Jane Wong, MEET ME TONIGHT IN ATLANTIC CITY: A Memoir
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[1:03]Jane Wang is the author of Meet Me Tonight in Atlantic City, a memoir.
[1:07]Jane Wang's debut memoir Meet Me Tonight in Atlantic City is out now from Tinhouse.
[1:12]She is also the author of Two Poetry Collections, How Not To Be Afraid of Everything, and Over
[1:16]Poor.
[1:17]A restaurant baby, she grew up in a Chinese American takeout restaurant on the Jersey
[1:21]Shore and is an associate professor at Western Washington University, where she teaches
[1:26]creative writing and Asian American literature.
[1:29]She is also an interdisciplinary artist, and her most recent exhibition was Nourish
[1:33]at the Richmond Art Gallery in 2022.
[1:36]Welcome Jane, thanks so much for coming on Momstone, have time to read books, to discuss
[1:40]Meet Me Tonight in Atlantic City.
[1:42]Thanks, Zippy.
[1:43]I'm so excited to be here.
[1:44]Oh, okay.
[1:45]Give you tell listeners a little bit about your memoir, and even why are you just added
[1:50]to write a memoir to begin with?
[1:51]That's a great question.
[1:53]Oh, goodness.
[1:54]I'm a poet, kind of, I guess, like, I don't know.
[1:57]In my deepest heart, I suppose, and so writing memoir was pretty scary for me, moving
[2:02]into nonfiction, because you can't hide behind the metaphor, I suppose.
[2:07]So the book kind of began as kind of an extension of my poems.
[2:11]I think a little bit of the stories that I hit in within them.
[2:14]I kind of really fleshed out and given more breath, given more space to Rome.
[2:20]And I guess how I would try to describe like what the memoir is, is a bit of a love song,
[2:26]I suppose, to my mother, for sure.
[2:29]But also what it means to kind of grow up, you know, low income, working class, you know,
[2:35]Chinese American immigrant baby, and trying to make do with what you have.
[2:40]And certainly the story kind of starts with my father's gambling addiction and the time
[2:46]he spent in Atlantic City, which I just spent time in Atlantic City this past week.
[2:52]It was my first time going back in over 20 years.
[2:55]Oh my gosh.
[2:56]It was really emotional and kind of what happens to our family as a result of really
[3:01]this desire to kind of make something of someone's life, the American dream, all of that,
[3:07]coming crashing down and rebuilding and resilience.
[3:10]And what happens to, I guess, adults me too, I definitely didn't want this to be a book
[3:15]that was just situated in a very specific moment in time, but rather thinking about the
[3:20]past, the present in the future.
[3:22]So I do take some, I think some risks in memoir, such as creating a character who kind
[3:27]of exists in the future space.
[3:29]Her name is WongMom.com, but yeah, there's a lot in this book, but it's central core.
[3:35]Really truly.
[3:36]It's a love song to my mom, which everything is, I guess, that I write so well, you really
[3:44]write in such a gripping way.
[3:45]I mean, and it's no surprise that you're a poet because you're the way that you write
[3:51]each sentence even is just so beautiful.
[3:55]And the length of the sentence, like the construction of them, like it's all clearly
[4:00]very thought out.
[4:01]And I don't know.
[4:02]It was great.
[4:03]I read a lot more.
[4:04]And this was particularly on a sentence level, just like so done, that's from, I can't even
[4:10]make a sentence today.
[4:11]So there you go.
[4:12]That's contrast.
[4:13]But what struck me, you know, right away is, is you as a young girl just so sad, really,
[4:20]then watching your mom and trying to like understand that what is happening is perhaps
[4:27]not what is supposed to be happening, that you're not supposed to have your dad go for
[4:33]benders for days on end and have your mom just be on the beach with you and being like,
[4:38]I don't know where he is, trying to like have him pull him out and then him just disappearing
[4:43]basically from your life for so long and having to come to terms with that.
[4:47]You obviously go into your feelings, but it's not something that can be just like put aside
[4:51]lightly, right?
[4:52]Which is probably why you're still revisiting it now and going, you know, all of that.
[4:56]So tell me a little bit more about the sort of lingering effect of your, even your dad's
[5:02]relationship.
[5:03]And I know it's a little bit of letter to your mom, but you know, by contrast.
[5:05]Yeah.
[5:06]I think, you know, it's really interesting and thinking about, you know, my mother as
[5:12]my everything, you know, in my life.
