Kennedy Ryan, THIS COULD BE US
[0:04]Welcome to Moms Don't Have Time to Be Books with Zippy.
[0:07]I'm the host, Zippy Owens.
[0:09]I am an author, my latest is blank, pub date march first and novel.
[0:13]I'm also a podcaster, obviously, a publisher, a bookstore owner, and so much more.
[0:18]If you love books, you're in the right place.
[0:21]In fact, we call it the Zippyverse, or really, the LA Times called it the Zippyverse,
[0:25]and we're going with it.
[0:27]Go to Zippy Owens.com to learn more and follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens.
[0:33]Kennedy Ryan is the author of This Could Be Us,
[0:36]A Rita and Adi Award winner.
[0:38]USA Today, best-selling author Kennedy Ryan writes for women from all walks of life,
[0:42]empowering them and placing them firmly in the center of each story
[0:45]and in charge of their own destinies, her heroes respect cherish and lose their minds
[0:48]for the women who capture their hearts.
[0:50]Kennedy and her writings have been featured in chicken soup for the soul.
[0:53]USA Today, Entertainment Weekly, Glamour, Cosmopolitan, Time, Omegasine, and many others.
[0:58]She is a wife to her lifetime lover and mother to an extraordinary son
[1:02]and we talk all about her son in this episode.
[1:04]Welcome, Kennedy.
[1:05]Thank you so much for coming on Moms.
[1:06]Don't have time to read books to discuss your latest.
[1:09]This could be us.
[1:10]Congratulations.
[1:11]Thank you for having me.
[1:13]I'm so excited to be here.
[1:14]Oh, so excited to have you.
[1:17]We got to meet in person at the LA Times book festival last year, which was so nice.
[1:21]Yeah, thanks for coming to the store.
[1:23]You have to come by in LA on your time.
[1:25]I will.
[1:26]I will.
[1:26]I will.
[1:26]I'm, my tour stop is long beach.
[1:28]I have no sense.
[1:30]But not too bad, not too bad, maybe I'll make a bite.
[1:35]But your whole team is always still amazing.
[1:37]So thank you guys for always being so supportive and sweet.
[1:41]Oh, my gosh.
[1:41]Well, Sherri and Diana on my team are absolutely obsessed.
[1:44]I think they've been the biggest, particularly Diana has been like, you know, you are like
[1:51]her number one author of all time to have a message.
[1:53]That's okay.
[1:55]I enjoy it.
[1:56]I enjoy it.
[1:57]How good?
[1:59]Before I did this podcast, I didn't realize that like, it would actually really mean that
[2:03]much to authors to hear from individual fans.
[2:06]Like, I would, I thought like, oh, well, they must get that all the time.
[2:09]But it actually, it really makes it a difference.
[2:11]It really does.
[2:13]It means a lot.
[2:14]So especially when it's someone you respect, I mean, it means something all the time.
[2:18]But then when it's like, people you really respect and who you look at the books they love
[2:23]and you're like, wow, you have great taste in books and you're like,
[2:26]Oh, I love that.
[2:29]Okay, this could be us, which is fabulous.
[2:33]Tell everybody what this is about and I didn't read the previous book.
[2:37]So now I feel like did I miss something like, anyway, you know what?
[2:41]I have some behind me.
[2:43]Now I'll have to go back.
[2:45]Yes.
[2:46]So you read this could be us, right?
[2:47]But you could read before I like go.
[2:49]That's right.
[2:49]I love that though, because I really, it lives in the universe, the Skyland universe.
[2:55]That's a series and it's three best friends and they all interconnect.
[3:00]But I really want someone to be able to come in at any point and read, you know,
[3:04]and not feel like they missed something.
[3:06]So I'm glad that when you read this could be us, which is solar dad's story.
[3:09]The second friend in the group that you didn't feel lost.
[3:12]Not at all.
[3:13]The first book is before I let go.
[3:16]And that's Yasmin's story, very distinct.
