Taylor Wolfe, BIRDIE & HARLOW: Life, Loss, and Loving My Dog So Much I Didn't Want Kids (...Until I Did)
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Taylor Wolf is the author of Birdie and Harlow.
[1:06]Life, loss, and loving my dog so much, I didn't want to have kids until I did.
[1:10]Taylor is a professional funny person on the internet.
[1:13]She is the writer behind the Daily Tape blog and found her in creative director of online
[1:17]clothing stores, The Taylor Wolf Shop, and Chili Wolf.
[1:20]Her work has been featured in today, The Dodo, and more.
[1:23]Welcome Taylor.
[1:24]Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss Birdie
[1:27]and Harlow.
[1:28]Life, loss, and loving my dog so much I didn't want kids until I did.
[1:32]Thank you for having me.
[1:33]It is a true honor to be here.
[1:35]Like, this is a very big deal to me, so I appreciate you inviting me on.
[1:39]Oh, well, you're a very big deal too, so there you go.
[1:43]Tell me about everything, how you started writing, blogging, book, and everything.
[1:49]Just give me the whole story, I'm totally fascinated.
[1:51]Okay.
[1:52]So it basically started with one of my favorite English professors a long time ago when I was
[1:57]in college.
[1:58]She's like, he told our class if you want to be a writer right every day.
[2:01]And so the fact it was 2009, I was like, well, I will start a blog, but back in 2009,
[2:06]I thought like our blogs dead, I remember thinking that, but I was like, whatever, I'm
[2:10]just going to do it.
[2:11]So I started a blog just to keep myself consistent.
[2:14]I didn't tell anybody about it for literally like two or three years.
[2:18]And then I kind of started to tell people a little bit, and it was my inner circle, and
[2:21]they shared posts, and you know, I got just a little bit bigger and bigger.
[2:24]I never thought it could be a job, never my intention.
[2:26]And I only thought like Perez Hilton and like Mormon model bloggers were bloggers, that's
[2:32]all I knew of.
[2:33]But I kept getting fired from jobs because I was not great at sales, and I just couldn't
[2:36]accept that.
[2:37]So finally, I think it was like, I got laid off from something, and I was like, I better
[2:42]figure out how to make this blog work because I'm not good at working for other people
[2:46]apparently.
[2:47]So I started to, you know, like small, like advertising things as one does, like, when
[2:52]you're just scraping by.
[2:54]And then I think it was, another part of my blog was I wanted to be home with my dog
[2:59]Harlow all the time because he was very needy and wonderful and energetic, and I would
[3:05]lock him in a crate to go to work.
[3:07]And I could just remember being like, this isn't fair to him.
[3:11]And I felt like I was in a crate at these jobs.
[3:13]So he was a big part of me trying to figure out something on my own.
[3:17]So while the blog wasn't making enough to pay Chicago rent, I started making graphic
[3:21]t-shirts.
[3:22]I started with an order of 12, put him on my credit card, and then those 12 shirts sold
[3:26]within like 10 minutes.
[3:27]So then I ordered 50, then 100, and then over 10 years later, I'm still selling graphic
[3:31]teas.
[3:32]And I was much in thanks to Harlow trying to push me to do my own thing.
[3:37]Anyway, so there that was the blogging part, and then Instagram came around, and I was
[3:41]resistant to that because I was like, I don't like thinking photos.
[3:44]Like this is not fun, but I got on there, and then I was so thankful when like reels came
[3:49]about because I like creating like videos and like, you know, comedy stuff because
[3:53]in Chicago, I did stand up in second city.
[3:56]So all these things are leading up to this book.
[3:59]And I think what was the final push was 2020 when we were on our phones even more than
[4:03]usual.
[4:05]And I was making these reels about mom life.
[4:08]One of my big ones that took off was mom troll.
[4:10]It was just my impression of the moms who told me usually about breastfeeding.
[4:14]People seem to have a lot of opinions about breasts, other people's breasts.
[4:18]And so I would feel really down about it until I could put on a wig and put lipstick
[4:21]all over my face and just like, basically troll them back.
[4:24]Anyway, so that got the attention of my literary agent.
[4:28]And I found her through a friend of mine who we met at second city, and she's like, she
[4:33]doesn't just make funny videos, like she's also a writer.
