For Father's Day! Craig Melvin, I'M PROUD OF YOU
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.
[0:14]I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company,
[0:19]reading retreats, a bookstore, and more. Learn more at ZippyMedia.com or follow me on social
[0:25]at Zippy Owens or join the community at Zippy Readers.
[0:31]Craig Melvin is the author of I'm Proud of You. Craig Melvin is an award-winning news anchor
[0:36]on NBC News' Today, co-host of the third hour of Today, and a host of syndicated Dateline
[0:41]NBC broadcasts. Melvin has covered a wide range of news events, including three presidential
[0:46]inaugurations, four Olympic games, and six Super Bowls. He is a graduate of Wilford College in
[0:52]Spartanburg, South Carolina, where he serves on the board of trustees. Melvin lives in Connecticut
[0:56]with his wife, son, and daughter, and a big thank you to Chloe Maylas, who introduced me to Craig.
[1:02]Welcome, Craig. Thank you so much for coming on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss
[1:07]your beautiful children's book. I'm proud of you, which I can't believe that there was no
[1:12]other book called I'm Proud of You. It's such a perfect title, right? I could give it to somebody
[1:16]people. You're very kind. I was actually pleasantly surprised by the lawyers as well.
[1:21]Right? No, no. There it is. Oh, it's great. It looks so good. I read it online, obviously.
[1:30]Tell listeners what inspired you to write a children's book. I know you said you didn't want to
[1:34]be an author originally or you hadn't thought you would write a book. Tell me about it.
[1:38]Well, you know, I mean, lesson. You've got four children. You've been in the rodeo a few times
[1:45]when it comes to child rearing. And I think sometimes it's easy to let the little things
[1:53]fall by the wayside in terms of those, those little moments where your child does something,
[1:58]and you're like, wait a minute. Huh, you couldn't even reach that. Or, you know, a couple
[2:05]months ago, you couldn't even string words together. Now you're sharing complete thoughts
[2:10]feelings. So I wanted to, I mean, perhaps the book is a feeble attempt to try and do what so many
[2:17]of us parents do. And that's like, stop time. And I wanted to try to basically memorialize a lot of
[2:26]those little moments along the way that, you know, he's made me really proud and proud about little
[2:34]things that I never would have thought 15 years ago that I would care about. Like, which one?
[2:40]You know, like jumping off the diving board, you know, like that's just, I still get really,
[2:46]really scared to jump off a diving board. And I remember vividly the first time he saw someone do
[2:52]it and felt compelled to try it himself. And he approached the diving board. This was several
[2:57]summers ago. And at the last minute, he was, he was too scared to do it. And then just a few
[3:04]weeks later with the help of some older friends, he conquered their fear and jumped off the diving
[3:10]board. He did it once. Then he did it again right after that. And then next thing, you know,
[3:14]he's jumping off the diving board 20, 30 times every time. So it's, you know, but even,
[3:21]but maybe like just little things like tying this shoe. Like I remember a couple years ago,
[3:26]you know, I think a lot of parents worry sometimes about really small things. And we had tried
[3:32]teaching him to tie a shoe so many times. And then I found myself thinking, Oh, no, maybe my
[3:39]child will be the only freshman in college who has to wear, who has to wear Velco staff straps.
[3:45]And then lo and behold, right, a few weeks later, he's tying his shoe and like, wow,
[3:51]every the whole book is just, it's, it's a collection of of these little, these little small moments.
[3:58]But it's not just like him being able to do stuff. Like it's, it's, it's the kind of human being
[4:08]he is becoming. And you pour all of this time and all of this energy and all of these emotions
[4:15]into these little people. And then some days you're like, oh, oh, I'm wearing a sociopath.
[4:22]But then there are other days when I wait a minute. He's kind. He's gentle. He is empathetic. So
[4:30]it's a celebration of his emotional growth as well. But it's not just and I have to be very
[4:35]careful about this because I have a daughter as well. And her name is Sivi, which is so close to
[4:41]my name. Yes. Her name is Sivi. We call her Sivi. And I'm actually probably the only one left
[4:49]that calls her civil. Everyone enjoys Sivi so much. It's just, it's just essentially become her name.
