Whitney Hanson, HARMONY
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Whitney Hansen is the author of Harmony.
[1:05]She is also the author of Home and Climate.
[1:08]Through Whitney's vulnerability and authenticity, she is connected with thousands of readers
[1:12]and adamantly believes that poetry is not a dead language.
[1:15]Rather, it is the key to unlocking true vulnerability, which leads to deeper connection
[1:20]with one another.
[1:21]Whitney grew up in rural Montana and now lives in South Carolina.
[1:24]Whitney, welcome to Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[1:28]Thank you.
[1:29]I'm so excited to be here.
[1:30]I am glad to have you here with your very adorable new haircut, which we were just discussing,
[1:34]which I know about because I have been listening to you reading your poems on Instagram.
[1:40]I do not have TikTok.
[1:41]I know you are a TikTok phenomenon as I read in your materials.
[1:45]I think I'm too old for TikTok, but that's probably up for debate.
[1:52]I think now, once you're old for TikTok, you'll find something for everyone on TikTok.
[1:56]But I definitely am focused a little bit on Instagram more lately, so you're seeing most
[2:01]of my content anyway.
[2:03]Exactly.
[2:04]I don't need to be doing any dance moves or anything like that.
[2:06]I'm getting all the good stuff in my, I think it's relatable actually.
[2:10]I feel like a lot of listeners of this podcast are probably on Instagram versus TikTok,
[2:14]but I could be wrong.
[2:15]Maybe it's the biggest day after.
[2:18]I almost think that TikTok is almost more focused on instant gratification and Instagram
[2:25]has become more of a place of artistic expression.
[2:29]So I almost find myself fitting in more on Instagram now because of that.
[2:33]So yeah, I would think that a lot of people listening are probably people who spend more
[2:38]time on Instagram.
[2:39]Yeah.
[2:40]Like moms.
[2:41]But also I see a lot of like the only TikToks I do see are when people repose them on Instagram.
[2:46]And I'm like, oh, I saw this TikTok on Instagram.
[2:49]I'm really hating myself now in this conversation when he would just start it.
[2:55]It's okay, but we are here today to talk about harmony or absolutely beautiful collection
[3:02]of poems.
[3:03]I found it achy in the really best possible way to read.
[3:07]I want you to take that as a compliment because it was heart wrenching and beautiful.
[3:11]I think anybody who has lost anyone, but particularly who has lost someone before their
[3:17]time will find so many places in your words that think, oh my God, this is speaking from
[3:23]my own heart directly.
[3:25]And you know, it was a real, it was a journey, it was a journey through your experience
[3:28]and a journey for the reader.
[3:30]It was a really beautiful, beautiful work.
[3:32]So congratulations on that.
[3:34]Thank you.
[3:35]And so why don't you tell everybody who hasn't yet read it?
[3:40]What is harmony about harmony is a book that I always knew.
[3:46]I think that I would write.
[3:47]It was always in the back of my mind as something that is an important piece of my story
[3:52]because all of my feelings in poetry, a lot of times kind of stemmed back from my childhood.
[4:00]And so harmony is about experiencing grief in my childhood.
[4:06]I was around 16 years old, but I still kind of considered that like a turning point.
[4:11]And so harmony is all about that turning point of realizing how temporary life is because
[4:18]when I was 16 years old, I lost my best friend and when you're 16, arguably your best
[4:24]friend is like your most important person in your life.
[4:28]And so I lost my best friend when I was 16 and so I feel like that changed my perspective
[4:37]on life and on love a lot.
[4:40]And so I have always kind of wanted to write this book to document that process of grief
[4:47]and how that was incorporated with me becoming an adult and me maturing and growing up.
[4:54]And so that's what harmony is.
[4:56]It's a documentation of about process through a poetic lens.
[4:59]Were you writing, so first of all, have you always written poetry as up in something you've
[5:04]been doing since you were even younger than you were now?
[5:07]I started with writing music, which actually kind of ties into the title of harmony
[5:14]because I wanted to incorporate music because it's another big part of artistic expression
[5:18]for me.
[5:20]But I started with writing music, which I think ties really closely to poetry and then
[5:24]when I was around 15 or 16 years old, that's when I really started writing poetry.
[5:30]I had a teacher who really encouraged me to write.
[5:36]She would try to get me to enter in all these poetry competitions and things like that.
[5:41]And that was really huge for me in my journey with writing.
[5:44]So are the poems, you know, because I think the structure of the collection really takes
[5:50]you through the kind of before through the really raw stages of early grief and then kind
[5:55]of, you know, through your entire process?
[5:58]Are the poems from the earlier part of the collection things that you are writing at the
[6:02]time or is that you kind of reflecting back on how you were feeling thinking about it now?
