Terri Libenson, SURPRISINGLY SARAH
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[1:03]Terry Levinson is the author of Surprisingly Sarah, which is an Emmy and Friends series.
[1:08]And this episode is guest hosted alongside me by two of my kids ages eight and 10.
[1:15]Terry is the New York Times bestselling author of the popular illustrated middle grade
[1:18]series Emmy and Friends.
[1:20]She was previously the Rubin award winning cartoonist of the internationally syndicated daily
[1:24]comic strip that the pajama diaries, as well as an award winning humorous card writer for
[1:28]American Greetings.
[1:30]Terry lives in Cleveland, Ohio with her husband, Mike.
[1:32]She is a proud mom of two grown daughters and a spoiled poodle rosy.
[1:36]Welcome, Terry.
[1:37]Thank you so much for coming back on mom's.
[1:39]Don't have time to read books this time to discuss surprisingly Sarah, your latest book
[1:43]in the Emmy and Friends series.
[1:45]Thank you so much for having me out again, such a pleasure.
[1:48]Our special guest today are my two kids who are almost nine and 10 years old and the biggest
[1:54]fans of yours ever.
[1:55]We've been going into different bookstores and always saying like, do they have the
[1:59]Terry leave it since how many blah, blah, blah.
[2:01]So we got some big, big boosters here.
[2:04]Ooh, that's exciting.
[2:08]You guys might know more about my books than I do at this point because I forget false.
[2:12]So you can go in all the gaps that I missed before the kids ask questions.
[2:18]Can you tell listeners what surprisingly Sarah is about and how it fits into the whole
[2:22]series?
[2:23]Sure.
[2:24]So surprisingly Sarah, it's a lot like my other books in the sense that it stars two
[2:29]different kids.
[2:30]In this case, it's Sarah and her best friend Leo, but there's a little bit of a different
[2:35]format with this one.
[2:37]I presented it in kind of a what if type of scenario.
[2:42]So it takes you through scenario number one where the character Sarah, she decides to
[2:50]work up the courage to ask a boy that she has a crush on to the school dance.
[2:54]And the second what is scenario is what if instead of asking him, she completely
[3:01]chickens out.
[3:02]And so the book takes you through both story lines, one told from Sarah's viewpoint and
[3:07]the other told from her best friend Leo's viewpoint.
[3:10]And you see how each of the story lines plays out and how each of them get resolved.
[3:16]And by the way, this boy that she wants to ask the dance, it's no ordinary boy that
[3:21]it happens to be Leo's other really good friend named Ben.
[3:26]So we get into kind of a weird tricky little, little triangle situation and of course
[3:32]the characters have to kind of navigate through that and that tends to be a running theme
[3:36]throughout all these books, how when relationships, whether they're friendships or crushes
[3:42]or family situations, whenever they get kind of complicated or tricky, I like to have
[3:48]the characters really navigate each of the situations and see how they can resolve them
[3:53]and how they can come out on the other side.
[3:55]So it's actually a lot of very true to life stuff.
[3:58]And you illustrate all the books, all the books, yep, yes, question is no, yes, go ahead.
[4:03]What does he do real name?
[4:04]Is he's real name?
[4:05]I don't know.
[4:06]Really?
[4:07]So it could be anything you want, anything you want because I don't even know her real
[4:14]name.
[4:15]And it's funny, I did that on purpose.
[4:16]I don't want to know.
[4:17]Wow.
[4:18]Yeah.
[4:19]Yeah.
[4:20]Good.
[4:21]All right.
[4:22]So which is your favorite book of the one to your own?
[4:25]Ooh, that's a good question.
[4:26]Well, it's kind of like choosing favorite child.
[4:30]I can't choose that, right?
[4:32]Because all my children are my favorite children.
[4:34]It's the same with my books.
[4:35]I love all of them in different ways, but I could tell you which ones that I enjoyed writing
[4:40]the most.
[4:41]Definitely Sarah was one of them.
[4:44]There she is.
[4:46]Like some of the work pages in there.
[4:48]That one.
[4:49]Weirdly not even though it was a more complicated kind of format for me.
[4:54]It flowed out in me.
[4:55]I don't know what happened, but that was a really fun one to write.