[4:56]But, but the book is a celebration of fatherhood. It is a celebration of primarily my son and
[5:03]some of the things that he's achieved so far in his 10 years of life. Things that a lot of parents
[5:08]can relate to. But my daughter is featured on every page except one. Very smart. Well, I,
[5:15]I thought it was. Yes. But Sivi apparently it was not enough. Because when I showed her the book
[5:23]to say that she was less than impressed would be a gross understatement. Oh, no. And I said,
[5:29]sweet girl, I call a sweet girl. It's sweet girl. You're, you're on every page. I'm not on the
[5:34]the cover dad. Well, that is true. That is a fair point. And you are a various students seven
[5:43]year old. And there's power and being on a cover. So I'm going to apparently have to do another
[5:49]book after this. Oh, my gosh. My kids are the same way. I wrote a children's book also and I dedicated
[5:54]it to one of my kids. And then my kids are like, okay, which one are you dedicating to me? I'm like,
[5:58]how many books do you have been right? You know, like, they all want me to write anyway. You just
[6:02]can't wait as a parent. Whatever you do, it's just not enough. It's never fair enough. It's just
[6:07]we do our best. And it just backfires a lot. But you just roll with it and they forget. So
[6:13]yes, or they end up in therapy. Or both. Or both. I think therapy is like a foregone conclusion. It's
[6:21]going to happen at some point. I don't know. I think you're probably right. Yeah, it's a good thing.
[6:27]I think one of my favorites in the book was when your son was being a good older sibling
[6:33]because that is like the best thing to see is when you're being watching my older son be a great
[6:38]older brother to like his little sister, it just like melts my heart. And I could feel that from
[6:44]the page in your book. It was that page was aspirational. It was an ad. No, it's one of those things.
[6:53]It happened. It happened once. I got so excited. It was like, oh my god, I got to write this
[6:57]that. We never happened again. But it is funny about that is it. And I gather it's because it does
[7:06]not happen as often as I would like for tapping as a parent. So when it does happen, I do take notice,
[7:14]he can be really hard on his little sister. To be fair, oftentimes she invites it. Like she knows
[7:21]the buttons to press. She presses the buttons and then runs to me or mom when the reaction she gets
[7:28]is probably what she deserves to a certain extent. That being said, last week my son, his, again,
[7:38]that we didn't we haven't encouraged us. He's taken to it on his own. But he's really gotten into
[7:43]like broadcasting and he has done some stuff with like nightly news kids and he's interviewed a
[7:50]few folks and he was selected to do the morning announcements. And it's called the patches
[7:57]productions. And they have like two anchors. And they they actually have like a little, little
[8:02]teleprompter. And they they they talk about what's being served in the cafeteria. The v4 cast for the
[8:09]day, whatever is being celebrated in the school that day, they toss to to like some birthdays,
[8:16]like every kid has a birthday that day, they get featured. So he's like a, it's like a, it's like
[8:21]a news, it's like a news break. But, but he got to select someone to to co-host with him. And his
[8:30]buddy Jack, like, you know, his road warrior, Jack, obviously got the nod. And he decided
[8:38]and his, his little sister, she's only in the first grade. And first graders don't typically get
[8:42]to do it. She pestered him, Jimmy, to look to the point where he finally relented. And and he led
[8:50]his kids sister sit next to him and and co anchor the morning news at his elementary school.
[8:58]I and I watched the video yesterday with her wife. And I almost got emotional. I was like,
[9:04]what the heck is wrong with me? Who have I become? But like they're sitting there next to each other.
[9:10]He's, you know, it's, it's like he's in a hostage video. So it's, it's like someone's like,
[9:16]pain him to be there. He's like, I'm dulling out. And this is my sister's sippy. He's like,
[9:22]I'm saying, well, mom, mom, she crushed it. She's the natural. Like he's the one that should have been
[9:30]honored to sit next to her. So, so these, these little moments where they're not at each other's
[9:36]throats. It's, um, yeah, I wanted to make sure we celebrated that in the book also as a subtle
[9:43]reminder to both of them when they're older that at one point they, they did get along. But I,
[9:50]I have a younger brother. I don't know if you have younger. I have a younger brother as well.
[9:55]And it's, and my mother sometimes I'll complain to her and my mom's basically
[10:00]like, what are you talking about? Do you not remember how awful you were as an older brother?
[10:06]And I'm like, well, it's different because I was six and a half years older and he's a boy
[10:11]and she's like, no, no, no, it's not different. And my mom points out that the Delano actually
[10:18]is a four kinder, older brother that apparently I was, but, you know, parents tend to revise
[10:25]history as they get older as you know. Yeah, I thought I was the perfect older sister,
[10:28]but apparently I did some not very nice things. I went, yeah, allegedly we played hide and seek
[10:34]and I like never went to find him and then he came back out and was like, he didn't find me and I
[10:38]pretended like we had never been playing the game and I was like, what are you talking about?
