[21:45]Like I just like just seeing people in real life still,
[21:48]even though we're four years out now or three years out,
[21:50]from the worst of it,
[21:52]still it just still feels like there's like,
[21:54]a craving, like a real life craving, I guess.
[21:58]Someone just sent around an article on Instagram
[22:00]last night or something,
[22:01]which came out,
[22:02]but I missed it.
[22:03]It came out a month or two ago.
[22:04]But just about the rise of attendance
[22:06]in like all sorts of events, right?
[22:08]Like literary events and salons and,
[22:11]you know, these random like dinner things
[22:14]that people are hosting everywhere.
[22:15]Just like people are out and they're like,
[22:17]oh,
[22:18]so yeah.
[22:19]Which is good.
[22:20]I just want to touch like I look quite literally.
[22:22]I'm just like,
[22:23]I'll never never get enough hugs now.
[22:25]Like I just,
[22:26]you know,
[22:27]like I want to like pull up the zoom
[22:29]and like let you into my room.
[22:31]I feel like you are really like,
[22:33]oh,
[22:35]yeah, it's wild too.
[22:38]And also I think gives you some tiny measure of insight
[22:42]into what, you know, isolated people,
[22:46]like isolated by age or certain space
[22:49]or, you know, isolation is punishment.
[22:52]It is truly punishing in it.
[22:54]And I live on the Upper West side,
[22:56]which the population is ages,
[22:59]like the age average is a little higher.
[23:01]But I really do think that like when I'm at the post office
[23:04]and you see sort of older people standing there chatting
[23:07]the way with the post person and you're like,
[23:08]oh, for God to take it and move on.
[23:10]But then I really think like it can be very,
[23:12]like the isolation of age sometimes
[23:14]for some people is so hard.
[23:16]And so it really made me think a lot more about
[23:20]and loneliness because I'm never lonely.
[23:23]And I think we have really, you know,
[23:27]troubling narratives around what,
[23:29]who loneliness attaches itself to
[23:31]and like the circumstances and this idea of, you know,
[23:36]you're a lonely person if you don't partner up
[23:38]or whatever it is.
[23:39]And I just think, oh, I don't actually know
[23:40]how anything to do with it.
[23:41]But loneliness is brutal.
[23:44]And isolation is brutal actually, you know, isolation.
[23:48]It's true.
[23:49]Did you hear that in some grocery stores?
[23:50]Now they're, they're gonna have an aisle
[23:52]for older people who just wanna talk and check out slowly.
[23:56]Oh, that's not, I'm not, I'm getting in that aisle.
[23:59]Sure.
[24:00]I feel like I'm going COVID.
[24:01]I became the person at the post office being like,
[24:04]and then and I thought, oh, this is how it happens.
[24:06]This I can see.
[24:07]I got like a preview into just from circumstance.
[24:12]Oh, I love that.
[24:12]That is my mom told me by like my stepdad.
[24:15]He'll just like go hang out at the post office
[24:17]for a couple hours.
[24:18]He's like, yeah, just like to check it out.
[24:19]So they had all the guys, you know,
[24:21]he like put the chair outside the post office
[24:23]and just hangs out, it's adorable.
[24:25]Anyway, goodness, so great.
[24:28]It was so fun, even just to let you in your writing head,
[24:31]voice, you know, all this stuff again.
[24:33]So I'm a fan and it was great.
[24:36]And congratulations for having me
[24:38]and thank you for reading the book.
[24:39]And it was really fun.
[24:41]I hope I hope to do this again before six more years.
[24:44]So you better get to it and see what they have to offer.
[24:49]Exactly.
[24:49]Oh, yeah.
[24:50]I guess with you.
[24:52]All right.
[24:53]Bye.
[24:54]Thank you.
[24:54]Thank you, bye.
[24:57]Thanks for listening to momstone have time to read books.
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[25:03]on social at city Owens and at city readers.