Elba Iris Pérez, THE THINGS WE DIDN'T KNOW
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[0:12]and novel.
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[0:33]Alba Iris Perez is the author of The Things We Didn't Know, A Novel.
[0:37]Alba is from Agua Spuenas, Puerto Rico, and spent her early childhood in Morocco, Massachusetts.
[0:44]She taught theater and history at the University of Puerto Rico and RSCBO, and now lives in
[0:48]Houston.
[0:49]She is the author of the El Teatro Como Bandara, a history of street theater in Puerto Rico,
[0:53]and please forgive my accent.
[0:55]I actually don't speak Spanish, which is embarrassing.
[0:58]If you'd like to go to Paris with me, I could probably order you a coffee.
[1:02]Welcome, Alba.
[1:03]Thank you so much for coming on Mom's Don't Have Time to read books to discuss The Things
[1:07]We Didn't Know, A Novel.
[1:09]Thank you for having me.
[1:10]You're welcome.
[1:11]Well, this book woke me up right away, literally, on the edge of the cliff in the car,
[1:17]like the way you immerse the reader from the start, and then paint such a picture.
[1:22]It's such a world, like going to Puerto Rico, and just you're so good at creating experiences
[1:29]in the world.
[1:30]I feel like I've literally gone on a trip.
[1:33]Wow.
[1:34]That's fantastic.
[1:35]I'm glad.
[1:36]I really wanted to do that because War Anoco, where the novel is set, is such a beautiful
[1:43]place.
[1:44]Amazing.
[1:45]Okay.
[1:46]Tell listeners what your book is about, please.
[1:49]So it is about a young girl, Andrea Rodriguez, who is nine years old, and it's a cross-cultural
[1:58]coming of age, debut novel.
[2:01]And it explores of the life of a girl who is living in the 1950s between Puerto Rico and
[2:10]this place called War Anoco, Massachusetts, which is a small factory town.
[2:16]I didn't know if it was a real place or not.
[2:18]Is that embarrassing?
[2:19]Yeah.
[2:20]Can I admit that?
[2:21]If it's called the sex and all of it, that's frozen in time type of place.
[2:27]It was torn down.
[2:29]Oh, okay.
[2:30]And so parts of the streets that were there are still there, but the street where I grew
[2:38]up on, which is why I wrote the novel, was torn down.
[2:42]Got it.
[2:43]So it does exist, but it was torn down.
[2:48]Okay.
[2:49]You really, I have a nine-year-old and a 10-year-old, and I feel like you very well, you captured
[2:54]that mentality and point of view.
[2:57]So well, how did you do that?
[3:00]I mean, I really struggled with it because I'm not nine-year-old anymore.
[3:06]And so you have to get back to it.
[3:10]That place was just so vivid in my mind and it still is and it always will be.
[3:14]And then I just think the place brought me back to it in a very profound way that enabled
[3:21]me to get back in touch with that childhood.
[3:25]Mm-hmm.
[3:26]I love that.
[3:28]Well, there's a domestic dispute factor, right, where the family, I mean, I think I can
[3:34]say this.
[3:35]It was pretty early on where the family leaves and the father stays and the mom is quite
[3:41]depressed.
[3:42]She does not want to be out of her native country.
[3:44]She's not happy.
[3:45]Right.
[3:46]She is really trying hard to escape and you create that dynamic between them that is
[3:51]sort of fraught with tension and fear, so as you're reading, you're like, what's going
[3:55]to happen?
[3:56]Is he going to come back?
[3:57]Where is this going to go?
[3:59]Tell me a little bit about creating that type of not like borderline physical aggression
[4:05]and you're just like waiting.
[4:07]Tell me about that.
[4:08]Well, I think I have to be honest and tell you that I was a theater professor for 25, 30 years.
[4:17]My background is theater.
[4:20]And so I just visualized it and then tried to pause the writing in a way where the action
[4:32]stopped and I describe it.
[4:37]So it's like pauses.
[4:39]So I think it enables the reader to experience it because there's, you know that nothing
[4:46]is happening for a few seconds there.
[4:49]So you can just take it in and visualize it.
[4:53]That's what I tried to do.
[4:57]What is your main hope that people will take away from your book?
[5:01]Well, you know, I was, like I said, a theater professor and then I did a doctorate in
[5:07]history of Puerto Rico and I just became aware of, you know, so many things regarding
[5:16]my own history.