[4:36]So I pitched this book about funny mom essays and about three months into this Harlow died,
[4:44]and I was not feeling funny.
[4:45]I was devastated.
[4:47]And so I basically told Abby, my agent, I was like, I can't, I'm not writing right now.
[4:51]I'm crushed.
[4:52]I have to get through this grief.
[4:53]So I'm just writing about Harlow.
[4:55]And I put those up as blog posts because that's how I've always gotten through tough
[4:58]things.
[4:59]And so then I told Abby a few months after Har died, I was like, what if this book isn't
[5:05]necessarily funny mom essays entirely, but it's about mom life and grief.
[5:10]And I'm like, and basically what led me to mom life.
[5:12]I didn't know that was the way I would get there, but it was a completely roundabout way.
[5:16]So it's, you know, hard leading me to realize I wanted to be a mom.
[5:20]There's still fun mom essays, but then there's also losing my best friend in there too.
[5:24]So life loss and loving my dog so much, I didn't want kids until I did.
[5:29]Wow.
[5:30]I felt like I was being very fast there.
[5:31]I know.
[5:32]Slow down.
[5:33]This is so great.
[5:34]Oh my God.
[5:35]I've had like 18 cups of coffee.
[5:36]It's just starting.
[5:37]I've told me to chill.
[5:38]It looks like you're having like 1,000 cups of water to offset the coffee center.
[5:44]Look at that mug.
[5:45]Oh my God.
[5:46]So funny.
[5:47]A little bit.
[5:48]Okay.
[5:49]So by the way, I read the FAQ on your side and you're so funny.
[5:52]When they said like someone was like, you know, why are you a blogger saying it's
[5:57]something like, you know, last resort, like you had no other choice, which is so funny.
[6:02]Because writing is not like a last resort necessarily type of thing, right?
[6:07]It's a, some people struggle so much to write anything that sounds good and other people
[6:13]like you can just like come out all the time.
[6:16]I feel like the challenge is what to write.
[6:18]It must be more like what to write about and when and how versus the art, I don't know.
[6:23]I'm actually, let me just make that a question.
[6:25]Tell me more about that.
[6:27]Right now I, oh my gosh, this is like what my breakdowns are about right now.
[6:31]We're willing to find the time to write because I absolutely love getting up really early
[6:36]and my toddler loves getting up really early too.
[6:39]So like, ideally I would get up at like four, three or five.
[6:44]And she hears me because oftentimes she's sleeping next to me and so I don't, I'm not
[6:50]finding the time.
[6:51]I feel like I can't find that right now, but I keep reminding myself it will come back.
[6:55]All those cliche things we hear and read like this too shall pass.
[6:58]This is a tough season.
[6:59]I'm in a tough season of no sleep and like not being able to write.
[7:03]So I don't have the time today, but hopefully tomorrow, the way I finished this book
[7:08]and started it was we were in a good group of sleep, but the number one rule of sleep with
[7:12]little kids is you don't talk about it when it's good, you know, so I still look back.
[7:17]I'm like, how did I finish this?
[7:19]Obviously like my husband was a huge child, but I don't even remember if that answered
[7:23]your question because I just started thinking about how I haven't had time to write.
[7:27]I'm so anxious about it.
[7:28]But, oh, okay, I don't want to keep on any more cliches, but I really think part of writing
[7:34]is collecting the information you're going to write about like it's a two part process.
[7:38]You can't just like sit in a vacuum.
[7:39]Yes.
[7:40]So when you're out there living a lot, it just means you just have one material to write
[7:45]about later.
[7:46]So you can't like do one without the other.
[7:49]That's true.
[7:50]That helps me.
[7:51]I'm breathing a little bit.
[7:52]I'm collecting a lot right now.
[7:53]You're collecting a lot.
[7:54]You're going to have a ton of stuff to write about later.
[7:56]Yes.
[7:57]Okay.
[7:58]Now is your season of, you know, you're like an investigator and you haven't written
[8:02]your opinion.
[8:03]Does that make you feel better?
[8:04]That's exactly.
[8:05]That doesn't make me feel better.
[8:06]Yeah.
[8:07]Now if I could just, you know, clear my brain out to write all these things now that
[8:10]I'm collecting.
[8:11]But they'll come back.
[8:12]They'll come back in like fiction.
[8:14]And like one day you'll be like, where did that come from?