[10:42]And I was like, I did that. He's like, oh my gosh, scarred for lunch. So, you know,
[10:47]it's funny that things that siblings remember. Yes, that was my brother will bring up like a story
[10:53]from like, you know, 1998. And I'm like, dude, you have two children. You're still carrying around
[11:01]that kind of baggage. Like, you really still want to talk to me about that time when you were in
[11:07]seventh grade. And I was like, late to pick you up because like I was talking to a girl. That's
[11:12]the story. Fine. Fine. But the things with our siblings though, it's not just baggage. It's like
[11:19]melted to our hands. Like, it will never come off. We will be holding it forever. It's like,
[11:23]like on our death beds. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'll, I'll say to my brother, I'll see you on the
[11:29]other side. But remember time and blah, blah. Did I read in some Instagram post or something that
[11:37]your brother is in the military? Is that true or no? No, no, no. Okay. I thought there was some,
[11:43]you said something like his service or somebody in your family's in service. Nobody.
[11:47]My dad was in, my dad was in the military briefly. Okay. Forget it. I was, I don't know.
[11:53]I thought I just read that, but I'll look up and see what it was talking about. No worries.
[11:56]Well, you did say in your author letter that you had a more difficult relationship with your
[12:01]own dad and you didn't want to repeat that. Can you talk at all about that relationship or what
[12:05]made it difficult or? Yeah. No, you know, my, my first book that I wrote during the pandemic was
[12:12]if this one was a love letter to my son and my daughter, my first one was a love letter to my
[12:18]father, it was a result of therapy, closure, but it was also the result of this, this anguish
[12:27]that, that, that he had been feeling for years about our relationship. My dad was born in a
[12:35]federal prison in West Virginia in 1950 because my grandmother, she, she ran numbers. She,
[12:42]she was a, she was a bookmaker. She was a bootlegger. She ran liquor. She was a badass back in the
[12:49]day. And too much of a badass, she got picked up by the police on a number of occasions and ended
[12:55]up doing a couple of stints in prison. And during one of those stints, my father was born.
[13:00]So he was born as a, as a, as a black man in West Virginia in the 50s in prison. He had a lot
[13:08]of strikes against him. And I, and consequently, growing up, he, he developed this, unsurprisingly,
[13:17]this inferiority complex. He did not even know who his father was until he was a teenager. He
[13:23]was the youngest of, of the bunch and didn't go to college ended up doing a stint in the military
[13:32]and then took a job with the post office right out of, right out of that. And, and so,
[13:38]you know, when I was born, I, I will, I was not, shall we say a planned pregnancy. I was a bit of a
[13:44]surprise back in the late 70s. And, and so my dad wasn't a very good father. I mean, he wasn't a very
[13:51]good father, not because he didn't want to be, but because, first of all, he didn't know how to be.
[13:57]Secondly, he had over the years developed a terrible addiction to alcohol. He was, he was an
[14:04]alcoholic functional for, for most of his life until he retired. And then he spiraled out of control,
[14:10]got into a car, car accident, fortunately no one was hurt, but we used that as an opportunity
[14:16]to stage an intervention, which long story short saved his life and probably save lives of,
[14:23]of some other folks who might have been harmed. How do you continue with some of his reckless
[14:28]behavior? So I, I wanted to, to document his life for him so that he knew always forgiven
[14:37]that his life was worthy and that their, their is, there was power and a story. It's, it's strange
[14:46]because I didn't know at the time, but I would go down to the basement and, and, and, and, interview
[14:52]my dad for hours on end. I didn't know how large the addiction community was in this country.
[14:59]And when I wrote that book, I'm telling you, even now, I, I get strangers who come up and like,
[15:04]oh, my God, I read your book. And, you know, my, my dad was an alcohol. My mom was blah,
[15:09]blah, blah, and we were strange for years. And, and now we're back to, it was, I wrote the book
[15:15]for selfish reasons. It was, and it started out as I wanted to help myself recover. I wanted to
[15:24]forgive my dad. And, but as I continued to write, it really all, it also became this sort of love
[15:31]letter, not just to addicts, but, but, but, but even even more to those who have to care for them
[15:37]and love them unconditionally and forgive them over and over and over again. And so it's, it was
[15:44]people sometimes were like, oh, gosh, who was your, who's, who's been your favorite interview?
