Cindy Chupack, WE WAITED FOR YOU: Now We're a Family
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30 minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
[0:15]I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction
[0:20]and memoir.
[0:21]Our books are already out now.
[0:23]You can check it out on zippybooks.com.
[0:26]And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag where we have lots of wonderful essays and lifestyle
[0:31]features.
[0:32]That's at zippymag.com.
[0:33]We have classes, it's a B-Classist.com.
[0:36]And I recently opened a book store in LA called Zippy's bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue
[0:43]at 11th Street in San Monica.
[0:45]I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings.
[0:49]But this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018.
[0:54]And no matter what I do, this is basically my favorite thing.
[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Cindy Schupack is the author of We Weighted for You, Now or a Family.
[1:07]But so much more than this because I have been following Cindy for many, many, many years.
[1:12]Here's more about her.
[1:13]A prolific storyteller across many mediums.
[1:15]Cindy Schupack is best known for her work as a writer producer of shows including sex and
[1:20]the city, modern family, everybody loves Raymond, better things, and most recently,
[1:25]Fleischman is in trouble.
[1:26]We waited for you.
[1:27]Now we're a family is her first picture book, but she has authored two comic memoirs The
[1:32]New York Times bestseller, The Between Boyfriend's Book, a collection of cautiously hopeful
[1:36]essays, which by the way is in my bookshelf.
[1:39]And I have had for almost 20 years since it came out and loved it.
[1:44]And also the longest date, life as a wife born in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Cindy received a journalism
[1:49]degree from Northwestern University, and now lives in Marina Del Rey, California with her 12-year-old
[1:53]daughter, Olivia, and they're ridiculously cute, Vepi Millie.
[1:57]Welcome Cindy.
[1:58]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:59]Don't have time to read books to discuss all of your books.
[2:03]You were just a TV bookshop for your new children's book.
[2:06]I've been like a lifelong fan of between boyfriends now, the longest date, life as a wife.
[2:10]I'm just a fan across the board.
[2:13]So thanks for coming on.
[2:14]Thank you for having me.
[2:15]You've had so many of my favorite authors.
[2:17]I feel excited to be in the company of all of them.
[2:20]Well, your Between Boyfriend's book has literally moved with me from whenever it came
[2:26]out.
[2:27]I've been through divorce and remarriage and this book just keeps coming with me no matter
[2:32]what.
[2:33]So it's like a little talisman.
[2:34]Thank you.
[2:35]I need a way to display like a book shelf of audiobooks because I'm always driving in a
[2:39]middle.
[2:40]Listen to a ton.
[2:41]And I especially love ones read by the author, but I've been listening to Samantha
[2:44]Erby's latest one.
[2:45]I love it.
[2:46]And I'm so obsessed with her and she's working on and just like that with some friends
[2:49]of mine.
[2:50]Yes, that's right.
[2:51]That's right.
[2:52]I'm obsessed with her.
[2:54]And then I guess she said that she had my Between Boyfriend's book, which is happy.
[2:59]Because the authors that I read when I was just starting out like Cynthia Heimle and
[3:04]Merle Marco, Nora Efron, I mean, that wrote essays about relationships that inspired
[3:11]me.
[3:12]And it just exciting to me like the sort of continuum because I feel like Samantha's
[3:15]work now is inspiring me back, but it's might be part of that.
[3:18]Great.
[3:19]That's so great.
[3:20]Well, start out by talking a little bit about your children's book, because I know your
[3:24]children's book is your most recent and love to the whole story and that, of course,
[3:28]is sort of the update and where you are with your own life as we followed you through
[3:33]all of your essay writing and career and everything.
[3:35]So maybe start there and we can work backwards a little bit.
[3:38]Okay.
[3:39]We waited for you was a children's book.
[3:40]I wrote a, it actually, children's book production takes so long.
[3:45]I had no idea.
[3:46]And I think mine took longer than the usual, but I wrote it because when I was first
[3:51]I adopted Olivia and the longest state life as a wife is very much about being married
[3:56]later in life and wanting to have a child, but just having to go through all the things
[4:01]that they told us we would have to go through, but you're not, you're like, la la.
[4:05]So all the fertility stuff and then trying egg donor and then finally adoption.
[4:11]And it was such a long and hard process.
