Jonathan Conyers, I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE HERE: Finding My Voice, Finding My People, Finding My Way
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Jonathan Conyers is the author of, I wasn't supposed to be here, finding my voice, finding
[1:07]my people, finding my way.
[1:09]Jonathan is the co-founder of the Brooklyn Debate League, a nonprofit whose mission is to
[1:13]bring speech and debate to at-risk communities.
[1:16]He has been featured in The New York Times, Washington Post, The Kelly Clarkson Show,
[1:20]and more.
[1:21]A graduate of Stony Brook University, he is the founder of Conyers Media, and the host of
[1:25]the professional winner podcast.
[1:27]In addition, he is a respiratory therapist at NYU Langone Medical Center specializing in
[1:32]neonates and pediatrics.
[1:34]He lives in New York City with his wife and three young children.
[1:37]Welcome, Jonathan.
[1:38]Thank you so much for coming on mom's turn of time to read books and discuss.
[1:41]I wasn't supposed to be here, finding my voice, finding my people, finding my way.
[1:47]Congrats.
[1:48]Thank you so much, Eddy.
[1:49]I was honored to be here in your presence.
[1:51]Thank you for supporting my book.
[1:53]Thank you for all you do for the book world.
[1:54]And I'm excited to talk about this project that needs so much to me.
[1:58]Ah, so sweet of you.
[2:00]I loved your book.
[2:01]I know we've already been on Instagram and I've been putting it up in my store and all that
[2:06]stuff.
[2:07]But the way you tell your story and all the things you've gone through, but just the way
[2:12]you present it and the human heart and spirit.
[2:17]And I don't know.
[2:18]I'm not saying this very well, but it was just so inspiring and you just can't help
[2:24]it root for you for the rest of your life and how you talk about the things you're proud
[2:30]of and the things you got into that you aren't so proud of and like the way you talk
[2:34]about your family.
[2:36]And it's just so well done, but also just so well lived.
[2:42]I don't even know how do you comment on someone's whole life.
[2:44]But anyway, I found it very, very moving.
[2:46]So great job as a book.
[2:49]As a life.
[2:50]I put a lot of energy into it.
[2:52]It's so weird, especially when you write in memoir, you have like this power, right?
[2:56]It's like, I get the right about myself.
[2:58]I get to tell parts of my story.
[2:59]And I don't know which part I want to focus on.
[3:01]I don't know which part I want to resonate.
[3:03]I don't know how honest I want to be.
[3:05]I don't know how much I want to reflect.
[3:06]I don't know what my family is going to think.
[3:08]But when I was writing this project, when I was diving into this journey, I knew there was
[3:13]only one way to do it.
[3:14]And I was to be brutally honest and tell my story and hope that it resonates for all different
[3:18]types of people.
[3:19]You know, my life hasn't been easy.
[3:21]And I wanted to share those moments, but I didn't want to share it to the point of like,
[3:25]for someone to feel bad or someone to feel like, oh my god, this, you know, life sucks
[3:29]and it's not always fair to everyone.
[3:31]I wanted it to be a redemption story.
[3:33]I wanted people to understand that, you know, like, you can overcome any obstacle with
[3:37]that.
[3:38]What you're born into or your zip code doesn't define you.
[3:40]And I've been so blessed that people have resonated with the story that people from all
[3:45]different walks of life see myself.
[3:47]I mean, see themselves in my story from talking about addiction to talking about sexual
[3:51]assault.
[3:52]I'm talking about teenage pregnancy and all of these tough things that I had to overcome
[3:55]in my life that are sensitive topics, but to know that it's helping so many people out
[3:59]there to know so many people are motivated and want to make change in their life and
[4:03]understand that they're still so much more like to live regardless of what they have been
[4:07]through or what they're going through gives me great joy.
[4:10]So I'm just super excited to continue to tell my story secret.
[4:14]I'm only 29.
[4:15]So oh my gosh, most people might age don't get the opportunity to share their narrative.
[4:20]So I'm still young.
[4:21]I'm still learning a lot about life.
[4:23]I still have so much more like to live and I can't wait to the second memoir.
[4:27]I see for the next 20 years, next 30 years, next 40 years, taking me in this journey.
[4:32]Well, don't wait too many years or I won't be right.
[4:36]Yeah, yeah.
[4:38]I plan on writing soon.
[4:40]Secret have another project coming out for 2025, a graphic novel.
[4:44]Oh, that's great.
