Tamron Hall, WATCH WHERE THEY HIDE: A Jordan Manning Novel
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake, and created
[0:14]a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company, reading retreats,
[0:20]a bookstore, and more, learn more at ZippyMedia.com or follow me on social at Zippy Owens
[0:26]or join the community at Zippy Readers.
[0:31]But Tamron Hall is the author of Watch Where They Hide, a Jordan Manning novel.
[0:36]By the way, I had Tamron Hall and we'd talk about it a little bit to the January 20th
[0:41]new year new chapter event we threw for all of our past book club picks, or my past
[0:46]book club picks.
[0:47]Tamron Hall's last book was one of the Zippy's book club picks, and so it was great to
[0:53]listen to her talk about this one, and she is so nice that she shouted out Zippy's
[0:58]book club on her show, and she is having me as a guest on her show, which is really
[1:03]exciting.
[1:04]Okay, two-time Emmy Award-winning journalist and author Tamron Hall is executive producer
[1:09]and host of the nationally syndicated talk show, Tamron Hall.
[1:13]As a veteran journalist, Hall leans into her 30 plus years in the field to ask the
[1:17]tough questions while having engaging thoughtful conversations.
[1:20]Tamron Hall is currently the second longest-running Disney-produced syndicated talk show,
[1:24]and continues to be one of television's highest-rated daytime shows.
[1:27]Consistently delivering standout moments that become central to the cultural conversation.
[1:32]Hall's extensive resume also includes hosting deadline, crime with Tamron Hall, on investigation
[1:37]discovery today and today's take, and MSNBC's Live with Tamron Hall.
[1:41]She received the 2015 Edward R. Murrow Award for reporting hard news and network television
[1:47]for her segment on domestic violence as part of today's Shine a Light series.
[1:51]An outspoken advocate for shedding light on domestic abuse, Hall has partnered with
[1:55]Safe Horizon to launch the Tamron Renate, fund, and honor of her sister to help victims
[2:00]and families affected by domestic violence.
[2:03]Enjoy our conversation.
[2:04]I know I did.
[2:05]Welcome, Tamron.
[2:06]Thank you for coming back on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[2:09]To discuss, watch where they hide your latest in the Jordan Manning series Chronicles.
[2:15]I don't know.
[2:16]What do you call it?
[2:17]Oh, yes.
[2:18]I think it's a series.
[2:19]My goal is for it to be the series.
[2:20]It's for two books and then I think the goals that he was 10, so we'll see if I make
[2:24]it.
[2:25]That's a big goal.
[2:26]I love it.
[2:27]Game high.
[2:28]Why not?
[2:29]Thank you.
[2:30]I read every word of this book.
[2:32]I stayed up until one in the morning, the night I finished it.
[2:34]I could not put it down.
[2:36]It's so good.
[2:38]It's like interesting and you have to think so much in a good way and no, not like it's
[2:45]so confusing.
[2:46]It's like the struggle, right?
[2:47]And I've been there where you ready that five more times to do that, but let me go back.
[2:52]What was that?
[2:53]Wait, wait, wait.
[2:54]I forgot something or I hadn't read it in a while, but anyway, why don't you talk about
[2:57]the plot?
[2:58]But I just wanted to say I really, really enjoyed it and yeah, can't wait for the next number
[3:02]three.
[3:03]Oh, man.
[3:04]Well, thank you.
[3:05]First of all, thank you so much.
[3:06]And thank you to all of your fans and supporters who showed up for our event.
[3:09]It was 30 below zero, but it was my heart to do that.
[3:13]It was very cool that they remember.
[3:15]No, so the plot, Jordan Manning is a journalist who has a background in forensic science
[3:20]and she's pulled into a case of a missing mother of two lives in Indiana.
[3:25]Jordan is based in Chicago and we meet her in this book as her career starting to pick
[3:31]up steam.
[3:32]She's been breaking news and really becoming the top reporter at her TV station.
[3:38]And now she's approached by someone, I don't want to tell you how they find her, but she's
[3:43]approached by someone who was in desperate need.
[3:45]And that really speaks to the heart of Jordan Manning.
[3:47]She is someone who loves her job.
[3:49]But more than that, she loves to see people treated fairly.
