Ali Rosen, RECIPE FOR SECOND CHANCES
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[1:03]Allie Rosen is the author of Recipe for Second Chances.
[1:07]She is a cookbook author, TV host, writer, and rom-com author.
[1:11]She's mostly known for her work in food as someone who has been obsessed with the intersection
[1:15]between cooking that is easy and impressive looking.
[1:19]Her show on NYC Life called Potluck is in its 15th season.
[1:23]Her cookbooks include modern freezer meals and bring it in the upcoming 15 minute meals.
[1:29]She can catch her cooking in other places like the Today Show People Magazine of Food
[1:33]Network Kitchen.
[1:35]She is very proud to have been honored with nominations for the James Beard Award to
[1:39]Emmys and two IACP Awards.
[1:42]She was named a Forbes 30 under 30.
[1:45]And Thrillist once said she is the coolest job in food.
[1:49]Welcome, Allie.
[1:50]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:51]On mom's don't have time to read books to discuss recipe for second chances.
[1:56]Congratulations.
[1:57]Thank you.
[1:58]Thank you so much for having me on.
[2:00]That's my pleasure.
[2:01]Your book is really good.
[2:02]You're a good writer.
[2:03]It's like smart women's fiction, rom-com, like great voice, like all the things you look
[2:10]for and one of these is a scapist, you know, rom-com abroad, you know, all of it.
[2:16]It's great.
[2:17]Yeah.
[2:18]It's just I wanted to write a book that I would have fun reading, which I think is kind
[2:20]of what happened to all of us in 2020 and we're like, we think we need a little easier
[2:25]things that also tackle issues, but I mean, that you know end happily and like you
[2:30]don't have to worry about it.
[2:31]So yeah, I'm so excited for it to be coming out and for people to start reading it.
[2:37]Oh my gosh.
[2:38]And you are not, well, first of all, tell everybody what it's about and then how your
[2:42]own, you know, chef-dom cookbook writer James Beard stuff, TV hosts, all of that comes
[2:50]into the book and how you bring your own unique point of view for the foodie parts.
[2:56]Yeah.
[2:57]Well, the book is a second chance romance about a woman who is really kind of at a crossroads
[3:01]in her life professionally.
[3:03]She writes recipes for living for magazine and she's going to one of her best friends
[3:07]weddings in Umbria in Italy and she runs into the man that she had a difficult breakup
[3:12]with almost a decade before.
[3:15]And so the book goes back and forth where you see kind of what went wrong before and
[3:19]sort of in the mix of this beautiful wedding in the Italian countryside and it's an
[3:24]Indian Italian wedding.
[3:25]So it's just filled with fun and food and joy.
[3:29]And I took a lot from my life because I'm a cookbook author and I also host a show on public
[3:33]television about food.
[3:34]So and I love Italy.
[3:37]So it's kind of a way to take all the things I love and then bring them into the other
[3:40]thing that I love, which is, you know, I'm I'm such a voracious reader.
[3:45]I love I love the romance category and just how smart and interesting it has become in
[3:50]the recent years, which is not to diminish past romance.
[3:54]But I that space that you said in the beginning of kind of between women's fiction
[3:58]and romance, I think has really gained in popularity and recent years and for good reason
[4:03]because people want something that okay, they know will end okay, but we also want to
[4:07]be challenged a little bit along the way.
[4:09]So I was just really inspired to write something fun and different from kind of the cooking
[4:15]things that I normally do.
[4:16]So yeah, that turned into a recipe for second chances.
[4:19]Not everyone can just be like, I'm going to try writing a novel and have it come off
[4:23]this way.
[4:24]Usually there are several in a drawer or you've been thinking about it or trying it,
[4:29]speaking from personal experience here.
[4:31]How did you do it?
[4:32]Did you try a few others or did you just go at it, you know, cold?
