Lucy Clarke, THE HIKE
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[1:03]Lucy Clark is the author of the hike.
[1:05]This episode was guest hosted by Julie Chavez, author of the forthcoming Zippy Books title
[1:10]Everyone, but myself, a memoir.
[1:13]Sunday Times Bestseller Lucy Clark is the author of seven other destination thrillers,
[1:17]which include Waterstones Thriller of the Month, The Castaways, and Richard and Judy Book Club
[1:22]pick, One of the Girls, Lucy's novels have sold over a million copies.
[1:26]The blue slash no escape has been filmed as a major international TV series for Paramount
[1:30]Plus, do for release later in 2023, and two further novels are currently in development
[1:35]for screen.
[1:36]When Lucy isn't away on research trips, her favorite part of the job, she can be found
[1:40]riding from a beach hut on the South Coast of England.
[1:42]She lives with her husband and two children.
[1:44]Lucy, thanks so much for coming on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books to talk about
[1:48]your upcoming novel The Hike.
[1:50]Thank you.
[1:51]Thanks for having me here.
[1:53]It's lovely.
[1:54]And I've got my kids here somewhere in the house or there some holiday, so we're really
[1:59]going to get the feel of this life.
[2:02]Yes, yes, we are, as I was just telling you, I'm filming directly from the utility room
[2:08]where my washer thankfully is not running at this moment, so that's a win.
[2:13]The sound guys will be really happy about that.
[2:16]Absolutely.
[2:17]Oh, going to go smoothly.
[2:19]Yes.
[2:20]Let's talk about your book.
[2:21]I finished it last night.
[2:22]I loved it.
[2:23]I have to say I was so impressed because it was so layered.
[2:29]I really, there were a few twists I didn't see coming.
[2:33]I mean, you can tell you're a pro.
[2:35]This is your eighth or ninth.
[2:37]It's kind of a jade.
[2:39]Okay.
[2:41]How was the experience of writing this book?
[2:44]It was an absolute pleasure, actually, and I can't say that for every book.
[2:48]I've got my copy here of The Hike, which is quite new to me.
[2:52]It's only just landed, so I do a lot stroking at the moment.
[2:56]Yeah, it was a pleasure to write it because I generally start a book based on the place
[3:03]that comes first in where I want to set a book.
[3:06]I do that because I spend a year, year and a half writing each normal one.
[3:11]I want to kind of inhabit a world that I'm going to have fun with for the next year or so.
[3:16]So I knew I wanted to set a book out in the wilds of Norway on a hike.
[3:22]I decided to go there on a research trip and do the actual trek and be out there.
[3:29]I hiked for five days at the tent on my back with my husband and the trail was a
[3:34]wild and beautiful and we didn't see a single hiker in five days.
[3:39]It's that remote.
[3:40]Wow.
[3:41]So it was really incredible, really fun.
[3:43]So I think that, for me, started the process off on exactly the right foot.
[3:47]From there, I could come back to my desk in the UK, which is where I am now.
[3:51]And just really love being in the rising space of this place, but also in the heads
[3:58]of four women who are the kind of lead protagonists who I came to love.
[4:02]So it was a fun book.
[4:03]A really fun book to write.
[4:05]Oh, I bet.
[4:06]I love that you were able to kind of revisit that as you were writing too.
[4:10]And I know you wrote in your bio that you really are a writer because you want to go on
[4:14]research trips.
[4:15]Absolutely.
[4:16]That is my number one reason of being a writer is for the research trips.
[4:21]And do you know what?
[4:22]When I decided to become a writer, I was in my mid 20s and I had another career in
[4:26]advertising to begin with and I went away on a six months trip with my boyfriend at the
[4:32]time who's my now husband and we had this wonderful six months.
[4:35]We actually travel all across America and Canada and spent a couple of months in Maui and
[4:40]when it got to the end of the trip, I was very much aware that I didn't want to go back
[4:45]to my desk job and like, that'd be my package of travels over in Dunwood.
[4:49]I just kept thinking, I want to keep on traveling and I really want to write and can
[4:56]I make these two things work together and that sort of led me to to this really.
[5:02]Oh, that's fantastic.
[5:04]I'm so glad I think you're totally in your sweet spot because you're I was so impressed
[5:09]by the smoothness of your book.
[5:11]I love the short chapters.
