Emmy-nominated journalist Poppy Harlow and Saturday TODAY's Laura Jarrett, THE COLOR OF LOVE

[1:32]Zibby Owens: Hi. I'm Zibby Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, moms don't have time to read books. I am also a newly minted USA Today bestselling author of the novel blank. I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company, reading retreats, a book store, and more. Learn more at zibbymedia.com or follow me on social at zibby owens or join the community at zibbyreaders. Poppy Harlow and Laura Jarrett are coauthors of the children's book, The Color of Love. Poppy Harlow, a previous guest on my podcast, recently and very publicly has left CNN but was the co anchor of CNN this morning, weekday mornings, and was at CNN for over a decade, which we talk about. She is the creator and host of the CNN podcast, Boss Files with Poppy Harlow, and author of The Biggest Little Boy, A Christmas Story, her debut picture book, which we discussed. She is the proud mom of daughter Sienna and son Luca with her husband, Sunisa. Laura Jarrett is the co anchor of Saturday Today and a senior legal correspondent for NBC News. Originally from Chicago, she now lives in New York City with her husband and two children. Welcome, Laura and Poppy. Thank you so much for coming on moms don't have time to read books to discuss your co authored book, the color of love. Congratulations.

[2:54]Poppy Harlow: Thank you for having us. We love Zigbee.

[2:56]Laura Jarrett: We're so excited to join with you today.

[3:00]Zibby Owens: Yay. Oh my gosh. Your book was so sweet and so great. And I've been sitting here being like, what is my color of love? And I feel like it's gonna change depending on the day. Like, there's so many different situations.

[3:11]Poppy Harlow: So, anyway, tell tell listeners about the book and what it's about and how you came up with it and the whole story. I'll just start out by saying, like, what a joy it is to write a book with a friend, like, because this is people don't know children's books are a multiyear process. You know this, Zvi, because collaboration and then the illustration part really makes it longer. But so Laura and I have had this joy of an experience. It started during COVID. So a lot of it was on Zoom, the two of us. And we were already good friends working together at CNN. But I mean, I'll I'll speak for both of us, Laura, just saying I think it made us so much closer because in tandem, in parallel with writing this book, we were raising children, young children of similar ages. So we were like, we'd lament at the beginning of the call about, like, Azuma, about the hard things that were happening in our lives and then the great joys of the kids and then collaborated on something that had a of meaning for us. So it's sort of this new experience for me of being a co author, I've loved it.

[4:07]Laura Jarrett: It really did make it so special to do it with somebody who is equally type A and task oriented, right? People always say like, How did you have time to write a book? And I'm like, Well, you didn't write a book with Poppy Carlo. She keeps us on track.

[4:21]Zibby Owens: We had meetings. We stuck to our drafts. We kept things, like, moving. There were no delays. She kept us on track. That's like the thing with partnership. Right? Sometimes it's really great to be on the same page, and then sometimes you need one type a and one not type a. But in a book project, I think this is particularly helpful.

[4:40]Poppy Harlow: I was just thinking about this yesterday, Laura, like, as we get ready to launch the book. I'm so excited to come on with you, Zibby. You're our first big interview. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, we didn't have any, like, roadblocks together. We didn't have any Like, we went through some iterations of what this we knew the core of the story we wanted to tell, which was I'll just get to, like, the genesis of it. The idea for us came after George Floyd was murdered in my hometown of Minneapolis. And Laura and I are thinking as parents, as journalists, how do we, like, talk to our children about love and inclusion and, you know, hate in the world that exists? And like, how do we do it in a way that is going to be meaningful and touch children and families? And so we went through a few iterations of how we were going to tell this story, right, Laura? But you didn't ever hit like, I can't work with her or this isn't working. We got lucky.

[5:37]Laura Jarrett: No, I think partly, Poppy, it was your sort of genius and your outreach to me saying like, I want to do this project, but I don't think that I can do it alone. And I need a partner in this who's going to offer a different perspective and her openness to someone who might have had a completely different experience when it comes to rights and like hard issues that we want to figure out how to talk to our children about in a way that's age appropriate and not sort of like beating them over the head with a message, but clearly has a viewpoint of inclusivity and of embracing all different kinds of families. How old are all your kids? I have two, almost two and almost five, and they are a handful. So Poppy has given me a tips on deal how with embracing the chaos that is my haves.