[6:07]There are a few poems sprinkled in there that were from years ago, but for the most part,
[6:16]the poems in the book were written like five years later.
[6:21]And one thing that I really tried to do, though, was to kind of put myself back in that
[6:27]place.
[6:28]And a few ways that I did that was by listening to music while I was writing and listening
[6:33]to music that brought me back to that place, because I think that music has a way of like
[6:38]teleporting us to a different time.
[6:41]And so music was a big part of my writing process.
[6:45]And then also it was challenging to really put myself back in that mindset and almost
[6:50]like relive those feelings and those emotions and those experiences.
[6:55]And so that was something that was really hard about writing this book, but it was also
[7:00]something that was really important to me that I depict it in a way that someone who is
[7:05]currently grieving someone or someone who is just lost someone can resonate with the book.
[7:11]Do you write, do you, do you, music and poetry, do you write other things besides that?
[7:17]Like do you need like a palette cleanser sort of?
[7:19]I sometimes think writing about something really intense and personal.
[7:22]You almost need like a little writing break to go do something else.
[7:25]Like are you like secretly writing a vampire love story or space opera or something
[7:30]in the background as well?
[7:32]My current dream is a children's book because for that very reason that I felt like the
[7:40]last several things that I've written have been really heavy and I'm like I need to step
[7:46]away.
[7:47]So I'm I really would like to write a children's book.
[7:49]I'm just like stirring some concepts around.
[7:51]I haven't actually gotten started on it, but that's that's something that I've been
[7:56]thinking about a lot and I've also found myself like having to read really light material
[8:01]because because I kind of need to bring myself out of that state.
[8:06]It's hard to be in there all the time I think it's it's can be a lot.
[8:10]So I really I love to do that.
[8:12]Anything light that you've read recently that you've loved.
[8:15]Like what's your good counterpart book to this one?
[8:18]So when I was a teenager, I was really into the Percy Jackson series and then recently
[8:24]he came out with like a new Percy Jackson book that was just like the sequel.
[8:29]And so I recently just read that one because it just kind of made me feel like a kid
[8:35]again.
[8:36]And my daughter's obsessed with those books and the TV shows now on Disney Plus if you
[8:40]want.
[8:41]Yeah, I've I've been watching that too.
[8:44]So so that's been really good for me.
[8:46]And then I've also just kind of been reading like fantasy and things that are just like
[8:51]whimsical and light and not too heavy.
[8:54]So I love it.
[8:55]So I told you I was going through your Instagram in your profile you have you say poetry
[9:00]isn't a dead language.
[9:02]And I'm wondering where that do you think that younger people do you think people your age?
[9:08]Do they think a poetry is a dead language?
[9:09]Do you think there's like a renaissance of poetry?
[9:11]Can where does that come from that feeling that you need to state that actually poetry is
[9:16]not a dead language?
[9:17]I think when most people think of poetry, they think of something that's like super intellectual
[9:25]or hard to comprehend or old.
[9:28]I think of like when you think of a poetry book, I don't know.
[9:30]I think often you think that like an old poetry book that you were forced to read in
[9:35]English class and dissect and figure out what it meant.
[9:39]And so I think that for me, I want to bring poetry to a young audience and remind people
[9:46]that poetry just like any other form of art can be as simple or complex as you want
[9:53]it to be.
[9:55]And so that's that's my goal with with that statement is just.
[10:00]is to remind people that poetry is important.
[10:04]And I mean, clearly it's working
[10:05]because you have an extraordinary number of followers
[10:09]on multiple platforms.
[10:11]And I'm guessing that a lot of people first access
[10:13]you're writing through social media
[10:16]and through you reading your poems online.
[10:18]I mean, that, I had not really thought about
[10:21]how that must be helping a totally new generation
[10:23]access poetry in a different way than I did,
[10:26]which is exactly how you describe,
[10:27]like giving an Emily Dickinson poem in school,
[10:29]we have to like dissect every line.
[10:31]I mean, do you think of yourself as a performance artist
[10:34]as well as a poet?
[10:35]Yeah, I definitely would say,
[10:37]so I haven't actually thought about it that way,
[10:40]but I think that there is a whole another aspect
[10:44]of the expression in the performance of the poetry
[10:48]and also a whole another aspect of healing
[10:52]in being able to speak the poetry myself.
[10:55]So I started reading my poetry for TikTok and Instagram
[11:02]by reading it in my car just to my cell phone.
[11:05]And that was like kind of my therapy session almost
[11:10]for the days I would go and drive to an empty parking lot
[11:13]and I would sit there and I would read poetry out loud.