[4:45]So there's a lot more things and it works.
[4:47]I won't be waiting too long because I have a lot of stories to tell, a lot of things.
[4:51]I want to accomplish.
[4:52]So we're going to stay at it and we're going to hope the world supports me and continue
[4:56]to push me along this beautiful journey of writing.
[4:59]That's wonderful.
[5:00]I even love from a book standpoint, the way that you structured it and the chapters.
[5:06]For example, you know, I'm just going to say this for people who haven't seen your
[5:09]book yet.
[5:10]I wasn't supposed to be here.
[5:11]Each chapter takes that title and spins off it.
[5:14]So I wasn't supposed to be born.
[5:16]I wasn't supposed to see my father cry.
[5:19]I wasn't supposed to be set free in the Bronx.
[5:21]I wasn't supposed to be making difficult decisions.
[5:23]I wasn't supposed to be in high school in Harlem.
[5:26]I wasn't supposed to be at an elite private boarding school.
[5:29]blah blah blah.
[5:30]So it's so neat.
[5:31]I mean, it seems like obvious why don't more people have chapter titles, it's so like
[5:37]you can't open it and think like, oh my gosh, well, why?
[5:40]What happened?
[5:41]How did this happen?
[5:43]So even that how did you decide to structure it that way and was this always the title
[5:47]where there's always the chapter headings?
[5:49]Just curious.
[5:50]Yeah.
[5:51]So the first thing I would say was that it's funny how so many people resonate with
[5:54]like the chapter structure and like when you're having these events when you're talking
[5:58]and you're doing a tour, it's always the things that you do that that you never thought
[6:02]about that everybody's like, that was genius.
[6:04]That was great.
[6:05]And you go, oh yeah, I played that, but I did and it was kind of just, it just fell in
[6:09]my lap.
[6:10]A lot of people that don't know, I am a medical provider.
[6:12]So I worked for NYU Medical Center here in Manhattan and in the beginning of my book,
[6:18]the first chapter is I wasn't supposed to be born and I literally mean that.
[6:22]My parents were addicted to a crack cocaine and I was there fifth, I would say they're
[6:27]fifth and I don't want to child because my mother did everything in her power to abort
[6:31]me, but due to she was deconstructed addiction, she was struggling a lot with her mental
[6:35]health and she already had four kids that she couldn't provide for and she was homeless.
[6:39]So her best bet when she found out she was pregnant with me was one, she was using a lot
[6:44]and she didn't know what my outcome would be so she tried to abort me.
[6:49]And one of the places she tried to abort me at his Bellevue hospital, which is right next
[6:53]to the hospital, I would work at every single, almost every single day.
[6:56]So one day I was walking past Bellevue and I kind of just stopped and I looked at the
[7:00]hospital and I was like, wow, a courageous doctor in there told my mother, no, that
[7:05]he wouldn't abort me because she had a hernia, her help with the clot and she was already
[7:08]four months pregnant and he stood by that decision and he was like, no, I think you should
[7:13]just have this child, it's just too risky to abort him and just see what happens.
[7:17]So one day just on my walk to the hospital, drinking my coffee, I'm just like, I'm just
[7:22]looking at Bellevue and I was like, wow, I really don't supposed to be here.
[7:26]And it just stopped and when the opportunity came, you know, I thought I was like, I
[7:29]want the title to be, I wasn't supposed to be here.
[7:32]And then when I started to write the book and we started to dive deep into my story and
[7:36]I had to go through some tough moments.
[7:38]It was a tough journey right in the book and reliving a lot of these moments.
[7:42]Every chapter, it was like, God has been so good.
[7:45]Every chapter was just like, there's just been so many amazing people throughout my life
[7:49]that I'd probably didn't realize then to help me get to where I am.
[7:54]And it was just the common theme throughout the book that it was a lot of places that I
[7:58]ended up throughout my life that I was just wasn't supposed to be there.
[8:02]Whether that was just me stumbling to a debate moment, whether that was just me listening
[8:06]to a teacher, whether that was a professor grabbing my daughter and holding her throughout
[8:11]class.
[8:12]It was just like all the situations that was just like very unique.
[8:15]And it was just very hard to keep processing that like, even with all the tough things
[8:21]I've been through, there was always this guardian angel, this shield around me, protected
[8:26]me and put in me in places that people that looked like me, people that I was going through
[8:30]where I was going through probably shouldn't have been.