[3:19]And for everyone who read, it's interesting because for everyone who read before I let go,
[3:24]this book is very different than that one.
[3:26]And I had this, like, sense of, oh my gosh, I hope people aren't expecting that same thing.
[3:31]It does a lot with mental health.
[3:33]She's going through a depression journey in the first book.
[3:36]And it's a little anger.
[3:39]It has some heaviness to it.
[3:40]It's a woman, I really think of it as a woman reclaiming her power.
[3:44]You know, she is the domestic goddess.
[3:48]Like she is the one who throws all the parties.
[3:50]She has the best charcuterie board.
[3:51]She has the best vina, you know, rest of people are.
[3:54]She is the opposite of me, by the way, Zippy.
[3:56]I am none of those things.
[3:58]But solar dad is.
[3:59]And she, you know, she's incredibly intelligent.
[4:03]And, but she applies all of that to her home.
[4:07]And she, she sees her home as an industry, you know, as her own, like her own conglomerate.
[4:14]And her children, she's very, it's just three beautiful daughters.
[4:18]And she sees her purpose, like as making sure that these women feel safe,
[4:23]and that they grow up to be wonderful humans who impact the world in it, whichever way they decide.
[4:28]And that's enough for her, you know.
[4:31]And I really wanted the three women in these books to feel very distinct.
[4:35]Like Yasmin is she does, you know, she has kids and she runs a business.
[4:39]But the third friend, Hendrix, doesn't want kids, you know, it's completely into her career.
[4:45]And I wanted them all to be to be ascribed dignity and to be ascribed respect for their choices,
[4:51]which I think is really the essence of what feminism is, you know.
[4:56]And so often, I'm not seeing women who are stay at her moms, really esteemed as like,
[5:02]this is an amazing choice.
[5:04]This is, you know, a worthy purpose.
[5:06]This is not just, there's nothing lazy about it.
[5:09]And I really wanted Sola dad to shine that way.
[5:12]So she's a stay at her mom, given her, you know, given her whole life over to a family,
[5:16]supporting her husband, supporting her kids.
[5:18]And then her husband, I mean, ultimate betrayal.
[5:23]I get so many messages on TikTok about I want to, I want to, well, you know, her husband,
[5:29]ultimate betrayal.
[5:31]And he leaves their family in an incredibly vulnerable position.
[5:35]And she is in a place where she has to all of a sudden become the breadwinner,
[5:39]you know, and still do all the things that still create the nurturing environment that she's
[5:43]one of her children.
[5:44]But she also realizes there's a lot of herself that she's lost.
[5:49]And so this is a romance novel, you know, but it is also a romance with herself.
[5:56]You know, it is definitely about a woman who is rediscovering parts of herself that she lost,
[6:02]especially as women where moms, where wives, where friends, where sisters, but we are people,
[6:08]you know, and so often like those things that make us individual and they make a special,
[6:13]those things that have always been inside of us, the dreams, the ambitions,
[6:17]all of that has often been subservient to all the other things that we've become.
[6:23]And so this is really about Soladat like refining herself, reclaiming her power, self actualizing,
[6:30]you know, in a romance novel, she's self partnering, you know, she's dating herself.
[6:35]At one point, she says, what would it look like if I was the love of my own life, you know,
[6:41]and so I know a lot of people are like, is it a romance, you know, and there is a love interest,
[6:46]but I really in this novel, when it's a look at sisterly love, you know, I wanted to look at friendship
[6:53]love, one of my favorite lines from the book is the Art Enough Sonnets for friendship, you know,
[6:58]what that really means. It's so often we are putting so much emphasis on romantic love, which
[7:03]married 27 years, I get it, I love it, romantic love here to stay, but also,
[7:11]esteeming sisterly love, friend love, love of yourself, which really has to start first,
[7:17]I think to have a strong foundation for every other expression of love. So this is her journey,
[7:23]you know, and I'm really excited for people to go on it with her. Oh my gosh,
[7:28]I could listen to you talk all day. I'm just like, where's the, where's the popcorn? I just
[7:33]take my feet up and like listen to go, you're like inspiring, like, you know, holding up women
[7:39]and who are we? And let's do this. Oh my gosh, I'm going to popcorn too, Zimmy.