[15:49]And for a long time, I struggled with the question because I've gotten to interview some really
[15:52]cool people of the years. But now since I wrote the book, I tell them all the time, it was my dad.
[15:57]I got to interview my father. I've got the recordings. I'm probably six hours worth of recordings
[16:02]of me just asking him all of the questions that I'd wanted to ask over the years. And, and he was
[16:09]honest. I mean, in a grant, sometimes after we talk, he'd come back and he'd say, no, that part
[16:14]where I said blah, blah, blah, maybe we don't put that in. But it was, it was, it was the most
[16:21]cathornic thing I've ever done. So after I did that, I needed to write a children's book.
[16:28]Yeah, palette cleanser before you pick on your mom for the next book or something. No.
[16:34]Are you, are you? Yeah. No, but, but make no mistake, my daughter was jealous. And, and my mother,
[16:41]after I let her read the, the galley from, from my first book about my dad, she felt some sort
[16:47]of way. And yeah, I'll just, I'll leave it at that. And I, because the reality is, my mom,
[16:54]I mean, she was from practical intents and purposes. She was a single mother because of my father's
[16:59]addiction because he also worked third shift at the post office as a mail clerk. My mom was a school
[17:05]teacher. And my dad liked to pick up bad habits throughout his life. And at some point he picked
[17:11]up another bad habit, gambling and lost his life savings, gambling. And we were having a really
[17:17]hard time making inmates. My mom picked up a second job at one point. If she was a cashier to drug
[17:23]store. And so I, you know, I would not be where I am without God's grace and Betty Joe Melvin.
[17:33]And what I, what I didn't want to, I didn't want my forgiveness of my father to an
[17:43]any way, shape or form diminish the role that she played in, in our lives. Like my younger brother
[17:52]and my son, like we just, you know, and so I did sort of wrestle with this weird dynamic
[18:03]that I had to navigate, that I did not fully appreciate before I started to write the book.
[18:08]Does that make sense? Like when you know, you've written, but like you write something
[18:13]and you've got like sort of tunnel vision. And you think about how it's going to affect
[18:20]like the main character in that story. Yeah. Who don't necessarily think about it, how it could
[18:24]affect ancillary characters. Yes. And I didn't do that. And I didn't do it. And all is as well.
[18:32]But it, I had to, I had to make sure that she understood that my newfound expression of my
[18:41]love for my father in truth really only made me appreciate her sacrifices even more because as I
[18:48]started to talk to him, I realized that a lot of what was happening when we were kids,
[18:53]she shielded us from it. Like she went out of her way to make sure that we did not see
[19:02]a lot of the demons that had consumed my father over the years. And he was honest about that.
[19:09]He really was to his credit. So, you could charge, you could charge money for this therapy
[19:16]session that you didn't know you were providing. I hadn't, you asked me these short simple
[19:22]questions and all of a sudden I'm like lying on the couch in your office behind you.
[19:27]That's my side hustle. You know, I just try to work it in when I can. Do you think that your
[19:32]mom has forgiven your dad? That is a complicated question that I think she has forgiven him for
[19:42]some of it. I think that she has forgiven him for the addiction. And I think, you know, the way
[19:52]that we view addiction in our society now, I mean, just 10 years ago, you know, if you were addicted
[19:58]to anything, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're.
[20:00]just your week, your loser, you couldn't get the monkey off your back.
[20:04]You couldn't control your, it was like a self control.
[20:08]Whether it was food, gambling, women, internet porn, booze, drugs,
[20:13]like the lens through which we view addiction,
[20:17]that aperture has expanded.
[20:20]And it's actually happened fairly quickly, thankfully.
[20:23]And so my mother, I, she's always been ahead of her time when it comes
[20:29]to understanding concepts and ideas.
[20:34]So she understands addiction now more than, than, then we all did 20 years ago.
[20:38]I think she's forgiven the addiction.
[20:39]She understands that for what it is.
[20:43]I think that, I mean, listen, you know, I, I've been married a while.
[20:48]You've been married a while, how long have you been married?
[20:51]I'm on my second marriage, but I've been married this time for seven years.
[20:54]Seven years first time, first go around, first go around with 10 years.
[20:58]So you've been, you've been married for a while.
[21:01]My parents have been married for, for more than 40 years.
[21:05]And I, I think when you've been married that long, the only thing,
[21:09]one of the only things that keeps you perhaps from, from killing the other person is that,
[21:13]that pursuit of green line that you both watched the night before.