[8:33]And it was those moments that I was like, hey, I just want to label every chapter about
[8:38]a place I wasn't supposed to have been and how that helped me.
[8:41]So that's kind of the story behind the title and on the chapter breakdown.
[8:45]Well, now I'm disappointed that everybody else likes that.
[8:48]I like that.
[8:49]I was being unique.
[8:50]I was like, that's so cool.
[8:52]I wonder if anyone else noticed, but they did.
[8:54]Oh, well, good for you, I guess.
[8:56]I mean, there are so many different stories and different people in the book that we
[9:02]could spend the hours dissecting from your relationship with Marques and how his life sort
[9:08]of goes one way and your life sort of goes one way and the times at which we see the
[9:13]place where you weren't supposed to be and how you could have so easily ended up somewhere
[9:18]else.
[9:19]So many of these moments and people like Mr. Marshall, that was his name who got helped
[9:24]you through school and suggested you go to a different types of high schools.
[9:28]And you had some funny exchange with your mom when you said they were suggesting you
[9:33]go to boarding school, you were like, mom, what's boarding school?
[9:36]And she said, like, I don't know what that is.
[9:38]She said it in a different way.
[9:39]But anyway, just like, I don't know what that is.
[9:41]And you're like, that was the end of my discussion about boarding school.
[9:45]Anyway, you have so many characters who you reference in the book and talk about as your
[9:50]chosen family and the angels who sort of got you through, I don't know if you say angels.
[9:54]I'm saying, you know, people who got you through from one moment to another and how
[9:57]they make up the journey and how you got there.
[10:00]or tell me a little more about it.
[10:01]It was like thinking about those people again,
[10:04]I know you said you didn't realize at the time,
[10:06]but what does it feel now?
[10:08]Like how does it feel looking back?
[10:10]And how does that just inspire you on a daily basis?
[10:14]I'm as bit of sweet.
[10:15]You know, so as I was writing a book,
[10:18]I thought I'd to realize the power of my village.
[10:20]It's what I call it.
[10:21]Yes, that's right.
[10:22]It's an hour of your village.
[10:23]And the secret to the book is really,
[10:27]every chapter is truly dedicated to some mind.
[10:29]So yes, to the memoir, yes, it talks about my personal journey,
[10:32]but the real reason for the book
[10:35]was just to say thank you to so many people,
[10:37]just to highlight so many amazing people
[10:39]that helped me throughout my journey.
[10:40]So each chapter is dedicated to someone,
[10:42]each chapter is saying thank you.
[10:44]This book is a testament to how to build a village.
[10:47]We are in a place right now in the world
[10:49]where there's so many teachers that are undervalued.
[10:52]There are so many teachers figuring out
[10:54]why they're doing this job.
[10:57]And unfortunately, our society has done a poor job
[10:59]given them the resources they need.
[11:01]They've done a poor job of paying them the right wages.
[11:04]And I think it was my responsibility
[11:06]as a kid who needed teachers,
[11:09]who my teachers had to be more than teachers.
[11:12]They had to want to save us.
[11:13]They had to want to protect us.
[11:14]They had to want to care for us due to the areas
[11:16]we've grown up and due to all the violence
[11:19]and all the things that came with the zip codes we were raising.
[11:22]So I with this newfound gift and power
[11:26]and opportunity wanted to say,
[11:27]I just wanted to thank them
[11:28]and show them that you got to understand
[11:31]that no matter what the world thinks
[11:32]or what we're going through with this teacher shortage
[11:34]that there are so many students,
[11:36]there are so many people who are doing amazing things
[11:37]for their community that needed you.
[11:40]And I hope that's worth something to them.
[11:42]And I also wanted to talk about friends like Marquis.
[11:45]So even people who are not the best for the community
[11:49]and how they shape me and how sometimes
[11:51]even the wrong role models taught me what not to do
[11:54]and believe them even when they couldn't believe in themselves.
[11:57]So it was a very interesting way to show these things.
[12:00]And the reason why I started off the statement
[12:02]with it is bittersweet is because there's a lot of people
[12:06]in that story who are no longer here,
[12:09]who will never get to see their name in a book
[12:11]who never got to understand that the choices they made
[12:14]for me were breathtaking and monument to like Mr. Marshall.
[12:18]One of the last things I ever said to Mr. Marshall
[12:20]was not something nice.
[12:22]I thought that he was ruining my life.
[12:24]I thought that him getting me over to the high school
[12:26]was the worst thing ever.