[7:46]Oh my goodness. That's amazing. Well, you have this whole part of the book that you're describing,
[7:51]but there's another whole part about autistic kids. There's the twins who are autistic,
[7:57]you have an autistic son. I actually just interviewed a woman named Paige Lael. I don't know if
[8:02]you know her. I have to, I want you to do a book event. Maybe I could like come on with something.
[8:06]She wrote it when she was 21, she's like 23 about being undiagnosed autistic for until
[8:11]she was 15. But I read them back to back and I was like, I have to introduce these others to each
[8:17]other. But that also was like a fascinating part of the book with it with the totally different,
[8:22]and I know it comes from personal experience. Can you talk a little bit about that and
[8:27]including that and how to balance even the two different storylines and all that?
[8:31]Yeah, you know, it felt natural for me as far as balancing the storylines because the two boys,
[8:37]Adam and Aaron, they're twins, they're autistic, and they are the sons of the single dad who is
[8:43]I love interest due to cross. And it felt to me, I know what you mean by like balancing the two,
[8:50]but it's such a part of who Judah is. And it's such an extension of how I built his character
[8:57]that it's like as you get to know Judah, there's you have no choice, but to get to know his
[9:01]sons because how he cares for them and how he loves them and how he parents is such a huge part
[9:08]of who he is. There's no way to get to know Judah without getting to know his boys.
[9:13]Yeah. And so you mentioned that I have a son who's autistic. Like I mentioned, I've been married
[9:19]for 27 years. He's now 23. So he was diagnosed when he was two. You know, so that's 21 years,
[9:26]so much has changed, you know, in the landscape of autism. We had such a hard start and some
[9:33]of that was circumstantial because people don't believe me. I mean, they're like, you would have
[9:38]to write this. My son was diagnosed with autism on a Thursday and the next day my husband lost his
[9:43]job. And it just created this kind of devastating like not that we're devastated about him,
[9:50]but just all of your money drying up. And at that point, like,
[9:54]ought insurance covered absolutely nothing. So it was a tough time. And there was a lot that we
[10:00]We're negotiating as a family.
[10:01]It tried us as a family, especially considering
[10:04]how it happened for us.
[10:06]It tried our marriage, you know?
[10:08]So I have always had a heart for families
[10:12]who have children with autism.
[10:13]And obviously actually autistic people.
[10:16]I now have an auction, you know,
[10:18]autism auction that I run every April,
[10:20]which is Autism Awareness Month
[10:21]in conjunction with Culture City
[10:23]to raise money for autism.
[10:25]Like I am, I'm in, you know, I'm an advocate.
[10:29]I used to run a foundation for families
[10:30]who have children with autism.
[10:32]It has been a huge part of my life's work,
[10:36]but I never merge these two passions, you know,
[10:39]of advocacy and uplifting our community
[10:43]and serving our community any way that I could.
[10:46]A community that has embraced our family
[10:48]and been so good to our family and my work as an author.
[10:52]Like I never merge those.
[10:54]And I talk about in the author's notes
[10:56]how I was hesitant, you know?
[10:58]It's like, it's something that's so personal,
[11:01]but people have such distinct opinions about everything,
[11:05]you know, with autism, even like how you refer to
[11:07]is it autistic?
[11:09]Is it a person with autism?
[11:11]Is it, you know, there's all these different ideas
[11:13]about how to be autistic?
[11:16]And I was hesitant because I always joke
[11:18]that my first rule of writing is Hippocratic,
[11:21]first do no harm.
[11:23]And I never wanted to write something
[11:26]or do something that will be perceived
[11:28]as harmful to the community has been such a support to us.
[11:31]And I was always hesitant to write about it.
[11:33]And then when I got to this story, this guy, Judah,
[11:38]I just, I had to break it out, you know?