[3:55]She is front of mind of justice.
[3:58]And that causes her as a reporter to cross these lines, you know, the reporters supposed
[4:03]to be neutral, the reporters supposed to be the observer and not the participant.
[4:08]In this book in particular, we see Jordan cross this line of being more than the reporter.
[4:14]She is in some ways of vigilante all while.
[4:18]And this was important to me all while exploring what's it like for a young woman in her
[4:23]30s, who loves her work, who is driven, but also is at a date where the guy is saying,
[4:30]hey, you work too much, you know, that that constant battle of particularly women wanting
[4:36]to or needing to be a wife, a mom, a colleague, a friend while having our own goals and
[4:41]dreams.
[4:42]So she's got this goal and dream of being a reporter, but life is pulling her in so many
[4:47]directions.
[4:48]Well, I actually found that really interesting between her and Nate, because it doesn't
[4:52]mean that it's the right person, if you have to like hide that you're working hard.
[4:56]I know she doesn't old, you know, I won't give anything away, but you know, I don't
[5:00]know that's like rang in alarm bell for me, like when she has to listen to all his
[5:04]doctor stuff for 22 hours and faint interest.
[5:08]Yeah.
[5:09]But I mean, so many people have been there, right?
[5:12]And I've Jordan is inspired, of course, by my life as a reporter, but I also took pieces
[5:18]of other friends from different industries, by the way, and what is that experience?
[5:23]You know, here's Jordan covering the disappearance of a mom of two, Jordan also now being
[5:29]pulled into that angst of, am I supposed to have kids?
[5:32]When is the right time while at the backdrop of all of what's happening in this case,
[5:39]she has a friend who's getting married.
[5:41]And yet again, she's the bridesmaid who doesn't have a date.
[5:45]So it is, I wanted her to be a 360 character, right?
[5:49]Why I want you to see her humanity in her drive and why she's willing to compromise
[5:54]it all for this woman who's missing.
[5:57]But at the same time, she goes home and, you know, looking at the wedding invitation
[6:02]of a friend thinking, I got to help my best friend plan the wedding.
[6:06]And yet again, I'm just, you know, going to spend the whole evening being asked what's
[6:10]going on with your dating life.
[6:11]True.
[6:12]But still, she didn't have to say like, what are you doing today?
[6:15]I just went to a flea and I'm like, you did not just go to a flea market.
[6:19]You did something amazing.
[6:20]You know, come on.
[6:21]And that's the irony of her is that she's this bold character who's willing to drive
[6:26]hours to get to know the last minutes of this missing woman.
[6:33]But she shrinks herself down in this desire to be wanted by this man in front of her.
[6:41]Who to your point would likely, well, hopefully if he's the right one, be more interested
[6:46]in her authentic life of reporting and trying to get justice.
[6:52]But she's not convinced of that.
[6:53]And that's the, that's the part of the character I really wanted you to see.
[6:56]And I'm so happy you make that point.
[6:58]It is, you know, that where you're rooting for Jordan, but then you're also frustrated.
[7:02]How can you be so strong and independent?
[7:04]And you're too afraid to tell this guy that you were at work and what you were doing.
[7:09]Yeah.
[7:10]So that's, that's the nuance of Jordan.
[7:12]And that's what I wanted to bring this time around.
[7:14]Well, I totally got that.
[7:16]And unless they would happen to have a thing for a flea market, you know, aficionados,
[7:20]you know.
[7:21]Listen.
[7:22]Yeah.
[7:23]Okay.
[7:24]The flea market scene.
[7:26]So as I said, the case is inspired by two cases that I covered that I could not shake.
[7:32]One, when I was nine months pregnant with my son, and I remember being when I hosted
[7:37]the show deadline crime with Tamron Hall was the, I actually ended the show after this
[7:41]this particular case.
[7:42]I was in the audio booth and from his recording, the voiceover for this case and the
[7:48]woman who had gone missing and was ultimately found murdered was pregnant.
[7:54]And I thought at the time, there are so many moms reading about, you know, baby Einstein
[8:00]or whatever.
[8:01]And I'm in an audio booth reading of the elementary book, but, you know, it's crazy.
[8:05]And that was my life.