[5:00]I love writing the first one in visible Emmy.
[5:03]And by the way, all the books can be read out of where there's no real order to them,
[5:07]but that was the first one I happened to write.
[5:10]And I love writing that, but I didn't know what I was doing at the time.
[5:15]I first sent my toes into this whole author thing.
[5:18]So even though I enjoyed writing it, it was, you know, came with a lot of self-doubt and
[5:22]not knowing if I could really write a book and thankfully, thankfully it came together.
[5:27]And probably my other really say, oh, there's some, actually, there were quite a few.
[5:31]I love writing Ruby and Rihanna.
[5:35]I think there were just two that I had a really hard time writing.
[5:38]That was the second one positively Izzy.
[5:41]And just Jamie.
[5:42]That one.
[5:44]That was from a personal experience, or I should say, my daughter came from my daughter's
[5:49]experience.
[5:50]It was, it was enough fun situation.
[5:52]It was an experience where she was excluded from her friend group.
[5:55]So yeah, that was, that was deeply personal to all of us.
[5:59]And she gave me permission to write about it years later.
[6:03]And she's absolutely fine now and has a lot of friends.
[6:05]How old does she know?
[6:06]Oh, she's, she's 23.
[6:08]Oh.
[6:10]Yeah.
[6:11]It was truly Tyler, you had trouble writing.
[6:13]Clearly Tyler and positively Izzy.
[6:15]Truly Tyler was my pandemic book.
[6:18]And I was having, you know, I think everyone was having a hard time then.
[6:23]And also it was the first time I was writing from the perspective of a boy.
[6:27]And I think I overthought it way too much, right?
[6:32]Yeah, definitely.
[6:33]And once I stopped overthinking it, it was great.
[6:37]I was actually my favorite book of the series.
[6:39]I think.
[6:40]Really?
[6:41]I'm so glad to hear that.
[6:42]It was also the first book I read.
[6:44]My favorite was just Jamie.
[6:45]Just Jamie.
[6:46]Yeah.
[6:47]Well, you know, I'm, I'm happy to hear that about both of them.
[6:52]One of them was just so personal and the other was just really hard one.
[6:56]So I appreciate that.
[6:59]So for your next book, is it going to be about Dev?
[7:04]Oh, I can't tell you who it's going to be about.
[7:07]He goes ahead.
[7:09]I can give you one hand.
[7:11]So I wish I could.
[7:11]I actually, I actually went to see if I could, if I could divulge anything about it.
[7:17]And they wouldn't really let me.
[7:19]My publisher wouldn't really let me.
[7:20]What color are you going to need to cover?
[7:23]OK, I could give you a couple of hands.
[7:25]So the cover is going to be purple.
[7:28]It's a little different.
[7:29]Little different than the other purple.
[7:30]Yeah, it's going to be more like violet.
[7:32]So it's going to be great.
[7:34]And the two characters, it's going to be a boy and a girl again.
[7:40]So that's what that all I could say.
[7:41]But I think I'll be revealing the cover in the next few months.
[7:46]So it should be coming out pretty soon.
[7:48]OK, I have to wait when it's the book coming out.
[7:50]Can we ask?
[7:50]No, yeah.
[7:51]When is the book coming out?
[7:52]Yeah, sure.
[7:54]It's going to come out of May.
[7:56]So it's usually the first, the first Tuesday of May.
[7:59]So once a year, each book comes out.
[8:01]And so far, yeah, I love doing them.
[8:04]So I know I'm going to have at least, at least,
[8:07]books eight and nine, hopefully more.
[8:10]So yeah.
[8:11]How do I get that?
[8:13]Yes, OK.
[8:14]So are you going to like what happens when you run out
[8:18]of people to write with?
[8:21]I guess I have to make up new people.
[8:23]That's what I told you.
[8:26]I know.
[8:27]I do get a lot of requests for Dev, by the way.
[8:30]I get a lot of requests for Dev, for Joe, to Alango,
[8:35]and for Celia.
[8:38]So the two least favorite people of all the other characters.
[8:45]I get the most requests for Dev.
[8:47]And Dev, that's a nice point.
[8:49]So yeah.
[8:50]Yes.
[8:52]Wait, oh, sorry.
