Katrina Leno, THE UMBRELLA MAKER'S SON
[0:02]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens and I am the host of this podcast, Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.
[0:14]I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company,
[0:19]reading retreats, a bookstore, and more. Learn more at ZiviMedia.com or follow me on social
[0:25]at Zivi Owens or join the community at ZiviReaders.
[0:31]Katrina Lino is the author of the umbrella maker's son.
[0:35]She is also the manager of Zivi's bookshop in Santa Monica, California.
[0:40]If you are a frequent visitor or you're going in for the first time, ask for Katrina,
[0:44]have her sign her book for you. She is amazing.
[0:48]Katrina was born on the east coast and currently lives in Los Angeles.
[0:51]She is the author of seven critically acclaimed novels,
[0:54]including you must not miss Horrid and sometime in summer.
[0:58]The umbrella maker's son is her middle grade debut. She has always loved the rain.
[1:02]Welcome, Katrina. Thank you so much for coming on Momstone Have Time to Read Books to discuss
[1:06]the umbrella maker's son. I'm so excited to be here.
[1:11]This is so funny for us since you are the Zivi's bookshop amazing store manager.
[1:16]So we get to talk all the time about that kind of stuff and not as often about your book.
[1:19]So yeah, actually my one-year anniversary at the bookshop is coming up in just a couple
[1:25]months. I know. I know. Time to go through by it. Wow. Well, you really swept in and just
[1:31]got us all straightened out and, you know, it's amazing what you've done with the place. Thank you.
[1:38]Okay. The umbrella maker said, tell listeners what your book is about.
[1:42]Yeah. So this is my first middle grade novel. So it's for ages, you know, eight-ish to 12-ish.
[1:48]And I have always wanted to write a middle grade novel. So this is really exciting.
[1:53]Well, my previous books have all been for teens. So I've had this idea for a really long time.
[1:59]And I mean, a really long time, meaning like 50 and 20 years. And I kept trying and sort of
[2:05]failing to write it. I would write different, you know, iterations. I would write a short story.
[2:10]I would write, you know, at one point, I thought it was going to be a graphic novel.
[2:14]But the general idea of this story has really saved the same. And the idea is a fantasy. It takes
[2:21]place in another world. It takes place in a city called Rome. And in Rome, it is always raining.
[2:28]And it focuses on a little boy named Oscar. And his father is an umbrella maker and his father's
[2:35]father was an umbrella maker. And his father's father's father's father was an umbrella maker. And it
[2:38]really runs in the family. And it kind of makes sense because it always rains in their city.
[2:43]But in recent years, a sort of big, bad wolf industry corporation company has kind of swept
[2:51]in and started making very cheap umbrellas. And it has threatened the whole buckle umbrella
[2:59]corporation. So Oscar's dad is really struggling to pay bills. Oscar is struggling because he doesn't
[3:06]want to be an umbrella maker. And he doesn't know how to tell his dad that. And so that is sort
[3:11]of the jumping off point for the whole story. Oh my gosh. And love it. And the way you write is
[3:16]so wonderful. And I know I told you this at the time, but my son, who is a big reader, like
[3:21]was clutching this book to his chest, like leaving school, coming home from school. I mean,
[3:25]it was the best thing ever. It was like bringing a little piece of you into their school. It was just
[3:30]so cool. And he was a very discerning reader. So, you know, that is the one I said. But I also
[3:37]enjoyed it myself tremendously. You're so great and clever. And your little asterisk,
[3:42]asterisks, how do you even say the asterisk? Yeah. With, you know, all this commentary and
[3:51]your voice is just so accessible and relatable. And there's such a fun sense of humor to it. And
[3:57]yet also immersive. I don't know. It's like, it's great. And what a great premise for a story.
[4:03]That's why I brought all these umbrellas for the store, but nobody's buying them. But anyway,
[4:07]at least we have them. We tell me more about how you see how the idea for a long time,
[4:14]how you turned it into a reality. I started writing this version of it during the early pandemic.
