Einat Nathan on Israel and Parenting Today

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[1:03]This morning I had a very special conversation with A-Naught Nautan who is a parenting expert

[1:11]in Israel.

[1:13]And she was on my podcast a while ago.

[1:15]You can look for my past episode with her.

[1:17]But then we talked about her book My Everything About Her Parenting Advice this time because

[1:23]she is based in Tel Aviv and is an Israeli woman, mother, everything.

[1:29]We decided to have a chat about what was going on, how we could help, what it's like

[1:34]for her, what she has to say as a parenting expert.

[1:37]It was moving and emotional and I hung up the zoom or whatever you want to call it, got

[1:42]off the zoom and just put my head in my hands because wow.

[1:47]Anyway, I hope you listen to it.

[1:48]I hope you listen to it so you know what's going on in Israel right now, how people

[1:52]are feeling the effects of the massacre by Hamas and what it did to the people in the

[1:59]kibbutzes kibbutzim and it's really important.

[2:03]And it also just shows the power of how we can all unite and how little acts of kindness

[2:09]are so, so critical.

[2:12]So please listen.

[2:14]Here's our bio.

[2:15]A-Naught Nautan is a parenting expert, public speaker and best-selling author certified

[2:20]by the Adler Institute and the Ministry of Education for parental instruction and group

[2:24]instruction.

[2:26]She also holds a bachelor's degree in law from Tel Aviv University.

[2:29]In recent years, she has begun to work the experience insights and knowledge accumulated

[2:33]into a significant breadth of work in the media, including TV morning talk shows and radio,

[2:38]a hit podcast with Hillek Korach and a popular column on major newspapers and websites.

[2:46]Her book, Hime Shelly in Hebrew, published by Top Publisher, Keneret Zamora Bhutan, was

[2:52]the national bestseller of the year across all categories in 2018 and is still a steady

[2:56]seller.

[2:57]I've never heard that steady seller.

[2:59]It has sold more than 60,000 copies so far.

[3:02]The rights for the book were acquired by US publisher Hashette and it was published in North

[3:06]America under the name My Everything.

[3:10]A-Naught lives in Tel Aviv with her husband, Yvonne, and her five children, A-L-Youab,

[3:15]Lee, Rona, and Shira.

[3:17]Welcome, A-Naught.

[3:18]Thank you for coming back on mom's don't have time to read books.

[3:21]Our last interview was a while back but was so meaningful to me.

[3:25]I'm such an, you know, honestly a fan and just feel with you with five kids.

[3:31]Oh my gosh.

[3:32]Anyway, thank you for coming on.

[3:33]This is a special bonus episode so we can talk about everything going on in Israel and

[3:36]all of that.

[3:37]Can I say thank you for writing me and checking that I'm okay?

[3:45]You know, at these times being in Israel and you know with everything going on, it's so

[3:53]heartwarming just to see an email of someone who cares, you know?

[3:59]Oh my gosh.

[4:00]So it's not taken for granted.

[4:03]That's so sweet.

[4:04]No, I'm personally so worried about people.

[4:06]I know people I don't know.

[4:08]I just, you know, like all of us, there's so many of us here.

[4:13]What is going on?

[4:14]How is it, how does it feel to be there?

[4:16]Where are you in Israel?

[4:18]What has it been like?

[4:19]I know your son had served in the military when we last spoke.

[4:22]Okay, my two sons had served in the military and finished.

[4:27]They're now students at the university.

[4:31]Now I have a daughter in the army, which is crying all day long.

[4:36]They have sons now in the army.

[4:38]When I was in the army, you know, the nature was smarter.

[4:43]We couldn't phone our moms.

[4:46]So I don't know what we did, but we cried and we leaned on one another.

[4:53]Now I get a phone call every day.

[4:57]It's a video call and I see my baby girl in uniforms with a gun and helmets and our

[5:09]last conversation was she was crying and she was saying, Mommy, do you remember when

[5:17]you never forced us when we were young to go to after school activities or always when

[5:24]we said to you, we want to retire, you just made sure that we don't take this decision

[5:32]while having a failure or and you always let us retire.