[5:14]And I just recently spent a lot of time at home and I'm back in Seattle now, but to
[5:20]be in her garden space and to see all those vegetables, just like thriving and growing and
[5:26]what we can make out of something that I suppose was so difficult.
[5:30]You know, she was arranged to marry my father.
[5:32]He was a stranger to her and it was kind of her, you know, ticket out of, you know, the
[5:38]rural countryside in China and out of poverty really.
[5:42]And so when she came to the country, my father was this figure of like potential hope,
[5:48]you know, and what occurred obviously was a strange man and a lot of other, you know, really
[5:55]difficult things that she tried to, tried to shield me from, I think, as a young child.
[6:00]And so in many ways, I think my father becomes this, this character because in many ways,
[6:06]I don't know him, you know, I haven't had him in my life since I was a small child.
[6:11]And so what was really difficult, I think, in writing the memoir was to be, you know, honest
[6:18]and true and real about the damage that he's done to our family and what it means, what
[6:23]the strangement means, right, to a small child, but also to an entire family unit in
[6:28]terms of my own relationship later in life.
[6:31]There's a stream of terrible explorations in this memoir, I, you know, I was so worried
[6:37]about people being like, oh, she has daddy issues, right, which is so messed up in terms
[6:41]of being such a gendered idea in thinking about, you know, familial trauma.
[6:47]But yet, so I actually write about it directly because I was so afraid that people are going
[6:51]to just dismiss me as that when, in fact, it's so much more complicated than that.
[6:56]But I think that my father becomes this almost like larger than life character because
[7:01]he, you know, isn't in my life.
[7:03]And so again, the hardest thing was to be true and real about the kind of domino effect
[7:10]of what happens when he left our family, but also create a lot of empathy for him and
[7:15]a lot of forgiveness and a lot of care.
[7:18]At the end of the, you know, opening chapter, I do imagine strolling with him on the boardwalk
[7:24]when he's in his 90s and hoping for that reconciliation.
[7:28]And I think that that's, that's like what I can do.
[7:31]I think even though he's not in my life as a daughter, that I still, I still hold a lot
[7:37]of affection for him and care and hope for him and, you know, what life he's had for himself.
[7:43]So it's, it's an emotional ride.
[7:46]I will tell you that, you know, this, this memoir was incredibly vulnerable to, right?
[7:52]I thought to myself, you know, if I'm going to do this, I might as well give all
[7:56]of myself to it, mostly because I don't know, I don't know if I have another one in
[8:01]me.
[8:02]It's like what I'm trying to say.
[8:03]Like it was, it kind of took so much out of me, but also it gave so much back to me
[8:09]by the time I finished writing this and, you know, to record the audiobook for instance
[8:14]was so powerful since my mom can listen to it and, you know, it feels really special
[8:21]this is the first book she's read of mine even though I've had, you know, two collections
[8:25]of poetry before, but I think there's something about writing and prose that I think offers
[8:30]a bit more, I don't know, like it's a little more accessible in some ways in terms of like
[8:35]storytelling, a little more direct and even though, thank you for your kind words about
[8:39]the, the lyricism in, on the sentence level and I will say that I, I so badly wanted
[8:46]to write every sentence with me there and like, and read them and, and I had to like
[8:52]go up some of it because like it can't sustain every 300 pages, but I tried my best, but
[8:58]I also loved being back in scene and doing scene work and dialogue and, you know, even
[9:04]though, you know, this is nonfiction, there's still so much to do in terms of the multifaceted
[9:10]ways we can describe, you know, the characters or the real people in our lives, including
[9:14]myself, which was hard, but to kind of really take a close look at like who, who I am,
[9:20]who I've grown to be and will be again, I feel like there's so much in this book that is
[9:26]written all the way up to the immediate present to the degree in which I, I think I wrote
[9:31]up to the minute in my life until I handed my final, you know, notes to my editor, which
[9:37]is a big risk, I think, because memoir sometimes takes place in a, like a certain time
[9:43]in one's life, where's this one kind of went all the way up to the, to the minute, including
[9:48]my, you know, ex fiance, so I did the same thing.
[9:52]I wrote memoir book ends and every time it came back for like the final copy edits, I was
[9:57]like, I'm just going to write another paragraph.
[10:00]I have another thing or two here,
[10:02]because this is what's happened since, so yeah.
[10:04]I mean, it's great.
[10:05]It's like never ending in many ways to kind of like
[10:08]try to make the constellations,
[10:11]the connections from what's happening
[10:13]at this very moment to all the other kind of moments
[10:17]and scenes and memories that happen in the book
[10:21]as you're writing them.