[6:40]Poppy Harlow: Yeah. Laura's in it. Let's just come on, mom listening. Laura's in it. And it gets better. Okay. These are you'll see at the end of the book, these are our kids. So mine, Sienna and Luca, are six and eight. And then you'll see our great illustrator, Elisa Chavarri, with her two children there. You'll see the kids holding hearts because they All of our kids cut out hearts themselves, which was a very messy project in Laura's living room. And then those are actually the hearts that we send her a publisher and illustrator, and these are the hearts. Right? So the hearts Oh my gosh. Are actually copies of what the kids cut out themselves. But Laura is in it with that age. And I'm telling you, six and eight, I'm like, can you make your own pancakes? Like, I'm like, did you fold your laundry this morning? Let's go, guys. You know?

[7:27]Laura Jarrett: Easy. Task orient ish.

[7:30]Zibby Owens: I'm a little ahead of so I feel like I can look back on both of you and be like, it gets even easier than that because I have nine I have nine and 10, and then I have twins who are almost 17, which is crazy. Wow. I know. Yeah. So you can survive. Yeah. It's you get I mean, it just keeps getting better, I have to say. But nobody is making pancakes. We got we got to making their own Honey Nut Cheerios. Better. It's a thing. In addition to the very powerful, real important themes of the book, I have to just go to the superficial, which is I need to buy this dress. There is a dress that the teacher is wearing, and it is the cutest thing and reminds me of this wallpaper in my grandmother's bathroom growing up that was, like, so happy and everything. It matches the cover with all these colors. And and anyway, is this a real dress? I have to ask. It's not a dress that that either of us, I think, own, but we wish we did. And that was one of the great things is when you have an idea of what it's going to look like and then you actually see it come to life. And as Poppy said, Elisa, the illustrator is magical.

[8:36]Laura Jarrett: And she sort of captured at least what I think our and vision made it even better than I had expected. Totally. So in news where Laura and I both work, you write a script, you write a piece, and then it's the editor,

[8:52]Poppy Harlow: Right? The video editor and the producer on the piece that help bring it to life. And I kept thinking about that, Laura, like, working with Alisa is analogous to that. Because even if you have a great script, if if the edit isn't magic, it doesn't, what I call, sing. It just makes our story sing.

[9:10]Zibby Owens: That's so true. And, Poppy, speaking of news, you just left CNN in a very public Oh my gosh. How are you feeling about it? I feel so

[9:19]Poppy Harlow: deeply grateful and like at peace. And Laura was with me really every step of this journey because it's been my whole professional career. I've been there almost twenty years. And so it was like I felt it that I was ready for the next and ready for something new, but it's very hard to leave a place you love so deeply. And I say that, like, from the bottom of my heart, it does feel like family. And I cannot say enough about how wonderful they have been and continue to be. Mark Thompson, our great CEO, and Amy Antellis, the two of them held my hand through all of this and completely understood why I was ready to go. And they're hosting a little party for me next week, which just means a So, lot to like, it's never gonna be easy to leave a place and you're gonna grieve all that was. But then I've been thinking a lot about grieving in terms of, like, they say grieving is, like, showing that you loved, right, and that you got the love. I'm I'm not saying that correctly. And so I leave just with, like, a full heart and a lot of excitement about whatever is next. So I just feel grateful for I mean, place raised me. I grew up there as a journalist, as a person. I made so many mistakes. I learned how to lead. I sort of fell on my knees, they picked me up. And I don't know that we can say that about all corporations.

[10:41]Zibby Owens: I I don't. You know? So Aw. I'm full. That's so nice. The quote the the best grief quote I've heard lately was by Nicole Avant who said that grief is the receipt to show all the love that you've given in the world. I I think I messed that up, but it's something about a receipt, which I really I love it. Right? You did way better than I did. I I love that. We can all mangle these quotes. But, anyway so now you two can just become professional. And, Laura, I know you're busy, like, covering trial and all that. I mean

[11:11]Laura Jarrett: There's this little trial that is just taking up all of my extra time. But in the time that I'm not in the courtroom, I'm squarely dedicated to The Color of Love. And this has, like, been the best possible outlet, I think, for both what's happening both in my life and Poppy's life. Yes. The color of love is all, like, goodness and, like, all of the things we've wished the world to be. And so it's, like, been this great sort of, like, amazing other outlet for us.

[11:43]Poppy Harlow: 1%.

[11:45]Zibby Owens: Yeah. So now you'll just take it on the road. You'll you can put you can I bet you could do like 50 of these a year, you know, if this is all you were doing?