[11:16]And I think that that is such a powerful thing
[11:19]to be able to speak those things out loud,
[11:21]not just write them down.
[11:23]And so it's been something that's super important
[11:25]for me adding that aspect of performance to my writing.
[11:31]I think it really does bring it in a different way.
[11:33]So normally, if I'm doing one of these podcasts,
[11:36]I will read a little bit that I loved.
[11:38]I'm like kind of nervous about doing that
[11:40]because you read your own work so beautifully.
[11:42]Can I just want to have like a little snippet?
[11:44]Is that okay, I'm doing a,
[11:46]maybe I should read that, that's okay.
[11:47]Repeat it back to me,
[11:48]but there's, I pulled out so many different,
[11:50]I just wanted to read this one,
[11:52]which was so beautiful, which is.
[11:54]I love hearing other people read my poetry.
[11:56]So I'm excited for you to read it,
[11:59]but I love it because in a way,
[12:02]it's them making it their own
[12:03]and their interpretation of it.
[12:05]And so I'm excited for you to read it.
[12:07]And I'm happy that you're reading it.
[12:09]I'm glad that you said that before I read it.
[12:10]Actually, that's good because that if I,
[12:12]no, I mean, you know, it's hard to mess up
[12:14]beautiful words like these, but this is the part I'd pulled
[12:17]out out of many, many ones that I was going to read.
[12:19]So you say grief will teach you one of two lessons,
[12:24]how to run from love or how to run toward it.
[12:27]You choose which lesson you learn,
[12:29]which I just thought was extremely powerful.
[12:33]And I think, you know, as a mom,
[12:36]and I know a lot of the listeners of this podcast are mom,
[12:39]you know, when you go through a grief event in your family,
[12:43]there's your own grief,
[12:44]but then you're thinking about how to support your children,
[12:46]you know, in a different way.
[12:47]I mean, I know this is a tough question for anybody,
[12:51]but particularly someone young,
[12:53]but I mean, are there ways in which you were
[12:55]or wish you would have been supported
[12:56]as a young person going through this at 16 years old
[12:59]that you think moms and dads and other parents
[13:03]out there should hear?
[13:04]Well, that is partially my goal with this book
[13:09]is to be able to give parents or someone
[13:13]who knows someone who's grieving a tool
[13:15]to be able to help someone.
[13:16]So either by reading this book
[13:19]and maybe finding some understanding
[13:21]so that you can connect with that person
[13:23]or by gifting this book to someone
[13:26]who is going through it,
[13:27]I think just the gift of understanding is super important
[13:32]because for me, there was just nobody in my family
[13:38]who had been through the kind of loss
[13:40]that I was experiencing.
[13:42]And so I think they didn't necessarily know
[13:45]how to help.
[13:47]So I think that one important thing
[13:49]that family members or people who are close to someone
[13:52]who is grieving can do is to learn about it
[13:56]and to ask questions about it
[13:58]because I think that most of the time
[14:02]when someone is grieving, they want to talk about it.
[14:05]They want to talk about that person that they lost
[14:08]and giving them that space to do that
[14:11]is something that's extremely important.
[14:13]And just the effort to try to understand is important.
[14:18]I think that's so true.
[14:20]I think the natural response is almost
[14:24]to want to avoid it or to think probably,
[14:27]this person who's grieving has been thinking about it
[14:29]non-stop and they want to think something different.
[14:31]So I'm not going to bring it up
[14:33]but that has certainly been my experience as well.
[14:35]I think people do really want to talk about the loved one
[14:38]that they lost,
[14:39]but that's a really important part of the process
[14:41]and not just the grieving process
[14:43]but the ongoing process of living your life
[14:46]without the person that you had there.
[14:47]So I think that's an amazing thing to say.
[14:50]Now, you've been doing a book tour.
[14:52]You're just back fairly recently from your book tours, right?
[14:55]Yeah, beginning of December was my last event.
[14:58]And I watched like an introduction you did about yourself
[15:01]and you sort of said something like,
[15:03]you didn't actually say you hate people
[15:05]but I get the impression that you're like,
[15:08]you know, in these favorings
[15:09]is not exactly where you always want to be.
[15:11]How was book tour for you?
[15:13]How was actually getting in front of all these people
[15:15]and sharing your words
[15:17]and hearing what they had to say about them?
[15:19]It was incredible and also an emotional roller coaster.
[15:25]I told this story a lot on my tour
[15:27]but when I had planned to go on tour,
[15:31]I planned it before I had even written Harmony
[15:34]and it was before I even knew
[15:36]what the book was going to be about.
[15:38]And so I had had this dream of going on tour
[15:42]because I really do love to actually connect with people
[15:45]and I think that social media allows some form of connection
[15:50]but it's very different when you can actually
[15:52]meet people face to face and see their facial expressions
[15:57]and see how your art is resonating with them.