[8:06]So for me, that was inspired, the case is up as fire, but the flea market truly, and
[8:11]this is true.
[8:12]My aunt, who's no longer with us, used to take me to this flea market on the side of
[8:17]the road.
[8:18]Like, I think it was called Lancaster, Texas, and it, and I visually describe this flea
[8:23]market that you see Jordan end up that it was from my real.
[8:27]It sounded like something where my aunt, and I'm telling you from the glasses to the
[8:33]positioning, I've been to that little Texas flea market.
[8:36]I just moved it to Indiana.
[8:37]Oh my gosh.
[8:38]Yeah.
[8:39]Even with how it smelled.
[8:40]I don't even know why.
[8:41]I was in the flea market so much, but I don't know, it was just such an emblematic moment
[8:46]for her relationship.
[8:47]But anyway, moving on.
[8:48]I was glad, by the way, that, so Jordan gets herself into these crazy situations, right?
[8:54]Where, you know, she should be there like police with a warrant, but instead she's just
[8:57]like knocking on people's doors.
[8:59]And I found myself getting really worried, because you get very attached to these
[9:02]characters.
[9:03]At one point, she emails her friend Joe, or texts them, and just like, she's like, oh,
[9:07]you know, nobody in the world even knows where I am in sense of like, I care, and I was
[9:11]like, thank goodness.
[9:12]Finally, you know, finally, she does this.
[9:15]But it's, you know, again, that's the life of a reporter.
[9:17]I can tell you, I guess it was in the late 90s.
[9:20]There was a series of crimes in this park, and myself and my camera guy went on a sting
[9:27]with the police department.
[9:29]They wouldn't let you do that.
[9:30]Now, they certainly wouldn't let me do it, but back then, and I'm in camo, in the bushes,
[9:36]with my camera guy, and the police have on bulletproofs best.
[9:40]And there's this moment, truly, where I am like, what?
[9:44]My mom, I'm like 22 years old, and then I'm going to die.
[9:49]I'm hiding in the bushes of a sting in a park.
[9:53]I could have been killed, and my parents would not have known where I was, right?
[9:58]Now, I'm at work, and so with, with, with,
[10:00]with Jordan to your point, I needed her to be aware of the danger, but still willing to go that far
[10:07]from Marla, the missing mom, or to find out what's going on with her. So there was that moment
[10:13]of, wait a minute, you would surely tell one person where you are. And we see that even now
[10:18]with technology, so many cases that I could bring up in real time where technology is the last
[10:24]footprint or the last handprint or the last anything of an individual, whether it's pinging,
[10:28]which I've had a lot of cases solve where the pinging of the phone or a last text message
[10:34]or a last photo. And that's why Jordan brings that into action. Oh my gosh. Well, at least she
[10:40]reached out. I was worried. You're such a concern for us. I am concerned about this character.
[10:46]I know. She's a mess. She's a mess, but she's got a good heart. She's got a great heart.
[10:51]Yes, she's great. And actually one of the things I really like about Jordan is all the
[10:55]the relationships she makes with people along the way, which end up becoming very useful to her.
[11:00]But just this notion that like you have to be nice to everybody and like everybody,
[11:06]you never know where it's going. It shouldn't be nice for the sake of being nice because
[11:09]they might be useful. That's not what I'm trying to say, but just like her relationships with
[11:13]everyone from someone who works at the courthouse is somebody here and like all these people
[11:19]that dot her past that she's able to sort of leverage when she needs help because she's such a nice
[11:23]person. Yeah. You know, it was important for the reader to experience that I wanted you, the reader,
[11:30]to see yourself as an ally or friend because as you continue to read the story, that's how it
[11:36]plays out, right? If you start reading, Jordan stops on that page, right? Yes. Yes.
[11:40]And that's how I visualize it in that if you keep reading, that keeps Jordan going and that keeps
[11:47]her to solve the case. But she needs these relationships. This would have been no fun to write it.
[11:53]Jordan met all by myself. You know, you needed, and she needs these people to work along with
[12:02]her some more intimately than others to get and again, that's real reporting. I've
[12:08]as I harken back once again to my reporting days, you know, I one job, I was the late night
[12:14]reporter. I'm like 11 p.m. until 7 a.m. I can't remember. It was really overnight. Nothing good
[12:19]happens overnight. And knocking on the door. And like my camera guy, Chris Mathis, who actually
[12:25]texted me this morning, saying congratulations. He would sit in the car. And this is the truth.