[5:13]That makes I think for such a nice reading experience, especially with multiple perspectives.
[5:18]But you did a really good job.
[5:19]I think because the friends are so close, you almost got from each perspective, you
[5:26]were still getting all the perspectives in each small chapter, which is no small feat.
[5:32]I mean, it was really impressive.
[5:35]I kept going back and thinking, how did she do this?
[5:38]I mean, is that something that's developed for you over time or?
[5:42]Hey, I know about that.
[5:45]I would say, I love, I love reading books that are real character studies and character
[5:50]driven, despite me being in a kind of thriller sphere, I really actually enjoy thrillers
[5:56]that go really deep on character.
[5:58]Otherwise, it's just a plot and it loses me because I don't care.
[6:01]So I know about my characters and I've always felt that as a reader, but as a writer,
[6:07]that's really hard to put into practice and I definitely struggle with the character to begin
[6:13]with.
[6:14]I think it was like my weakest area and I would not put a book out there until I was
[6:18]happy with my characters.
[6:19]And it just meant draft upon draft and it would maybe be like my eighth draft for a finding
[6:25]was like, oh, okay.
[6:26]I really know my character now.
[6:27]And I think over time, I've kind of got into my characters a bit more quickly now and
[6:34]definitely writing from giving each of the protagonists, the point of view has really
[6:39]helped because I kind of like get into their internal thoughts so like what they're thinking
[6:44]and a really simple example might be in my previous novel, One of the Girls, they go
[6:51]a group of six women go on holiday on to, well, it's actually a head, we had a bachelor
[6:56]at parties, good call it.
[6:57]Yes, yes.
[6:58]Thank you for the translation.
[7:00]Do you think?
[7:01]I was like, I have had a party and I've got six row different women, but what I love is
[7:08]is seeing how if they were given the same plate of food, how each of those women, and
[7:12]I don't know if this is an obvious way, but what their reaction may be.
[7:17]And I think like when you kind of just get their internal thoughts, it's not a spoken
[7:20]thing.
[7:21]It's just like how do they feel like someone, one of them is pissed off at someone
[7:24]else is talking to them while they're trying to eat because this is their moment.
[7:28]And someone asked, you know, I don't really like eating in public and a third person
[7:33]is kind of fretting about like portion size.
[7:35]And just, I don't know.
[7:36]You can get a flavor of each character just like what they're thinking by giving them
[7:42]the same thing.
[7:43]And they're all very different.
[7:44]I don't know if that makes sense, but for me, it helps me to get into character more.
[7:48]That makes complete sense.
[7:50]And that seems like such a good exercise, the idea of giving them all the same and also
[7:57]like you're referring to a simple situation, right?
[8:00]It's not only what they would do in a big moment, but just in a very tiny, everyday
[8:05]moment.
[8:06]What are they doing?
[8:07]Yeah.
[8:08]Okay.
[8:09]So I have questions related to that now.
[8:11]You have four characters in this one.
[8:13]You have Joni, Maggie, Helena, Liz.
[8:17]Very good.
[8:18]Okay.
[8:19]Whoo.
[8:20]Pass.
[8:21]And who are you most like?
[8:24]Well, I knew exactly who I most like because in the UK, I'll publish a set up a BuzzFeed
[8:30]quiz.
[8:31]And you answered multiple choice stuff and it came out with, you know, you're a Maggie
[8:35]or whoever.
[8:36]And I did the quiz.
[8:37]And the character I really wanted to be was Joni because she's like the cool and
[8:43]positive rock star.
[8:45]She's just like out there spontaneous.
[8:49]And I got Liz, who is like the checklist person, you plan the trip.
[8:55]She's very organized and efficient and she's on a straight path.
[8:59]I have friends to tease her because she's just so, sort of, fine the book.
[9:03]And I got Liz and I just, I knew it, deep down.
[9:06]I knew that was going to happen, but I wanted, I wanted to be Joni.
[9:11]I'm sorry for your loss.
[9:12]It's very disappointing.
[9:13]Yeah.
[9:14]Yeah.
[9:15]I think, unfortunately, I too identify with Liz would love to.
[9:20]Oh, good.
[9:21]I'm a Joni, but it's a lot.
[9:23]No.
[9:24]I mean, I think, do you know what's the fun thing when you're writing other women is that
[9:28]actually in all of the characters, they're all really different.