[4:19]I think I just needed something really like happy and kind of joyful to work on. My last couple
[4:29]young adult books had been sort of darker, which is also very fun to write. But I think I needed
[4:34]a little bit of a break from that. And I also just needed to work on something that at the time,
[4:40]to me, it felt very like low pressure. Like I wasn't, it had never worked before. So I kind of went
[4:46]into it, maybe assuming a little bit that it wasn't going to work this time. So it was never like,
[4:50]oh, I need to write this book that I sell. It was just like, I need to write something that's
[4:56]going to make me happy. And that's going to take my mind off things. And so I really think it was
[5:01]kind of just a happy coming together of all these different things. Like finally, the story clicked
[5:06]in my head. It was the right time. It was the right place. And it worked. And it's interesting that
[5:13]you mentioned the footnotes, the asterisks, because that was one thing that when I was trying to
[5:17]sell the book, my publishers, I sold it to a little brown who had done my previous few Y novels.
[5:26]And my editor at the time was like, we really love this book. But we don't think footnotes
[5:30]are right for a middle grade novel. Like we don't think kids will understand them.
[5:35]And I have two nazas who I'm very close with. They're both nine. So at the time they were like
[5:40]seven when I was trying to sell this. And I was thinking about them. And I was like, actually, to me,
[5:46]it feels like almost like an inside joke. And like inside like conversation between me and the
[5:52]reader and both of my nazas after they finally read the book this past year, they were like,
[5:59]we love the footnotes. Like we had never seen a footnote before. We thought that was so cool. It
[6:04]felt so like kind of grown up for them to read. And to me, I was like, you have to like learn what a
[6:10]footnote is eventually. So what better way than in, you know, a story like this where I feel like it
[6:16]makes a lot of sense, because it takes place in a fantasy world. So a lot of the times the footnotes
[6:19]are explaining a word we don't have in this world, or they're explaining a sport we don't have in
[6:24]this world, or they're explaining different types of rain, of course, in the city where it's always
[6:28]raining. So I don't know. The whole experience was just like really joyful to write and really
[6:34]exciting to like have kids like your son and my nazas like read it and really respond to it. I was
[6:39]like, I was right. No, you were totally right. Even if the kids didn't know what a footnote was,
[6:45]it's I mean, think about all the crazy things that happen in children's books. Right. There's
[6:50]laps. There's like, you know, choose your own adventures. There's, yeah, you know, just like so many
[6:57]formatting things that people are always putting in front of kids. And then from that, they go to
[7:03]just text. I mean, right. I mean, if if nothing else, it's just blocks of text. Yeah, places or something
[7:09]I don't know. I'm glad you held firm on that. Yeah, I'm happy too, because there was a moment
[7:15]where I had this like conversation with my agent and she, you know, she really loved the
[7:20]the footnotes. And it was definitely a conversation. And then of course, the audiobook
[7:25]writes sold. And it was another conversation because they, you know, they were sort of like,
[7:29]we can't put but notes in the book. Like that doesn't make sense for an audiobook. And I recently
[7:35]actually made my niece was listening to the audiobook and she played me some. And I had never listened
[7:40]to it before because I just, I'm kind of like a hands off author. Like once it's out in the world,
[7:45]go do what you want to do with it. I had just like great. It's an audiobook that's awesome, but I had
[7:49]never wanted to listen to it myself. And she played it for me. And they do like omit some
[7:54]but notes, but then they also do some footnotes as a size, which I thought was, you know, like
[8:00]little almost parentheticals in the way that they. So yeah, it really, it really worked out. And
[8:04]the audiobook is very fun too. So you've referenced your past books. And what number book is this?