[11:52]Laura Jarrett: So much harder. It took so much more time, like, then. Right, Laura? Because you know what the thing I realized is we were doing the recording for the audiobook is that, you know, children's books, I don't know if you guys have found this, but my son is very persnickety. And so if I stumble over a word or try to speed through something and skip over words, he's correcting me every And step of the I realize how they are just so zeroed in on every single word choice. And so when you're writing it, obviously you should always have an economy of words for anything you're writing, but children's books even more so than I appreciated it. Reading it out loud, such an exercise and it's such a great experience reading things aloud to your children. So it's just the process of writing this just sort of brought that home to me. Yeah, brevity, concision, And

[12:49]Poppy Harlow: every word matters, which is actually a great life lesson for all of us. Right? I mean, you know, former cable news anchor, clearly, I like to talk a lot, a lot of corporate. But actually, in life, I think we're better served with fewer, more thoughtful words. And that's actually what writing a children's book is.

[13:08]Zibby Owens: Sometimes

[13:09]Laura Jarrett: it's about what you take out. And what is it about kids? My kids do that too. It's like there's glee every time I stumble over a word or I say the wrong thing. They're like, giggling and pointing it out. I'm like, okay. Okay. I know you're about to jump on me for this one. I he just he can't help himself. And I say to him, like, James, I've been up since four in the morning. Like, mommy's mommy's gonna trip over her words. And I try to show him, like, it means I'm human too. That's, like, lost on him. He's just like, you should be able to get this right. Yeah.

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[16:06]Zibby Owens: But the great thing about The Color of Love too is that you get people to think about all sorts of traditions and forms of love and cultures, and you do it in this very, as you said, positive and happy way, whether it's the silver of the menorah or the stew on the table. I'm getting the word wrong. The what is it? Not gumbo. What's the Yeah. The gumbo. The The Yes. Yes. The roux. The roux. Yeah. That was it. The roux. And That was so cute too, by the way, having, like, a younger sibling hugging her older sibling who's cooking. Oh, my God. Anyway, so that was really heartwarming. Just all the different ways to celebrate the Jamaican flag. Like, it's a really neat way. And it gets everybody else, hopefully, they read it, to start conversations, too. Like, what is your color of love today? Or what is your color of love as a family? If you two had a color of love today, what would it be? Oh.

[16:58]Laura Jarrett: I know Yeah, you go first. No, you go first. You know a counselor. Go.

[17:03]Poppy Harlow: She's not a Harvard educated lawyer, by the way, just dropping that in there for me. Amazing.

[17:07]Laura Jarrett: Okay, great. Well, a Yale educated

[17:10]Poppy Harlow: lawyer is Dude, I did one year, Laura, master's This what,

[17:16]Laura Jarrett: again, two NTM type A lawyers do to each other's business. One up each other on their nerdiness.

[17:23]Poppy Harlow: Love it. Love it. Maybe the first ever Harvard Yale children's book combo. Cabo? You gotta look that up. Know, I might have started something here. I

[17:33]Zibby Owens: Yale went and Harvard Business School. So there you go. Like, gonna jump right into your love power. Laura, she did them both. Okay? She did them both. Nothing

[17:44]Laura Jarrett: to sneeze at. Honestly, Zippy, my color is brown because when I look at sort of the united color of Bennington that is my own family, my son has pointed out to us like every shade now of brown. And it was part of what I thought I wanted to get across in the book with Poppy is that children see color. Children are not color blind. Children are well, well, well aware of color. And my son constantly points out, you're a little bit lighter, daddy's a little bit darker. They just don't have all of the baggage caught up into it. So they see it and they understand it. They're just not bringing any negativity towards it. And I think that that's sort of one of, you know, the beauties

[18:31]Zibby Owens: of childhood. So brown brown would be mine if I had to pick a color. I don't know if Poppy has. What if only we could just keep it like that. Right? Why does it have to change? Why can't it be only

[18:43]Poppy Harlow: just something you look at and comment on and has no associated meaning? Do know what mean? Because why can't it be Mhmm. A color scheme. Yeah. But they're gonna learn and need to learn the important history behind it. Right? Because only from learning our history, full history, can we improve. Right? And make Of it course. Perfect Yes. Union. Yeah. And and to Laura's point, like, they do see it. And I remember the first time that Sienna said to me, oh, your skin is this color and their skin is this color and all those things. But they celebrate the different zippies, what you're saying. Like, they celebrate that's a great point. I mine is yellow. Every day, mine is yellow. For every yellow, like, the yellow books, you know, across I it just makes me so joyful and so happy. And I'll remember when Luca, my son all our kids, by the way, our four kids are in the book. You'll find them. He brought me yellow tulips or daffodils. And he's like, because I know your favorite color is yellow. And I just melted me. So yellow is yeah. Yellow is my favorite color, I think, because of the joy that I have some days and the joy that I need some days. Yes.