[12:27]But now I look back at my group of friends
[12:30]who I wanted to go to high school with.
[12:32]None of them are alive.
[12:34]Motion on my gone through to gun violence.
[12:37]Motion on pathway in their 20s.
[12:39]You think about a character like Marquis.
[12:41]He is currently in prison.
[12:43]And I love these people.
[12:44]I still talk to them.
[12:46]We had these conversations.
[12:47]They still laugh and say, look at you, Johnny on TV.
[12:49]You made it.
[12:50]You did it.
[12:51]You all knew he was going to make it out.
[12:52]But it's bittersweet because I want them here
[12:54]when we join these moments.
[12:55]I want to help their families.
[12:56]I want to show them that there was a different world.
[12:58]And now as adults, as men, we can change and change our narrative
[13:02]and do right and help to our communities and give back.
[13:05]And I have plans for it.
[13:06]It will be home one day.
[13:08]But it's bittersweet.
[13:09]So share these moments.
[13:10]And the people that help me get to these moments are night.
[13:13]And I'm not here.
[13:14]And then you have people like Beaco,
[13:16]where we have a wonderful nonprofit,
[13:17]the book from the Beacoons, that serve hundreds of kids.
[13:20]And we're doing a lot of amazing things
[13:22]throughout New York City.
[13:23]I'm a great at-risk youth.
[13:24]And I get to look back and say, hey, thank God
[13:26]I welcome to that debate room.
[13:28]Thank God I opened my heart and allowed
[13:30]him to be a mentor to me.
[13:31]I think back to Pam, I college counselor.
[13:33]That's like a mom to me.
[13:36]I did commencement speech at Stony Brook University.
[13:38]I got to do career day with them.
[13:40]I get to talk to a lot of the EOP students
[13:42]throughout New York City.
[13:43]So I still have some relationships
[13:45]with these individuals who are amazing, who are
[13:47]became a family.
[13:49]And people that now have professional and business
[13:51]like shit with, and then there's some that is like no longer
[13:53]here, or are still going through this tough journey
[13:57]we call life.
[13:58]So it's beautiful and it's painful all at the same time.
[14:03]Well, you did a beautiful job writing about your family
[14:07]an expository way without judgment, explaining motivations.
[14:13]You talk about scenes where there are bullets flying
[14:16]into your home.
[14:17]And your mom on the couch when your dad was still
[14:22]in Virginia, going to his weekend prison
[14:27]and just her passed out on the couch and doing crack
[14:32]and taking your money from the lawn mowing job.
[14:35]And just all these moments that are heartbreak
[14:38]after heartbreak after heartbreak.
[14:40]And even the violence between the two of them.
[14:44]But you don't do it in a condemning way.
[14:47]You don't write about it to say like, can you believe my parents
[14:51]or you don't write about it in an angry way.
[14:53]You put it out there.
[14:55]You explain why you point out the good,
[14:58]they weren't doing it on the street.
[15:00]Or like, this was there, a rationale.
[15:01]We were a good family.
[15:02]And it was just beautiful the way that you handled that.
[15:06]So tell me a little about your decision,
[15:08]or maybe it was a decision.
[15:09]It just came out just to how you portrayed your family
[15:12]in the book.
[15:14]Great questions, Ruby.
[15:15]And I think it was a decision.
[15:17]It was calculated.
[15:17]I think so many times we look at addiction
[15:22]and we're judgment too.
[15:23]We put these people in the box.
[15:25]We show the works parts of these individuals.
[15:28]And yes, I had to sit down with my parents
[15:32]when this opportunity presented itself
[15:33]when publishers and companies were interested in me
[15:36]doing a book.
[15:37]And I told my parents, there's no amount of money.
[15:40]There's no amount of attention.
[15:41]There's no amount of publicity that I'm willing to take.
[15:43]If you guys feel like this is too much for you.
[15:46]It's my story.
[15:47]And I'm only going to tell it one way.
[15:49]And my parents themselves said,
[15:52]if this is what you need,
[15:53]if you think this is the opportunity that can help kids
[15:55]and do the great work you're doing, then tell it.
[15:57]And I think they even assumed,
[15:58]like my mom has read the book and said, wow, okay.
[16:01]I thought this would be yours.
[16:03]And I was like, mom, you never miss the current teacher conference.
[16:06]You have five kids, four five of us have college degrees.
[16:08]Or five of us are homeowners.
[16:10]Lightning don't strike once.