[4:36]It was kind of COVID burnout, I, you know, I've been a reader my whole life and whenever
[4:43]people ask for writing advice, and I'm sure you say this is hell, you just have to be
[4:47]a reader.
[4:48]But I had always been a much more, I don't want to say literary reader because I think
[4:53]that diminishes the genre, but I sort of read the things that I felt like I was supposed
[4:56]to be reading.
[4:57]And then during COVID, I was just like, I need to just read things that are escape.
[5:03]And I discovered so many authors that just blew my mind and I was like, wow, there is
[5:08]this space kind of between women's fiction and romance that I fell in love with.
[5:14]And it really started percolating for me, like, oh, what if, you know, what if I wrote this
[5:19]kind of story and a particular idea, this idea came into mind.
[5:23]And I just started writing kind of as a writing exercise, like, I'm burnt out.
[5:28]I had finished, you know, my second cookbook and, you know, the summer of 2021, I was like,
[5:33]I just, I need to do something different.
[5:35]So I started writing really with no agenda.
[5:37]I didn't tell anyone in my life because I was like, well, who wants to hear about your
[5:42]novel?
[5:43]You know, and I mean, I have no, you know, right, I don't have an MFA.
[5:48]I haven't been doing this my whole life.
[5:50]And I just, I really fell in love with this little story and so I just kept writing it
[5:55]and it turned into this book, which it's still wild to me.
[5:59]But yeah, it's, I sort of chalk it up to if you read a lot, hopefully you can find
[6:05]your own voice and your own way to bring something new to the space that you love.
[6:10]So I haven't read your cookbook, so although, no, no, I have to get them.
[6:14]Are they your voice?
[6:15]Like, is this your, is this basically the same voice he did, you know, trying to say is it?
[6:20]Yes.
[6:21]No, I mean, it's been really funny to have my close friends read my fiction because
[6:25]they're like, well, just, it sounds like you talking to me, you know, it's, so I think
[6:29]my cookbooks have always been also very approachable.
[6:32]You know, my goal, you know, I'm a mom of three kids.
[6:35]I live in New York City.
[6:38]I work full time.
[6:39]I mean, I, my cookbooks are very much not precious.
[6:43]You know, they are like, for people who are busy and want to get stuff done, you know,
[6:48]the first book is about potlucks, the second book is about freezer food and my next
[6:51]book is about 15 minute meals.
[6:52]So I've always seen it as like, let me hold your hand and guide you through it as kind
[6:58]of a fellow person who has no time.
[7:01]So yes, it's, I don't, you know, I admire authors that have the ability to sort of take
[7:06]on completely different voices, but I'm not sure I'll ever be that person.
[7:10]But yes, I think, yeah, I think my, I think my writing reflects me kind of, I don't think
[7:15]writing for cookbooks and writing for fiction is that different.
[7:18]It's just, you're sort of, it's a different narrative.
[7:20]It's a different story and it's a different structure.
[7:22]You know, writing is writing and it's just about how you structure it.
[7:26]And we need a mom's done have time to cook some brand here.
[7:29]You can be the champion of that.
[7:31]My God.
[7:32]Yeah, we don't have time for anything and yet we do everything.
[7:36]Do you still cook for your family every night after doing all this stuff in this?
[7:40]No, I mean, no, I'm every night that is impossible.
[7:43]I mean, and some nights it really is like, here are some grapes and salami and left
[7:49]in my pasta in your welcome.
[7:50]I mean, no, and that, you know, 15 minute meals really came out of COVID when I was cooking
[7:56]all three meals for my whole family and I was like, now there just has to be an easier
[8:01]way to get this on the table because, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm very lucky to be able
[8:07]to do the work that I do and I get to work from home and we have a lot of help and all
[8:12]of those things make it possible.
[8:14]But no, I mean, I think cooking every single day for your kids, you just have to figure
[8:18]out the way to balance, you know, meal prep with doing it in the moment with also not,
[8:25]like just forgive yourself when it's taco Tuesday and you're shoving tomatoes and cheese
[8:30]into a taco shell.