[9:31]And yes, I am more of a list than the others, but there are actually parts of me that
[9:36]I've put into all of the women and they might be a very tiny part, which I've kind
[9:40]of magnifies and explored if that, you know, was an experience that I've had like Maggie
[9:45]for example, she's creative and quite bahimium, but very sort of nervous about going on
[9:53]this hike because of her fitness and she's got a young daughter that she's leaving behind
[9:57]at home and she just feels lost without her.
[10:00]And it's just an awful moment when she says goodbye
[10:03]and she leaves her in the care of her ex-partner.
[10:06]And for me, you know, I've got young children
[10:09]and that whole experience was saying goodbye
[10:12]was definitely something I felt.
[10:14]And even though, you know, we're quite different,
[10:17]I just, there's so many parts of yourself
[10:19]that you can put into your characters
[10:21]and then just kind of push them to the,
[10:23]to the raising mistakes,
[10:24]pushing them to the extreme really
[10:25]and seeing how those characters act.
[10:28]Yes.
[10:29]Well, you can sense that in your writing.
[10:31]You write very beautifully about
[10:33]imagine the connection between Phoebe and Maggie.
[10:36]We don't meet Phoebe, but, you know, we do through Maggie
[10:39]in that way that, which is so interesting, I think, as a mom.
[10:43]You know, you do know other people's families
[10:46]through the women that you're connected to
[10:50]and their children and their experience of them.
[10:52]So I loved that.
[10:53]Your writing about grief was really profound and beautiful.
[10:57]And there were just, there were even lines I highlighted here.
[11:00]So you definitely accomplished your goal of, you know,
[11:04]having depth behind it because it's true.
[11:06]Thrillers can be sort of formulaic
[11:10]and you're just following the page.
[11:12]But no, this was a page, Turner.
[11:14]And I also really, I knew the characters by the end too.
[11:19]So that was a gift to me.
[11:20]So I'm so excited for readers to explore it.
[11:24]Thank you.
[11:25]Now, here's the big question.
[11:27]So you become connected to these characters, obviously.
[11:29]You're creating the merit carefully.
[11:31]We're going deep.
[11:31]How do you decide who's going to die?
[11:34]Ah, it's really hard.
[11:36]And you know what, my editorial feedback from publishers
[11:39]is it will always, can we just kill someone, please?
[11:43]Can we have body?
[11:46]And actually, when I did my first draft of the hike,
[11:50]none of the women died.
[11:51]I didn't kill any of them off.
[11:53]And I just became really attached.
[11:55]And I wanted the nice ending outcome of them
[11:59]all making it whole.
[12:00]And they have learned stuff and getting out of its wilderness
[12:03]together and having grown together.
[12:05]But actually, you know, I then read the draft back.
[12:09]I had some space from a Reddit back.
[12:11]I was like, no, the payoff isn't there.
[12:13]Like the threat that's following these women is so large.
[12:17]And I think it would have felt unsatisfying
[12:20]to have tied it up too neatly.
[12:23]So yeah, I did have to call them off.
[12:25]And I never know when I was starting a book
[12:27]who that will be is very much kind of in the writing.
[12:31]Like I never know.
[12:32]I don't think I've ever started
[12:33]but knowing who's going to die.
[12:35]And quite often, it changes during the writing process
[12:39]if I'm like, oh, OK, I think it's going to be this person.
[12:41]And then I might write that draft to be like,
[12:43]no, doesn't feel right.
[12:45]And just go back and then redo it until I find kind
[12:49]the right ending for me at least.
[12:52]That makes sense.
[12:53]I think it just felt so.
[12:56]I mean, it feels really cruel to say it felt right
[12:59]who you showed, but yeah, that would be right.
[13:04]One of those, well, I'm sorry for you,
[13:06]but you had to go back because I'm glad we're
[13:13]aligned with that practicality.
[13:14]Like in the end, I'm sorry.
[13:16]This is what has to happen.
[13:18]Now for you, so this is your eighth book.
[13:22]We talked about that briefly.
[13:23]How over time, what do you think is the thing
[13:28]that you've gotten better at in terms of improvement?
[13:32]What have you improved at the most?
[13:33]What do you think has been over time?
[13:35]What has experience given you?
[13:37]I think where perhaps my strength lies now
[13:41]is in the pace and suspense.