[16:11]I know the media may present
[16:13]black women and black men who are addicted to crack
[16:16]as criminals as dirty as people who don't care about themselves
[16:20]or people who don't love their family,
[16:21]but that's not always an area.
[16:23]My mother used to walk in a highway
[16:24]to an institute of conference.
[16:25]My mother, when they try, I couldn't read to second grade.
[16:28]When they try to put me in a special education,
[16:29]my mother got clean for a month and read with me
[16:31]every single day.
[16:32]And pushing a woman who was homeless,
[16:34]a woman who could have easily told the government,
[16:37]put this kid in special ed and give me a check
[16:38]because we needed it so dushly bad
[16:40]because I can't leave them.
[16:41]She believed in a power of education.
[16:43]She was a junior nursing school in college
[16:46]when she got addicted.
[16:47]My dad was a boxing champ and was a DJ
[16:52]and had a great career at the NCA before he got addicted.
[16:55]So these were not individuals who were bad people
[16:58]by any means.
[16:58]These were not individuals who intentionally
[17:00]wanted to hurt their family.
[17:02]They were a product of the 80s,
[17:03]which is a whole other historical discussion
[17:06]where they didn't know what they were taking at the time.
[17:09]They didn't know the impact that crack
[17:10]we were having on the household
[17:12]and they fell subject to that.
[17:14]And I wanted to tell the uniqueness of them.
[17:16]I wanted to show the world that,
[17:18]there are tons of people who are lawyers,
[17:21]who are surgeons, who are alcoholics,
[17:23]who have addiction problems.
[17:25]We have so many people,
[17:26]not a color of suffering from addiction,
[17:28]who are still amazing people who have amazing careers,
[17:30]who have accomplished amazing things here on earth.
[17:34]And I just wanted to show the narrative
[17:36]that unfortunately, too many times
[17:39]when they come to people of color and addiction,
[17:42]they're frowned upon.
[17:43]And yes, it is a slippery slope
[17:45]because my parents did do things that were not great,
[17:49]things that was horrendous and things that addicts do.
[17:52]But there was also beauty and it took a lot of healing
[17:55]for me to get there.
[17:56]If you prior about wrote the book as a 16-year-old,
[17:59]it would have been a whole different book, right?
[18:01]If I would have wrote the book probably as a 24-year-old
[18:03]it would have been a whole different book.
[18:05]But I had to learn through therapy,
[18:08]through me diving into my own health journey
[18:10]and figuring out what type of parent I want to be
[18:13]and how my kids would see me is that we're not perfect
[18:15]and that there's, there's some times, not every time.
[18:18]Some things are just 100% horrendous,
[18:20]but a lot of times there's beauty and pain.
[18:22]And that I still, I'm still 50% of each one of them.
[18:25]So, you know, my mother says it all the time,
[18:28]like, what if I never became an addict?
[18:30]Maybe I would have been a CEO,
[18:31]but now I am watching my kids try to become that.
[18:35]So, you know, and it's not to say
[18:37]that she's 100% ill.
[18:38]It's not to say that we still don't have our fights
[18:40]and we still are not battling these situations.
[18:43]But I wanted to let her know that I appreciated her warmth
[18:47]when she did show it.
[18:48]I appreciate her showing me the importance of education
[18:51]and how it could be a ticket out of the situation
[18:53]that we were born into.
[18:55]And I also wanted to show her that,
[18:58]hey, these things still affected me
[19:00]and it still made my life just harder.
[19:02]So, it was complicated, it was hard.
[19:04]And I just spoke from the heart
[19:06]and I've been happy that a lot of people
[19:08]have resonated with my mother.
[19:10]I've been happy and privileged to talk with so many
[19:12]people that are struggling with addiction
[19:14]and for them to feel like I humanized them
[19:16]and I showed parts of them that the world never get to see.
[19:19]And I'm thankful for that.
[19:20]Even though it was painful and it was tough to do,
[19:22]I am thankful for that.
[19:25]There was someone to not closely in my life,
[19:28]but who I knew who I knew was going through
[19:31]some addiction issues themselves.
[19:34]And I was like, angry about it.
[19:36]And then I was like, but you know what?
[19:37]I interview people who go through this all the time
[19:42]and I have nothing but compassion for them.
[19:44]Why would it be different for somebody that I know?
[19:47]So I feel like books are a way for all of us
[19:50]to see what maybe the people that we might even know
[19:54]aren't comfortable sharing.