[8:31]Like that's fine too, you know, like because it's fine.
[8:34]Breakfast for dinner again, oh, oh my God, my husband did all our cooking and COVID
[8:42]is amazing.
[8:43]He's from an Italian family and like, but like loves it, you know, like he relishes his
[8:48]time in the kitchen and will take as long as it needs and just like enjoys it and then
[8:53]would come up with these meals and like put them out for us to enjoy and like of course
[8:56]the kids are like, I don't like this.
[8:57]I don't like this.
[8:58]And like two minutes later, we're done and he's like, you've taken all the joy away from
[9:02]cooking.
[9:03]Yeah, and there's a time for both.
[9:06]I mean, I think that's what sort of people look at it as like one thing or the other.
[9:09]Like you can cook something great super quickly and you can also spend the whole day, you
[9:15]know, laboring over something and they're both valid.
[9:18]Yeah, it's really just about forgiving yourself.
[9:21]And I think that's what reading, you know, one of the things that I love about your
[9:24]podcast and what you've done is that people need to give themselves permission to do things
[9:30]the way that they want to, you know, and I think that's been the biggest lesson for me
[9:33]in recent years.
[9:34]It's like, I'm going to read what I want to.
[9:36]I don't care that someone, everyone has told me I have to read this book.
[9:39]I don't want to, you know, I want to read something else.
[9:42]I want to cook something else.
[9:43]I want to do, you know, you have to sort of, yeah, give yourself the permission to find
[9:49]the joy and the things that you find joy and the way that you find joy in them.
[9:52]You know, cooking is not a joy for everyone, but if you can find the ways to make it
[9:56]joyful for you, you know, then that matters so much more of them.
[10:00]doing it the exact right way.
[10:01]And that's interesting what you say about, you know, the books you should read,
[10:05]the things you should like, I mean, even now, I was in my book story the other day, and everyone's
[10:09]like, well, everybody loves this book. And I was like, I am the only person who does not love this
[10:13]book. What's wrong with me? Like, I thought I had sort of popular taste. Did I mean like,
[10:19]but what am I missing or maybe I'm weird? Like, it feels like there's something wrong with you,
[10:26]if you're the one who doesn't like something that everyone else in the world seems to be
[10:29]liking, and then you're like ashamed. Yeah. And it's hard because, right, you don't know,
[10:36]you know, you think your opinion isn't valid. But I would say like, I mean, the thing for me as a
[10:40]first-time author that's been very helpful is I've gone to the Goodreads pages of books that I adore,
[10:46]and I read the one, two, three-star reviews. And I'm like, this book that I love
[10:52]is not for everyone. Some people, you know, I especially love books with really complicated
[10:57]female characters that are not necessarily always the good guy. You know, I don't, I don't mind
[11:02]them messing up. And it's, you know, and that certainly readers of my book, you know, if you don't
[11:07]like a complex heroine, please don't read my book. That is the feedback that I have gotten from Goodreads.