[19:52]Zibby Owens: Amazing. Will there be a follow-up book to this? Is that in the works? I know I was joking before, but

[19:58]Laura Jarrett: I would love for this to become a yearly project for Poppy and I to take on. Amen. I think that the great thing about this is that hopefully families and kids and teachers will attach to it. It was fun. I got to read it to my son's class and then a bunch of other classes at his preschool. And it was funny to see what the kids attached to and what they found interesting versus what I thought they were gonna find interesting about it. And, you know, like some puzzled looks, but then other things they definitely related to. So I hope that we can keep this going and turn it into, you know, it's whole multi part series.

[20:43]Poppy Harlow: One of the fun things to Laura's point about, like, doing this in the classroom, I think I asked, I forget if it was Sienna or Luca, like, do want mommy to come read this to your class? I'm like, no. I'm still gonna go, by the way. I'm still gonna show up at some point to school before the end of the year and read it. But for any teachers who might be watching or listening, they're like, we also wrote this with a sort of classroom project in mind. Of course, parents can do it at home with their kids, like Laura and I did. All you need is construction paper and scissors and some tape to put it up on the wall or whatever. But, like, we think that this is a fun classroom activity for teachers listening that can also spark some really meaningful conversations with the kids in the class and when they go home to ask their parents about, you know, their assignment. So we hope we hope people will enjoy doing that too. Maybe you could do, like, a birthday party kit.

[21:33]Zibby Owens: You know, people are always looking for birthday party themes and party stuff. Harvard Business School. Yeah. Harvard Business School coming out here. Love it. Or a board game. I feel like a board game would also be really great. Maybe it's gonna help us scale up the color of love. Yes. But it's really because it's really great, and the colors are so happy, and it like, the way you've already branded it is great. -Yes. Don't know. I think you got to, you know, lean in. -Lean in, Laura. Lean in. I have some time, Laura.

[22:03]Poppy Harlow: Try to figure that out.

[22:05]Zibby Owens: Poppy, do you know what you wanna do next, or you're just gonna take a little breather? I definitely

[22:10]Poppy Harlow: so I said in my my note that I am truly going to walk my children to school and pick them up on most days. The other day, they were so hard when I picked them up, and I was like, why did I agree? Yeah.

[22:25]Zibby Owens: No. No. Let's just be honest. Like, wait a minute. Didn't see you. For

[22:28]Poppy Harlow: the entirety of my experience as a mother, I have never regularly walked my kids school. Before I was on the morning show at CNN, I anchored the nine to 11AM show. So I was still in the office by 04:30, 5AM. So I've never had this experience that the last couple of weeks have given me. And the things they say on that eight minute walk are extraordinary. I'm reading a book recommended to me by a friend called you might know you know all the books called It Goes So Fast. Mhmm. Yes. Parker from NPR talking about and I think it's the year of no do overs. So can I just say that I'm going to try to have a It Goes So Fast year of no do overs with my family? So that, yes, leaning into them, but also working. I love working, so I want to keep working. And I have some exciting projects that people have reached out about that I have had in my belly for a long time that I want to lean into. One of them might involve cooking. No one who knows me will be surprised. I love, love, love cooking. Let's see. Good tease. Let's see what could happen. Have meetings, explore, sleep, breathe, take my kids to school, and try to reclaim some of what I lost in terms of not

[23:43]Laura Jarrett: having these mornings that are so special. Yeah. You realize when you've been working since you were probably, what, 16 or 17? 13 Amoco gas station. Okay. There you go. 14 tour bus guide. You just, you realize like, there's never been a time where it was down, right? You're just constantly going on to the next thing. You're just like, we all are, and that's sort of why we're doing what we're doing. But when you actually like have a minute to like sit back and reflect and actually think, Think

[24:17]Zibby Owens: in peace. It's like a gift. I don't find it that easy, though, to just, like, sit back and think and relax. Like, that's I don't know. Do you find that easy? No. That's why I'm like, I

[24:29]Poppy Harlow: haven't done it yet. I haven't done it yet. I was like my husband the other day was like, what do have going on today? And I was like, this this this this this this this this is like, that's not what you signed up for, so I need to do a little time editing. But at the same time, when people reach out and are like, can we have lunch? Do you wanna have a meeting at how are you? I'm like, Wow, you want to talk to me? Like, that is also like, Oh, okay, sure. That's exciting. But I do think a time audit is needed because to some really wise woman told me, she's a, the other week I met her, she's a performance coach for Formula One drivers and IndyCar drivers. And she told me, her name's Angela Cullen, and she said, Poppy, to speed up, you need to slow down.