[21:17]And so there is, I think over 40 plus years, there's just a lot of, you know,
[21:25]just, yeah, yes, yes.
[21:27]This is the biggest advertisement for Dateline ever.
[21:30]Well, it's going to come thanking you so much.
[21:34]Dateline the marriage savior.
[21:37]It's, but no, I mean, it's, I know, I'm thinking out how to, they figured out how to make it work.
[21:42]Yes. And she's forgiven him for a lot of it, but, but not all of it.
[21:46]I can't, I can't, I can't, well, back to the children's book.
[21:50]Any other.
[21:53]We're not talking about divorce crag.
[21:56]I could, I could talk about some of all day.
[21:58]Are you going to write any more children's books to satisfy Sibi and, you know, put her on the cover?
[22:05]I feel like it's only fair and that you should.
[22:07]You know, it's interesting that you asked me that because I, I saw after the first book,
[22:10]I would never write anything again.
[22:12]And then a friend of mine, I was like, you know, I mean, children's books are actually fun.
[22:17]And it'd be really cool for your kid to one day be able to read the children's book about them to their kids.
[22:25]I was like, Oh, that's a no brainer.
[22:27]I'm sold.
[22:28]I was talking to Savannah. Savannah got through my, my, my co-anchor and, and dear friend.
[22:34]I'm reading her book.
[22:36]I, so I hosted a book event for her last week in New Canaan.
[22:41]And we always like spitball ideas and, and she asked the same question.
[22:46]And I was like, I don't know.
[22:48]I need to write something for Sibble and about Sibble and blah, blah, blah, blah.
[22:52]And what you just honed in on was actually what Savannah suggested as well.
[22:57]She's like, correct, because our children are all of similar ages.
[23:01]She's like, what if you, what if you featured Sibble in a book where the book is about,
[23:07]like, sibling rivalry and how they join forces and overcome some sort of obstacle.
[23:15]And they are only able to do it by working together and celebrating each other.
[23:20]I was like, Oh, my God.
[23:22]That's actually not a bad idea.
[23:24]And the other part of it is that I just called you Zib by the way.
[23:27]That's great. That's what that's great.
[23:28]I took word via FFS now. It's all good. Yeah.
[23:31]I took Zivi without permission and shortened it to Zib and for that I apologize.
[23:37]That's like what my close friends say. It's all good.
[23:40]All right. Well, so if I were to ever do another one,
[23:43]I wouldn't list my wife as the illustrator. The illustrator for this book,
[23:47]so your cloud is amazing. Just, I mean, really brought the story to life in a way that I
[23:53]could not be more thankful. We went back and forth over a number of different things.
[23:57]But my wife studied art in college. She was an art history minor. She paints. She draws.
[24:05]And, you know, I, we actually met working together and for a split second thought,
[24:14]maybe I would have her illustrate this book and then I was like, that's going to be too close
[24:18]to hope. But now in hindsight, again, thinking, okay, well, if I did it again, I would,
[24:24]I would have her as, as the illustrator. Now, that could also lead to divorce. I don't know.
[24:30]Yeah. To go either way. Right. And usually, the, usually get dots. Go, you know,
[24:36]absence either makes the heart grow fonder or out of sight out of mind. So I would, I would do it
[24:41]again if, if she would agree to, to sign on to illustrate. So we're, we're, we're in talks.
[24:47]Maybe what you should do is call it how I got on the cover of this book. And the book is about
[24:53]civil's attempts to get on the cover and what she could do to stand out enough in front of her
[24:58]brother who's taking up all the space so that she could get the cover. Well, that's meta.