[11:13]But on the flip side of that, it's like the people that love it really love it and the people
[11:18]that don't connect to it, don't connect to it. And that's totally fine. You know, if you're not,
[11:23]every book is not for every person. And that's okay. And I think it's, I think one of the things
[11:30]it is great about podcasts and review sites in a way that is so different sort of how we grew up
[11:35]with like, here's the review in the newspaper. And this is the definitive thing is that
[11:39]you get a little bit more context. Like sometimes from the two-star reviews, I get more context
[11:45]about a book. Like, oh, this has like a really, you know, messy, tragic heroine. Well, actually,
[11:51]I might like that. You didn't like that. But I will, or books, you know, like I don't like
[11:55]in a romance book. I don't love a third act breakup. You know, I don't like when there's some like
[11:59]contrived breakup thing. Okay. So sometimes I see that in a review. And I'm like, oh, great. Then this
[12:04]book isn't for me. But I know, I mean, I know so many readers who love that. So I think getting that
[12:10]context as a reader is really special because there are so many great books. And we all, it's like,
[12:16]you know, you look at the list and the things that people tell you what to read. And it's like,
[12:19]we're all supposed to be reading the same 15 or 20 books a year. And that's insane because there's
[12:24]so, I mean, the number of interviews that you do with authors is just a testament to how many
[12:29]amazing books there are and you get to choose. You know, like the reason there's so many great
[12:33]books is because there's a reader for every type of book. You don't have to, you don't have to read
[12:38]the book that's at the top of the bestseller list. Like that's okay. In fact, you shouldn't
[12:42]because, you know, you have something interesting to say here. This is, I want to like frame this
[12:47]whole thing. And by the way, it's really hard for me to narrow it down. I know that sounds ridiculous,
[12:56]but to narrow it down to three hundred and sixty five five guys take so much time and work. Like
[13:01]there are so many other books that I don't even cover because this is just my personal taste,
[13:05]right? Like you like, I have things that I like, but you know, there are plenty of things that
[13:09]other people would like that I pass on, but not to say they're not good. They're so good. They're
[13:13]just not what I want to read. So anyway, very interesting. When you talk by the way about, you know,
[13:19]not to say comps, but books that you love in the same that inspired you to write recipe for
[13:24]second chances or that you look to as models. Like what were some of those or who are some of those
[13:29]authors? Oh, God, I could go on for all eternity. I mean, I think two Williams books seven days in
[13:34]June is one of my all-time favorites. I love Kate Claiborne. She's another author that again,
[13:40]people either adore her or totally dislike her because she's very, it's not a big plot. It's more
[13:45]emotional. It's emotional journey. So if you like those types of books, all of her books, but her most
[13:50]recent book, Georgie, all along, just really floored me. And I loved it so much. All of Abby
[13:57]human as his books, I think were just fantastic. But part of your world and yours truly her recent
[14:02]books, I adore. And then a lot of the debuts this year have just been amazing. You with a view
[14:09]by Jessica Joyce. I loved you again by Kate Goldbeck. Again, a very stereotypically unlikable
[14:15]heroine, but I just adore her. And I, you know, if you like kind of cranky, difficult, really
[14:22]New York women, you again is just like, it was just perfection. So yeah, there are, it's amazing to
[14:29]me. You know, I sort of like many people kind of started on like the Emily Henry track. And then
[14:35]you start to realize like, oh wow. And I mean, and I think Emily Henry probably is one of the greatest
[14:39]right. And I would read anything that she writes, but it's amazing to me how many actually
[14:44]costen seven year slip in the dead romantics that she wrote. I mean, are just beautiful. There's
[14:50]just yeah, it's yes, I mean, I really read in one space, you know, at this point in my life,
[14:55]it's like all I want to read. And it's my TBR list is so long. And I feel like I can't, I mean,
[15:01]the author is working, writing in that space. It's just, it's, it's really floored me to be like,
[15:06]wow, we're, you know, we're like living in a golden age of women's stories, you know, in a way
[15:11]that is they don't have to all be tragic. I think in the way that a lot of literature makes women.
[15:20]So it's yeah, so so many great books to read. Are you going to write another novel? I am. And
[15:26]actually, my next novel comes out next May. Oh my gosh, in 2020. Yes, in 2020. So it's called
[15:34]Yeah, it's all true. You know, my, I really adore my publisher with I'm with Amazon publishing as I
[15:39]know you are for your next book. And I'm with Montlake, they're in print. And they are very much
[15:44]on the train of like, well, once somebody likes an author, we want to get them their next book. So
[15:49]yeah. So my next book comes out quite quickly. Yeah. So it's so, you know, it's called alternate
[15:55]endings. And it's similar. We it's a, it's another New York woman who finds herself in Ireland for,
[16:01]for reasons. You know, so it's, it's another fun. You know, it's kind of the same vibes. But yeah,
[16:06]I'm hoping to write, I'm hoping to write many more. I mean, I have to find the way to balance
[16:12]books, UV and writing. But I just, it's so special to be able to escape into someone else's world.