[13:44]I think I've really learned how to structure a novel
[13:48]so that you get that build of suspense.
[13:51]And I think being in the thriller space
[13:54]is quite hard for me because it's
[13:55]about how you market a book.
[13:57]And you know, I mean, in the thriller space,
[13:59]but I'm not at the high body cow, dark stuff happening
[14:03]all the time.
[14:04]And because my books are quite character driven,
[14:07]there has to be that investment at the beginning
[14:09]of a novel where maybe you haven't got all the big page
[14:12]turning drama happening.
[14:14]And you're getting to know the characters.
[14:15]And I think what I try and do in that situation
[14:19]is use my structure to try and create the threat to come
[14:23]so that I can clearly signpost to the reader.
[14:26]He looked, this is a thriller.
[14:27]There are going to be dark moments.
[14:29]This is my set up.
[14:30]But by adding in interludes from things that happen later
[14:34]on in the novel, whether that be a prologue
[14:36]or I have a mountain rescue interludes
[14:39]from one of the characters in a bit,
[14:41]one of the male characters called Laith.
[14:43]And he really, without giving too much away,
[14:46]he lets us know from the beginning
[14:48]that there are women out on this trail,
[14:50]start their body.
[14:51]And we get that sense of propulsion
[14:55]from his point of view, even well,
[14:56]the women are actually setting out
[14:58]having a wonderful time to begin with.
[14:59]So I think I've learned more about yet structure
[15:03]and pacing and suspense as I've gone on.
[15:06]And that's just practice and lots of reading as well.
[15:10]Your books remind me a little bit of Sally her birth
[15:13]in which I love her books as well.
[15:17]But similar to that, maybe a little more thriller,
[15:21]but that same sort of suspense, but so character driven.
[15:25]So I appreciate what you're saying,
[15:27]where it sounds like where you started
[15:30]getting to know your characters.
[15:31]But that pacing is so tricky.
[15:34]And I think as a reader, it's hidden.
[15:39]We don't see that if you're reading it,
[15:42]then it's just right.
[15:43]And it smoothed right out.
[15:44]But as a writer, yeah, it's like trying to pull teeth.
[15:47]I mean, I just, what do you put in here?
[15:49]And then, you know, succumbing to the temptation
[15:52]to just put in sort of filler
[15:54]that doesn't move anything anywhere.
[15:56]Yeah, I'm certainly, I hate the,
[15:58]and I think in often psychological thrillers,
[16:01]you get those scenes where, you know,
[16:03]somewhere you're looking over your shoulder,
[16:04]you can hit footsteps and you're running
[16:05]and all of that kind of stuff.
[16:06]And I'm not into that.
[16:08]I want to feel compelled
[16:10]and the tension because I care about
[16:12]what the characters are doing in that moment.
[16:14]And I think it's a harder way to get paid,
[16:17]but it's so much more satisfying by the end of the read
[16:20]that you, yeah, hopefully you're so invested in the outcome.
[16:24]That's what it is.
[16:25]Yes, that's a really good way to put it.
[16:27]I remember in certain literary fiction,
[16:30]I know when I've read too much about plants,
[16:33]I just want to throw the book across the room.
[16:35]Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[16:38]Like, I don't care that they're seagrats.
[16:41]I really, and some people love that,
[16:43]which is the great thing about all books, right?
[16:45]Is that you and I are talking about the kind of books
[16:46]that we like, but that everyone is so different
[16:51]with that kind of stuff.
[16:51]There's some people that would just love
[16:53]to read about Hydrangean, I don't know if to look all day long.
[16:58]Okay, yes, yes.
[17:00]Oh, there's soft-soken petals
[17:02]with just some of them in total excitement.
[17:06]Yeah.
[17:07]Tell me about a little bit more about Norway.
[17:10]What was that trip like?
[17:11]Because I read in your acknowledgements about it,
[17:14]and I just thought, oh, I don't know
[17:16]that I would want to do that.
[17:18]So I mean, are you a natural outdoorsy person?
[17:20]Is that just like-
[17:21]I am.
[17:22]I am very, I love being outdoors.
[17:25]I'm much happier and better company when I'm outdoors
[17:28]and I love hiking.
[17:30]I've never done a big trip like the novel.