[10:22]But I certainly feel like I,
[10:25]it almost feels like whatever 10 years from now,
[10:28]looking back at this, I wonder,
[10:30]you know, I wonder what I would think about
[10:33]this version of myself then too,
[10:34]because it's also a time capsule too in some ways as well.
[10:37]Well, to your point of if you're not sure you can do it again,
[10:40]I feel like once you tell, this is just my two cents,
[10:43]but once you tell that like fundamental thing
[10:45]that like you have to write about,
[10:47]then subsequent memoirs become,
[10:50]unless there's another life changing thing that happens, right?
[10:53]Then you're not compelled ready.
[10:55]Like it has to be something like, like your dog,
[10:59]or it's a different lens completely, right?
[11:02]I relationship with dogs or something,
[11:04]but that's not like a memoir in the same way as these,
[11:07]I don't know.
[11:08]So I feel like there's always one fundamental memoir
[11:10]in person, like of their whole like root
[11:13]and then there can be subsequent.
[11:15]You know, I like that the roots and yeah,
[11:18]the kind of tendrils that go viral out into another sprout.
[11:23]I like that.
[11:24]Yeah.
[11:25]There we go.
[11:26]Okay, tendrils and sprouts.
[11:27]We're on a roll here.
[11:28]Oh, no, the poet, the weird poet, I always do this.
[11:32]I always, to always like, you know,
[11:34]talk in these like, you know, strange metaphors and.
[11:38]No, yeah.
[11:39]Well, you also, though, taught me a lot
[11:40]because I've been to Atlantic City a couple times actually
[11:43]for my state at the revel when it was built.
[11:46]You wrote about that in the book.
[11:49]Actually went there once and I was pregnant
[11:50]and I like, I don't even ask it.
[11:52]I was like dragged there.
[11:53]So I spent the whole time like reading in my room,
[11:56]which was actually pretty because it was right on the water.
[11:59]So I just like sat on the bed and like beached well
[12:02]and read my book and that was it.
[12:04]But anyway, I had some good restaurants, I have to say.
[12:07]But anyway, I've been to Atlantic City.
[12:08]I did not know the history of why boardwalks
[12:11]were even boardwalks with the wood planks
[12:12]and how they used to come off at night
[12:14]and get stored away.
[12:16]And it was so that taxi drivers and like cars
[12:18]didn't have to get sand in them from the beach.
[12:21]That's so cool.
[12:22]Like who thought of that?
[12:23]I mean, I don't know.
[12:24]I never even known that.
[12:25]And I not read your book.
[12:27]So there you go.
[12:28]So I like how you mixed in sort of the rise and fall
[12:31]if you will of Atlantic City with your own narrative.
[12:35]Oh, yes.
[12:36]I feel like that city in particular.
[12:38]And again, I just returned after 20 odd years
[12:42]to Atlantic City, which I will say was such a homecoming.
[12:46]Like it was so generous.
[12:47]I feel like my entire memory or kind of like,
[12:51]I don't know, has been like changed a bit
[12:54]as a result of this most recent visit
[12:56]because it was like kind of a surprise.
[12:59]You know, like we went when we went there.
[13:01]Obviously my father was being brought there
[13:03]to kind of like, you know, gamble to be
[13:05]we get like free hotel rooms.
[13:07]And it was just kind of this, you know,
[13:10]really predatory act on behalf of casinos to target
[13:14]specifically, I feel like low income Asian American families.
[13:18]And so, you know, as a kid, we didn't have much money
[13:22]and my father was going into debt.
[13:24]And so my mom never let me play any boardwalkings.
[13:28]And it was so sad cause you imagine like just being kid
[13:30]and just like walking down the boardwalk
[13:32]and being like, no ice cream for you, no like.
[13:35]And so cause we just didn't have some money.
[13:39]And my mom was like, we can't waste it on that.
[13:41]We need to, you know, use it for food and you know.
[13:44]And so going back just last week on to the boardwalk
[13:49]and finally my mom giving me a food dollar bill
[13:52]and playing like the claw game and like boardwalk games.
[13:56]It was the cutest thing.
[13:58]And it was one of those moments where like the whole city
[14:01]has changed for me in my mind.