[16:20]You know, and as, as I'm sure you feel now, I mean, it's, it's scary to put something out
[16:25]into the world because, you know, people who comment on books don't have quite as strong opinions
[16:30]as people do about fiction. As I'm learning, I, yeah, I said to my, you know, my editor the other
[16:36]day, it was like, just singer prepared. I was like, I'm a woman on TV, aging. Like what, what
[16:41]have I not heard? I was like, oh, okay, you know, but, but yeah, it's, it's fiction and the
[16:49]community around fiction. It's just so special. So I'm, I hope to write for a long time.
[16:55]I'm still trying to get over that you wrote a second novel and then it's already coming out.
[16:59]But that's amazing. You know, my editor tired. My editor's like, we should think about another
[17:04]novel. And I was like, this is, I've been waiting my whole life for this and yet
[17:09]like yet the charm of publishing. But you have, I mean, the things on your plate, you know,
[17:15]you have to find learning to say no is really great. You know, finding the things we're like,
[17:21]I don't have the capacity for this right now. So you know, your next novel will come when you're
[17:25]ready for it. Well, thank you. I can't wait to read this one. I have to send it to you. I feel like,
[17:31]yeah, I feel like maybe you'll like it with your, I don't know. It's, I would love it. I know I'm,
[17:36]I don't know. It's so impactful in the same, uh, I don't know. Now I'm like, maybe I'm my cover is wrong.
[17:42]Now I don't know. Whatever. I'm really thinking everything. Tell me more about the TV show,
[17:46]like how often do you do it? You were nominated or you won an Emmy, something I was nominated,
[17:51]you know, I never won anything. It's been really lovely. I've been nominated for so many things
[17:54]and I never went. So I still have things look forward to, I guess. But yeah, my show is called
[17:59]Public with Ali Rose and it airs on NYC life in the New York metro area. And it's a show all
[18:05]about the food creators, producers, chefs of New York. So my job of the last 10 years has really
[18:12]been to get to ask chefs all the questions that I would want to know. So I sort of feel like
[18:17]stupidly lucky that that's what I get to do all day. We used to do two seasons a year and
[18:22]since COVID, I basically, and the station has been so supportive and lovely. And I just was like,
[18:28]again, like so no, I was like, I do not have the capacity to do this twice a year. So we're
[18:33]now doing one season a year. So we just finished our 15th season and now next year we'll have our
[18:40]16th. But yeah, I mean, it's really, public television is amazing because you just kind of get
[18:44]to be nerdy. Like I get to talk, you know, it's like we can be like, let's talk about the difference
[18:48]between firm tofu and extra firm tofu. We're going to talk about that for seven minutes,
[18:54]expert who makes toast. I mean, like that. And I don't feel like food TV lets you do that.
[18:59]Anywhere else anymore, you know, it's all like, let's vote someone off the island. So I,
[19:03]yeah, I don't know how I've sort of get to keep doing this where I just get to
[19:08]nerdily talk to people about food. But yeah, it's, so that's, I feel very lucky because my,
[19:13]I get to go to school every day and interview chefs. And so it's, yeah, it really feeds,
[19:18]feeds into every part of my life because it's, and it's so New York, you know, I get to,
[19:23]I mean, chefs and people in food in New York are the most diverse, interesting group of people
[19:28]on the planet. So it's, you know, everybody who comes to New York to work in food in any capacity
[19:33]just has such passion for what they're doing. So, you know, to get to interview people all day is
[19:38]as you know, I mean, it's just like it's such a joy. It's such a joy. I have to introduce you to
[19:43]my husband's cousin, Robbie Felice has a bunch of restaurants. He's this up and coming.