[19:56]And so we learn more about the people in our own lives.
[20:00]because of people like you shine a light on others
[20:03]who are going through it, people who write memoirs
[20:05]about their own addiction.
[20:06]I know addiction is only one piece of your story,
[20:08]not even your eight of them, but anyway,
[20:10]I just, the power of the narrative is just,
[20:14]as you said, across every group of people,
[20:17]no matter what, it's amazing.
[20:19]Yeah, and it was just one of the reasons
[20:21]a lot I really wanted to take on this challenge
[20:23]or write about it, as painful as writing this book was,
[20:26]for me, it was much bigger than me.
[20:29]And this is why I travel and I go so hard
[20:31]to spread awareness about this book
[20:34]because I feel like this book can speak to every single person.
[20:38]And I know that sounds crazy, right?
[20:40]Because when you write a book,
[20:41]you wanna find your target audience,
[20:43]anybody that is a business owner
[20:45]who understand anything about marketing,
[20:47]what is your target audience?
[20:48]You can't reach every time.
[20:49]But I wanted to do it impossible.
[20:51]And I think no matter who you are,
[20:53]my book talks about everything from trends,
[20:56]from addiction, from, again, sexual assault,
[20:59]teenage pregnancy, from going through college,
[21:02]from coming together, from building a sense of community.
[21:05]So to be able to share all of these unique perspectives
[21:09]from my life, entire together,
[21:12]where it just runs smooth as a memoir,
[21:14]as it should be, was just, it made me feel so good.
[21:18]It made me feel like no matter who picks up my book,
[21:21]no matter what walk of life you come from,
[21:23]there is something to learn from it.
[21:24]And like again, like I said,
[21:26]even though it was hard to do,
[21:27]like I was happy, I think I was able to accomplish that.
[21:30]That's not for me to say that, that's for the reader,
[21:32]but I hope I'll talk about it.
[21:34]And can you give me a PS of everything
[21:38]that's going on for your siblings now?
[21:42]Yeah, of course.
[21:43]So my oldest brother, James,
[21:46]he helps me run a lot of my Airbnb's in Virginia,
[21:48]so we do real estate together,
[21:50]and he managed restaurants throughout the state of Virginia.
[21:52]So that's my oldest brother.
[21:54]My second oldest brother, Joshua,
[21:56]is a Grammy nominated opera singer.
[21:58]So he, which is at the Met, doing Malcolm X.
[22:01]He just had a bunch of shows here,
[22:03]and he's also a professor at the School of Music at Rochester.
[22:05]So he's doing amazing.
[22:07]He was just over here dropping gifts off.
[22:09]Oh, my thesis in Matthew.
[22:12]My third oldest brother, Justin,
[22:14]is a principal assistant principal in Virginia
[22:17]in Newport News, and he's also a social worker.
[22:19]And my sister is a stay-at-home mom now.
[22:22]She was doing nursing,
[22:24]but she's stay-at-home mom.
[22:25]She owns a beautiful home in Pennsylvania
[22:27]and with her husband and her three kids.
[22:30]And then it's me, the baby, doing a lot.
[22:34]I am still a respiratory therapist,
[22:36]specialized in neonates and pediatrics
[22:38]at a NYU Medical Center, a writer,
[22:41]a writer, and hopefully trying to get into production.
[22:44]So they have own things of that nature
[22:47]and just a whole art of storytelling.
[22:49]So my goal is just to share important stories,
[22:53]to share stories, usually,
[22:54]of people that don't get the opportunity to share their stories.
[22:56]And hopefully one day bring it into writing
[22:59]to the big screen and to all different walks of life
[23:02]and how we present media.
[23:03]So that's me.
[23:04]Terry Cole.
[23:05]And my parents, they live in Manhattan.
[23:08]They live in Manhattan.
[23:09]They're doing okay.
[23:10]Much better than what I was early years of life.
[23:13]And I'm proud of them.
[23:15]And they're still going through their journey
[23:17]and it's taking things one day at a time.
[23:18]And addiction is a complicated process,
[23:22]but they're doing much better.
[23:23]They are great grandparents.
[23:26]And we are still tight.
[23:28]There's no fallout.
[23:29]We'll be all be seeing each other for the holidays
[23:31]and God has blessed us tremendously.
[23:33]And think out, we all stick together
[23:35]and we're able to overcome a lot of these things together.
[23:38]It's so crazy that now I feel like I can imagine
[23:41]what your holidays are gonna look like.