[12:30]I'm going to go knock on the door. You don't turn the car off because, you know, I don't know
[12:35]who's opening that door. And if we're both out of the car, we can't drive off. And I'm now
[12:41]knocking on the door of, you know, some alleged gang member who was involved in the shooting.
[12:46]And this is the last address. So we're trying to figure out who lives at this home, knock, knock,
[12:50]knock, knock. And I'm looking back at Chris, like, keep the door open. A lot of me have to run.
[12:55]I don't know who's coming to the door. And that happened to me a lot over the years reporting,
[13:01]you know, even with the missing, the missing storyline with Marla, I got chills last night thinking
[13:08]about how many cases that I covered that were similar. You know, I had two front of mine,
[13:15]but I started to go through just my memory bank and allowing myself to dig deeper
[13:22]into understanding why I want Jordan to cover this particular case. And the name just started to
[13:28]flood in. And that's why writing Jordan brought different challenges, you know, for sure,
[13:34]the biggest challenge is getting people to understand that Tamron Hall from the talk show actually
[13:38]wrote this book, right? This is I love my day job. And I love that people know me for my day job,
[13:43]but that in my time away from the set, this story poured from my soul and this character and the
[13:50]friendships and the the allies, the love story, I wanted your heart to race with this one. The first
[13:57]I wrote in SAG Harbor. We were there and it was the pandemic. And this book was written in the city
[14:04]and Chelsea, New York most of the time. And I feel even when I reread the book, the heartbeat of it,
[14:11]right? It's just a more pop up. And I think that was the location change, which is a phenomenal part
[14:16]of this experience. So all those who are interested in writing or starting out, I never knew that
[14:22]even where you write has an impact on what you write. And it did in this book. It's much more
[14:27]heart pounding and pop up, pop up, pop up. So maybe for all 10 books in the series, you have to write
[14:32]them in different locations. As long as it's not as cold as the day we hung out, let's have your
[14:37]book cup and Hawaii. And then I'll stay a little longer to write my next book. I will plan them
[14:44]in warm response or now on. Yes. That would be good. Well, there's another sort of through line of
[14:52]the book, which is the tension between being Jordan being out in the field, investigative reporter
[14:59]versus the coveted anchor chair, which is totally different. And where does she want to end up? And
[15:04]where does everybody think she wants to end up? And what does she really want in her heart?
[15:09]And is it okay to not want what everybody wants and to admit to yourself and all that? And then
[15:15]I think of your career, like, are you happy with being you're essentially being a chair,
[15:20]you know, versus out in the fields essentially right for a talk show? How do you know about it?
[15:25]And so the talk show is a hybrid of all of those things, right? Because we still, you know,
[15:29]do shows on the road. I'm still interactive with the audience. We get like 180 people
[15:35]a show in our audience. But to the point of that question, there were times where I was,
[15:41]you know, at the today show, for example, or even at MSNBC. And I felt inauthentic to myself
[15:46]in that I'm a journalist. I'm inside, but I want to be out with people. So at the today show,
[15:51]you know, the joy of my day, honestly, was when we would walk outside on the plaza to say,
[15:55]hi, and I have some colleagues whom I won't name. They'd say, it's freezing. We have to go out
[15:59]there today. And I'm like, yes, you know, it was because it reminded me of the connection versus
[16:04]a connection to a camera. And that's what I loved about reporting, being able to get out of my
[16:11]car and talk to people and and listen to them. I mean, just, you know, touching someone on the
[16:16]shoulder changes the trajectory of the interview, just having that connection or even standing
[16:22]outside of courtroom and the scramble of reporters. And we're all pushing you on TV. You see all
[16:28]those mics. Well, those mics are being held by people. And sometimes I was the smallest. And I
[16:33]am sticking out like breathing into my, you know, cameraman's armpit like, oh, you know, trying to get
[16:38]my camera up my mic up to them to the stand. I'm closest to the person who was being interviewed.