[19:49]He's probably like 30, but now he has like four restaurants. One, it's in New Jersey, so I don't know
[19:53]if you venture over there. It's called Villagio. Anyway, it's amazing. He's, he's amazing. I'm gonna put you on the
[20:00]Yes, please. He's like tattooed, you know, rocks. You know, like, he's not, like, he's not that
[20:05]chef. Look, yeah. Anyway, so I've been like watching as he builds his business being like,
[20:11]oh, yeah, I know more about the restaurant industry because it's the hardest. I mean,
[20:17]everybody always says to me, like, oh my God, like, would you, you know, want to ever open a
[20:20]restaurant? Like, oh, the last thing I would do is open a restaurant. You know, like, I, it's,
[20:25]it's the hardest business. I mean, it's just the margins and the, yeah, so I have so much
[20:30]respect for chefs and yeah, people who open restaurants and people who open bookstores, they are my
[20:35]favorite people and I don't think I could ever do it. What's your, like, secret dream of something
[20:39]you would start? God, I mean, yeah, if I, I mean, the thing is, it's like, I, I love what you're doing
[20:45]but I worry that so many of those things would then ruin. It's like, I love being able to read and
[20:50]write and not have to, you know, if you have a restaurant, you sort of have to then pick favorites
[20:55]and do, yeah, with a bookstore. I mean, it's like, how do you decide, like, what to carry in your
[20:59]store and who to support and how to pick? So I don't know. It's someone says to me to say, oh,
[21:03]you're a writer, you should start reviewing romance books for some outlet. And I said, yeah,
[21:07]but then I, then it would be work, you know, as opposed to like the thing I find the greatest joy in.
[21:12]So I don't know. I mean, my, I kind of get to do, I'm doing the things I want to do, which
[21:18]feels totally insane to say out loud. And I get to, you know, I have three kids and I was a,
[21:25]I had a full, fun, fertility, bonanza to get to that. So, yeah, I'm kind of like living in this
[21:30]moment of like something's going to go wrong again, for sure. We've had a lot of difficult things.
[21:35]But yeah, in the moment, I'm like, okay, I have my books and I have a show and I'm just going to
[21:39]write it as long as it's like I did not. I did not in any way mean to imply you needed to add
[21:44]anything more to your plate or that you know, I just, oh my god, no. But it's always the question,
[21:50]right? It's like, what else, you know, what else is there? I mean, as you listen, like, as you are
[21:54]discovering, you know, you find one piece of an industry and then you say, well, this is also a
[21:58]special place to be in here. And they're all, you know, it's also interconnected that it's,
[22:03]it's always interesting to kind of think like where we're too next. My secret dream is opening a
[22:08]hotel. So I'll just leave it through that at the like a bed and breakfast tea hotel or like a big
[22:12]bookish, a very bookish boutique hotel. That's my dream. Where it's like all about books and reading.
[22:18]Sounds fun, right? I would hide there. Yeah, right. Yeah. I want like the library and beauty and the
[22:23]beast, you know, like, like, you know, where you're like going along that like ladder, you know,
[22:30]like just heaven. Yeah, that would go to that. By the way, like do that somewhere like outside of
[22:36]New York, you just like come and like pick out books and like sit, yep, spa. I mean, that, yeah,
[22:42]I'm thinking of something. I want to do it in LA so they could just like go to the bookstore and
[22:47]I don't know. This is my dream. But I don't know. I know people ask you this a lot. I'm sure and
[22:55]I hate being asked this, but I am curious. Like in terms of when you do what or how you do it all,
[23:02]you know, not that like what is, how do you answer that question or yes, what are what's a
[23:07]a hacker to that you have or I don't know. How do you deal with your life? The first answer
[23:13]is being not a jerk and acknowledging that I have a nanny. I mean, so that's, that's an undeniable
[23:19]thing. And if you look in like the, you know, in my cookbooks, especially I'm always like,
[23:23]thank you specifically to this person who I cannot live about. But I would say that the hack is
[23:29]to stop watching TV, which I know sounds kind of judgmental, but it's, it's kind of amazing to me.