[8:16]And you're going to be like, oh, maybe it was from when my kid was two and I was
[8:20]did it.
[8:21]Anyway.
[8:22]Yeah.
[8:23]That's the magic of it.
[8:24]Yeah.
[8:25]Plus you have to do book publicity in the middle of all that, right?
[8:26]Yes, I do.
[8:27]And how is that?
[8:28]I know you're on the two end, but, you know, I'm on the two end.
[8:31]September was a little crazy.
[8:33]You know, before we started, I was like, I want to do everything.
[8:36]I want to go everywhere.
[8:37]I'm going to bring Bernie is almost three goldies, almost six months.
[8:40]And I was like, we're going to bring the kids and like, I knew it would be hard.
[8:43]And I was like, I'm going to do it.
[8:45]This is my chance.
[8:46]And then we got home from, I think, like the first two stops and I was like, I'm done.
[8:50]I'm tired.
[8:51]I wasn't really done, but like my mind just shifted because I didn't like take into
[8:56]account the emotional toll of it because I'm doing these readings in front of like, people,
[9:02]not just my phone.
[9:05]And there's quite a vulnerability hangover after this, it's such like a thrill to meet
[9:11]people in real life that, you know, a lot of them have been like, I followed you for like
[9:15]10 years.
[9:16]And I remember like, when hard was a puppy and I remember like, when you had your miscarriage
[9:20]and you talked about it.
[9:21]So it's like wonderful on that aspect, but then to like, share all this for like 40 minutes
[9:27]and then meet all these people and hug them.
[9:29]I like shell and myself, like, oh my gosh, like, did I share too much too late?
[9:35]She already did.
[9:36]And I never regret it, but there is like that vulnerability hangover and like, yeah, coming
[9:42]home from doing these things.
[9:45]I needed to sleep for a while.
[9:46]I love that expression.
[9:48]I didn't get to, but I think that should be on another one of your t-shirts.
[9:52]Could you do that?
[9:53]I would buy that shirt.
[9:54]Yeah.
[9:55]Yeah.
[9:56]Or like, I could, but I would definitely quote Renee Brown.
[10:00]Well, let's tell, whatever.
[10:02]I didn't realize that was one of her snips.
[10:04]I feel silly, but I'm a big brinee brown fan, so when she shared that, I was like, oh my
[10:09]gosh, that's what it's called.
[10:11]It's just nice to name things.
[10:12]I don't know why it is, but it makes you feel a little better about it.
[10:15]But you also have this whole lifestyle brand at the same time, and you have the hiking
[10:20]stuff, and you have like, how are you managing all the different businesses?
[10:24]Where did they all come from?
[10:25]How did everything expand?
[10:27]Tell me.
[10:28]Is this still the same person?
[10:29]Tell me.
[10:30]Tell me a little bit.
[10:31]You say, how do you manage it?
[10:34]My response is not well, not very well, and when you're like, they're kind of, is it all
[10:41]the same person?
[10:42]I've never had a niche, and I've like leaned into not having a niche.
[10:47]It's not been intentional, but I got a lot of things going on up here, and it all started
[10:53]like literally 10 years ago for me not wanting to like have a corporate job because I know
[10:58]for some people that is great, and they love structure, and they love that lifestyle,
[11:03]and it just like killed my soul.
[11:05]I felt like a caged animal, and so I was like, I'm going to do anything.
[11:09]I have to do to work for myself, and that's continued, and I just keep reaching everywhere
[11:17]to make sure I can never have to be in a cubicle again, and that has led to all these different
[11:22]brands.
[11:23]I should scale down, but I don't know.
[11:25]My brand is a little bit all over the place.
[11:28]I think I do need to work on focusing a little bit more.
[11:32]Ideally, I just want to write books.
[11:34]That's what this book release was a big part of like, step one, and really leaning into
[11:39]my dream life, because I love writing as the part that makes me feel like the most complete.
[11:45]I love doing the Instagram videos to silly stuff like that, but it is very short-lived.
[11:49]It is a little toxic, I think, at least for me because I'm like, the first day I post
[11:53]something, oh, that's so fun.
[11:54]Look at all the likes and engagement, and then the next day it's like, oh, I better do
[11:58]something new now, another video, but writing is the stuff that just feels more real to me,
[12:03]so it feels better for my mental health too, so I'm hoping to scale back up, let other
[12:09]people run the other things, and then I can just keep writing books.