[4:14]And I wrote that, but the longest state life is the wife because I felt like there was
[4:18]nothing out there that was sort of honest, but funny about that whole process and I really
[4:23]could have used that.
[4:25]And it also, I think puts, you know, you have friends who are pregnant, who are having
[4:29]babies, some of my friends who are having trouble really had a trouble with that.
[4:33]I felt like I'm going to just be happy for everyone.
[4:36]It's not a zero-sum game, but it's hard when you're waiting.
[4:40]And so it took like five or six years to have her.
[4:42]And then I realized that there's a little bit of a guilt that you try to other things
[4:48]first once you do have your child, you know, you don't really talk about that because
[4:51]you don't want to say like, you know, we tried for years to have a biological child
[4:54]because I, of course, love my daughter, Olivia wouldn't want any other child.
[4:58]But I did feel like there was sort of a weird empty space for parents who'd been through
[5:02]that.
[5:03]When you finally have your child, you want to be able to express like, oh my gosh, we
[5:07]waited for you for so long, like we went through so much to get you and we move mountains.
[5:12]And so it's kind of about that.
[5:14]It's celebrating a child who comes into a family no matter how for all different kinds
[5:19]of families, whether the child's adopted or a parents or a single parents or, you know,
[5:25]just the process of like what it meant to get this child.
[5:28]And so I want to write that.
[5:30]And part of why I wanted to write it was I was at her preschool and there was a tradition
[5:35]where on a child's birthday, you took a book from the library and you read it to them
[5:39]in front of the class.
[5:40]And we picked one like the day you were born or something and it was all like, you were
[5:44]in my tummy and it didn't have anything to do with her.
[5:48]And I felt like I'm reading in front of these kids.
[5:50]I don't know exactly how this is.
[5:53]So I was saying there should be a book like that.
[5:55]And that's there are some about adoption like Jamie Lee Curtis has great with that.
[6:00]But there's nothing that kind of covers a spectrum of however a child came to you, whether
[6:05]by, you know, in your tummy or because it's all the same once you have the child.
[6:09]So just a little rhyming owed to that journey and to realize they, you know, we're worth
[6:15]waiting for.
[6:16]So beautiful.
[6:17]And it took me, I mean, I won't go into my own journey here.
[6:21]But a very long time to have my third kid, I had twins and then we had this big, big gap.
[6:26]So I always try to tell her, you know, like you just, this is just the way it was supposed
[6:29]to be like right when we got up like there you came, we were waiting for you, we were ready
[6:33]to come.
[6:35]Kind of like change who was in charge, you know, like these kids just waiting to find
[6:39]us and it has nothing to do with us and we're just hanging out over here.
[6:43]So you know, the right kid, the right time, yeah.
[6:47]And I like the idea.
[6:48]There's a few illustrations in here.
[6:50]They're like families waiting for another child because the new parents point to that same
[6:53]thing.
[6:54]And it's just as hard like when you really want another child and have to wait while your
[6:58]book is beautiful.
[6:59]The illustrations are beautiful.
[7:00]The whole message.
[7:01]Oh my gosh.
[7:02]You say it took forever to come out or the process was slow.
[7:05]So when did you first write it and like how long until now, like what happened in between?
[7:10]She turned into a tween, it's like, I mean, she's still really adorable, loving and excited
[7:15]about this book.
[7:16]She came with me to your bookstore for the beginning.
[7:18]Yeah.
[7:19]Yeah.
[7:20]Yeah.
[7:21]Yeah.
[7:22]She likes being part of this story of this book.
[7:23]But she was, I mean, I think she was young enough to still be reading picture books
[7:26]when I wrote it and that just the process of it actually was some of the source books
[7:31]liked it pretty early on.
[7:32]But then it just took a long time to get an illustrator because they have like 18 months
[7:36]and if they're booked up and then somebody fell through and then like, and since I do
[7:40]film and TV, you know, I just felt like, you know, lots of things can happen in a couple
[7:45]of years.
[7:46]And you can get a lot of people and make all things.
[7:49]And even though I love this story, like it came pretty fast.
[7:52]It's not a whole lot of text and it's kind of a bottom.
[7:55]So I felt like, okay, I wrote it.
[7:56]Someone can just draw something and let's get this out there.
[8:00]But it's a long process and I've now learned kind of how they work with illustrators
[8:04]and authors is, you know, you're on a separate track.