[17:33]We just, where we live, bit of La Vierio,
[17:36]and we hike a lot, but so for the actual research,
[17:39]it was a proper, yeah, you know,
[17:43]put your tent on your back, take your gas stove,
[17:46]everything that you need for five days,
[17:48]you're out in the wilderness.
[17:49]And luckily I went with my husband
[17:51]who's always really gained for stuff like that.
[17:53]And he's a great person, you know,
[17:55]I feel like safe when I'm hiking with him.
[17:58]Oh, that's good.
[17:59]But that being said, hiking in Norway
[18:01]felt incredibly different.
[18:03]Anywhere else I've hiked because the wilderness is,
[18:07]it's just so much more vast and threatening
[18:13]and more beautiful, like everything is more,
[18:15]I feel in Norway.
[18:17]There's a scene or several scenes in the hike
[18:20]where fog rolls in and it envelopes everything
[18:24]and visibility is down to zero.
[18:27]And this happened when we were on our hike,
[18:29]and we were up in the mountains and fog rolled in,
[18:32]you could see it about,
[18:33]it took about five minutes to reach us
[18:35]and you could just see what looked like
[18:37]almost a really dense cloud.
[18:39]And I remember how my skin, I just got goosebumps everywhere
[18:43]and I felt like as it reached us,
[18:45]it was like an icy fog that I couldn't breathe almost
[18:48]because of the density of the moisture in this fog.
[18:52]And my husband would just be like,
[18:54]if he was more than two meters away,
[18:56]I could no longer see him.
[18:58]So it just felt really threatening,
[19:01]really scary in all your landmarks of like mountains
[19:04]and lakes and everything was swallowed.
[19:06]So you felt like you couldn't really move,
[19:09]but you're just alone in this space
[19:11]and it was really terrifying.
[19:13]And then of course you've got the moment of sheer relief
[19:16]and beauty when the sky clears and it's blue
[19:19]and you can just see all around you.
[19:20]And I think experiencing those things firsthand,
[19:24]absolutely brought to life, the landscape
[19:27]and also more richly the emotions that my women
[19:30]who I'm setting out in this trail would then feel.
[19:32]So it was really important for me,
[19:34]really important part of the writing process
[19:36]and loads of fun.
[19:38]It was a retrospective fun, like really hard
[19:41]doing the hike and just feeling like, you know,
[19:44]it rained a little, I was in my period,
[19:47]it was just like gross.
[19:49]And then I thought, being on the side,
[19:52]I was just like, I'm an absolute legend.
[19:54]I'm a legend, I just did that, it was great.
[19:56]100% I would tell, Lou.
[20:00]everyone upon meeting them, right?
[20:02]I have a avocado and also do you know what I did last week?
[20:07]Yeah, that's well that makes complete sense and you're right you definitely
[20:13]wrote that well because the scenes where it's foggy and they can't see
[20:17]anything and they may or may not be walking off the edge of the mountain or
[20:21]toward the DNT. I mean I that for me I'm like oh dear and I think I even
[20:28]set out so I out loud to myself a couple times oh no
[20:34]like that. Speaking of handbooks is a really good sign so that's great.
[20:38]Yes it is I love talking to myself when I'm reading a book or that yeah
[20:43]continue. It's not gonna be authors I was reading a maggie of
[20:46]Farrell recently who's one of my favorite authors not just like oh maggie my
[20:50]goodness yes yes. I couldn't say like what are you doing who are you speaking to?
[20:55]I was like my book. I interrupt. We're having a conversation. Leave me a
[21:00]look. I'm very busy. Exactly. What's your favorite thing as a reader?
[21:07]What do you enjoy most? You were mentioning maggie of Farrell?
[21:10]Oh I I've just finished reading tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow
[21:15]which I've absolutely loved and I really it's a fantastic novel and it
[21:20]didn't appeal to me talks about gaming which is just not my world but the
[21:24]characters just incredible in it and I think I love books that are
[21:30]beautifully written but that you're compelled to just whether it's
[21:35]compelled through the tension in the plot or whether it's just
[21:38]through character relationships. I need to just be invested in the characters
[21:41]and care and I think those are my favorite books and if you can blend that
[21:45]like crawdads with a gorgeous setting then I'm 100% in so I think
[21:51]those types of books are the ones that really get me. I've just started
[21:55]peer patron Frankenstein. I'll get this off that but I had loads of good reviews
[22:00]and it's it's really fantastic me written so I'm enjoying that.