[16:44]So I with this talk show have the best of both worlds where I'm able to sit down and intimately
[16:50]interview someone but have 180 co-host humans living, breathing, empathetic creatures. And I can
[16:59]feel that energy. And we do three live shows a week and two tape shows a week. And in the live
[17:05]shows in particular, in real time, I've sometimes shifted my trajectory because I can feel the
[17:12]audience. I can feel that motion. So for me, it's the best of both worlds. But to the point of Jordan
[17:19]and her dilemma, I think it's a dilemma that so many reporters have. You, you, the big chair, right,
[17:25]the big bucks, the big name. Your name is on the billboard. They're not often, you know, reporters
[17:30]on the billboard. So all of the, the trappings of journalism that make it a little glamorous, that make
[17:36]it celebrity. It's right there in front of her. But she is not built that way. And she's following it
[17:43]but very, very conflicted about this notion of being the celebrity anchor. Even though her work
[17:51]has put her in the position to be that. And she also has a point of view about even like posing with
[17:56]her arms crossed. You hate that? Yeah. You know me too well, man. Okay. That was that little, my friends
[18:05]all know this story. And in my, my team here, I had a very hard and fast rule about folding my arms
[18:11]because over the years, 30 years of being a journalist, and we do photo shoots and headshots,
[18:17]every female journalist was asked to fold her hand. As if it's just this suddenly I took, I don't know,
[18:24]it's just so, and I had a rule for a very long time that I would not be photographed folding my arms in
[18:31]one of these like stage things. And recently, like I guess about a year ago, I said, okay,
[18:36]let me lighten up. I don't want people to think, you know, because, you know, that they have
[18:40]the magazines and whatnot have created control. And they said, you know, can you fold your arms?
[18:45]I said, okay, I don't normally do this, but I'll do it. But I hope you don't use this picture.
[18:50]They use the picture. I'll never fold my arms. And then I will never ever. So anyone listening,
[18:57]if you see it, you better hold on to it as a collector's eye. I can't do it. It just, but it,
[19:04]that that speaks to again, how we define authority, right, particularly with women. And that's
[19:10]what we see in Jordan. We see it in her colleagues, how the authority of a woman is challenged
[19:17]in the newsroom. And I've always thought that that was, it was such fertile ground. You know,
[19:22]when I was a reporter or anchor and you were reporting on, I don't know, a paid disparity in women,
[19:28]right? And suddenly you want to look in the camera and go, and it's happening right here now.
[19:35]This guy next to me is making way more money. And I can't wear the same shirt entire every day,
[19:42]because if I do, you'll write in. So I make less than a guy next to me. And on top of that,
[19:47]I have to present in a different way, which costs money that the networks don't cover. Or,
[19:53]you know, we talk about the growing number of female CEOs, but, you know, there was a time,
[19:59]not very long.
[20:00]Oh, I think in the last five years,
[20:01]every news executive was a major network was a male.
[20:05]And then we are, you know,
[20:06]so all of these things happen in every industry,
[20:09]but people forget it happens in this industry
[20:11]that reports on others.
[20:14]And that's the irony there that we see.
[20:16]Interesting, especially given who is watching the news.
[20:19]Right, who watches, who do the main consumers of, okay,
[20:22]who consumes the most, who votes, who, you know,
[20:24]keep the whales on, the axis, yeah.
[20:28]Okay, well, it'll be funny to put like little captions.
[20:30]I mean, you'd probably get fired,
[20:32]but you know what I mean?
[20:32]Like if somebody were to put, yeah, like,
[20:34]all these things underneath, you know,
[20:36]like the International Women's Day takeover or something,
[20:39]you know?
[20:39]Yeah.
[20:40]And if imagine in all of our lives
[20:41]that can happen, but especially women.
[20:43]Yeah.
[20:45]You do talk in the book too about the disparity in coverage
[20:48]and how there's like missing white women's syndrome
[20:51]and how that gets disproportionate amounts of coverage
[20:53]in the news as well.
[20:54]And can you speak to that?
[20:55]Yeah, you know, that is something
[20:56]that we talked about and we see in the first book
[21:00]where Jordan is in watch where they have,
[21:03]as we watch, she is following the disappearance
[21:06]of missing black girls on the south side of Chicago
[21:09]and the conversation in the news room
[21:12]that happens, why the decision is made
[21:14]that one person gets to be the lead over the other.