[8:07]So I didn't talk to the illustrator during only after and they do that to really respect
[8:14]the illustrator's process as well as the authors.
[8:16]You're separately they're working with you giving you notes.
[8:18]They have sort of a, you know, a vision for it.
[8:20]So unless you come in with an illustrator, I think that's kind of typical and respectful
[8:25]to let the illustrator do their thing to add to your book.
[8:28]So one plus one equals three, but I finally got you to know we're afterward Emily Hamilton
[8:32]and I really love her.
[8:33]And it was fun to hear how she responded to the text when she first got it and how I thought
[8:37]about her.
[8:38]That's me.
[8:39]I actually read a children's book, but I've never even met my illustrator.
[8:42]Right.
[8:43]Yeah.
[8:44]She seems, I've been around Zoom.
[8:45]She seems lovely.
[8:46]Yeah.
[8:47]She's in England.
[8:48]I know it's a strange process that you're not collaborating, but maybe people who don't
[8:52]collaborate for a living, like I feel like maybe that would be harder because maybe
[8:56]some authors would be very precious.
[8:57]Yeah.
[8:58]Actually, maybe there's a reason why they don't let everybody there is.
[9:01]I know.
[9:02]I haven't on my website of CindyChupack.net, but there was a Zoom I did with the illustrator
[9:08]and also a children's book agent who really explained that, you know, that it's a very
[9:12]respectful process and that's why so that you don't, you know, influence what they're
[9:18]doing.
[9:19]Amazing.
[9:20]Sorry.
[9:21]I didn't watch that.
[9:23]Well, let's talk about the longest date life as a wife because you start out in such a,
[9:28]I mean, you're so funny about everything that even though you can tell maybe it was sad
[9:32]at the time or maybe it wasn't, I don't know, but the way you write about everything
[9:35]is just hilarious.
[9:38]So your first marriage, your husband ended up being gay and then having another family
[9:43]and you have this hilarious essay about getting a get, which I'm Jewish when through
[9:47]divorce.
[9:48]I get it.
[9:49]I get it.
[9:50]I get the get chapter, but you write about all of that and all your life phases and falling
[9:55]in love with the guy who you weren't supposed to fall in love with and showing us time.
[10:00]I mean, again, why?
[10:01]And then being able to highlight even great things about him,
[10:05]even though you're constantly running into someone
[10:08]he had to three some other things like that, somebody.
[10:11]Don't happen there in the story of a,
[10:13]because we used to say like, it was always like,
[10:16]is there going to be someone at this wedding you slept with?
[10:19]And one time he said, well, the bride doesn't count.
[10:21]Yes.
[10:22]I love that even on this really,
[10:29]you start off on such equal footing and you're just,
[10:32]well, not, I mean, maybe not even equal,
[10:34]but when you have him over and you're like,
[10:35]well, I have a really nice house.
[10:37]And he's like, I have a nice place too.
[10:39]And then he's something like he said,
[10:41]I'm worried about leaving you and you were like,
[10:45]well, I could be the one who's leaving you.
[10:47]I love the confidence and sort of where you meet in life.
[10:51]And anyway, tell me a little more about writing this book
[10:54]and how you feel about it now, given everything.
[10:57]I know it's interesting because we're divorced now.
[10:59]and I feel like all the stories were a little better.
[11:02]They ended, you know, but still we love each other
[11:05]and now we're divorced.
[11:06]I was in every relationship that goes wrong.
[11:09]You should end up with a child from it
[11:11]because of course I'm like happy that we were married
[11:13]because I got Olivia from it and all the experiences
[11:16]and, you know, but you can't say that
[11:18]about every relationship you have.
[11:20]I got some good musical, but anyway,
[11:23]how I feel about it.
[11:24]I still stand by like, I think when I wrote it,
[11:27]I kind of said there was something in the intro.
[11:29]I think where he said this is gonna be kind of ironic
[11:31]if we don't stay together and I was,
[11:33]if you talk about how great our relationship is.
[11:36]And I said, it's not gonna be about how great our relationship
[11:39]is because I really wanted to show the hard things
[11:42]about being together and that whole opposite's attract.
[11:45]I'm not sure that is a formula for success as you get older.