[23:35]like I don't think most people realize how much time they spend. People are like,
[23:38]how do you read so many books every year? I'm like, oh, I just stopped watching television.
[23:42]So I am able to read and write and do all of these things because I don't spend four hours of
[23:48]my day binging a show that I don't like that much. And I think a lot of that came from
[23:54]the type of TV that I like, that I want like positive content that isn't dramatic or
[23:59]include murder is much harder to find. You know, comedy is much harder to find. So it was kind of
[24:06]easy for me to like get rid of television for my life. But I know that, I know that's not an answer
[24:10]for everyone because that people love television. And also it sounds a little gross and judgmental,
[24:15]but it's not meant that way. It's just that, that for me personally has been the way,
[24:20]people say, when did you find time to read to write a book and read so many books? It is that
[24:25]in the evenings when my kids are asleep and I am not doing anything. And you know, my husband
[24:31]works all day and then likes to veg out. And I was like, I can actually, this isn't how I want
[24:36]to spend my time. So I think figuring out the things that fill you up and then cutting out the
[24:41]things that you should be doing, the doom scrolling, the TV, yeah, you'd be amazed how many more
[24:46]hours there are in your day if you limit your screen time, which is hard. I mean, so it's hard to,
[24:53]it's easier to save and to do. But I don't know, once you get in the habit of reading and not
[24:57]watching, I'm going to show you feel this way. Once you're in the habit of reading, it becomes
[25:01]your, your entertainment. I don't need TV. Don't watch TV says the woman on TV.
[25:07]Only watch my show and then log off and read.
[25:14]wholesome cooking content and then read wholesome books. I got, you know, books I wrote.
[25:20]Yeah, just living the alley rules and the universe, I guess, you like food. And yeah,
[25:25]I don't know. It's, that is, it's really hard. But how do you do it all question? I mean,
[25:30]nobody does it all. I mean, I definitely feel like I'm, you know, my kids every single day,
[25:36]they tell me that I'm not, you know, I didn't spend enough individual time with this one and I
[25:41]didn't do this. And I, you know, forgot to order of a, you know, come scout uniform and I didn't
[25:48]bring, you know, the extra underwear to my daughter's preschool. But I mean, you don't do it
[25:53]all. You just kind of laugh and keep going and, and make time for yourself. I mean, I, that's,
[25:59]you know, I said, my son is eight. So he now has a lot of questions about like, why my husband
[26:02]and I want to go on dates together. I'm like, I promise when you're older, you will
[26:07]appreciate that you had parents who like each other and they time for each other. Like, that's
[26:10]important. You know, so I think it's, I think especially with kids, people get caught up in the
[26:14]like, oh my god, I should be doing this for them. And I think if you're happy and you have,
[26:20]you know, they'll be happier. So I don't know. Maybe that's, yeah, women goes on podcasts and say
[26:25]she's selfish and that's her advice. That has been a good place. I feel like we need to continue this
[26:30]over coffee or something. Anytime. Okay. Like I need, I need more like literary world friend. I'm,
[26:38]you know, I, I'm, I'm starting to be like with people in the book space. I'm like,
[26:41]be my friend. I'm like, I have so many food friends. And they're like, I don't know what you're
[26:44]doing with this stuff. Like, yeah. All right. Well, Ally, to be continued, but in the meantime,
[26:51]congratulations, recipe for second chances. Thank you for coming on. Okay. Thank you for having me.
[26:56]I'm with the rest of your interviews today. Okay. Hi, Ally. Thanks for listening to this episode
[27:04]of moms. Don't have time to read books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens and
[27:09]at moms. Don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my newsletter at Zibi Owens.com
[27:13]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[27:17]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. Heck, texture sound for the sound editing. And thank you to
[27:22]Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.