[5:40]I want to retire, Mommy, I want you to come and take me home and she began.

[5:45]So this was yesterday's conversation and it's still the same mission by the way because

[5:52]I know that five minutes after she empties her trash can over me, she's happy with

[6:01]her friends and she's safe and she gets the present of feeling belonging to someone

[6:10]and useful and meaningfulness and I'm sorry, you know, generally for for I don't know,

[6:20]giving birth to children in this place or but this is out of my control.

[6:27]And then I have two more daughters at school which we don't have school practically.

[6:32]I think they didn't go to school since June.

[6:38]It was like the summer holiday and then we had the holidays and then this war begin.

[6:49]So this is on a personal level, we live in Tel Aviv.

[6:52]So we have the privilege of being safe, you know, it's all relative.

[6:59]And I was called for duty since I'm a parenting expert to help, you know, IDF, the army of

[7:09]families of evacuated people from the the the horror areas, mothers and childrens and and this

[7:20]this is unbelievable.

[7:23]It feels like a bad dream and I feel in a way like you feel being, you know, and you're in

[7:34]Europe, right? It feels kind of like this when you're in Tel Aviv.

[7:41]So except for the privilege I have, you know, to get on Zoom or to get inside the car and drive

[7:53]over there and give them a hug, there's nothing we can do.

[7:59]Oh my gosh.

[8:00]So when you work in your capacity as a parenting expert and you're talking to the families and

[8:06]I know this is what you do. But what can you say? How do you help and what messaging?

[8:13]Like what can what can anyone do?

[8:17]I think that the first, you know, basic thing is just acknowledging that this is an encounter

[8:29]between two human souls, you know, one in pain and the other one with a little tank fuel,

[8:40]you know, it's it's always about how much you have left. So this is relative as well.

[8:49]I think that the same way I was so excited to get your email.

[8:58]There is something about human empathy, even about witnessing someone's pain,

[9:06]that is a huge relief.

[9:09]And basically the questions that they have are in a way questions that no mother needs to ask herself

[9:26]seriously. But then it's the extreme questions of basic questions that we all ask ourselves,

[9:37]you know, how can we protect children from from evil? How do we mediate things that happen

[9:48]in the outside world when we don't understand them for them? How do we talk to children? So they

[9:55]will listen. How can we see children?

[10:00]Behaviors and understand the language because we all know that their job is to behave and our job is to understand and we didn't get manual

[10:12]so it's basically this and I think the most

[10:19]comforting

[10:20]message that I

[10:22]bring to mothers is

[10:24]that you know I think that we as adults were screwed. You know that's this is your comforting statement. Yes, it's it's it's it's hold on and with me.

[10:43]I'm saying that because we get the full picture but when you look at children and when I say children I'm talking about you know the the 24th

[10:54]25 years that it takes for their brain to to fully develop. When you look at children, you see that nature has done the best job to protect them and all they need is for us to be okay. Now that's a different

[11:18]view on things, then you know this fearful view of we can never correct for them. We can never take the clock back. They have experienced something that will you know harm them for the rest of their lives and it doesn't have to be that way. And it also I hope

[11:48]it gives us as adults a reason to step up to to to be and to do our job. This is the first job that we need to do because we're responsible for these many adults or or or uncooked

[12:12]brains that's you know they're helpless. And we are there ironed on. And we know for research you remember the movie. I think it was life is beautiful or with

[12:28]I don't know if she does that. Yeah they can walk through fire as long as the adults that you know walks with them is not you know it is the safe harbor of good narration of the happy ending or the safe place or you know just just being able to to give space.

[12:58]Do everything. I was sort of snuggling with one of my kids this morning and he was like I'm so glad you're my mom and I was like oh thank you why. He's like well because I know you can protect me.

[13:12]And I was like yes I can you're safe with me. And then I'm like thinking I don't even know if we're safe. You know and I was I think about I was telling a friend of mine this morning a friend who's not

[13:25]Jewish and I was like I don't understand this whole thing like why do we go hey Jewish people so much and I'm like I can't even go there. I was like but deep in our sort of DNA every occasion Jewish people get together. Yeah we relive the past so it doesn't happen again like we this is so you know and I remember saying in the Holocaust you know all the when all the signs came as we learn about over and over and I remember asking like my mom or some I'm like I don't understand why did the why did they not leave when all these things were happening with the stores.