[11:51]But anyway, I really wanted to write about marriage
[11:53]the way that we wrote about dating on sex in the city
[11:55]and be just as open and same attitude about writing
[11:59]about infertility, you know,
[12:01]because I feel like people kind of close ranks
[12:03]when they get married.
[12:04]It's like no matter how much you used to tell the joke
[12:06]about your boyfriends and your hardships,
[12:08]like you're married now, you can't.
[12:10]It's, you know, you're not supposed to talk.
[12:12]I guess I like writing about things
[12:13]you're not supposed to talk about.
[12:15]So I wanted to write about the different, you know,
[12:17]the hardships you have sometimes like if the woman
[12:19]makes more money or if it's habits you don't like
[12:22]or the X's and also what we went through,
[12:25]the fertility stuff, which actually did bring us
[12:28]closer together.
[12:29]I know it breaks up couples, but that is not,
[12:31]that's not what Bruce was talking about.
[12:33]But he just, you know, he wanted to adopt from Africa
[12:37]and I wanted to adopt from China one way.
[12:39]Let me just, we're in different breakout groups
[12:42]at the sessions and then we finally decided to adopt
[12:45]domestically, but it was a lot of negotiation
[12:48]and you're talking about a child.
[12:50]And then other people have opinions too.
[12:52]Like, you know, if there's been a giant,
[12:55]you know, humanitarian problem and Haiti,
[12:57]you should adopt from there and like all the sudden
[12:58]everyone's got ideas that were,
[13:00]it's like you're buying a car or something.
[13:04]So it was, I wanted to just be able to write about all that.
[13:07]And my first book, The Between Boyfriend's Book,
[13:09]came after I had a column in glamour called Dating Dictionary
[13:13]where I had like, punny little terms for each stage.
[13:16]And the editor I worked with was great about helping me
[13:19]kind of figure out to start from breakup to your next boyfriend.
[13:23]So I had a lot of those essays beforehand.
[13:26]And then once we came up with that structure,
[13:29]it kind of became clear,
[13:30]okay, I need more essays in here for during the breakup
[13:33]or while you're dating or when you're recovering.
[13:35]So that was a really fun book.
[13:36]And that's kind of how I've written my books of essays
[13:39]is just in little bite-sized pieces.
[13:41]A chapter can be about something,
[13:43]but they don't all have to become, you know,
[13:45]a giant opus on your life.
[13:48]And that one, it still seems very beloved by people,
[13:51]like you said, and I'm really proud of it.
[13:53]But I felt like the long estate went a little deeper
[13:55]and did try to make more of a linear narrative
[13:58]about the process of like waiting to have a child
[14:01]and getting married later in life
[14:03]and that what that presents.
[14:04]Yes, no, it was great.
[14:06]And I'm so glad.
[14:08]It's nice when, as a reader,
[14:09]you can go through all these things,
[14:11]like then we can go through it together,
[14:13]essentially, even though we don't know each other
[14:15]or now we know each other.
[14:16]But I have all these authors who I'm like,
[14:18]okay, they just went through that.
[14:19]And now I'm gonna go through that.
[14:21]And it's like a guide post through life, so to speak.
[14:24]Yeah.
[14:25]And sometimes you write about something,
[14:26]like I actually wrote a movie that is sort of slowly
[14:30]coming true.
[14:31]I know when I was working on sex in the city
[14:32]and we wrote about Charlotte's infertility problems.
[14:34]I hadn't gone through it yet.
[14:35]Oh, wow.
[14:36]And then looking back at it,
[14:38]it was like, yeah, that was pretty fun.
[14:40]And we none of us had gone through with that.
[14:42]Yeah, when we were writing about,
[14:43]but we knew people who were going through it.
[14:45]But yeah, there's things you write about that happened.
[14:48]Yeah, it's interesting.
[14:49]It does feel like you're going through it with people.
[14:51]And I like that these books can be for a period of life
[14:55]so that it's not like only right now.
[14:57]Like as somebody gets married or is thinking
[14:59]I'm getting married or as someone is having a child.
[15:01]He just kind of, when you break up again, go back.
[15:04]I will say, even my children's book, I felt like,
[15:09]because when I wrote it, we were married.
[15:11]And it was just an amicable,
[15:13]like we just kind of grew apart.
[15:15]There's no drama.
[15:17]And it's been great, actually Olivia's,
[15:18]I feel like I should write something about,
[15:21]it wasn't as traumatic for Olivia.