[23:44]How much different than it was as a kid now?
[23:46]Yeah, right.
[23:47]I know, I'm like imagining everybody grown up
[23:49]and like the end of this movie.
[23:52]Is this gonna be a movie, by the way?
[23:54]Has this been optioned?
[23:56]So great question.
[23:57]So there's talks with Page Boy Productions
[24:01]to not really optioned the book,
[24:03]but to more focus on the narrative of me and Deco Story,
[24:05]which is great, which was the story
[24:07]that the world fell in love with with humans of New York.
[24:09]So there's talks of that happening recently.
[24:11]I just, we just shot a non-mon documentary
[24:14]about the Brooklyn debate league,
[24:15]which is a non-profit that me and Deco Cole funded
[24:17]with Vice News.
[24:19]And I am in some talks of doing another project
[24:22]with optioned the book that I can't speak of right now,
[24:25]but I'm very, very excited.
[24:27]So I'm promising me in this weekend.
[24:30]Just keep in my fingers crossed.
[24:32]As you know, Ziti, I'm Hollywood
[24:34]and production is complicated.
[24:36]There could be a lot of interest,
[24:37]but you just never know where it's gonna go.
[24:39]So just fingers crossed, but I promise
[24:41]that you'll be the first person on email
[24:43]very soon goes through.
[24:44]That'll be great.
[24:45]We could present it together first time,
[24:47]exclusive ones.
[24:48]They'd be on with media.
[24:49]Let's do it.
[24:51]I'm in.
[24:52]I'm in.
[24:52]I'll host to it.
[24:53]I'll host to from here.
[24:55]I'll host to it.
[24:56]Let's do it.
[24:56]I remember that, Ziti.
[24:58]I don't, I have, I'll have the transfer.
[25:00]You have your little autopilot here
[25:02]who's gonna, you know,
[25:03]they hold me to whatever I said.
[25:05]Oh my gosh.
[25:07]Oh, but yeah, yeah.
[25:07]So there's a lot of talks.
[25:09]And just besides, I'm just trying to give a picture space
[25:12]and help other people bring that story.
[25:13]So I'm still very, very new to this.
[25:16]Still learning a lot.
[25:17]So I'm humble.
[25:18]I'm looking for mentors and guides.
[25:19]And I'm confident that I have to work ethic
[25:23]and the capabilities of accomplishing everything.
[25:25]I truly believe that, truly believe in myself.
[25:27]So this is a new world I'm entering.
[25:29]And I'm just here to take in all the information
[25:31]and spend as much time as I need learning from
[25:34]on people that I've done it and are great at doing it.
[25:36]So well, I feel like I already know how you think
[25:40]and how you learn and like I feel like
[25:43]I've been through all this with you
[25:44]as you like got through school, you know?
[25:46]So I have no doubt.
[25:47]I believe you too.
[25:50]Thank you for that.
[25:50]That means a lot.
[25:52]Was there a part of the book writing process
[25:55]that you were like, oh, that was not so fun?
[25:57]Yeah, yeah.
[25:58]I think one of the toughest parts was round chapter seven
[26:02]when I was talking about my daughter,
[26:04]she's 10 Emily.
[26:05]So, you know, I was writing as a 16 year old,
[26:08]like, and I'm 29.
[26:09]So I think like I had to dive that far back.
[26:13]But just sitting there and walking through the Bronx
[26:16]and thinking about how I felt
[26:18]when I found that I was going to be a dad.
[26:20]My 11th grade year at high school.
[26:22]And how many times I wrote, I didn't want her.
[26:25]Well, I didn't want a baby.
[26:26]And I wanted her mom, who was not my wife.
[26:29]Well, we have three kids now.
[26:31]And I wanted her mom to not have her.
[26:34]That was very, very tough.
[26:35]And it was very, very emotional.
[26:37]And it was a lot of times I was like,
[26:39]I'm going to take this out.
[26:40]And then I had to look myself in the mirror and say,
[26:42]well, you told your parents secrets,
[26:44]you told all of these other people,
[26:46]see if you hold all these other people accountable,
[26:47]you have to be accountable.
[26:48]You have to look yourself in the mirror.
[26:50]And my daughter's 10, she is a genius.
[26:53]I catch her all the time trying to Google me
[26:55]and see what I'm up to.
[26:56]And I have forbid of her for reading the book now,
[26:59]but I'm pretty sure in a couple of years,
[27:00]maybe 15, no one heard.