[11:40]And there's so much of my, this is gonna sound weird.
[11:43]There's so much of my husband, and Judah, you know?
[11:46]As watching him grow as a parent,
[11:49]watching the patience that this life has forced on us.
[11:56]You know, you become very patient
[11:59]and you become very compassionate.
[12:01]You, when you see people having a hard time in public,
[12:05]you don't jump to conclusions.
[12:06]You wonder, I wonder if they're dealing
[12:08]with some of the things that we're dealing with.
[12:09]You know, it changes you.
[12:11]And I often think like, I think this happened, obviously,
[12:15]Miles has his own life, my son has his own life,
[12:17]his own path, this happened for his own journey.
[12:20]But I'm in his life, you know?
[12:22]And it happened to us too.
[12:25]And I think it's made me a better mom.
[12:26]I think it's made me a better person, a better friend.
[12:29]And it's done the same for my husband.
[12:31]And it was such a joy to write a man
[12:35]who is that dedicated to his kids.
[12:38]And that's what we see in Judah.
[12:40]It wasn't for me as much a research process with autism
[12:43]because I knew so much about it.
[12:46]It was more that autism is truly a spectrum condition.
[12:49]And I wanted to ensure that this story reflected
[12:52]not just our experiences, not just the experiences
[12:55]of a few people that I have encountered
[12:57]or families that we've assisted.
[12:59]I wanted a broad spectrum of great cross-section
[13:02]of experiences.
[13:03]My son is, they used to call it more impacted.
[13:06]You know, he is, he's older, he's still with us.
[13:09]He's mostly nonverbal, needs a lot of support.
[13:13]There's no way that you would meet my son
[13:15]and not know there's something going on.
[13:18]But there are so many folks on the spectrum who you would meet
[13:21]and it's pretty much like invisible,
[13:23]like it's something they can math.
[13:25]You know, whether it's sensory issues or whatever
[13:27]and you might not ever know.
[13:29]But they also have challenges
[13:30]that need to be respected and supported.
[13:33]And I thought from the twin perspective
[13:36]because they're twin boys,
[13:37]I'm taking two people who are as genetically identical
[13:41]as possible.
[13:42]They're in the same house,
[13:43]they have the same parents, the same circumstances
[13:45]and the way their autism plays out is completely different.
[13:49]And that was just a way for me to show
[13:51]how broad this spectrum is and how different it looks
[13:54]for everyone and how we should respect
[13:57]how it plays out for each individual.
[13:59]I did, my background is journalism.
[14:01]So I'm always, my creative process is always very heavily
[14:04]interview, you know, that's just like muscle memory for me.
[14:08]So the first thing I'm doing once I'm writing is,
[14:11]one of the first things is drafting a list
[14:13]of who I'm gonna talk to.
[14:14]And I knew that I had, I talked to probably 10, 13,
[14:19]different autistic people and parents,
[14:23]actually autistic people and parents,
[14:25]interviews, great conversations,
[14:28]things that haven't happened for us
[14:30]and have happened for other people
[14:31]that, you know, I incorporated into the story.
[14:33]And then another thing that I did
[14:35]that was really for me, like, insurance
[14:38]and making sure is I hired an actually autistic editor,
[14:42]meaning someone who actually has autism
[14:45]and is also an editor, you know,
[14:47]reading from that perspective, making sure that I am giving
[14:52]those characters as much respect as possible
[14:54]that all of the language that I'm using
[14:56]as a scribing dignity is giving them personhood is,
[14:59]you know, all of that is not harmful.
[15:02]That was very important to me.
[15:03]So that was kind of like an added step this time
[15:06]was hiring an actually autistic editor
[15:09]before it got to even my publisher, you know.
[15:12]So there was a lot that I did around that
[15:14]just to take care of those boys
[15:18]and to take care of the representation
[15:20]so that when a parent or even more importantly
[15:23]than a parent, someone who's actually autistic
[15:25]is reading this book doesn't feel hurt or harmed
[15:29]but feels respected.