[8:10]This is number eight. Wow. And how did you get your start writing? Did you always want to be a
[8:17]writer? Like tell me about your younger life in this past sense of creativity that you have in
[8:22]imagination? Yeah, it's definitely as corny as a sense. It was a calling from a very young age. I
[8:29]used to write short stories when I was, you know, six or seven. I just, I was really fascinated
[8:34]with books. My mom used to take me to the library every day after school. And I would just
[8:39]get like a stack of books. And that's kind of all I did. Like I didn't, I mean, I played with
[8:43]Barbies. I played with Matchbox cards. But you know, my main hobby was sort of just reading. And
[8:49]I remember the moment I had this like little epiphany when I was, I don't know, like nine or 10, I asked
[8:55]my mom like, where do books come from? Actually, like, you know, where do how do they get to the library?
[9:00]And she said, well, people write them. And I am in like, you know, 30 years later, I remember this
[9:07]conversation so distinctly because my brain was like, I'm so what? Like, people write books,
[9:14]like you can just choose to do that. And yeah, and never went away. I was writing short story.
[9:19]I wrote a lot of just super angsty poetry and like middle school and high school. And then when
[9:24]I was in high school, when I was 16, my English teacher brought a short story competition into
[9:30]the classroom. And it was for young writers and the prize was to be published in
[9:36]the Connecticut literary review. I'm pretty sure that's the name of it was like, you know,
[9:41]this old literary magazine. And I won. And it was so, I mean, it was very cool. Like, I went to this
[9:48]little awards ceremony. And then, you know, my short, my story was published. It was called the long
[9:54]way. And I do not know if I could even find a copy at this. Someone asked me the other day. I was like,
[10:00]I was telling the same story and they were like,
[10:01]can I read it?
[10:02]And I'm like, oh, I don't know if I even have to go back
[10:05]and look for that.
[10:06]Wow, that is so special.
[10:07]Don't you wonder too about the person who didn't get chosen,
[10:10]who was sitting right next to you
[10:11]and how their life dream of being in the mind
[10:14]have gotten totally squashed?
[10:15]Like how much how little encouragement we need?
[10:18]Yeah, that's a little, that's a huge deal.
[10:20]It's a huge, huge deal.
[10:21]But just that without encouragement,
[10:23]so many dreams just die right there.
[10:26]Yeah, I mean, I've also been rejected so many times.
[10:29]And not quit, so hopefully that person did not quit.
[10:33]And when, you know what I mean?
[10:35]But it was kind of weird how they chose a semi-finalist.
[10:38]I don't know how many there were, let's say like three or four
[10:40]and then they brought everyone into a room.
[10:42]So yeah, they were definitely like little 16 year olds
[10:45]who didn't get chosen.
[10:47]I hope they kept on with it because, you know,
[10:50]at the end of the day, winning a writing contest
[10:53]when you're 16 is like fun,
[10:54]but it's not the decider of whether you are worthy
[10:58]of, you know, this career.
[11:00]So then did you go to college and you decided
[11:02]you wanted to go to college for writing
[11:03]and everything would happen next.
[11:04]Yeah, I just had a very strange college experience.
[11:07]I went to a college that didn't work out.
[11:09]I ended up transferring to Emerson in Boston,
[11:12]which is a very, you know, liberal arts school.
[11:14]But I was there for like three semesters
[11:17]and I just think I wasn't super ready to like be away
[11:20]for my family and be like immersed in this new.
[11:24]I was maybe like a late bloomer just kind of,
[11:26]I was super lonely and like just, it wasn't working out.
[11:29]So I dropped out of that college.
[11:32]I took a little bit of a break
[11:33]and then I ended up finishing my degree at UConn,
[11:36]the University of Connecticut,
[11:37]which is not a liberal arts school.
[11:39]It's a very big like sports school,
[11:41]a big like teaching school,
[11:43]everything except writing.
[11:44]But I did major in English,
[11:46]but I was able to like live from home, just commute.
[11:49]And I majored in English,
[11:51]but I don't really think that's,
[11:53]I would almost suggest that people maybe don't do that
[11:57]if they're interested in writing
[11:58]because I almost think like learning about any other topic
[12:02]in the world is gonna be helpful in your writing
[12:05]and inform your writing.