[15:23]I was prepared for the like,
[15:24]she's gonna cry and beg us to stay together.
[15:26]And she knows she was only,
[15:30]I guess she was, I was like eight when we broke up.
[15:33]But she had friends whose parents had divorced.
[15:35]And it was more logistical for her like,
[15:37]so when dad's plays can have a bunk bed, and yeah,
[15:42]it's been, it was interesting.
[15:43]I think our baggage about what is going to be hard
[15:45]for a child to understand isn't necessarily what they,
[15:49]you know, what they're not going to have those issues.
[15:51]And I think I'm proud that we,
[15:53]to show her that we could still be happy
[15:56]and that we still want love and that we're, you know,
[15:58]we can be friends and be amicable,
[16:00]but if you're not, you should really still be madly
[16:03]in love with your partner or find someone else
[16:04]and make sure happy so glad to be modeling that.
[16:07]It's not going great, but I was like,
[16:09]I wonder here what's going on with you like today.
[16:13]Where are you, where are you, are you going to keep us?
[16:16]Just right, I've just written this long essay about it
[16:18]that's made me think I need to write a new book.
[16:21]And I've been listening to like Smith Irby
[16:23]and more effron, I feel bad about my neck.
[16:25]Like I was in a relationship after my divorce
[16:28]that I was one of those pep talks like Cindy,
[16:30]met a guy on a plane between New York and L.A.
[16:33]and had this amazing bicostal relationship
[16:36]and he bought this farmhouse and we were drinking out
[16:40]of a goblets that was like we were in this Nancy Myers
[16:42]maybe or something.
[16:43]This was for the whole pandemic.
[16:45]And I was so deliriously happy.
[16:48]And then I just found out right the day
[16:51]after the writer's strike that he had been having a fair
[16:54]for two and a half of those three years
[16:55]with his housekeeper.
[16:57]And I'm like, is it happening?
[16:59]Yeah, she contacted me on Facebook and she said,
[17:06]and she sent me these texts between him where she said,
[17:09]I thought it was just me and Cindy
[17:11]and he said, it is just you and Cindy.
[17:12]And I was like, what's happening?
[17:15]And I'm laughing now, but it's been very dramatic.
[17:17]And I was like, I don't know if I can keep doing this,
[17:19]but I will somehow, but it was rough.
[17:22]So I feel like I went from like the inspiring tale
[17:25]to a cautionary tale.
[17:26]And I also feel like why am I still going through this
[17:29]at this age?
[17:30]And I've written about dating forever.
[17:32]I should know what I'm doing, but anyway.
[17:36]So it's been I've been knocked for a loop.
[17:40]Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
[17:42]On the other hand, you keep getting all this material.
[17:44]I was a little bit out of material.
[17:46]I will say, I was like, you know, when you're happy,
[17:49]there's not much right about now.
[17:50]I'm like, okay, well, thank you universe.
[17:52]Oh my gosh, I cannot believe that happens.
[17:54]I cannot believe it.
[17:56]Either it's really been rough.
[17:58]And people say, I hope it doesn't make you question
[18:01]and you're probably going back through it
[18:02]and thinking, how did I not know?
[18:03]But no, he was really very like compartmentalized
[18:06]about this.
[18:07]So there weren't any signs.
[18:08]I don't and I don't feel like I don't trust men now
[18:11]because it was really hard to pull off.
[18:14]I feel like not many men could do this.
[18:18]So I don't know how I feel.
[18:20]But anyway, I'm back to my between boyfriends.
[18:23]Wow.
[18:23]Oh my gosh.
[18:25]Well, the interior monologue that you have
[18:29]and that you share with others is like the sense
[18:31]I hope you to say it's a gift, but seriously,
[18:34]I mean, as you've seen with the popularity
[18:36]of sex in the city and all the things you've written,
[18:38]there is something about how you write
[18:40]that just completely strikes a chord.
[18:42]It's this mix of like self-deprecation
[18:45]and the relatable things and saying the things,
[18:47]as you said, that people don't want to say out loud,
[18:49]even if it's, you know, not wanting to take care
[18:52]of a sick boyfriend or just things like,
[18:54]you worry, oh, people will judge me for this
[18:56]and you just go out and say them.
[18:58]And it is so refreshing and awesome.