[12:13]Do you like reading books, also?
[12:15]Yes, they do, and who do you like to read?
[12:18]It probably won't surprise you after you've seen my brand.
[12:20]I read like 10 books at once, which I'm just one of those people.
[12:24]I've finished, I'm in a memoir phase, so I just finished Molly Shannon's.
[12:27]I really love that book.
[12:28]I love Molly Shannon, I'm reading people I enjoyed.
[12:31]I just finished Britney Spears, that one in like 48 hours.
[12:36]I was a huge Britney fan as a kid, and have you read it?
[12:40]I have it here, and I'm like, I really want to read that, but it's like not on the schedule,
[12:44]so I have like, I really should be reading the books where I'm about to talk to the others.
[12:49]Any time that I have wrote one like that, I'm not going to talk to Britney Spears,
[12:53]so do I read it or not?
[12:54]So I haven't read it yet.
[12:55]It was a very self-endholder read for me, but like many of her fans are like, what happened?
[13:00]Where do you, what happened here?
[13:01]And it made me angry.
[13:04]I mean, I know I'm not on here to talk about Britney Spears, but I wish I was, because I could talk about it for hours,
[13:08]because I am mad at her family.
[13:11]But anyway, other books, I'm a big Sedaris fan.
[13:14]I'm reading Gary Jeanetti's memoir.
[13:17]Have you read a book by Liz Astroph, called Don't Wait Up Confessions of a State Work, Mom?
[13:22]No.
[13:22]I feel like this will really, you were like the target for this book.
[13:26]I laughed so hard and it's about her as a mom, but her, it's, she used to write for all these
[13:33]funny TV shows.
[13:34]You should get that next.
[13:35]It's really funny.
[13:36]Yes, I will.
[13:37]Okay.
[13:38]Can you show me the title of it again?
[13:39]Her name is Liz Astroph, but actually she renamed it for the paperback.
[13:41]It was called Don't Wait Up Confessions of a State Work, Mom.
[13:44]Actually, now I think it's just called the State Work, Mom, because she wants to say
[13:47]she doesn't really work.
[13:48]Only in not going home to her kids.
[13:49]Yeah.
[13:50]I mean, she obviously, she doesn't mean it, well, actually, I shouldn't even know.
[13:56]She kind of means it.
[13:57]No, it's all hard, it's hard.
[13:59]But I feel like you're since the humor, yeah, stay at work, Mom.
[14:02]Now, now your time every new series, I'm talking about this other book, but stay at work,
[14:05]mom, marriage, kids, and other disasters.
[14:07]So there you go.
[14:08]Yeah, when did it come out?
[14:09]Sometime in the last five years, and the paperback, I don't know, paperback came out.
[14:14]I don't know.
[14:16]Okay.
[14:17]Any other books we want to swap for?
[14:19]I'm reading, I think it's called The Humans, or I just downloaded it after I shared
[14:25]on Instagram that when I'm feeling really anxious.
[14:28]I like to go outside and look at everything as if I'm an alien, I've never seen it before.
[14:32]And people are like, that's the premise of this book called Humans.
[14:34]Oh, you read that one?
[14:35]I have not.
[14:36]But I don't know that that would make me feel better.
[14:38]That would just make me worry more about like, well, what if, you know, what if, the
[14:43]aliens get, what am I going to do?
[14:44]Where am I going to go?
[14:46]Then my mind will just spin.
[14:48]So yeah.
[14:49]But I'll check it out.
[14:50]Maybe not read that.
[14:53]When you were building up this sort of multi-faceted brand where you have retail and you
[14:57]have suggestions and everything in your closet and all of this stuff, do you think of yourself
[15:02]as a lifestyle brand?
[15:04]Is that what you're aspiring to?
[15:06]Or has it just happened so organically, you haven't even thought about it?
[15:10]It's just been organically honest.
[15:12]Like, I think if you want to put me, you know, under a label, you can, you can call me
[15:18]lifestyle brand.
[15:20]I would prefer if you called me a comedian, writer, that's kind of, and I know like my huge
[15:25]stick is being an influencer, but I'm resistant to that.
[15:29]I don't know why.
[15:30]It's my own thing.
[15:31]But it's not.
[15:32]Okay.
[15:33]Correct.