[12:06]And I did a master's program in writing actually too
[12:09]in Scotland and that was, you know, not necessary at all.
[12:13]Like I loved it, I loved, you know,
[12:16]I loved living in Scotland for a year
[12:18]and that part of it was all really great,
[12:19]but the program itself, you know,
[12:21]I wish I had done something totally random.
[12:24]And like, you know, just like learned about different things.
[12:27]I love learning about literature and writing though,
[12:29]but I don't think you have to.
[12:31]Interesting.
[12:31]Why Scotland?
[12:32]Honestly, I don't know.
[12:33]I had always wanted to go there.
[12:36]I had never been there before.
[12:38]You know, I was looking at a couple different programs abroad.
[12:40]I knew I wanted to do.
[12:42]So it was a master's program, not in MFA.
[12:45]So it was only a year.
[12:47]And I was really interested in genre fiction
[12:52]at the time.
[12:53]A lot of my books, you know,
[12:53]this is a fantasy book.
[12:55]A lot of my young adult books
[12:56]were sort of have, you know, elements of fantasy in them.
[13:00]And so I found a course in genre fiction.
[13:04]So it was basically like a one year master's program
[13:08]that sort of specialized in fantasy and science fiction.
[13:10]I thought that was really cool.
[13:12]Like you don't really see a lot of that here.
[13:14]Like in America, it's very like, you know,
[13:16]literary fiction is the only kind of fiction
[13:19]that is like import and or worth studying.
[13:21]And you know, that's so silly.
[13:23]So I just, yeah, the program kind of calls me.
[13:27]It ended up not being a great program though.
[13:29]But again, like the experience,
[13:31]just the experience of like living outside of my,
[13:33]extremely outside of my comfort zone for a year
[13:36]was I think, you know, beneficial to my growth.
[13:39]And I actually sold my first book right
[13:43]before the program started.
[13:44]So I was, you know, in the program for a year,
[13:48]doing revisions on my book, then I came back to America.
[13:51]And my book came out, my first book came out in 2014.
[13:53]So it was a very exciting few years.
[13:57]Oh my gosh.
[13:57]And what was the name of the first book?
[14:00]My first book that came out was called
[14:01]The Half Life of Molly Pierce.
[14:03]It feels so long ago.
[14:05]I wrote it when I was 26, 27,
[14:08]and then sold it when I was 27.
[14:10]So it came out when I was 29.
[14:12]Yeah, this, oh, this year is 10 years.
[14:15]Yeah, so it's the book that I feel the like kind of
[14:19]the least attached to, like the least close to it feels
[14:23]like a different person wrote it, to be honest.
[14:26]It was just feels like another lifetime ago.
[14:29]But it, you know, it launched a whole very, you know,
[14:32]in my mind successful, satisfying career
[14:36]of writing books for younger people,
[14:37]which is, you know, it's always what I've wanted to do
[14:40]my whole life.
[14:41]Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
[14:42]And tell me about bookstore, what bookstore life
[14:46]and what that's like for you now.
[14:48]And how it's informed you're writing, if at all.
[14:52]Yeah, I have always wanted to work in a bookstore.
[14:56]You know, writing is incredible.
[14:58]A small selection of people are able to write
[15:02]as a full-time career.
[15:03]Most people are not.
[15:04]And so I've always kind of had jobs here and there,
[15:07]like supplementing my writing income, you know,
[15:10]different experience.
[15:11]And usually that was in fashion.
[15:12]I worked in fashion for a very long time.
[15:14]And then I was let go a year into the pandemic.
[15:19]And I took a couple of years off.
[15:21]And I kind of like applied for some copywriting jobs,
[15:24]applied for some copy editing jobs.
[15:26]I've never really wanted to do that,
[15:28]but it's sort of like make sense as a writer,
[15:30]like, oh, what do I do now?