[19:00]This is like why you were here
[19:02]as a thing to have all these crazy things out of you.
[19:05]At the place that I'm writing,
[19:07]it's kind of a travel piece
[19:08]because I had a past lives reader
[19:10]once told me that I hadn't had a good relationship
[19:12]since ancient Greece.
[19:14]Oh my gosh.
[19:16]So that was like, okay.
[19:18]I knew it was a glove, but that was like between half.
[19:21]And then when I got married, I was like, I did it.
[19:23]Because she said your job in this lifetime
[19:24]is to learn to love and be loved.
[19:26]Oh, I felt like I did it when I got married
[19:29]and I felt like I did it with this last boyfriend.
[19:30]So when we broke up, I was looking for somewhere to go
[19:33]and I found this like healing hotels of the world website.
[19:37]And the one that really spoke to me,
[19:39]I was making a reservation.
[19:40]I'm like, it's in Greece.
[19:41]It was like in the shadow of this ancient town of Greece.
[19:44]In the movie, I guess I should have met someone there,
[19:47]but really it was just healing.
[19:48]And like, good to be there.
[19:49]But I was like, okay, I knew what I was doing
[19:52]when I was here once before.
[19:55]But I feel like, yeah, like I'm not sure
[19:58]how many lessons, but.
[20:00]I do like, I mean, it's therapeutic for me, too,
[20:03]to write about when things don't go your way.
[20:06]I think it's like therapeutic for me to write,
[20:08]and it's therapeutic to hear people relate.
[20:10]And, you know, that's why I'm doing it,
[20:13]but I think that makes you feel like part of a community
[20:15]are not so alone with these feelings, et cetera.
[20:19]I wanna read the essay.
[20:20]Is it, did you sell it somewhere yet?
[20:21]Is it coming out?
[20:22]Well, it's funny, because I sold it to L.com,
[20:25]so I would have more space, because it's online.
[20:27]As I've been listening to Samantha Urbanism,
[20:28]like, she writes the longest greatest essays
[20:30]you could listen forever.
[20:32]And that's the thing about, I guess,
[20:34]I've done a lot of cross-training with writing,
[20:37]because I like to write TV and film, but also books,
[20:39]and sometimes magazine columns
[20:41]or tell a story for the moth.
[20:43]And they all have different lengths,
[20:44]but when you write an essay that could be in a book,
[20:47]it can be as long as you want.
[20:49]And I wrote this piece.
[20:50]I worked with an editor who's kind of overall
[20:53]of her Ryan Dagestino, who I love,
[20:55]and he helped me place it.
[20:57]And we sold it to L.com.
[21:00]But I wrote it, he said, write it as long as you want.
[21:01]And my first version was like 9,000 words,
[21:04]it's supposed to be like two.
[21:06]And then we cut it down to five.
[21:07]So I'm hoping the editor will just let it run
[21:09]at that length, because I feel like it should be
[21:12]at least that.
[21:12]Anyway, I'll send you the 9,000 word.
[21:14]Oh my god, I love it.
[21:15]Seriously, I would obviously love it.
[21:17]This is completely not true.
[21:19]I feel like now I'm entitled to the updates.
[21:21]It's just like I'm holding the book waving it around.
[21:24]Like, okay, well, you shared all that.
[21:26]It would two courses.
[21:27]Oh, I was gonna say, so we waited for you.
[21:29]My tour was basically your bookshop,
[21:30]I really did not do a lot of fun.
[21:33]A lot of publicity, but I'm still so happy it's out.
[21:36]And I was like talking to the publicist
[21:38]and I said, is it gonna be weird?
[21:40]Cause I'm not married anymore.
[21:41]It was we should have been I now.
[21:42]And now I feel a little weird.
[21:43]She said, you know, people are not expecting this
[21:47]to be autobiographical, like you're meant more.
[21:50]Like they're not interviewing you and going you.
[21:52]Why aren't you always still?
[21:53]Anyway, I still think of it like the whole extended family.
[21:56]But yeah, I think it's not,
[21:58]I have to sometimes separate the work from.
[22:01]It's hard too, but yeah, just go.
[22:02]It still stands.
[22:04]These things still stand.
[22:06]So do you still believe and love?
[22:10]Yeah, that's a good question.
[22:12]For everybody else, it's so easy for me
[22:17]for everybody else.