[15:34]Yeah.
[15:35]Amazing.
[15:36]Okay.
[15:37]Do you want to do more in-person stand-up stuff?
[15:38]City-ish?
[15:39]Improv and all that?
[15:40]I do.
[15:41]Yeah.
[15:42]Yes.
[15:43]I did a lot more of that in my 20s in Chicago, and I stopped because I got tired of the
[15:49]nightlife.
[15:50]I'm not a nightlife person, and I would host like an open mic that started at 10 p.m.
[15:55]on a Monday.
[15:56]Oh, man.
[15:57]I think of that all the time now.
[15:58]And I'm like, yes, like, I clutch my pearls.
[16:01]I don't wear them.
[16:02]I'm like, how'd you do that?
[16:04]I have to plan like a doctor's appointment, like six months out to mentally prepare.
[16:09]I don't know.
[16:10]But so the night, like even I've lived in my 20s without kids, I was like, this is too
[16:13]much.
[16:14]Yeah.
[16:15]So luckily, this is when Instagram reels came out.
[16:17]So I could still get that like comedy fix from reels.
[16:20]Yeah.
[16:21]And I was like, this is great.
[16:22]I'm reaching hundreds of thousands more people than in person, but then when I went
[16:27]on tour, I was like, oh, there's something to live audience.
[16:30]Obviously.
[16:31]I like made myself forget that, but there's definitely something to it.
[16:34]So I got a taste of doing like stand up again, and it was really great.
[16:39]But like I said, I also came home very tired.
[16:41]So I'm still trying to figure out how to do that, but I definitely would like to more.
[16:47]And do you have any advice on how you managed to get through Harlow's loss and like
[16:52]other people who are grieving the loss of pets or anything, like how did you end up getting
[16:57]past all of that?
[16:58]Not that you ever get past.
[17:00]That's the wrong word.
[17:01]How did you get through it?
[17:03]I was going to say, yeah, you don't get past it, you carry it, and you learn how to carry
[17:06]it.
[17:07]Writing was so helpful for me, like as cathartic as it could get, like immediately when
[17:14]he died, like within days, I was like, I just got, I have to start writing about it.
[17:19]And it's interesting when you, you know, write about this hard stuff and then you decide
[17:24]to share it.
[17:25]Like I had these weird things I did that I was like, this is just me, like just one
[17:29]example is I would go through old codes and I checked if there was a receipt in there.
[17:34]I would be like, don't check the receipt, don't check the receipt and I would check
[17:37]it because I wanted to see the date and oh my god, I'm not sleeping.
[17:41]I've stopped like crying about this, but when you don't sleep, you cry about anything.
[17:46]Anyway, I would check receipts, see if he was still with me, if we go to ace hardware.
[17:51]Because I could like remember my ace hardware, but you know, specific times, like this
[17:56]is when he was still with me.
[17:57]And then I shared that in the here, like other people did that exact same weird ritual.
[18:01]It's like comforting to know we're all so weird.
[18:05]So that whole like part, that was just the initial like blog post.
[18:09]And then when I actually like dug in deeper to writing, like one thing, again, I always
[18:14]like crying when I talk about this, but mornings with my dog were so special and they were
[18:19]just, just getting up in the morning, you know, really early pre-kids and he would sit
[18:24]on my legs and I would write enough coffee and it was just like so calm and nice.
[18:28]So I love mornings with him and that when he died, I didn't love mornings because they
[18:33]were just like brutal and I knew what I lost.
[18:37]Anyway, when I got to write about this, it felt like I got those good mornings back with
[18:41]him, just I could sit on the couch and I would even like the whole like fluff blanket for
[18:46]him to come with me, which I understand as bananas, felt like I got time with him because
[18:51]I would go deep in my brain so things I hadn't thought about forever.
[18:54]You know, like in the book I talked about our early mornings at the playgrounds in Chicago
[18:58]before the kids would arrive and we could play on the jungle gyms.
[19:01]So like I was thinking of all these things and then it became less sad because I was like
[19:05]oh my god, hard.
[19:06]That was so fun.
[19:07]We did that.
[19:08]And like, you know, just when you get an excuse to think about these memories and you don't
[19:11]need an excuse to go down that, you know, path in your mind, but having this book gave
[19:17]me like full advantage, it's just been hours doing it and so that was like I came out
[19:21]of it like happier and thinking about like how lucky it was that I got that time with him.