[21:17]And when that book came out,
[21:19]this was exactly when the world was having this debate
[21:23]with Gabby Petito.
[21:25]And I was booked on a number of shows to talk about it.
[21:28]And I said, listen, Gabby Petito's family deserves
[21:32]absolutely to get justice and like any parent,
[21:36]you want your child to be the lead.
[21:37]So it was unfair to them in my point of view
[21:40]to have them answer that question of why does she,
[21:44]it's my child, my child should be the lead
[21:46]and everyone should feel that way.
[21:48]The challenge is the answer and why
[21:51]and the reality that, you know,
[21:53]the evening news is 30 minutes.
[21:55]So if we're going to put everyone in that 30 minutes
[21:59]who's missing or the three, you don't have any other news.
[22:03]And so then how does one pick the lead?
[22:06]And I think it's an unanswerable question.
[22:08]I think it is one that is about race.
[22:11]I think it's about gender.
[22:12]I think it's about socioeconomic.
[22:14]I think, you know, John Benet Ramsey, for example,
[22:18]hit a lot of, they were wealthy.
[22:20]They lived in this exclusive neighborhood.
[22:22]She was beautiful.
[22:23]She was blonde.
[22:24]Was also the weirdness, if you will, of this pageant world.
[22:28]So check a lot of boxes of why a news executive would say,
[22:33]oh, this is good.
[22:34]On the flip side, a woman, you know,
[22:37]who might be a sex worker.
[22:38]Oh, well, of course that happened to her.
[22:40]So why eat enemy these tropes and these awful things
[22:44]that we think of those who are the least among us
[22:47]and why they don't beat.
[22:48]So there's a one answer.
[22:50]It's not just a straight line to race.
[22:52]It's not just a straight line to gender.
[22:53]It's many, many things.
[22:55]But most of all, it's ratings.
[22:59]And what they believe will get the ratings from the masses.
[23:02]It's like the morning show in real life.
[23:04]It is the morning show and that too
[23:07]was inspired by a real place that I worked, not named Oz.
[23:11]So there you have it.
[23:12]By the way, another thing I will never, you know,
[23:17]relax about again is this online gaming world
[23:20]that you highlight a little bit in the book too
[23:22]of how people can do all sorts of bad things.
[23:25]I mean, I guess you know this intellectually,
[23:27]but seeing it play out here is another thing.
[23:30]And that again is why the book I hope
[23:33]when people read the book that they see what sets
[23:36]Jordan apart and myself in bringing this novel to life,
[23:40]that was inspired by a real life.
[23:42]I am not in the gaming world.
[23:44]They had no interest.
[23:45]My brother had an Atari.
[23:46]That was my like to it.
[23:48]But I covered a story of a man so obsessed with gaming
[23:53]that after his wife went missing for many years
[23:56]and he finally confessed.
[23:58]They got him to confess because they gave him an expos.
[24:02]He had befriended a person online
[24:06]and with that person conspired to,
[24:10]and ultimately he did murder his wife.
[24:13]And so this sinister nature of what happens in the gaming world,
[24:17]we talk much more about it than ever,
[24:20]but I was oblivious.
[24:22]And I'm just looking for the parental control
[24:24]on Paw Patrol.
[24:25]That's my stay.
[24:26]I'm like, okay, Paw Patrol.
[24:27]Time limit.
[24:28]I'm just at that point with it for a year or I'm just
[24:31]limiting the amount of time.
[24:33]But yeah, this individual who murdered his wife years
[24:37]could not find her remains.
[24:39]And I met her family and went out too.
[24:41]They had a family lakeside home
[24:43]and I spent the day with them
[24:45]and just beautiful families supported.
[24:48]They were just left reeling by her disappearance
[24:52]and for him to confess after negotiating an ex-box.
[24:57]Fun real.
[24:58]It's unreal.
[24:58]It's unreal.
[24:59]And that's the depths of,
[25:01]I think people ask about thriller writing
[25:03]or crime stories and what is the fascination
[25:08]and that I could have jumped into a lot
[25:10]of other different types of books
[25:11]that might have been easier for people
[25:13]to accept me as the writer behind it.