[14:02]It's like, now I feel like it's, you know, that, you know,
[14:06]so many wonderful, I met so many wonderful people
[14:08]in Atlantic City or trying to really continue the tradition
[14:11]of, you know, a lot of the restaurants that are still there
[14:14]and to be so proud to be from a place that's both very gritty,
[14:18]you know, but also at the same time, like still holds a lot
[14:21]of, you know, beauty and the ocean, you know,
[14:24]the ocean's still there.
[14:25]And I think that that's just so special.
[14:28]But yeah, it was, it was a hard memory.
[14:30]I couldn't go into the Caesar's Palace.
[14:32]Like I just stood there.
[14:34]And that's the one that my father went through the most.
[14:36]And they put us up.
[14:37]Mighty writers, a wonderful organization
[14:40]that supports young writers invited me out.
[14:43]And my mom, too, Atlantic City, and they put us up in the Tropicana.
[14:48]And to walk through the casino, it was pretty emotional,
[14:51]but it definitely was, you know, we decided my mom and I decided
[14:55]to play the slot machine just once, because we've never gambled,
[14:59]neither of us have ever gambled before.
[15:01]And just to kind of almost like clear the,
[15:04]but just try, we were trying to really make this art story versus my father.
[15:09]So anyway, yes, the rebel.
[15:11]All the history, did a lot of research.
[15:13]Wait, what happened?
[15:14]Did you win the game?
[15:16]Oh, that's not.
[15:17]We didn't even know how to play.
[15:19]It was kind of embarrassing.
[15:20]I was waiting for like, and then we hit the jackpot.
[15:22]No, we had a full circle moment.
[15:24]No, we lost $3.
[15:27]But we couldn't even figure out how to play.
[15:30]Like it was too many lights, too many.
[15:31]We literally were staring at it.
[15:33]It was like, how are people doing this?
[15:35]Like we don't know what to do.
[15:37]And so we just left and, you know, got ice cream or something like that.
[15:40]But it was cute.
[15:41]It was a really powerful return.
[15:44]But I can't believe you stayed at the rebel.
[15:46]That's, yeah.
[15:48]It's a win.
[15:49]It's a win.
[15:50]Oh, my gosh.
[15:51]Yeah, it was not that far from New York, you know?
[15:53]It's great for an escape and anyway, too funny.
[15:57]So tell me about the act of actually like sitting down and writing this.
[16:02]Did you cry?
[16:03]Did you like, what was it like?
[16:04]Where did you do it?
[16:06]How long did it take you?
[16:07]Like, give me the, give me a mental picture of it.
[16:11]Yeah, yeah.
[16:12]The book began as essays, like there are a few singular essays that were now,
[16:18]now chapters, I think I began this in 2017.
[16:22]So not too long ago, but a chunk ago.
[16:25]And it really began with me to Night Atlantic City.
[16:29]But also, you know, the cheat sheet for restaurant babies, too,
[16:32]was kind of an early one as well.
[16:34]And I was writing these kind of singular essays
[16:37]at the time with like this hope of finding a way to braid them later.
[16:41]I suppose, and it was a little intimidating for me.
[16:43]I think as someone who's coming from a poetry background,
[16:46]and I was realizing I was like, I have pages, like I have space.
[16:50]I can kind of, you know, put in research.
[16:52]And so for me, it was really the, the light to be able to kind of like take my time.
[16:58]You can write a poem in a day, even write a poem in an hour, if you really want to,
[17:01]or maybe 15 minutes, but you certainly can't write it as a chapter of a memoir
[17:06]in that short period of time, it's just not doable.
[17:09]So that started kind of there.
[17:11]And I, you know, when I kind of worked with 10 house on the book later,
[17:16]it was like December of 2021, the only like 90 pages of the book were written.
[17:24]And so I wrote the rest of it really, very quickly.
[17:27]And it's funny when I think about how long the first 90 pages kind of took
[17:32]and then like what happens later is that it was all in my, you know,
[17:35]my head in my heart, like it was like pouring out of me.
[17:38]It was, it was kind of so visceral.
[17:40]I definitely avoided certain chapters of the harder ones.
[17:46]I saved the hardest ones to write last, you know.
[17:49]And so I feel like I saved the object of love last, certainly the last chapter
[17:55]to even writing about writing that was hard, which is funny because I make all my
[17:59]students write about writing.
[18:00]And so it was definitely a lot of, yeah, definitely a lot of crying,
[18:05]but also a lot of laughing.
[18:06]I actually, I probably laughed more than I cried while writing this book
[18:10]because I just wanted to give myself that like joy of some of the goofy,
[18:15]goofy moments in the book.