[8:53]And secondary characters or main characters,
[8:56]the secondary characters and other books?
[8:59]Yes.
[8:59]That happens quite a bit.
[9:02]But I think that happened, especially in my first few books,
[9:06]where I was sort of rotate the characters.
[9:09]So first, there was Emmy.
[9:11]And then I kind of rotated her best friend, Brianna,
[9:15]into the forefront.
[9:16]And then I think they kind of floated in the background
[9:20]and just Jamie.
[9:21]So they were sort of side characters there.
[9:24]Oh, that's, yeah.
[9:25]So that question?
[9:26]You guys have great questions.
[9:27]What's the process like when you start the book?
[9:31]How do you think of the issues in the book?
[9:33]That's what's the process.
[9:35]Like when you think of a new story,
[9:37]how do you come up with all the ideas?
[9:39]And the one you said was from personal experience,
[9:41]where'd you come up with the other ones?
[9:43]And what does the whole process look like when you attack a book?
[9:46]Oh, boy.
[9:48]It's a lot, yeah.
[9:50]So yeah, some of it's come from personal experience.
[9:54]Like I said, just Jamie was definitely,
[9:57]it was loosely based off of my daughter's experience,
[9:59]but.
[10:00]definitely a lot of parallels there.
[10:01]Becoming Brianna was all about a girl having a butte mitzvah,
[10:04]which is something that is very close to my own family
[10:08]as we happen to be a Jewish family.
[10:10]So I drew a lot of experience from there.
[10:12]And that's just, you know, just right with a lot of drama
[10:17]and French hip issues and things like that
[10:19]as well as trying to find yourself.
[10:21]Oh yes, you have a question.
[10:23]I have two.
[10:24]She was answering my question.
[10:26]Are these totally different or are they related?
[10:27]They related to her books.
[10:29]Are they related to what she's talking about?
[10:31]No?
[10:31]Okay, let her just finish talking about the process.
[10:33]Then you ask those two questions.
[10:34]Bye-bye.
[10:35]Okay, sure, sure.
[10:36]We'll get back to them.
[10:38]So yeah, so others, it's funny.
[10:40]I think it's got a lot of sort of been making it up more stories
[10:44]because I'm getting, because my kids are a lot older
[10:47]and I'm drawing less on their experiences.
[10:49]It tends to be more about what I've read or what,
[10:53]sometimes what I can park and back on with my own experiences.
[10:56]But a lot of it is just kind of for my imagination,
[11:01]sort of combined with just my own lived experiences.
[11:06]The process, so boy, the short version of the process.
[11:11]Yeah, it'll be really, this will be in a nutshell.
[11:14]So I just type out everything in a word doc
[11:19]and I don't draw anything right away
[11:22]because I've learned that the story has to change a lot.
[11:25]Sometimes I have to rewrite it from scratch,
[11:27]sometimes many times.
[11:29]So if I have art in there too, the art has to be changed.
[11:31]So it's just a lot more work.
[11:33]So I just sort of indicate where the art's gonna go
[11:36]and what it's gonna be just in red type.
[11:39]So anywhere you see red type, that's artwork.
[11:42]And then once all that's approved,
[11:44]I start with little loose sketches to some pencil
[11:48]and I just love them right into my type story
[11:51]and that way we can see how the story and art flow together
[11:55]and then once that's all approved,
[11:56]I tackle all the final art at once.
[11:59]That takes a long time.
[12:00]That takes about maybe about 45 months or so
[12:03]and all of a sudden in a year,
[12:05]this all has to be done in a year.
[12:07]So not a lot of time for outside projects, unfortunately,
[12:10]but good thing I love doing these.
[12:12]Wow, that's amazing.
[12:14]Yeah.
[12:15]Yes, all right.
[12:16]So I have two questions.
[12:18]First one, so you make one every year.
[12:21]Every year.
[12:22]Well, you started seven years ago.
[12:24]About seven, well, even before that,
[12:27]because my first book took a long time,
[12:29]even though it's the thinnest book.
[12:32]Like I said, I didn't really know what I was doing
[12:34]and I didn't have a lot of time.
[12:35]I was actually writing a comic strip back then
[12:39]for newspapers and that had a daily deadline.