[15:31]I guess copywriting.
[15:32]And then I really wanted to work in a bookstore.
[15:36]I somehow never worked in a bookstore before.
[15:39]And I applied for a job at Diesel
[15:42]before Zivi's was open.
[15:44]And they didn't hire me,
[15:45]which is a loss on their part.
[15:48]And then I was just happened to be talking
[15:50]to my partners on one day.
[15:52]And she works for Ingram, of course.
[15:53]And she was like, what about CIMI's no trap?
[15:55]I think they just opened.
[15:56]And I had never heard of it.
[15:57]It had been like opened for two weeks at that point.
[16:00]And it really like fell into my lap
[16:03]and became such a cool experience.
[16:05]It's like the best.
[16:06]It's close to my apartment.
[16:08]Everyone who works there is just delightful.
[16:10]We're a really close team.
[16:12]When I think now about eventually I'd love to write
[16:15]in adult novel,
[16:16]and I think working at the bookstore
[16:17]has been incredible for that,
[16:18]because I know more about books
[16:21]than I feel like I've ever had before.
[16:23]Like we're constantly talking about new books
[16:25]that come out.
[16:26]We're constantly getting new books in the store.
[16:28]Like everyone's reading something.
[16:30]There's so much time to just like talk about literature
[16:33]and, you know, the store carries all ages,
[16:37]but for me it's been really helpful being like,
[16:39]oh, okay, what adult books are coming out,
[16:42]what adult books are getting popular.
[16:43]And so eventually, hopefully I'll write
[16:46]my first adult book.
[16:48]And I think this whole experience will be very helpful
[16:51]for that.
[16:52]That's great.
[16:53]I'm writing my next novel.
[16:53]It's seven a bookstore in Santa Monica.
[16:56]That's amazing.
[16:57]I mean, yeah, it's awesome.
[17:00]I cannot just write my life here.
[17:02]I've got at at least mixed up details.
[17:05]Maybe she should be blonde, I don't know.
[17:08]But yeah, even, you know, I know I'm hardly there
[17:10]compared to you.
[17:11]But the time that I've spent there has already totally changed.
[17:15]You know, when you watch people shop
[17:16]and just listen to the conversations,
[17:18]it's like the best listening thing.
[17:20]What are people looking for and why?
[17:22]Yeah.
[17:23]It was recommending and it's like a dream.
[17:26]Yeah, it's really special.
[17:27]I think like it is just not inspiring
[17:30]helping someone choose a dress.
[17:32]And you know, it's so inspiring
[17:35]talking to people about what they want to read.
[17:38]And like, I know so many customers names now.
[17:41]I know like we have a customer who comes in every week
[17:45]for like her new read.
[17:46]We have a customer who comes in every lead with her daughter
[17:48]for her daughter's new read.
[17:50]And it's like, it's so nice.
[17:52]It's so nice.
[17:53]So how do you manage your writing brain versus everything else?
[17:58]Like when you were in fashion and like when would you write
[18:00]at night or at the weekends or how did you pull all that off?
[18:04]Usually I write, I'm always like better in the morning.
[18:08]So usually I'm writing in the mornings.
[18:10]I can't really write unless I'm like really on a time crunch
[18:14]or like really feeling inspired by something
[18:16]it's hard for me to write at night.
[18:17]Night is like my reading time, my like, you know,
[18:21]sort of decompressing from the day.
[18:22]So usually now my schedule is like, you know,
[18:25]I usually go to the bookstore around like nine, nine, 30.
[18:28]So up by six, right, for like an hour and a half,
[18:31]maybe two hours if it's a great morning.
[18:33]Right now I'm working on edits for my book
[18:36]that comes out next year is another teen book.
[18:38]It's called Haunted Hearts.
[18:40]And it's been published by Wednesday books at McMillan,
[18:44]which is very exciting.
[18:45]And so, you know, the routine looks a little different now.