[25:02]Right. That's meta. I feel like I should probably say for legal purposes here that if I were
[25:07]to adapt that concept, it's all yours. It's all yours. No residuals. It's fine. It's okay. You just
[25:13]take it. Thank you. Thank you. That's a really good idea. Thank you. Take it. I would love to read
[25:20]it. It would be funny. I'd read it to my kids. What advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[25:26]Oh, right. You know what I like about your style, Zibi. Tell me. I'm going to answer your question,
[25:32]even though I'm not remotely qualified to offer advice. You do something that a lot of journalists
[25:39]don't do, especially in this day and age, especially on cable news. You know, a lot of people have
[25:44]taken the, the art of the question. And the, the, the bedrock, the quarters shown of what we do is
[25:50]journalists. They've taken the art of the question, and they've turned it into this,
[25:57]they've, they've perverted the question in a way that they use it to either help the audience,
[26:06]reader, listener, just audience at large. They use the question to try and demonstrate how smart they
[26:13]are. How much homework they've done. That's, that's what the question has become. The question
[26:18]has become the sort of thing that people have taken and, and really twisted. The question for,
[26:29]for true journalists, and I've said this for years, and they, and the folks that I really like
[26:33]it admire whether to Anderson Cooper or Chris Wallace or Bryant Gumble back in the day,
[26:38]the questions are short. They're simple. They are actually used, they are designed to do what
[26:45]questions generations ago were designed to do, to introduce a new idea, a concept, to find,
[26:54]to find out why, how, when or where. And that's, and so you're, you're, you're short simple
[27:01]questions are refreshing. And the shorter the question, typically the longer the rambling answer,
[27:07]evidence right here. Well done. You don't get out of that these days.
[27:14]The advice I would give, and the only things that I've ever written about are things that I'm
[27:20]passionate about, things that are, are close to me, addiction, family, grief, loss, my kids,
[27:29]I write about, I've, I've only written about the things that I care about the most. You know,
[27:34]unfortunately, I'm not a professional. I, I think I, that's one of the luxuries that I do have. I
[27:40]don't, I don't have, this is, it's not how I make my living. So I, I'm afforded that opportunity
[27:45]to, to just write about the things that I'm, I'm most passionate about. So I, that would be the
[27:49]first piece of advice. The second piece of advice, and this goes back to what we just talked about,
[27:56]I continue to find professionally. The less I say, the more I listen, the more people are, are
[28:04]willing to share in, in all for up, which was the, the larger point to the, to the first part
[28:10]of my, my rambling tirade there. Even with my dad, I, one of the early questions, I asked him
[28:17]during our interview. And this was, I actually stole this from a workshop many years ago. It was
[28:24]one of these workshops about interviewing and blah, blah, blah. And they were all these hacks
[28:28]that these professors and journalists were providing. And I, I, I can't remember who it was. And
[28:35]me have been Harry Smith. But anyway, nonetheless, the question asked was what was the most money
[28:42]you ever wasted? And the thinking was that the journalists proposed that question, they were like,
[28:51]you ask anyone that question? It's going to conjure up some fantastic memories, which we'll lead
[28:57]inevitably some pretty impressive stories. So one of the first questions I asked my dad when I was
[29:02]interviewing him for my first book, I said, pops, what's the most money you ever wasted? And without
[29:08]missing a beat, my dad who is notoriously cheap, by the way, my dad said it was $1,400 in 1986.
[29:17]I said, wow, that's, uh, perfect. That's a problem. Which has been $1,400 on a night. And by the way,
[29:27]for the record, I had never known my father has been $1,400 on anything other than like our college
[29:33]education and some help with the down payment for my first house in a car. And he's like $1,400.
[29:40]That's how much it's spent. That's how much I've spent to put my father in the ground for his
[29:45]funeral. I'll never forget it right in that chair. I was like, wow, he's like $1,400. And he and
[29:56]and Jimmy that led to about a 20 minute conversation.
[30:00]about how my dad was so bothered by it because in his lifetime, his father had never given
[30:12]him $1,400.
[30:14]If you've taken all of them, never, and here he was, when his dad died, his strange son
[30:24]was basically the only one who was even in a financial position to help with the funeral.
[30:30]Steps up, steps up, and I'd find, how about the cheapest pine box, we'll rent the funeral
[30:37]home, and he remembered it 30 years later, 40 years later.
[30:43]And even now, every now and then, if I find myself in an interview and it's not going
[30:46]well, I'm like, what's the most money you ever wasted?
[30:50]And there's always a great story.
[30:52]Interesting.
[30:53]Alright, well, next time I'm stuck on a question, maybe I'll throw that in the mix.
[30:57]You don't say me as someone who gets stuck on questions.
[31:00]Craig, thank you so much.
[31:02]Congratulations on I'm so I'm proud of you, and I can't wait for your next book, which
[31:08]I inspired, and good luck.
[31:10]Thank you for everything.
[31:12]No, thanks for letting me in the zippy verse.
[31:15]You're so welcome.
[31:17]You're so welcome.
[31:18]Thanks, Seth.
[31:19]Bye.
[31:21]Thanks for listening.
[31:22]Two moms don't have time to read books.
[31:24]If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social at sippyowans and at
[31:29]zippy readers.