[12:43]I had to, that was a full-time job and of itself.
[12:46]So I was just writing any time I could.
[12:50]So weekends, nights, whenever I could.
[12:53]So it took me a long time to write that one.
[12:55]This is stuff.
[12:56]Yeah, yeah.
[12:57]And another question that means they were wondering
[12:59]is that maybe when you run out of characters,
[13:04]you took like to write, you couldn't maybe
[13:08]like do their books again that they're an eighth grade.
[13:10]Instead, I was saying it would be great.
[13:13]That's a great idea.
[13:15]Yeah, yeah.
[13:16]Why not, right?
[13:18]Yeah, they don't have to stay in seventh grade forever.
[13:21]I do have one character that's an eighth grade.
[13:23]So she's a little bit older.
[13:25]So it did.
[13:26]No, no, it's a Maroobie sister.
[13:29]Oh yeah, Mia.
[13:31]Oh yeah, yep, yep, yep, you got it.
[13:34]Is this going to be a TV series or an animated show?
[13:38]Is it? And I don't know.
[13:40]Oh, no, it's not.
[13:41]I wish they're pedaling it.
[13:43]But yeah, so far, not yet.
[13:47]Okay.
[13:48]Yeah, it seems such a like a natural fit for an animated show.
[13:53]I know, that would be wonderful, especially for like a series.
[13:57]Yeah.
[13:57]You're so many characters and there's so many situations.
[14:00]So yeah, I think it could be better as a movie.
[14:04]You think?
[14:04]Okay.
[14:05]I'm with you.
[14:09]You guys have more questions?
[14:11]More questions, guys?
[14:12]How do you get the idea for like their names in the first book?
[14:17]Oh, it's a great question.
[14:19]So the first book, I knew I wanted the word of visible in it.
[14:25]And I just wanted a name, a girl's name that would flow
[14:30]really well with invisible.
[14:31]And that's where that's when I thought of Emmy.
[14:34]And the name doesn't have any real significance for me,
[14:37]although I've grown to really love it, of course.
[14:39]But that's how that came about.
[14:41]Ever since it's been really hard to figure out titles
[14:43]because I've got all these predetermined names for characters.
[14:48]And then when I switch them to become main characters,
[14:51]I've got to figure out a good adjective to go with it.
[14:54]And it gets really, really tricky sometimes
[14:57]because it also has to pertain to the story, too.
[15:00]OK, why in the first two books, there
[15:03]are names aren't the same letter.
[15:05]And but the other one's going from just
[15:09]book three to book seven are.
[15:12]Yeah, that's a good question, too.
[15:14]So all the ones that have the same letters,
[15:17]do you know what that writing device is called?
[15:21]You guys know what that is.
[15:22]When the words start with the same letters,
[15:24]they make the same sounds at the beginning of a word.
[15:27]Grandma, wait for the next one of them.
[15:29]I am knew the word itself.
[15:30]It starts with A.
[15:32]A two, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a.
[15:40]A iteration.
[15:41]A literary.
[15:42]A literature.
[15:43]And you learned about that.
[15:44]A literature.
[15:45]You learned about it.
[15:46]Yeah.
[15:46]You learned about it and he forgot.
[15:48]Yeah.
[15:51]Well, I'm going to tell you a little secret.
[15:52]I'm actually not a huge fan of a literation.
[15:55]And I didn't really want my title to use moderation.
[15:59]But because I was having such a hard time finding catchy names,
[16:05]their titles after the first two books,
[16:08]I just gave in, like this, it just flows so much better if I use a
[16:12]iteration. So once just Jamie happened, it all just, it was a
[16:16]domino effect from there. Do you start with a specific word
[16:19]count? How, how many kind of summer longer than others? Like,
[16:22]what is the word count range that you do for the books?