[27:03]She probably was making it to her before that age.
[27:05]She will read it.
[27:06]And my old my fears,
[27:08]well, she see it as well.
[27:09]My dad was 16, he was thinking out.
[27:10]Well, she see it as well.
[27:11]He didn't want me.
[27:13]So that's something I battled.
[27:14]That's something that's very, very hard for me.
[27:16]It gives me a lot of anxiety.
[27:18]I didn't even know what anxiety really was.
[27:19]So it started to happen until me.
[27:21]And in the book, I also mentioned that she was what saved me.
[27:25]She is what gave me purpose.
[27:28]And I'm not saying that I'm not promoting teenage pregnancy
[27:30]at all, but it was very tough.
[27:33]There was a lot of hurdles that was just unnecessary
[27:36]that I brought onto myself.
[27:37]But what I was going through in my life at a time
[27:40]where I couldn't love myself,
[27:42]when I didn't have respect for my own life,
[27:44]Emily bought that sense of purpose for me.
[27:46]She forced me to get out the streets.
[27:48]She forced me to be a better person.
[27:49]She forced me to be the student I was,
[27:52]that's the only book.
[27:53]She forced me to get into the medicine.
[27:54]She forced me to dedicate it my life to give it back
[27:57]and letting people know that they're heard, they're loved.
[28:00]So without her, would you be talking to me?
[28:02]Is it being known?
[28:03]What without her, would it be a book known?
[28:06]Without her, I probably wouldn't be a lot.
[28:08]So it's a gift and a curse.
[28:10]But again, that's for her to decide how she views my writing
[28:16]and all I could do as a dad is respected
[28:19]and just remind her every day that I'm here that I love her
[28:21]and that she would have the greatest thing
[28:23]that ever happened to me.
[28:24]So that was a very tough moment.
[28:26]My parenting advice for what it's worth
[28:29]as a mom before much older, but probably not much wiser
[28:34]is to try to get ahead of that conversation
[28:36]before she finds out about her.
[28:37]So I mean, how can a child not be moved
[28:40]by what you just said to me?
[28:41]You may need to tell her all that
[28:42]and she'll put it herself in your shoes
[28:45]and but maybe don't let her find out through the book.
[28:47]Yeah, I think she starts.
[28:49]She's very good at math.
[28:49]So she's starting to do calculations
[28:51]and he's trying to look at me and she's like,
[28:52]you guys are pointing out, how's that possible?
[28:54]I'm like, what am I, I'm like, okay, okay, okay.
[28:58]But kids these days, they're just so bright.
[29:00]And the conversation made me to happen earlier
[29:03]than I wanted to be, but again,
[29:06]it's not for me to decide
[29:07]it's what she needs in that moment.
[29:08]I have to meet her there.
[29:09]So I'm dreading it, but maybe you're right.
[29:13]You're a thousand cent right.
[29:14]I need to get ahead of it before I catch her
[29:16]under her cover in her own reading the book,
[29:18]even though there's like, there's like 30 copies
[29:20]around the house.
[29:21]She can grab one meeting.
[29:23]So I've been trying to do a good job of hiding
[29:25]on my closet, but, you know,
[29:27]the conversation needs to happen sooner than later,
[29:29]but that was probably one of the toughest moments
[29:31]for me in the book.
[29:33]Well, I thought I was worried about some things.
[29:36]I wrote a memoir.
[29:37]I was worried about some things.
[29:38]My kids finding out and like you,
[29:40]they're copies everywhere.
[29:42]I'm like, well, have you still not read my book?
[29:44]What the heck?
[29:46]Oh, no, mom, you know, my 16 year old boy is like,
[29:48]no, yeah, I'm sure it's great, mom.
[29:50]You know, it's great.
[29:51]I'm like, okay, fine.
[29:53]Why did I even worry?
[29:54]It's your kids.
[29:56]Anyway, Jonathan, thank you so much.
[29:58]I wasn't supposed to be here,
[29:59]but.
[30:00]Who knows in the universe? I think you were supposed to be right here today. So thank you for coming
[30:04]Thank you so much. They'll be for having me and it's an honor to be here. I really appreciate you. Thank you
[30:09]Alright Jonathan take care. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much. They'll be appreciated. Thank you. Have a great day
[30:15]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books
[30:18]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zB ONs and at moms don't have time to read books
[30:23]Also sign up for my newsletter at zB ONs.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week
[30:30]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the sound editing and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and outroom music