[18:48]It's less, you know, frantic writing.
[18:50]And it's more like, how do I fix this plot hole
[18:52]my editor pointed out.
[18:54]It's so stupid.
[18:55]And, you know, on the weekends,
[18:57]I try to kind of stick to that same schedule
[18:59]like right in the morning and then have the rest of the day.
[19:02]It routines really work for me.
[19:03]You know, I don't really like write a coffee shop
[19:06]even though it sounds so romantic.
[19:07]And I love when people are able to go write a coffee shops.
[19:11]It doesn't really work for me.
[19:13]I always like immediately have to pee
[19:15]or I'm hungry at work.
[19:17]I'm thirsty or just like, you know,
[19:19]immediately distracted by everything going on around me.
[19:22]So yeah, I'm like sitting at my desk, you know,
[19:26]writing for a couple hours and then we're done.
[19:28]Wow.
[19:29]That's really cool.
[19:30]What do you have a update yet?
[19:31]I don't.
[19:32]We're hoping for November, 2025,
[19:37]which feels like a million years off.
[19:39]But then I remember that we're almost in March of 2024, yeah.
[19:45]And your book comes out in a few days, which is so exciting.
[19:48]It does.
[19:49]But my next book is supposed to come out in October of 2025.
[19:51]Oh, no idea how I'm gonna do that
[19:53]because I haven't been shredding it.
[19:55]Yeah.
[19:56]Well, you saw the couple months of it.
[19:58]And yeah.
[19:59]Yes.
[20:00]Well, I don't know. I'm just I am glad these all that did not hire you because
[20:06]Seriously, it's been such a wonderful thing working with you and having you run something that's so important to me and doing such a job
[20:13]So it's really wonderful. Thank you. I feel the exact same way. I really do
[20:16]Do you have any parting advice for aspiring authors?
[20:20]Yes, I think my my biggest advice is don't hold on to closely to any one piece of advice
[20:26]You know, I think they're growing up. I always heard the same
[20:30]You know, I read a lot of the books, you know, there's some great writing books out there and you know
[20:36]I read all of them and but I kept hearing like advice that didn't end up serving me like you have to write every day or you're not a writer
[20:44]like who came up with that
[20:47]My god, if you'd rather go on a hike than write like go on a hike, you know
[20:51]I'm just like I'm so of the the mindset that like everything you do
[20:56]Informs you're writing even if it doesn't look like writing at all even if it's going on a hike or going on a walk or going for a run
[21:02]Or going on a bike ride or like going shopping sometimes, you know, I'll like I'll just make sure whatever
[21:07]I'm doing
[21:08]I'm kind of open to like what's going on around me. You never know what you're gonna hear or see
[21:13]that likes parks and idea and so
[21:17]Yeah, just stay open to the idea that everything around you can be inspiration and you don't have to like fit yourself into
[21:24]one specific idea or one, you know, specific box of like what a writer is supposed to do or look like
[21:31]I love them. All right last question. Do you prefer rain or sunshine?
[21:37]Man, I love the most so much. I can't pick. I love the rain in LA
[21:43]especially because the city just like
[21:46]Changes when it rains. You know, it really changes in a way that you know, I live in New York for a while and
[21:54]It doesn't change on the east coast people are just like great. It's raining and here. It's like here
[21:59]It's just like this special thing. So I think for now my answer will be rain loving well
[22:05]It is raining here today
[22:07]Was actually looks like it still might be and I was coating my umbrella around today
[22:11]So it was the perfect day for the umbrella maker. Nice. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's why it rained today. Apparently
[22:17]Oh, I like that. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Well Katrina, congratulations. So excited about your next book
[22:23]Oh my gosh, and you're wonderful career and your adult book to come and it's just so cool. I'm so excited
[22:29]Thank you very much. And thank you for having me and this was really fun. Thank you
[22:35]Thanks for listening to moms don't have time to read books if you love it
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