[15:31]So that was very important.
[15:32]And for people who don't have much experience with autism
[15:35]for them to get kind of a glimpse into what it's like
[15:39]for a lot of our families
[15:40]and a lot of our challenges,
[15:42]but also a lot of our triumphs, you know,
[15:44]and a lot of the things that are special in our families.
[15:47]I want it people who don't have that experience to see it,
[15:51]you know, wow.
[15:53]Does it happen with identical twins
[15:55]that the autism plays out in very different ways
[15:56]or does it present usually?
[15:58]It does.
[15:59]It definitely does.
[16:00]Yeah, it definitely can.
[16:02]I mentioned that I used to run a foundation
[16:03]I ran it for 10 years actually,
[16:05]started in random foundation
[16:07]and we had several twins come through the programs
[16:10]and they would be vastly different.
[16:13]You know, there is a genetic component.
[16:15]We're still trying to understand everything
[16:17]that is going on with autism
[16:19]just like with so many other conditions
[16:20]but there's a genetic component
[16:21]but you can have,
[16:23]I have dealt with families who have four kids
[16:25]and all four kids have autism, you know,
[16:28]and it looks different in each one of them.
[16:30]So, wow.
[16:32]Well, the passion that you speak about this with
[16:36]is so inspiring, honestly.
[16:37]I mean, you have boundless energy clearly
[16:41]and you're not zippy, you do, you do.
[16:44]I'm, it's under eye concealer.
[16:48]No, I mean, to not just cope with your own family situation
[16:52]but to run a foundation and do all these other things
[16:54]and be writing eight million books.
[16:56]I mean, I don't know.
[16:57]So when, how did your own writing career
[16:59]dovetail with that time in your life?
[17:01]When your husband lost his job,
[17:03]like where were you in terms of your writing
[17:05]and journalism and your books
[17:07]and how has that all played out?
[17:09]Right.
[17:09]So my background is journalism with an emphasis in PR
[17:13]and I was working with a lot of non-profits.
[17:16]I was also freelancing writing for magazines.
[17:19]What I started really doing once the autism
[17:22]was a part of our life,
[17:23]was I realized that everything became autism.
[17:26]Like I started this foundation.
[17:28]Of course, I'm raising this beautiful boy who has autism
[17:31]and I found myself on television talking about autism
[17:35]and writing for like chicken soup for the soul
[17:38]about autism and writing and like mom magazine
[17:40]about autism, like everything was autism.
[17:43]And I needed something that was just my own,
[17:46]you know, kind of like so bad.
[17:48]You know, you come to a place where you're like,
[17:49]what's mine?
[17:50]Like what is specifically what pleases me
[17:53]where am I finding personal joy?
[17:56]And there weren't a lot of places of that.
[17:58]It felt like everything was kind of consumed.
[18:01]And I remembered how much I loved reading romance.
[18:04]You know, like I grew up reading romance
[18:06]and to my mother's chagrin.
[18:09]And then, you know, when you get to college a lot of times,
[18:13]you're like, it's time for the serious bumps
[18:15]and I stopped reading romance.
[18:17]I was at a really like place where I needed something
[18:19]of my own and I said,
[18:20]I'm gonna start reading romance again
[18:22]and brought me so much joy.
[18:23]I started reading romance again.
[18:26]And I was like, I am a writer, you know,
[18:29]and I love romance.
[18:30]I wonder if I could.
[18:32]And I wrote, it's ironic, Zippy,
[18:34]because the first book I ever wrote is before I let go,
[18:39]the one that's like,
[18:40]the one of this series.
[18:42]Yeah, I read it like 15 years ago.
[18:44]Never planned to publish it.
[18:46]So it is not my debut novel.
[18:48]It is when my husband reminded me about three years ago.
[18:52]And it became kind of like, you know,
[18:54]now it's gonna be a television show.
[18:56]It's I'm like, honey, I'll see you, you know what I mean?
[19:00]But I just wrote that to see if I could.
[19:03]And I was like, it's not good.