[22:17]I'm always that cheerleader like you are still,
[22:19]it's not over yet, you know.
[22:21]I think I believe in it for me,
[22:23]but I think I, I guess in the movie version,
[22:26]this is the time where I'm supposed to like be alone for a while.
[22:28]I think I've had a lot of boyfriends
[22:30]and maybe I haven't been alone enough
[22:33]and I'm really being a great mom right now
[22:35]with the strike and being without a boyfriend.
[22:38]I'm like in it.
[22:40]I am in school.
[22:41]I feel like a dad feels when they drive their kid to school.
[22:44]Like look at me, I'm going to school and under that now.
[22:46]I'm like, look, I'm here.
[22:49]I'm at the PTA.
[22:50]I'm volunteering.
[22:52]I'm trying to just be a good mom.
[22:53]And I actually wrote one.
[22:55]I've been writing a little more travel pieces
[22:56]and I wrote one about going to Ohio with a tween,
[22:59]traveling with a tween.
[23:00]And I really wanted to, this movie I wrote,
[23:03]it ended with I had always wanted to see the Northern Lights
[23:05]and my last boyfriend, we had this bucket list
[23:07]and we were going to do these things together.
[23:09]And I'm really determined right now
[23:11]like I'm going to go see the Northern Lights
[23:12]with Olivia, like with my daughter.
[23:15]I'm not waiting for like the perfect boyfriend
[23:17]going this romantic expensive trip.
[23:18]Like I just wanted to do it.
[23:19]And she says it's on her bucket list,
[23:21]even though she's 12, she has a bucket list.
[23:25]So I'm kind of like in a place of that love too, you know?
[23:30]At the front of mine, I recently, I had a surgery
[23:33]and I had a friend come in and I said,
[23:34]it feels weird not to have a partner in my life right now
[23:37]for these kind of things.
[23:39]Like in case of emergency.
[23:40]I know we did that on sex in the city,
[23:43]sometimes with the hell is my in case of emergency person anymore.
[23:47]But anyway, my friend said you have a million people
[23:50]who love you, you have so many friends.
[23:51]Just none of them are a man right now.
[23:55]And it's really was good to remember
[23:57]that you're not like suddenly alone
[23:59]because your relationship ended.
[24:00]You still have all these people in your life
[24:02]and I still have Olivia and, you know,
[24:04]it's still, there's still a love in my life.
[24:06]So I'm going to just try to keep living my best life
[24:09]but I'm not going to try as hard right now.
[24:11]People go, oh, you can get online in date
[24:12]and I'm like, I have done that so many times already.
[24:16]So my own, when I was divorcing,
[24:19]people were divorcing who'd married
[24:21]like that had been their whole life.
[24:23]And they were like, I can finally date.
[24:24]And I was like, oh my God, I did so much date
[24:27]and then I'm dating again.
[24:30]And I will be dating again.
[24:31]Like it's sort of like, it's not a novelty.
[24:34]Yeah, but I'm still, I guess I would have,
[24:37]I'm still hopeful.
[24:38]There's something in me that's still cool.
[24:39]Because even now I'm like,
[24:41]maybe if I'm not looking, which of course is hopeful.
[24:45]I'm going to pretend I'm not looking.
[24:46]Yeah, I'm going to try to fool myself
[24:48]that I'm not really looking right now.
[24:50]Yeah.
[24:52]I was thinking though, I might be at this stage
[24:54]where like maybe fix ups are the way to go.
[24:56]There is a drop of men at this age
[24:58]because people have divorced and died.
[25:00]There was some period where there was no one.
[25:02]And now there's kind of a new group of men
[25:05]and I feel like maybe fix ups are the thing to do
[25:07]at this age because everybody comes kind of pre-screened
[25:10]and they've already been through a relationship.
[25:12]Your friends know.
[25:13]So I'm like, that's true.
[25:14]There are a lot of people who do have someone
[25:16]to put on a case of emergency who they can't stand
[25:19]or they feel so alone.
[25:22]Even when they're...
[25:23]They're not sure they're going to be good in an emergency.
[25:24]Yeah.
[25:25]Or they're like, what are these people?
[25:26]They're going to like shut me off.
[25:27]They're going to like turn the thing off now.
[25:30]Like maybe I should fix someone else.