[18:17]There was a lot of phone calls with fam, like my mom, certainly.
[18:22]Sometimes when I was stumped to write like a particular moment or scene,
[18:26]I would just call her and then I would just ask her a very, very broad question,
[18:31]which was tell me something I don't know.
[18:33]And you would just like be like, Oh, you know, this happened to me.
[18:36]And then I would write it in like into literally whatever I was like stumped on.
[18:41]And so that happened a lot.
[18:42]I ate a lot of snacks while writing this book.
[18:46]I feel like I'm the type of writer who has to have like about like five different
[18:51]bowls of like snacks when I'm writing.
[18:54]And while I like to think, I like to write on a desk or anything,
[18:57]I always write in bed.
[18:59]And so it actually becomes quite messy.
[19:01]I'll be honest, because you're just like, there's cheese.
[19:03]It's like in my bed.
[19:06]That's me writing the book, ultimately, it's like, you know, writing in bed,
[19:09]which is again, not great for my back or anything.
[19:12]But for some reason, I am drawn to this like cozy space.
[19:17]I've tried writing, I sometimes write on a desk, but it's just not my thing.
[19:21]And a lot of the things that happened while writing the book is very immersive.
[19:26]And so for instance, I, you know, when I was writing the end of to love a mosquito
[19:31]and I didn't know how to end that particular chapter about my brother, I did,
[19:36]I called him up and I said, I love him.
[19:39]And I ended it that way by actually calling him and telling him, I love him,
[19:44]which is something I've never set out loud to him.
[19:47]Like, you know, and so it was like sometimes writing the book was like, again,
[19:51]like calling my mom, call me brother was to make it happen.
[19:54]Like, there was a lot of immersive writing as well.
[19:57]So, but immersive writing snacks.
[20:00]research, poetry, all those things. And sometimes, sometimes a glass of wine, yes.
[20:08]The truth comes out. Why does it get you to the line of peace and it's get with it?
[20:13]Yes. Well, that's amazing. Tell me about the tour you just got back from. Where did you go?
[20:19]And what was it like? And were there questions asked that really stumped you? Or was there
[20:24]something you found yourself really loving talking about? Or just tell me what was expected?
[20:29]Not expected? Thanks, David. I feel like it's been kind of a blur. I was a little bit of everywhere,
[20:35]obviously here in the Pacific Northwest, Seattle, Portland, Spellingham where I teach.
[20:41]And I went to the Bay Area L.A. Iowa City, which was kind of a fun but intense return, I guess,
[20:49]back to where I did my MFA at Iowa. And of course, like my New York, you know, New Jersey kind of
[20:57]part of the tour too. I think the most emotional part of the tour was definitely this ladder
[21:02]half in New York City and New Jersey at a few readings in Brooklyn and New York City's Chinatown.
[21:10]And again, Atlantic City, Jersey City. And I will say that being in New York City's Chinatown at
[21:15]U and Me books was really emotional because I used to go to Chinatown all the time as a kid. And
[21:20]reading at this beautiful, you know, Asian American owned bookstore, you and me was like,
[21:25]it was so cozy, you know? And I feel like the whole vibe of that particular reading got really
[21:32]a vulnerable immediately. And some of the questions were really in conversations were about kind of
[21:38]like writing from, you know, archives that are incomplete. And it got deep really quickly, I think
[21:44]that conversation, which was so moving. Obviously, as I mentioned, Atlantic City visit was like
[21:48]phenomenal. Actually, you know, mighty writers, they hosted me and they actually had a use group
[21:54]who does a lot of traditional Chinese dances, dynasty alliance. And a bunch of like young,
[22:01]young people like did a dragon dance and fan dance. It was so on behalf of the book. And it felt like
[22:08]just such a, you know, generous kind of event. But I will say that I have to say give a shout out,
[22:15]I think the whole tour, the highlight for sure is having my mom on tour with me for some of it.
[22:21]So she came out to Elliott Bay bookstore in Seattle, where I live and she launched with me as my
[22:27]one of my conversation partners. And I will say that the end of their reading, I didn't cry,
[22:33]the whole reading. I somehow made it through. And at the end, I got emotional because my,
[22:38]my best friend Michelle Panilosa, who also hosted me at Elliott Bay, asked a question about labor
[22:44]and work. And the book is also a lot about work. Like, yeah, it's fundamental core. And I started
[22:51]to cry because I was like, my mom still, you know, works night shift at the USPS. And I, you know,
[22:57]I was just like, she's, you know, I worry about her all the time, like work over working herself.