[19:05]My husband was like, it really is.
[19:06]My sister said it really is.
[19:07]I slid it under the bed forgot about it.
[19:10]And then it's so funny because I would,
[19:13]my son was a lot of kids who have autism
[19:15]are obsessed with water,
[19:17]water play and watching water.
[19:19]And my son at that time in his life loved water.
[19:22]We would go to this river every day.
[19:24]It was like,
[19:25]all the families that come to this river,
[19:27]we would go to this river and not sit on the river bank
[19:29]and he play in the water.
[19:30]And this town called Rivermont started kind of like building
[19:34]in my mind and I'd write a little bit of it every day.
[19:36]And that became my debut novel was this story
[19:39]that built around this river.
[19:41]And I was still running the foundation.
[19:45]I got a book deal when I was 40 years old.
[19:47]It's never too late.
[19:49]You know, that's when I got my first book deal.
[19:51]And I was doing it all for a while.
[19:53]You know, I was writing.
[19:54]I was running the foundation.
[19:55]I was, you know, still working with another nonprofit.
[20:00]with journalism. And it just became a place where I was like, this is a lot. And really the reason
[20:06]I stopped running the foundation was redundancy. I mentioned that, you know, we started it 20,
[20:11]you know, we were 20 years ago when this was diagnosed. So little existed as far as services
[20:17]and, you know, support. And now there's so much. And so what I saw was the things that I was
[20:23]providing are now provided by the government, you know, and by other agencies. And so I decided
[20:29]that I would shut that down and really direct people toward larger organizations that were doing
[20:34]it much better than I was anyway. But I still wanted, you know, to be a part of the community. So
[20:40]that's when I started along with another author friend, Ginger Scott, the auction, the online book
[20:46]auction that we do every year. And so I continued writing. So that's kind of like where the journey
[20:52]kind of meanders is being like in autism all the time. And being consumed, you know, really by
[21:00]that is what drove me back into reading, which led me to writing. And then when I'm writing,
[21:05]I'm always looking for how can I give back to autism. And it all just kind of it merges. For me,
[21:10]the auction, which is every April with culture city is a great solution because it actually
[21:17]aligns with what I do for a living now. So I love it. Writing is my favorite thing that I've ever
[21:23]done. I always tell people that for me, writing is not another sound so precious. Writing is not
[21:29]for me just vocational. It feels like a calling. You know, it feels to me like I was put on this
[21:34]earth to tell stories that will impact people. It feels for me like there's something so impactful
[21:39]about people seeing themselves in pages of fiction seeing their experiences, especially when they
[21:46]aren't used to seeing it. Like especially when you open a book and you're not used to seeing
[21:50]an autistic person who is, you know, being ascribed in a D and navigating the world. And for me,
[21:56]especially when you're not used to seeing, you know, black women, you know, who are doing these
[22:00]amazing things, who are being esteemed and loved on. And you know, I like for marginalized groups,
[22:06]especially vulnerable communities. That's where I like to write because we don't see ourselves
[22:12]in culture portrayed in a way that's authentic, but also not stereotypical, positive, but not unreal.
[22:22]You know, like I don't want to be, I'm not somebody likes to write. Care of visitor. It has to be
[22:26]positive. It has to be, this can't be a villain. They can't be of this. I want to be authentic.
[22:31]I want to be real. So that's what I do. That's amazing. So what advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[22:37]Figure out why you want to write? You know, I think it took me a while to figure out my why.
[22:44]And when you figure out your why, it really determines what you write for me it did. When I first
[22:50]started writing, the first books I wrote were great. Like they're great. Sure they are. You know,
[22:56]and it's the same craft as the same if it's talent talent. But when I figured out that I really
[23:03]wanted to write about things that meant something to me, it changed what I wanted to write. It
[23:07]changed what felt like success to me because for me success is first measured an impact.
[23:13]And I didn't know that one or first started. So I'm chasing what I thought meant success,
[23:17]whether that's making a list and selling lots of books and looking around at my friends and
[23:21]what's making them successful. And if you do those things and it's not yours, it's hollow.