[19:28]We're before and I know this is just a part of grieving.
[19:30]I was so angry.
[19:31]You left me like even 10 years in the good amount to go to the dog, but it's never good
[19:37]enough.
[19:38]So I went through all the stages of super sad and then super mad, like grief is frustrating
[19:42]and I did not know that because hard was my first big loss.
[19:46]We just went on a journey there.
[19:48]I'm sorry about that.
[19:49]Please don't apologize.
[19:51]I'm so sorry.
[19:52]I can just feel how like that you articulated it really well and it's so raw and it's
[19:58]beautiful.
[20:00]all can relate in one way shape or form. And you're going to have a vulnerability hangover again.
[20:05]I mean, I don't know what to say. Oh, I know. Yeah. Just try to talk. Oh my gosh. Well, I believe in
[20:12]the power of writing also and how somehow it does whatever we need our brains to do and to help us
[20:18]get through it. So, but it's a really good reminder to see how even the thought of writing can
[20:24]bring it back. Yeah. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors? And then I'll let you go
[20:31]because you're so tired and you should go and take a nap. I hope I have not said that too much. When
[20:36]I said sleep like the 15th time, I was like, stop saying that word like on here with you. I feel like
[20:41]I'm sorry. It's hard not to focus on it when you're so tired. I spent years to sleep
[20:49]and I'm still, I get it. I have four kids. I totally understand what it's like to try to focus
[20:55]in a regular world when you're like operating on like another plane for a long time.
[21:00]We're just in the thick of it and it's like the TV and all the things. Anyway, so my advice for
[21:06]aspiring writers is to go back to what? My professor, Mr. Shapiro said, write every day because it
[21:14]really is all the things like you learn in school. They're true. Who knew? Like teachers know
[21:20]what they're talking about? The like the instrument of it. You know, the rhythm of writing. Like
[21:24]when I'm in a good pace of it, it comes so much easier. You know, and so that's what blogging did
[21:30]for me. It taught me the rhythm of it to keep doing it daily. And then also, and I don't know what
[21:37]what people feel about manifesting, but I would write down very specific goals. And that apart,
[21:42]that's writing too. You know, like I have all these dream journals. I've always said my biggest
[21:46]fear in life is someone finding my dream journals because they are so embarrassing. But like
[21:51]long before I ever knew how to get a literary agent, I would write in the present like tense,
[21:56]like I have a literary agent. I wrote that like every day for five or six years. And at some
[22:00]point, I was like, I'm never going to get one because I got so many rejections. And I'm like,
[22:04]this isn't going to happen. And it did. And it's not just like magic woo-woo stuff, but I think it
[22:08]just gets you in the good mindset of like, you know, treating, if you want it to be your job,
[22:14]your career, the business side of things, you know, I have a writing agent. I have a great publisher.
[22:19]I would just write down these things that I really wanted. And I have no idea how to get them.
[22:24]But then I just keeps you like working toward it. So write every day and also manifest every day
[22:29]because there's something to that just like positive mindset, I think.
[22:33]No, that's good. I love it. I'm like, what would I even want to manifest? I don't know. Let me think
[22:37]about my next, let me think about that. It's good. Everybody should think about it. You know,
[22:40]so many things. Yeah. Yeah. So many things. It just puts you in a good mood. Like it's fun.
[22:44]It's fun to just sit there and like write all these things you want as if they've already
[22:47]happened. There's something I get moved. I'm going to do it right after this. I have so much
[22:52]energy. There you go. Well, Taylor, thank you for chatting and being so open and for your book
[23:01]and everything else. Good luck. I would say all the expression. Thank you so much for having me.
[23:06]It will get better. Hang on to the good days. Some days are usually the good days
[23:11]or right after a really bad day. And Simon, full days, you know, it's just moments. It's hours.
[23:16]Yeah. Yeah. You bad hour and then they'll all be something super cute. I'm like, it's worth it.
[23:20]That's just the crazyness of motherhood. I get it. I get it. It makes no sense. Totally get it.
[23:26]Okay. Do it the right. Thank you. Have a good day. Bye bye.
[23:32]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[23:36]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[23:40]Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[23:46]lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. In fact, texture sound
[23:50]for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic
[23:55]intro and out trim music.