[22:03]I can't wait to read that one. I'll put that on my list.
[22:06]It's really fun really fun. Yes tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow for me
[22:11]was one I think I'd like to reread. Yes. Because it was so rich and
[22:17]certain books I feel like have to be read. I wish I had had more dedicated
[22:22]time at the beginning. You know? Yeah. Experience just to get
[22:26]because I loved it but I think I would appreciate even more the second time and
[22:31]that's where for me most books I'm like I don't have time to reread you.
[22:35]And I think there's lots of books that you can read really fast and
[22:38]skim and particularly thrillers like I kind of know that it's like
[22:42]this and just skim. That is not a book to skim and I think if you go into it
[22:46]it may be reading a bit too fast. Yes. Food and nuance and you kind of need
[22:51]that to go through and I read it really like I read it in a week but I read it
[22:55]slowly you know like us taking my time with it. Yeah and I loved it because it went
[23:00]really deep on the creative process to do gaming which is just not my world
[23:05]but I was like it's all creativity. It doesn't matter whether it's building a
[23:08]game or writing a book or making a show or whatever it was just it was really
[23:12]it's fun. Yes. I love books that have that sort of meta element about story right
[23:19]we're all living our story and then also but a game to that same
[23:22]point is very very similar. It's if the good games right not that just
[23:28]shoot you the ones that kids aren't really playing right. Yeah.
[23:32]Yeah. Bless their little souls. Love them so much.
[23:37]So tell me this what is your favorite thing about once a book comes out talking
[23:46]about story. I mean what do you enjoy about interacting with readers and one kind
[23:49]of side question that is a couple of your projects are in development for the
[23:54]screen have you been involved with that? How is that process? I mean once you're
[23:58]done and now it's out there both for readers and then
[24:01]developers what is that like? Yeah I think outside of the kind of
[24:05]job of just writing which is the great pleasure to me.
[24:09]Certainly the TV aspect has been an absolute dream and
[24:14]I've had my third novel which is called The Blue in the US. It has been made
[24:18]into a seven-part series of Paramount Plus which is out now. It would
[24:22]no escape and it was so fun to be part of it. I
[24:27]within the writers room I went out and said I took my family it was a seven-month
[24:31]shooting in Thailand. And gosh amazing.
[24:35]And it was the kind of in COVID times and the fact that we got out there just
[24:40]felt like this incredible thing that we even left the country and made it and when
[24:45]we got to Thailand we then had to quarantine for five days and
[24:48]do our PCRs and all of that so the stakes felt so high like we made it and then
[24:54]like what is we caught COVID on the plane and we can't go and set but anyway
[24:58]we got on set and this particular book is set on a yacht that sails around
[25:03]the Philippines with a group of kind of intrap like travelers and adventures and
[25:08]I have had this strong vision of what the yacht looked like and this cast of
[25:11]characters and they had just found like the production company had found the
[25:15]most perfect yacht that's called The Blue. I just went out and set on a
[25:21]huge pattern around with the director and producer and we went out to see and I
[25:26]just saw this yacht moored up this yacht from my imagination with the title of the
[25:31]book on and met the actors. I've met I've addressed rehearsals over Zoom stuff but
[25:36]just seeing what we know out in their costumes on the yacht. It was absolutely my
[25:42]blowing and I'm also so grateful that I set all my books in exotic locations because
[25:47]you know it was tired it was gorgeous so that was fun and yes I got another one has just
[25:53]wrapped now the castaways has just been shooting in Fiji and Greece when we went out to set
[25:58]again this summer and that comes out I think at the end of this year on Paramount Plus so
[26:04]it's been like oh it's just been wonderful I loved it and I've learned loads from being in
[26:11]the writers room about story and plots and dialogue and all of those things which you know it's
[26:18]really helpful to bring to the page as well so yes it's been a great journey. That's exciting
[26:24]was there any part of you that had a hard time letting go of anything like in the writer's room
[26:28]was there or was it just this is great do what you will? Absolutely do what we will and it's not
[26:34]that I'm like an easy-going control-free person because I'm not I'm like you know I'm a liz
[26:40]but I think I was okay with it because I just always felt firstly it's a gift to get your work
[26:47]option to make like come on I'm not going to say oh no I'm going to say thank you take my vote
[26:54]for making but also like second to that is that you've got this team of amazing creators who are
[27:02]just specialists in their fields and really bright creative people and they're taking your work