[23:27]And that's just the most incredibly frustrating feeling to put so much into the pursuit of
[23:32]something. And then when you get it, it means nothing. So for me, the advice, there's all kinds
[23:37]of like practical advice you can give like, you know, make sure you're, you know, taking craft courses,
[23:42]but for me, the sole level advice is know why you write. And for me, that affects everything.
[23:50]Like that affects what I write, who I write for and what makes me how I know that I'm successful.
[23:55]And it's not the metrics that other people prescribe. Wow. Amazing.
[24:00]Amazing. What do you do to just like chill out when you're not book touring and writing and advocating
[24:08]and planning things and all of that? What would give me something you do just like for you?
[24:13]Zibi, I am such a boring person. I read, you know, and when I'm writing, I don't get to read as much,
[24:21]but I am an audiobook girl, you know, like, give me the audiobook because I can multitask,
[24:26]you know, so I've always been a voracious reader. I still am as much as I can be. I watch good
[24:33]television. You know, you know, I have my husband and you know, it's sad, but like a lot of our quality
[24:39]time is it watching television together. You know, I think we stay in our shows, you know, like,
[24:47]okay, you can't watch this one without me. And then I have my family. I just moved recently
[24:52]back to North Carolina. We lived in Atlanta for like 20 years. And I love Atlanta. It actually
[24:58]feels probably the most like home because we are lives were there, but my son has never lived close
[25:04]to my family. And he, as I mentioned, is limited verbal, but he would, he started the pandemic was
[25:12]very, very hard on us. Very, very hard on us as it was on so many families. And it was hard on me.
[25:19]And I was diagnosed with depression during the pandemic. And I was in Atlanta. And we were,
[25:24]you know, in this pressure cooker. And my son needs a lot of structure. No school, no services. No,
[25:32]it was hard, you know, and I was going through a hard time. And my mom always knows like,
[25:38]I don't, if you ever have a mom who always knows, you won't take it for granted because my mom
[25:43]always calls at the right time always checks on me when I'm about to collapse, you know. And we were
[25:49]on the phone. And she said some, I had books do, you know, in the pandemic miles was having a hard
[25:56]time. We were having everything was really, really hard and dark. And I didn't recognize at the time
[26:01]that I had depression that I was depressed. And I had a panic attack on the phone. And my mom was
[26:07]here in North Carolina. And she, she said, that's it. I'm coming. You know, she flew to Atlanta
[26:13]was there the next day. She washed the clothes. She cooked the food. She made me go right and took care
[26:18]of my son. And you know, it was, it was so much home and peace. And my husband said, my mom was
[26:24]there a few days. He said, we need to move home. You know, we need to move home. We need support. We
[26:30]need family. My son would walk up to me and he would go, nana granddaddy. Uh, he would name our
[26:37]family members just like start naming them. And he was just in his way telling us, I want my family.
[26:44]And so when you ask, what do I do like, I, there's so much joy I get in spending time with my
[26:50]family. We haven't lived close to them. We hang out. We laugh. We eat, you know, the, we cook. We,
[26:57]we just have a good time. And I, I have not had extended family around me in 20 years. You know,
[27:05]and so that's one of our joys now is spending time with our family. And like I said, reading,
[27:10]like I, if I use, usually if I have bags under my eyes, it's because I stayed up too late,
[27:14]reading, you know, I'll write, write, write. And then it's, it's late. And I'm like, I've been writing
[27:19]for hours. I should go to sleep. Can't shut my brain down. So I start reading a good book.
[27:25]I can relate to that. Kennedy, you were so impressive. You know, your success. It just couldn't
[27:30]happen to a nicer person. So congratulations. And yeah, it's so nice to get to know you more.
[27:36]Yes, absolutely. I hope I get to see this here. You too. Okay. Thanks so much for sharing. Bye.
[27:44]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't
[27:47]forget to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:52]Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[27:57]lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for
[28:02]the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and