[16:01]So I'd been wanting to do a tour for a while
[16:04]because I do, I was very nervous
[16:07]but I do actually like people.
[16:10]I was kind of thinking that you were like,
[16:11]I love people and also I hate people.
[16:13]And I was like, I think we all kind of feel that with a little bit.
[16:16]Yeah, I tend to be more introverted
[16:19]but I do love people.
[16:24]So I planted this tour before I really knew
[16:27]what the book was going to be about
[16:28]and I kind of already committed to the next book
[16:31]that I write, I'm going to tour for that book.
[16:33]And so I wrote Harmony
[16:37]and then I like set the plan in motion to go on tour.
[16:42]And then I had this moment right before I went on tour
[16:45]where I was like, what have I done?
[16:47]Like, what am I doing?
[16:48]Because it was such a heavy book
[16:53]and then I signed myself up to go talk about
[16:57]basically my most traumatizing childhood experience
[17:01]in front of a live audience.
[17:03]And I really had a moment of like,
[17:06]what did I sign myself up for?
[17:08]But it turned out being incredibly validating
[17:12]because I had so many people come out to me
[17:14]that were like, this is exactly what I needed to hear
[17:20]and I resonate with this part of your story so much
[17:22]and I resonate with this part of your story so much.
[17:25]And so it was huge for me.
[17:26]And I truthfully cried after almost every event
[17:30]because of just how emotional it was
[17:33]to meet people and hear people's stories.
[17:36]And so it was very moving and very rewarding,
[17:40]but it was also emotionally exhausting a little bit.
[17:45]Wow, that sounds extraordinary.
[17:47]Now tell me what's up next for you.
[17:50]I know you have this retreat in Bali,
[17:53]which I'm trying to figure out
[17:55]if I can't make my way over there.
[17:56]But tell me what's ahead for you in 2024.
[17:59]I would love it if you join us in Bali, first of all.
[18:01]But I am doing a lot of, at least two retreats.
[18:06]And one thing that I've been really focused on
[18:09]is community and connecting with people
[18:12]and collaborating with artists.
[18:14]And so I have been working with a musician
[18:18]on possibly releasing some poetry collaboration with music.
[18:23]I am working on doing my retreats,
[18:26]which is another way to connect with people
[18:29]and hopefully inspire people to get into writing.
[18:32]And so really, right now, I'm really focused on community
[18:36]and connecting with people and figuring out
[18:39]how I can collaborate with people in my art.
[18:42]I love it.
[18:43]I am planning a retreat in Scotland for next year as well.
[18:47]So we could do a retreat swap.
[18:49]You can come to Scotland.
[18:50]I'll come to Bali with you.
[18:51]This sounds like a wonderful plan for me.
[18:54]I think I might get the better end of it.
[18:56]That sounds amazing.
[18:58]That sounds awesome.
[18:59]Well, Whitney has been so nice to chat with you.
[19:02]We always like to finish up here with some advice you have
[19:05]for writers.
[19:07]What would you say to the aspiring writers out there
[19:09]that are listening?
[19:10]I think the number one thing that I've learned in the past year
[19:13]is the importance of community.
[19:17]And especially as a creative or someone
[19:20]who creates from their bedroom and doesn't get out
[19:24]in the world much, especially in this social media age,
[19:28]the importance of community and finding
[19:31]people who support you in your writing
[19:34]and who you can even work with and expand your horizons.
[19:40]I think that that's something that's been hugely important
[19:43]for me in this past year.
[19:44]And I think that that is something that is hugely important
[19:47]for any kind of artist, any kind of creative.
[19:50]I think that it's so beautiful.
[19:51]It can feel a little bit lonely sometimes
[19:53]creating on your own in your room.
[19:55]So I think that's a beautiful message.
[19:58]Whitney, thank you so much for coming.
[20:00]Coming on, thank you for writing this beautiful poetry collection.
[20:02]Harmony is out.
[20:04]Everybody can pick up a copy, check out Whitney's
[20:06]wide social media presence on Instagram, TikTok,
[20:10]and I think you should check out her Bollywood treat
[20:12]because it looks amazing.
[20:14]So thank you for coming on today.
[20:16]Thank you so much for having me.
[20:17]It's been so fun talking to you.
[20:20]Thanks for listening to this episode
[20:21]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[20:23]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[20:25]at Zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[20:28]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zibi Owens.com
[20:31]and sign up for my virtual book club
[20:32]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[20:35]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan
[20:37]at Texturesound for the Sound Editing.
[20:39]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[20:41]for providing this fantastic intro and outram music.