[13:55]And this that and she said well that was their home and I was like I would have left you know and now here I am right and all these things are going on outside.

[14:04]When do we know how to leave when do you know how to leave you're in Israel now from the outside it looks like oh my gosh how are you going to be okay how is anyone going to be okay.

[14:14]How do we know when to leave how do you decide this is the best question I think and I was talking to my partner my husband the father of my children by the way.

[14:28]Let's talk about men because I feel so bad for them because if if nature I'm sorry for the gender thing but you know when you're in war it's so obvious.

[14:43]That they need he needs a gun now okay he needs a gun now not for revenge not for you know some politics not for he needs a gun now to protect his family and he doesn't have a gun.

[15:01]So he's watching the news all day long and I'm in the place of you know my gun as a mom is.

[15:12]Joy and baking and music and you know volunteering with my children in getting things for people that just ran from their homes without shoes you know and.

[15:31]I was telling him listen we didn't have a word since this war began because we're taking care of people small people big people people that need help I just need to know.

[15:48]That's when the time for us to run away will come you will tell me this is your zone because as an optimist this is my job if if you want to take care of children if you want to really be the good narrator you can't think of the option.

[16:12]That's something will go wrong and I was talking day before yesterday I had a meeting with and this was so surreal we went over for me to talk to all the mothers of kibbutz berry which is a one of the the kibbutz him who suffered from everything really it's it was it was.

[16:42]monsters and they never survived just you know where they were evacuating to that dead sea to a hotel and you step into a tacky hotel and you see a kibbutz you know people with dogs and mothers with babies and it's like the opposite.

[17:13]Something is wrong with a picture and when I said down with the moms that the narration that kept on showing up is the mind not being able to grasp all these hours that they were inside the shelters with the children.

[17:40]The the man some of them were out there with guns some of their were just you know just stayed out to to see if the terrorists are moving in close and.

[17:59]And they were saying we never thought this could happen you know we are living in an area that we had rockets and this is a heaven on earth place and our children were born here we were born here.

[18:19]And the shelters are you know the men are getting gadget or the shelters all day long you know she said it's like your man with their vehicles or jeeps or whatever they're they're so proud of the shelters and I'm taking my three children to the shelter.

[18:43]And then I hear a song and they just in five seconds they drill a hole and I see the gun of and I'm smiling to my children and we're facing the wall just you know so the bullets will miss us.

[19:02]And then I smell that they're burning my house and my husband is not there so and she's talking about it like you're talking about you know you going shopping for cheese.

[19:14]And she says so I take my camera and I take the photos out of the balcony to see if there are terrorists outside and I understand that I can't say in the shelter because we'll be burned.

[19:28]so I tell the children listen we need to jump from the third floor.

[19:34]So let's play again and it's going to be okay and all I'm thinking about is once we jump how do I run that they don't get me so she jumps with her three children and one of them you know.

[19:51]has his two legs broken and there's a man coming to help her because he was at the balcony just.

[20:00]watching for his family. So he runs over just to pick her 11 year old son and to run with him

[20:07]and she's telling her small daughter to close her eyes because everything is full of buddy and

[20:15]buddies and she sees you know friends from her kindergarten just lying there and they run

[20:22]and then they get on the bus and then someone shoots on the bus and more stories

[20:28]and more stories and more stories and then you know she opens her phone and she she shows me the

[20:36]the we have what's up here so there's groups of you know moms or moms uh soccer moms ballet

[20:45]moms and she shows me the list of you know the ballet class only two girls are living uh the

[20:55]ballet teachers that does is that the kindergarten teachers that how do I tell my five year old

[21:02]daughter that you know the entire he boots was wiped off when I was still holding her inside the

[21:12]shelter and telling her that we're playing again so you know and this is happening in 2023

[21:22]what was so terrible it's unbelievable I mean it's like they are all in shock still also right