[23:03]And so she stops me. And she says, like, mommy is strong. Don't forget that. And she literally
[23:09]picks me up, literally, physically picks me up and spins me around her just like massive muscles.
[23:16]And she's like, I'm strong. Don't worry about me. And like everybody just started screaming.
[23:22]It was like, it was so emotional. And she's such a hand. She's so funny. And so she was my
[23:29]conversation. So she was on tour with me in Seattle, but also in my Jersey events. So she was there.
[23:35]And then she was kind of like a mini. As she should be, moms are celebrities. So it was very special
[23:42]to have her on stage with me for quite a few events. So that's definitely a highlight for sure.
[23:47]Wow. That is so special. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. The other day saw this man like on top of a ladder,
[23:53]like trimming this bush or like doing something with the electrical valves. I don't know what was
[23:58]going on, but he was all like hunched over. And I'm like, this is so awful that this is the state of
[24:03]our country that you have to keep working at the end of your life, essentially. I mean, it's just,
[24:09]anyway, it was one of those moments. It's really hard because, you know, as somebody,
[24:14]and the book really kind of speaks to a lot of my discomfort with my upward mobility too.
[24:20]I'm a professor. And, you know, there's one chapter. Oh my gosh, the name of it. Snow, gloom,
[24:26]lane, pandemic, gloom of night. It's this, you know, it's the idea that obviously the
[24:31]postal service delivers no matter what. And there's something about like at the very beginning of
[24:37]lockdown and the pandemic where I could work from home. I had the privilege to work from home,
[24:42]even though it was difficult, of course, teaching online. But my mom was not, you know, she's
[24:49]an essential worker. She had to go to the facility. And I was so worried about, you know, masking
[24:54]and everything. I was, and you know, I somehow got my vaccine before she was eligible to get her
[25:00]vaccine. And it just, it just like all of that. So yes, like I feel a lot of deep feelings about
[25:06]what it means to be, you know, the daughter of somebody who's clearly worked so hard and so many
[25:13]physical, physical labor. And yet here I am, you know, feeling so, you know, privileged in what it
[25:19]means to have this education and to be able to write. My mom is the original writer. She's the
[25:24]original poet because she's a storyteller, right? But she, because I'm the first of my family to
[25:30]even graduate traditional high school, it's like, you know, who was able to actually be a writer
[25:35]in terms of, you know, language skills and, you know, the privilege to kind of have that time
[25:41]to write. I don't know. I think about that a lot. And I think about what it means to kind of follow
[25:47]your creative desires as a working parent. And I know for a fact that she's, you know, now I think
[25:55]making a lot of space for that for her own life. Because, you know, her kids are growing and what
[26:00]not. And she's, she's now like, she's, all her time is spent in the garden. All her time is like
[26:05]spent hanging out with friends storytelling. But she's never written. So it's, it's on paper,
[26:11]you know, but she's a storyteller. So I want to really emphasize, I really think that writing is not,
[26:17]is about storytelling at the end of the day. It's, it's all for me coming from a family of oral
[26:22]storytellers. Like it's, it, to me, yes, I wrote it down on paper, but these are not all my stories,
[26:29]you know? So I think about that a lot. But yeah. Well, Jane, congratulations. So exciting. Thank
[26:37]you for sharing those details with me and the listeners and everything. So congratulations and
[26:44]no pressure to write another one. You go back to do whatever you love and keep being a poet
[26:49]and all that great stuff. So that means a lot. Thank you for your generosity and just like
[26:57]sharing a bit about your own kind of, I don't know, journey to, you know, as a, as a writer,
[27:03]but also as a person just like moving through the world, I feel like it's like such a,
[27:07]oh, bewildering time, I think. And I feel like if anything writing or doing anything creative
[27:13]has kept me really grounded in like, I don't know, seeing what's beautiful, even when there's
[27:18]something so terrifying in the world. So I don't know, I definitely, I will always be writing poems,
[27:24]you know, but I, I'm dreaming up, I'm dreaming up other things, maybe even a novel. I don't
[27:29]know. I'm always tinkering with things. I also do ceramics. So I'm definitely going to do
[27:35]more of that this year. But yeah, just thank you so much for all your beautiful questions and
[27:40]for reading. And yeah, you're welcome. All right. Have a great day. Thanks so much. Bye, Jane. Bye.
[27:50]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:54]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[27:58]Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club
[28:03]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures
[28:08]Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[28:12]fantastic intro and now trim music.