[5:18]And when I was doctoral student, I brought up war on outgoing a class and the professor looked
[5:27]at me like, well, what is she talking about?
[5:31]And the whole classroom turned around and looked at me and, you know, I realized that
[5:37]they had no idea what I was talking about, where war on outgoing was any of that.
[5:43]And so a long conversation ensued and I realized that when people think about Puerto
[5:50]Ricans, they mainly placed them in Puerto Rico, obviously, and in New York.
[5:55]And there are so many other communities and they're so different from New York like this
[6:01]was, I lived, I grew up in these mountains in Massachusetts, completely isolated.
[6:09]So when you compare me with Puerto Ricans in New York were totally different in some
[6:16]ways, obviously it's the city and the country.
[6:19]And so what I wanted people to see is, you know, that we are a part of the history of this
[6:26]country and this is another history of this country.
[6:33]Puerto Ricans have been here working and living here.
[6:38]And we're not a part of traditional history here, a traditional literature.
[6:45]And so I think it's my turn, my generation.
[6:50]It's time for us to talk about who we are and, you know, tell those stories.
[6:57]And so I'm going to choose to gauge me that opportunity.
[7:01]So that's what mainly I want people to know that, you know, we're here and we've been here
[7:07]for a long time, you know, that's the basic reason why I wrote it.
[7:12]And what was your experience like publishing, working with Simon and Schuster, selling
[7:16]the book, all of that?
[7:20]I don't want to lead people to think and that it's easy.
[7:25]You know, many times when people ask that question and I say, oh, it was wonderful.
[7:30]It is a wonderful experience.
[7:34]But you have to work.
[7:37]You have to be open to criticism.
[7:41]You have to want to improve your writing and your book and your story and the plot and whatever
[7:48]it is that they feel needs to be worked on.
[7:52]So yes, it's an amazing experience.
[7:55]And what about the actual writing?
[7:57]I mean, to go through all of that academic rigor, you know, after a full career, that
[8:04]is impressive.
[8:05]Why did you go back and then when how did this book intersect with all that?
[8:11]Like when did you find time to do everything?
[8:14]That's a very interesting question because it all happened because I was living in Puerto
[8:20]Rico and I was a professor there and I had been there most of my life.
[8:25]I grew up in Warnoke, but at the age of 12, I returned to Puerto Rico and I was there
[8:31]most of my life.
[8:33]And we were there and my husband got this job in the United States, he just, I couldn't,
[8:40]you know, tell him to say no to that.
[8:43]And so we came to the United States and I thought, why don't I write the history of Warnoke
[8:50]since I just finished a PhD in history and I don't know why.
[8:57]But every time I thought of doing the research, I thought, but I don't want to write about
[9:03]the real people because doing recent history is, you know, has its hands.
[9:12]And I thought, ooh, what is my often I think if I say this or, you know, all these people
[9:17]are alive and I just don't know how it happened.
[9:21]I think there's just something magical about doing art where you just need to do it.
[9:28]You have to do it.
[9:30]You've this impulse to do it.
[9:33]And so I started writing and creating these characters that never existed.
[9:41]And that was such a liberating feeling for me after what you've said, after going
[9:47]through all this academic work.
[9:49]All of a sudden, the archive was in my head.
[9:54]You know, I didn't have to go sit anywhere and jot down data.
[10:00]So it was just a liberating experience
[10:03]to be able to create without anyone telling me
[10:07]how to do it.
[10:09]I could just write whatever I wanted.
[10:12]And so I found a way of writing, creating characters
[10:19]that could have lived in War and Oco,
[10:22]but they didn't.
[10:23]They're all made up.
[10:25]So oddly liberating to just make up whatever you want.
[10:31]And it's OK.
[10:33]Yeah.
[10:34]That was just OK.
[10:36]Oh, my gosh.
[10:37]Well, one of the characters, the aunt in the book
[10:39]who was in Puerto Rico and becomes a caretaker
[10:42]for the kids and everything, she is Cecilia.
[10:45]She is non-binary.
[10:47]Or how would you describe how you decided to characterize her?
[10:51]She was called to tomboy back when the mom and her went,
[10:55]we're in school together.
[10:56]And now as a grown person has developed,
[11:00]they thought she was a man when she picked them up
[11:02]from the airport.
[11:03]And she was, you have a beautiful scene
[11:05]where she talks about being accepted for who she is
[11:08]and how important that is.
[11:09]And they can't go on.