[25:32]I'm sorry.
[25:33]My dad was, he died this summer.
[25:36]I feel like it's all.
[25:37]But it's, we had a tricky relationship.
[25:41]Anyway, my sister was his medical power of attorney.
[25:44]And I mean, I'm not, wait,
[25:46]I'm his medical power of attorney.
[25:47]My sister was his financial power of attorney.
[25:49]Anyway, my sister, not so great in this situation.
[25:52]Like she was really, and she's my medical power of attorney.
[25:56]And I was like, I think I'm getting a new one.
[25:58]Yes.
[25:58]Yes.
[25:59]She just kept reevaluating and remaking no matter what the,
[26:04]but my dad, who wasn't all that happy in life,
[26:07]he said he wanted extraordinary measures taken.
[26:10]So it was like, so she, even though I was in charge
[26:14]was really like he wants everything possible done.
[26:17]So it was good to have a test run with the person
[26:19]who's going to be in charge of your plug.
[26:21]To be them around someone else.
[26:24]Cause I was like, you know what?
[26:25]I don't know.
[26:26]I'm going to, maybe go with your husband.
[26:28]You have to write that too.
[26:29]If you haven't already, that's okay.
[26:32]Oh, wait.
[26:32]Use it.
[26:33]Okay.
[26:35]The new hooks in my head at least.
[26:37]Yeah, that's so funny.
[26:39]Oh, my gosh.
[26:40]Well, first of all, I'll set you up.
[26:41]If I have the right person, I'm going to be like,
[26:43]I'm now that now my mind is like going,
[26:45]but of course that's not the point.
[26:47]The point is you want all this stuff, it's relatable,
[26:50]it's funny, it's sad, it's hard.
[26:53]One time you're crying, one time you're laughing,
[26:55]and that is life, right?
[26:56]This is, this is it, you're like in it.
[26:58]And you're writing just makes everybody feel
[27:01]and feel okay about whatever they're going through.
[27:04]And so I'm sorry for all the stuff that is not present
[27:08]and unbelievable.
[27:10]But thank you for getting here.
[27:14]Well, thank you for what you do.
[27:15]You've had so many of my favorite people.
[27:17]In fact, you had Betsy Carter on to...
[27:19]Yes.
[27:20]She ran, okay, I brought it down.
[27:23]New York, what were my living stuff for you?
[27:25]You were probably too young.
[27:26]No, I'm not too young.
[27:27]I'm not too young.
[27:28]She had this magazine and I was the first piece I ever wrote
[27:31]was one of their back page essays.
[27:34]Oh, my gosh.
[27:35]She's in between boyfriends, but the only in New York.
[27:38]But she published it and that started everything for me.
[27:41]So I still feel, I love that magazine.
[27:43]I was such a good magazine and it had such good humor.
[27:46]And that back page was always, you know,
[27:48]like Marcel Clemens, really smart female writers
[27:50]who inspired me.
[27:52]So yeah, I was part of that conversation of like,
[27:55]oh, that's the kind of writing I could do.
[27:57]Betsy Carter is one of the only authors I knew growing up.
[28:01]And so I would always ask her questions
[28:04]because my parents just didn't know that many writers.
[28:07]And so she was always someone.
[28:08]And when I was trying to write my first novel,
[28:10]when I was like 25, 26, I would send her drafts.
[28:14]And she was so nice to me.
[28:15]And so having her on the podcast was such a full circle for me.
[28:19]And now that I think you wrote for her,
[28:20]I mean, it's just, you know,
[28:22]I heard you say that on the podcast,
[28:24]how she was part of the reason I was thinking,
[28:25]she was part of the reason I was writing to them.
[28:27]Oh, that article started everything.
[28:29]Oh, my gosh, so funny.
[28:31]Well, congratulations on all of your work.
[28:33]And thank you for coming on and thanks for the copies
[28:36]and then all of it.
[28:38]Thank you.
[28:39]Okay, thank you.
[28:40]Okay, bye.
[28:43]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[28:45]Don't have time to read books.
[28:47]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[28:49]at ZB Owens and at Moms.
[28:50]Don't have time to read books.
[28:52]Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com
[28:54]and sign up for my virtual book club
[28:56]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:59]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[29:00]in fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[29:03]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[29:04]for providing this fantastic intro
[29:06]and now trim music.