[25:10]Poppy Harlow: So maybe. So maybe some oh, my birthday gift to myself, by the way, this week, every day, I'm going to meditation classes. Happy birthday. If it works, I'll let you know. Okay.

[25:24]Zibby Owens: I I do think though that there are different ways people relax. Like, some people, it's really helpful if they meditate and do yoga and, you know, they can but some people relax by doing other things. Right? Relaxing is being just as, you know, focused, but you're not doing it maybe on the news, but you're doing it in the kitchen. Right? Like, that's still relaxing. Like, it doesn't have to look the same for everybody is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. The color of relaxation.

[25:55]Poppy Harlow: Laura, what's your Zippy, you're so right about that. What's your what's your relax mode, Laura?

[26:01]Laura Jarrett: Reading brief? Watching something of of no consequence on HBO Max. I mean, do enjoy cooking, but I am the last person who's gonna do like breath work, meditation, cold plunge, like that all, I get it. And I'm so glad that some people are finding that useful, but it's like, I just can't. I just like I'm just like, put me in front of of a television with a glass of wine and a bowl of popcorn. Amen.

[26:32]Zibby Owens: I feel like there's a little shame in not being able to relax properly. Do you know I mean? Well, yes. Because this because our whole culture now

[26:40]Laura Jarrett: of pushing us overdrive on work and also pushing us overdrive on self care, everything is you have to make time for yourself. You have to have like, we there's no time for ourselves. No. There's no time for self care. We're working. We're moms. We're busy. We're wives. We're like we have parents who are getting older and responsibilities. But there's pressure now to make sure you have enough time for yourself. Yeah. I don't want time for myself.

[27:06]Zibby Owens: If anything, I just want more time to read.

[27:09]Poppy Harlow: Oh, What's your relaxation,

[27:12]Zibby Owens: Zibby? Honestly, reading. Yeah. I mean, occasionally, like, with my husband, we'll watch a movie or, you know, whatever. But I don't like to just like, I I have to be like, this is what like, we should watch this. Or, like, people have said, this is good. Let's try this show as opposed to, I don't know. Let's just, like, waste the time and find something. I don't know. That that stresses me out. Oh my gosh. In your spare time, are you reading anything yourselves, grown up books, kids books that you love, anything else? Short transcripts, Laura? I was gonna get Or not, which is fine. The

[27:44]Laura Jarrett: honest answer is definitely not. Okay, fine. The honest answer is I am knee deep. If you saw my office, which I have carefully not shown you, it's a stack full of old indictments and court transcripts pouring through every night. So that's why when not doing that, I just, I get my fill other ways. Other ways.

[28:12]Poppy Harlow: I would say that that was my life for a long time. I never could read for pleasure or joy. And I'm still not great at it. I don't find a ton of time in the day, but I am reading that book. Yep. It Goes So Fast that I just mentioned by Mary Louise Parker. And then a friend recommended a book I just ordered, so it's one of those sitting on my bookstand I will read you at some point, called Between Trapezes. And it's apparently, like, about when you jump from one thing in your life to the next, but you don't know what the next is. So you're between trapezes and how to, like, savor that time and make it meaningful. So I'm, like, in midair. I don't have a trapeze to grab, so I'm like, okay. Don't fall. So I'm gonna read that book next.

[28:59]Zibby Owens: Amazing. Well, this was so much fun. Thank you. Sorry we weren't in person, but next time, when you're next time out yep. You for the color of love. I am now gonna make it my mission to try to find a dress like this because you both need to be wearing this dress on your tour and everything. Anyway.

[29:15]Laura Jarrett: Thank you so much. To inspire to inspire your wardrobe, Joyceann. Yes. Thanks.

[29:21]Poppy Harlow: Thanks for having us. We'll see you on Saturday. Yes. Very excited.

[29:26]Zibby Owens: You so much. Thank you. Okay. Bye. Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social at Zippy Owens and at Zippy Readers.