[21:34]isn't it the brain's protective mechanism yeah sure the the the the parents the children are

[21:40]it's amazing to to watch the children because you can see a couple of things you can see that

[21:48]you can see children that have been given the present of you know resilience there's there's

[21:58]no other one and they're cautious but they can play and they can laugh they can take a couple of

[22:10]steps away from the mother and you see the ones that have no nothing just emptiness and I was asking

[22:24]before we came over if there's anything they need that we need to because they get everything you know

[22:32]this is also this is you know it's it's not just the fact that I believe that any person anyone

[22:45]who has ever gave birth to children and cared about helpless creatures even animals by the way they

[22:55]left animals the children are talking about their cat and their you know every every person all you

[23:04]want to do is just help and the the the the the unity of you know humankindness and the open heart

[23:18]and the so many good people you know just just surrounding them so they practically have everything

[23:30]because you know you can take care of shoes for children or whatever but we were having a Zoom

[23:38]conversation the other night with another evacuated area and they started raising the issue of

[23:51]you know small children that's how do you say got rid of the diaper toilet training this is it

[23:58]yeah so they were they were free they were trained they were and they were regressing back

[24:06]to wedding their beds and and I was telling the moms that it's it's it's not a good thing to to bring

[24:15]back the diapers because maybe they will feel that it's a failure and that we need to be somehow glad

[24:26]that you know regression is happening because we don't want to see the full blown regression of nothing

[24:37]or of muteness by the way a lot of kids stop speaking and we don't want to see the everything is

[24:47]okay the we want to see something you know regressing in order for joy joy to exist or you know

[25:00]heavy emotions or tantrums or being on the edge or being angry at

[25:10]silly things or wedding the bed in order for this to ventilate so I was just giving proportions and

[25:20]saying that it's all it's a good thing and they just need to give space for it and when I was

[25:30]talking to this mom she said listen they evacuated us as they said tell and there's nothing

[25:39]we can put on the beds and all the children all ages are wedding the beds so we needed to anyway

[25:50]I brought like 200 sheets special sheets of four beds and oh my goodness I so appreciate you

[25:57]telling us here what is going on there I am so honored to talk to you who is there literally

[26:05]comforting the people going through the most unspeakable things that you are speaking of

[26:11]the work you do is godly it's amazing and anything that we all can do to help you to help other

[26:20]people there just know that we are fully behind you and you know we're just here for you and

[26:28]sending our life I think that I think that the biggest presence of all and it comes from adversity

[26:36]at any size okay the biggest present is to understand what kindness really means and you know

[26:48]and to just to be able to practice some self-compassion this is it because when you say I'm grateful

[26:57]and when you talk about me helping I don't feel like I'm helping but you do you see what I'm saying

[27:05]I know but this conversation is helping the helper that you know and a mother that was running

[27:14]with her kids without shoes she is helping someone else and I think that the and this is something

[27:25]that that is universal as long as we can feel like we can take care of someone and someone can

[27:38]take care of us you know it's a chain and then everything is okay because we are all somehow connected

[27:49]the big fear is to be left alone this is the hostage situation this is I can't even begin to talk

[27:59]about this no so you see the relativity of it all and it doesn't take an expert you know because

[28:09]when your friend is coming in the middle of the night crying knocking at your door you don't say

[28:16]listen I need to consult someone about what how to comfort you know it's it's not it's the look it's

[28:24]the eyes it's the it's the oh my god tell me this is it and it's all that our children need so

[28:36]instead of protecting them isolating them thinking that our job is you know to do something

[28:45]for them or to to to take away negative emotions or to you know shield shield them from anything

[28:56]it's not we just need to to mediate it in a human way so beautiful thank you thank you for coming

[29:08]on the show thank you for sharing thank you for enabling this conversation please stay in touch

[29:15]please keep us posted me posted whatever you know whatever I'm here I'm sending love thank you so

[29:22]much okay okay thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books

[29:32]don't forget to follow me on instagram at zibi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books

[29:37]also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots

[29:42]of authors on zoom every other week thanks so much to Steve and Ryan back texture sound for the

[29:46]sound editing and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and

[29:51]now trim music