[27:08]and the book is always the book and they're just reimagining it as something out
[27:12]I'm like great what are you going to do with it and it might not be the end project
[27:16]that comes out match match to the book but it's fresh and new and I love that so it's being
[27:23]really interesting process and yeah I haven't had any qualms about letting go of control thankfully
[27:32]you didn't decide to be a full tilt diva just really everyone's life yeah of course
[27:37]my sister-in-law did say when you get on to set you just go no no not that I'm like I'm not sure
[27:44]that's me but may I try it once thanks for the advice and I'm gonna pass yeah that sounds bad
[27:55]that makes sense what and I know I kind of combined those questions so what is your when
[28:01]so when we're talking about readers what's your favorite thing to hear from a reader who reads one of
[28:05]of your books my very favorite thing is if someone sends me a message with a quote in like a quote
[28:13]that they loved about the book it always is really meaningful because if a reader says you know
[28:18]I love your book that's wonderful and that's great but if you get lots of messages saying that then
[28:24]I suppose it it loses like the special note but if someone says this really resonated with me
[28:30]this line or this character or just something so I like understand what it is they connected with
[28:36]I love that and I also when by the time a book comes out it's often in you know several months
[28:42]or a year since you've written it and you might have forgotten that line and it's a really nice
[28:45]reminder that you know what really hard over like that paragraph or crafting that sentence and
[28:51]said that's always really nice and of course as well if you're doing live events which you know
[28:57]back on the menu now it's great I think it's lovely when you can sign someone's book and just
[29:02]meet them in person and I love that and so you know just that extra like eye contact being is really
[29:09]nice that makes total sense the hours you spent slaving over your laptop right yes sweating over it
[29:16]I should say absolutely denying yes yes oh I forgot about the tears yeah it's just amazing how
[29:24]you can put that there right I'm just not I think about that anymore yeah we should end by saying
[29:29]that my line that I loved oh I didn't think my I read it on my Kindle so I highlighted it because
[29:35]I had your e-copy I'm gonna pull up the note but it's the line that I loved the most I had
[29:41]multiples but the one that I loved the most was about loneliness and it was oh well the other one
[29:50]this tension fizzed down the left side of her spine her emotions showing themselves in her body
[29:54]that was the line you wrote about Maggie pretty early on and then the other one was loneliness
[29:58]wasn't the absence of
[30:00]people she realized. It was the absence of people who understood you.
[30:05]And that is so true isn't it. We will be there. I remember going to university and
[30:11]things surrounded by people, but not not not meeting my tribe straight away and just getting like
[30:16]the loneliest person in the 60 and yeah, oh, I believe that's a good line that you have underlined.
[30:22]Oh, good one.
[30:23]I'm who? I feel really a lot better about it. No, I think the book is beautiful in that way though
[30:32]that there are so many small insights you get. It's a very human book and I think especially for
[30:39]women in the time of life in which many of us find ourselves, which is midlife, you know, you're
[30:45]kind of both the person you are and the person you want to become and the person you hope to become.
[30:50]It's they all converge and so the idea of going on a hike in that time with people you love
[30:58]and know you in all your imperfection is just such a great premise. So it's a wonderful book.
[31:04]Thank you. And that's a lovely way of describing that period of life. I completely,
[31:10]yeah, completely on board with that.
[31:12]It's just so strange isn't it? We're never done growing.
[31:14]Which is kind of definitely, honestly, if you ask me sometimes. I'm like, I'd like to just
[31:19]have reached the pinnacle of my existence and that is why I was not so yet, let's see, not yet.
[31:28]Well, thank you so much for this time. This was a joy. I loved talking to you. I can't wait to get
[31:33]into your backlist because this was such a good reading experience and also I think I need to sign
[31:38]up for Paramount+. So there's a little plug for them too. Absolutely. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[31:45]It's been really lovely to chat. It was a pleasure and we will all be picking up the hike. Thank you.
[31:51]Thanks for coming.
[31:53]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[31:57]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[32:01]Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and
[32:06]meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[32:12]for the Sound Editing and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[32:15]fantastic intro and outro music.