[16:25]No, I should. I really, really should because it's, it's, they
[16:29]keep getting longer and longer every year. And I keep trying to
[16:33]rain myself in. And I don't know what happens, but the
[16:37]books end up just getting longer. I just love writing them so
[16:40]much. I just, I just keep going and going. So there is no real
[16:44]word count. And because it's so illustration heavy, it's
[16:49]really hard to have a word count because a lot of, a lot of the
[16:52]words are actually in the illustrations. So I can't even tell
[16:55]you how many words are in each book. I just know that they keep
[16:58]getting longer and longer. I think, actually, I think the
[17:03]longest one may have been Tyler. I'm not sure. Let me
[17:07]compare it. Yep, it's actually longer than Sarah. What are
[17:11]all your little sticky notes? Oh, those are just references
[17:16]because right now I'm working on the eighth book. And I'm
[17:18]doing all the artwork for it. And so I'll actually go back
[17:22]into like my other books. And I'll, I'll earmark them for
[17:26]like if I need to reference a certain character and how they
[17:29]look or maybe how it looks that someone's holding a phone,
[17:33]I can sort of go back and check. So it's all just my personal
[17:37]little, little bookmarks there. Amazing. Another question?
[17:43]I know. I don't think so. Do you have another question?
[17:45]How did you choose the colors? Oh, I have a great art team
[17:51]behind me at my publishers. And oftentimes, sometimes I'll
[17:54]suggest the color and sometimes they will. And then we kind of
[17:57]work together to get the perfect orange or green or
[18:03]blue or pink. And they're really, really good at it. So I
[18:08]probably couldn't do it myself. But they're wonderful. I do, I
[18:12]do illustrate the covers, all the covers. But they're the ones
[18:16]who really come up with the gorgeous, the gorgeous color.
[18:20]What's something that we would be surprised to learn about you?
[18:23]Oh boy. Oh my gosh. Let's see. You might be surprised to learn
[18:29]that I'm half-churkish. Pretty big thing. I just have a really big
[18:34]thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I love it because it's just so unusual.
[18:39]And I love to really delve into that side of my family history. And
[18:43]I love the food that comes with it. And let's see. I'm trying to
[18:49]think of anything else. I'm usually such an open book that
[18:53]doesn't even surprise myself. If you had to pick an
[18:56]adjective for blank Terry, what would it be?
[19:02]You know what? Funny Terry. Maybe that's something that's kind of surprising
[19:06]because people who I grew up with probably wouldn't
[19:09]necessarily give me that tag. But I've learned over many, many decades
[19:14]that I love humor. I really appreciate it. And I'm actually
[19:19]kind of funny. What do I want to be? Well, that's a huge surprise.
[19:24]You don't do funny at all. Sometimes when I don't mean to be funny,
[19:29]I'm funny. I love them. How did you decide the little
[19:34]things here for each of the icons on the spines? Yeah.
[19:37]Well, icons. I'm thinking that was my publisher's idea originally
[19:43]to have like the recognizable character on the spine of the book.
[19:48]And so now we just know every, for every book,
[19:51]I know to do a little, little tiny illustration for the spine of each cover.
[19:56]And that just makes them kind of recognizable.
[19:59]And stand.
[20:00]Yeah, at the same time. Do you think about doing a different series next or are you doing?
[20:11]Oh, gosh. Um, it's funny. I would, I would love to do other all kinds of other projects. I haven't thought about another series. I've thought about like maybe trying my hand up picture books, things like that.
[20:25]I might be able to squeeze in while I do this series. I haven't thought about the end of this series yet because I'm still, I'm still having so much fun doing this. So instead, I'm trying to think of like smaller projects that I can do in between. I've started so many and just haven't had time to finish.
[20:43]How are you going to make a book about Maya and Grace? Oh, I love that idea. Well, my I'm just Jamie, but she can I could always bring her back again.
[20:54]Sure. I do think about Grace a little bit too. There's so many characters I want to cover. And I think that's why I haven't really thought about another series at this point because I just think all these characters have so much potential if they haven't been developed already. And so yeah.
[21:12]So I ran out of characters and ideas. Have you ever considered doing not like a Disney World type thing, but some sort of pop up experiential thing where you cast all the characters and people can come in and meet them.
[21:27]Oh, wow. I've never thought of that. I think that's a wonderful idea.
[21:32]You could get like little tickets and you could do a little performance maybe and you could have, you know, their Instagram type backgrounds and little sayings and people could write their own captions and maybe they could all be turned into characters with like some app or something while you're there.
[21:52]name themselves like, you know, zany zippy or something. Yeah, yeah, we have to we have done the sort of make your own label. Yeah, like a book events, but no, I love that idea. I'll definitely take note. Thank you.