[11:11]They can't even drive out of the airport
[11:12]without really, without her knowing that her sister's still
[11:16]accepts her for who she is.
[11:17]Tell me a little bit about that plot line.
[11:20]Well, when I was doing my doctorate,
[11:22]professors always talked about bringing people out
[11:26]of the margins.
[11:28]History is about kings and queens and politicians.
[11:32]And for decades now, we've been fascinated
[11:35]by ordinary, common people.
[11:39]We want to know who they were.
[11:42]And there's so little written about women and children
[11:45]and elderly.
[11:47]And when I wrote this originally,
[11:50]the person who took care of them in Puerto Rico
[11:54]of the children was their grandmother.
[11:58]And I was sitting there one day remembering one
[12:03]of my professors.
[12:05]And I thought, you know, I'm not doing what he said.
[12:08]Here I'm bringing in a grandmother.
[12:10]It's so many grandmothers in Latino literature.
[12:14]And I totally created Cecilia.
[12:18]I said, you know, I need not a stereotype,
[12:21]another stereotype.
[12:22]Like all Latinos have these abuelitas everywhere,
[12:27]cooking in the kitchen.
[12:28]I did not have that.
[12:30]And all Latino women are like, you know,
[12:33]the makeup and the black girl here
[12:36]and the sex appeal thing going on.
[12:39]And I said, no, there are other people around.
[12:43]Who are they?
[12:44]And I just came up with this person
[12:48]who is munchy.
[12:50]You know, she's more masculine.
[12:54]And this is the 50s.
[12:56]So, you know, people couldn't come out.
[13:00]But munchy is like, you know, this is who I am.
[13:03]I don't like girls, girl clothes, you know?
[13:07]This is who I am.
[13:08]And so it was just this idea of bringing in
[13:13]a character that is real, that is exists in our society
[13:18]and is also in the margins of literature.
[13:21]You just don't see them as often until recently elephant.
[13:27]So when you think about your book coming out,
[13:30]what are you worried about if anything?
[13:32]I'm not worried about anything.
[13:34]That's amazing.
[13:35]Oh my gosh.
[13:36]No, because I feel that I have done an incredible job
[13:41]in terms of my personal satisfaction, that's great.
[13:45]You know, I'm not saying it's good or bad.
[13:46]It's just, I know that I have given 100%
[13:51]and that this is a story that needs to be told.
[13:55]And if anybody doesn't like it, that's fine.
[13:57]Not everybody likes everything.
[13:59]I don't like everything.
[14:01]So, you know, to be here with you
[14:04]and to have all the people on good reads
[14:08]and all kinds of places saying things about it
[14:12]and holding it up with pictures on the internet,
[14:15]that is amazing.
[14:16]So I've already made it if you want to put it.
[14:21]You know, it doesn't matter what anybody has to say about it now.
[14:25]I love that.
[14:25]That is so the right attitude.
[14:28]Like that is what everybody needs to hear
[14:31]and remember.
[14:32]I hope they like it.
[14:33]Yeah, obviously.
[14:34]No, I know, I know, but you're attitude towards it
[14:37]because ultimately it's out of your control
[14:39]once it's in the world.
[14:40]Like all you can do is make sure that you did
[14:42]what you wanted to do and what you set out to do
[14:44]and have a total piece with that.
[14:47]I think it's wonderful.
[14:49]Thank you.
[14:50]What else can you do?
[14:52]You hope people will like it.
[14:54]And I hope that they learned from it, you know?
[14:56]Basically, you know what it's like to be a child
[14:59]growing up between two cultures,
[15:02]having to navigate two cultures,
[15:06]different places coming and going.
[15:09]And then there's one really important thing here.
[15:13]And it's that to me.
[15:15]And it's that you have your family here.
[15:18]And they are very Hispanic, traditional.
[15:22]And then you're going to school and coming home every day.
[15:26]So you are changing.
[15:28]And your family is having problems with that.
[15:31]They don't want you to be like Americans, you know?
[15:34]So I'm trying to show the difficulties
[15:38]that children who are brought up between two cultures
[15:41]with parents who just came here.
[15:44]Puerto Rico is part of the United States.
[15:47]So it's not really an immigrant story,
[15:50]but culturally it is.
[15:53]Andrea and Pablo have such a close relationship.
[15:56]And I feel like that was really well done.
[15:58]Do you have a sibling that you're very close to
[16:00]or what do you think that on you do?
[16:02]I do.
[16:03]Very close in age.