[25:16]But this true crime world and having a sister
[25:20]who was the victim of a crime, it's fascinating.
[25:24]And from Jordan, you get to see that,
[25:28]this is not a cutout person on a TV screen.
[25:31]This is a person who goes home and thinks about this case.
[25:34]This is a person who is so outraged by the wrong
[25:39]that's happened or potentially with Marla
[25:42]that she wants to give the family peace.
[25:44]You know, this is not just reporting for Jordan.
[25:48]This is about helping a family,
[25:50]helping children who now don't know
[25:53]where their mother is, get that answer.
[25:55]And that's what's so gut-wrenching about,
[25:57]you know, some of the decisions that she makes you understand
[26:00]and you wonder if you would go that far to help a family.
[26:04]And I think most people would.
[26:05]Jordan just happens to go even further.
[26:07]She does.
[26:09]I know we're almost at the end,
[26:11]but would you mind just sharing what happened
[26:13]with your sister because I know we talked about it
[26:15]at the book club and it was so moving and all that.
[26:18]But much like in this story, my sister was a woman
[26:23]who was a survivor of the domestic violence in her life.
[26:28]And one night my family got a phone call
[26:32]that she'd been found in her home outside a problem
[26:35]in her swimming pool.
[26:37]And her death was declared an unsolved case of murder.
[26:43]And we were told by police at the time
[26:47]they had a suspect they were all but certain,
[26:49]but they didn't feel they could get a conviction.
[26:51]I waited for many, many years to tell my sister's story,
[26:55]but I was at an event supporting survivors
[26:57]of domestic violence and shared my sister's story
[27:01]and started not on a journey to find out who did it
[27:05]because we've always known.
[27:06]And there's a different level of frustration
[27:08]with criminal justice and understanding that
[27:10]and protection of victims that may be in another book
[27:13]at another time.
[27:15]But our loss and our grief led to our family, her son Leroy
[27:22]and our family working with survivors of domestic violence
[27:26]to help not only those who are victims,
[27:30]but family members who don't know quite what to say
[27:33]and what to do and that was our challenge.
[27:35]With my sister, we like so many others thought,
[27:38]that tough love, you can do it,
[27:40]you can leave would be enough and it's not.
[27:44]And finding the right words to comfort,
[27:47]the right words to support the right tools.
[27:50]It's my mission now.
[27:52]We loved my sister and she knew she was loved
[27:54]and supported.
[27:55]She also knew we were frustrated
[27:57]and that not with her,
[27:59]but that frustration of playing someone you love
[28:02]that you wanna save them.
[28:03]And so through safe horizon and day one
[28:06]and other great organizations,
[28:07]I've been able to share a little of her story
[28:09]with the goal of helping family members support people they love
[28:15]who are experiencing domestic violence.
[28:17]Wow. Well, I'm again, so sorry.
[28:20]And it's amazing that you're using your story
[28:22]to help other people, although not a surprise, knowing.
[28:26]Oh my gosh, watch where they hide.
[28:29]Everyone must read this book. Congratulations.
[28:31]Any parting advice for aspiring authors?
[28:34]You know, I think the biggest thing is take the leap.
[28:38]I, it much like when you have a child,
[28:40]if you wait around as the perfect time,
[28:42]the perfect minute, the perfect second,
[28:44]you probably won't find unless you're very lucky
[28:46]human on this planet.
[28:48]I think for so many of us, particularly women,
[28:51]I'm now 53.
[28:53]I wrote my first book when I was 50.
[28:55]We allow the fear of rejection or the need for perfection
[29:00]to hold us in place and neither serves our soul.
[29:03]Perfection doesn't serve you well and fear certainly does not.
[29:06]Go for it.
[29:07]Love it.
[29:08]Tamron, thank you so much.
[29:09]Thanks for coming.
[29:10]Thank you.
[29:11]Oh, thank you for the support.
[29:12]Thank you.
[29:13]Thank you.
[29:14]Bye-bye.
[29:15]Thank you.
[29:16]Bye-bye.
[29:18]Thanks for listening to momstone have time to read books.
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