[22:08]I kind of like that and uniquely you. You take a quiz on either your Brianna and me Joe or Jamie. Oh, that's true. That's true. And I, I wrote that a lot of time ago and I should do a follow up just to that book because there's so many new characters.
[22:25]Why wasn't is he in uniquely you and why isn't is he in any of the other books. Oh, well, is he's kind of a unique character because I hate to sort of give this away because it's sort of a spoiler, but, but she's she's sort of a character from the past.
[22:46]She, you know, you don't know that and it will be end. No, but since you guys read the books, it's okay, but, but so I don't think of her sort as as much of the contemporary as the other characters are of each other. Does that make sense? Yeah, but she was in the same Bri is Brianna because they did the talent show. You're right. Although, if you remember from the book, it took place in the past.
[23:11]And though it seems like it's the same talent show. It's really not. Oh, it's not. Oh, so is he's like a completely different timeline. Oh, I know it's amazing.
[23:25]But isn't so they were actually in sixth grade.
[23:29]They were both in seventh grade, but they do you know, is these relationships to Brianna.
[23:34]I forget of me in the book.
[23:37]Yeah, you kind of have to go read the book.
[23:40]You have to read the book again, you guys.
[23:42]The book.
[23:43]Is it at the end when they say happy birthday is he?
[23:46]Mm hmm.
[23:47]Mm hmm.
[23:48]Where's I don't think we are.
[23:50]All right, we're going to do a deep dive.
[23:53]Hey.
[23:54]No, because Brianna's mom's name is also is he.
[23:57]Right.
[24:02]I how did I just figure that out?
[24:06]That was that was a hard one.
[24:08]A lot of people had questions with that.
[24:10]That one wasn't as obvious.
[24:14]That was time to alone over here.
[24:16]Now you have to you have to go back and read the whole thing again.
[24:19]You'll see.
[24:20]That was a flash wrapped one.
[24:23]Is these well, Brianna's mom was a kid.
[24:26]Mm hmm.
[24:27]That's why they never met.
[24:29]And also that's why Brianna's mom really wanted her to do lots of plays.
[24:36]Yeah.
[24:37]Maybe.
[24:38]Yeah.
[24:39]They're smart.
[24:40]That was that was a tough one.
[24:43]That was that was the tough twist ending and I would get a lot of letters about that.
[24:49]Yeah.
[24:50]I like that.
[24:51]I like that plot twist in remarkably.
[24:53]Thank you.
[24:54]Don't give it all away.
[24:55]Oh, my God.
[24:57]These are her sisters.
[24:58]These are her sisters.
[25:00]No, these are her sisters.
[25:02]That's her mother.
[25:03]This is that.
[25:04]No, that's this is actually.
[25:06]Yeah.
[25:07]Danny.
[25:08]I love I love witnessing this.
[25:10]This is great.
[25:11]I love being there while while the aha moment takes place.
[25:17]Who knew live on mom's don't have time to read books.
[25:21]Kids catch up to the plot twist.
[25:24]Do you have any parting words for Terry?
[25:26]Thank you.
[25:27]Thank you.
[25:28]Amazing series.
[25:29]Thank you guys.
[25:30]You were just the best interviewers.
[25:32]I love it.
[25:33]And thank you for telling us a lot that is you think.
[25:36]You got it.
[25:37]I want to see them just go off and start.
[25:40]Yeah.
[25:41]You both have to go read this now and you can write your homework about that chapter.
[25:44]right.
[25:45]Thank you for the patience.
[25:46]You're exhibiting here with the kids.
[25:48]This is the best.
[25:49]I love it.
[25:50]Thank you really for the many hours of time.
[25:53]They've spent reading your books.
[25:55]So I can interview people like you.
[26:00]Really appreciate it.
[26:02]All right.
[26:03]Say goodbye guys.
[26:04]Bye.
[26:05]Bye guys.
[26:06]Say goodbye.
[26:07]Bye.
[26:08]See you.
[26:09]Bye.
[26:10]Bye.
[26:11]Bye.
[26:12]This episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[26:15]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[26:18]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[26:20]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club
[26:24]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[26:27]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[26:31]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.