[16:05]Is that brother sister?
[16:07]He's a brother, yes.
[16:09]Amazing.
[16:10]And has he read the book?
[16:11]He hasn't know.
[16:12]He's mentally ill.
[16:15]And so he is the reason why Pablo has the experiences he has.
[16:22]I wanted to bring that, which is a very personal thing.
[16:26]But I think, you know, we need to talk about mental illness.
[16:31]And so I thought, why not?
[16:33]And I spoke to him about it.
[16:36]And he said, oh, I can't wait.
[16:39]And he said, you know, I hope the guy has a really good ending
[16:44]with wife and kids.
[16:46]So he was all excited almost that he could see himself
[16:50]in another life.
[16:51]Oh, it was a beautiful experience talking to him about it.
[16:57]Wow, that's great.
[16:59]So Pablo is the character that is closest to a real character.
[17:05]OK.
[17:06]Pretty much everyone else is completely made up.
[17:10]Do you feel that Puerto Rican society is less accepting
[17:14]of mental illness than other places?
[17:16]Or what is the reception of it there?
[17:19]Has it changed over time?
[17:20]No, we're not less accepting of it.
[17:22]I think if anything, we accept it more than in the United States.
[17:28]You know, I don't know what the exact way of putting this is.
[17:32]But in the United States, there seems
[17:35]to be like a more of a separation of generations
[17:40]with ages and illnesses.
[17:45]I just don't know how to put it.
[17:46]But we just kind of are more accepting of each other
[17:51]the way we are.
[17:53]Less of a stereotype about what life should be like.
[17:58]Family is a big deal.
[18:00]So maybe that is the route to go with this.
[18:03]You know, it's just family, old, young, mentally ill.
[18:08]You know, with whatever illnesses that we're family, period.
[18:12]And it's not so much, it's not as intense here.
[18:17]I'm not saying that Americans don't value family.
[18:19]No, I don't.
[18:20]But just that it's more noticeable in Hispanic culture
[18:25]how we find together interesting.
[18:28]And did you take inspiration from other Puerto Rican authors
[18:32]or authors in general or were there, you know, legends?
[18:37]No.
[18:38]No, because I was a theater professor.
[18:42]And then I was doing a doctorate in history.
[18:46]I didn't read much literature.
[18:50]I don't know how I wrote this.
[18:52]I was not reading novels.
[18:58]So I just, I guess I naturally, you know, was gifted
[19:03]or something because I didn't read novels.
[19:06]And so after I started writing it, I did.
[19:10]And that's the one thing I have to say to writers.
[19:13]Read in your genre.
[19:15]And so now I read all these novels
[19:18]because I'm not in the academia anymore.
[19:21]And so I can just read anything I want.
[19:25]And I'm like fascinated.
[19:29]Why did you go back for a PhD in history to begin with?
[19:32]I wanted to stay in Puerto Rico when I decided to do a PhD.
[19:38]And there is no PhD in theater in Puerto Rico.
[19:43]And I didn't want to leave because I have two kids.
[19:47]And so I didn't want to uproot them
[19:49]to come to the United States to do a doctorate.
[19:52]And so I worked out with the history department
[19:58]who does have a doctorate.
[20:00]to write, and that I could do all of my research in theater.
[20:04]Got it.
[20:05]OK, so it makes sense now.
[20:07]Got it.
[20:07]It's in history of Puerto Rico.
[20:10]But my thesis is from the viewpoint of playwrights.
[20:15]What do playwrights say about Puerto Rican nationality,
[20:19]identity, things like that?
[20:22]But it's still theater.
[20:23]Interesting.
[20:24]Love it.
[20:25]Well, all that congratulations on this novel
[20:28]that somehow just flew out of you into the world.
[20:32]You're like a vehicle, like a medium,
[20:34]and other voices are coming out.
[20:36]It's pretty awesome.
[20:37]So congratulations.
[20:39]And we're really wishing you all the best
[20:42]as the book launches and all of that.
[20:45]And just enjoy the ride.
[20:47]Thank you so much.
[20:48]You're welcome.
[20:49]Thank you for having me.
[20:50]Thanks for coming on.
[20:52]Thanks for listening to this episode of Mom's Don't
[20:54]Have Time to Read Books.
[20:56]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens
[20:59]and at Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[21:01]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com
[21:03]and sign up for my virtual book club
[21:05]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[21:08]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[21:09]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[21:11]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[21:13]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.