Kate Flannery, STRIP TEES: A Memoir of Millennial Los Angeles
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30 minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
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[0:21]memoir.
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[1:03]Kate Flannery is the author of Stripties, a memoir of millennial Los Angeles.
[1:07]And if you're interested in seeing her in the flesh or live or whatever you want to call
[1:11]it, she was just at Zippy's bookshop and you can check out the live stream of the event
[1:16]I did with her there.
[1:17]Kate Flannery was born and raised in Northeastern Pennsylvania.
[1:20]She holds a BA in creative writing from Bryn Mawr College and currently works for the Emmy
[1:24]award winning RuPaul's Drag Race.
[1:26]She is the lead singer in front woman for LA's premiere, Little Richard Trippied Band called
[1:31]Big Dick.
[1:32]Stripties is her first book.
[1:34]And I had to read that bio out loud in the bookstore and was equally mortified doing so.
[1:39]Welcome Kate.
[1:40]Thank you so much for coming on mom and I'm starting to have time to read books to discuss
[1:43]Stripties, a memoir of millennial Los Angeles.
[1:46]Thank you for having me.
[1:48]Oh, it's my pleasure.
[1:50]I literally have been like toting this book or anything for a long time because all I wanted
[1:55]to do is read it.
[1:56]Like it, it went in the pile where I had to read it, you know what I mean?
[1:59]But ever since I saw the cover and read what it was about and I love LA so much and
[2:04]I've driven by that American merrill store so many times until it was gone.
[2:07]Anyway, I couldn't wait to read it and it was so interesting and so good.
[2:11]So thank you for writing it.
[2:13]I feel like I went on the whole journey with you.
[2:15]I'm like your career and all of that so it was great.
[2:18]So much.
[2:19]Thank you.
[2:20]I really, really appreciate that.
[2:21]It's a love letter to Los Angeles for sure, but I really love people connecting with
[2:26]it as such an unexpected surprise.
[2:28]I mean, I'd hoped they would, but I didn't realize how gratifying it would be to have
[2:32]people like this really spoke to me or I understood this story or I was there.
[2:35]I saw some of it myself or I know that store.
[2:38]I also think this whole genre of kind of coming of age through your career books is
[2:47]something I find just so fascinating and I'm so excited.
[2:51]So instead of just like, I traveled the world or something, like we get to dive in and
[2:55]watch how you grow up in the context of your job, which of course is like a much bigger
[3:01]commentary on society and so I just love it.
[3:04]It's like just such an experiential thing where you feel like you not only get your emotions
[3:11]but your job.
[3:12]I love it.
[3:13]But thank you.
[3:14]Thank you so much.
[3:15]That was, you know, I think these books are popular because, you know, the office is the
[3:21]thing of the past.
[3:22]You know, we're on to start up culture.
[3:24]It's a wild, weird world with full of risk-taking and bad behavior and breaking up the rules
[3:31]and it makes such a good read.
[3:33]Yeah.
[3:34]But on Valley, you know, all of those books, yeah, they're great.
[3:38]So maybe you should describe the book for listeners since I just dove right into the
[3:42]things I liked.
[3:43]It's called Stricties, a memoir of millennial Los Angeles and it's about my time working
[3:49]for a very controversial and provocative fashion company called American Apparel in the
[3:55]mid 2000s.
[3:57]So we're talking a decade before me too, which really doesn't seem that long ago.
[4:02]But it may as well have been, you know, a totally different century because it was just
[4:06]a very different time.
[4:07]The company itself, American Apparel operated under a very progressive veil.
[4:13]Everything was made in the USA.
[4:14]It felt good to work there.
[4:16]It was seemingly run by women.
[4:19]And I was fresh out of a seven-sister, you know, a total feminist warrior out of Brynmar
[4:24]College.
[4:25]And you know, nobody was going to get me.
[4:27]We were in a post-feminism world, you know, Gloria Steinem fixed all that stuff.
[4:31]So when I saw this risque, wild company that was fighting the good fight, it was so compelling
[4:39]to me.
[4:40]And that time period, that turn of the millennium was just a very different time because
[4:47]we were post-9-11, we were post-8s epidemic, we were living in this, you know, celebrity
[4:55]sex tape, playboy spread, sort of like the girls had gone wild.
[5:02]And young women really had to tow the line between sexual empowerment and sexual exploitation.
[5:09]And that's sort of the story of Striptease, that line.
[5:14]So yeah, that's my book.
[5:17]Well, you paint this very unsavory picture of any parent that dove or dove, like the bird,
[5:25]like the bird probably wrote that in the book.
[5:27]And I forgot, but anyway, dove.
[5:29]And his, essentially his affairs with many of the workers and maybe not affairs, but
[5:33]relationships.
[5:34]And that's, it was some accepted thing.
[5:37]And you, in the book, you gradually see how like all these things, you're like, well,
[5:42]okay, maybe that's a little weird.
[5:44]Whatever.
[5:44]I guess this is how it's supposed to be.
[5:46]And I guess this is how these, it's not that big a deal to watch people having sex
[5:50]in the dressing room.
[5:51]And like, you know, like, you could see rationalizing like every next step and seeing
[5:55]how you kind of got deeper and deeper and then of course contrasting that with like
[5:58]your opening image of like the girl in the cult.
[6:01]And what it means to sort of be in a company cult, if you will.
[6:04]It's true.
[6:05]It was very culty in a way, like we're still in the cult.
[6:09]A lot of the girls in the book are still with dove Charlie, like in relationships with
[6:13]him or have, you know, it's, I was very naive about that.
[6:17]And in a way, I'm still in the cult because I'm like, what's dove going to say?
[6:22]You know, like, who cares what dove, like he should be word, what I'm going to say.
[6:25]But it's just so easy to, to slip back into those, into those roles.
[6:30]I'm just experiencing a lot of blowback now because my friends are starting to read it and
[6:34]people I wrote about are starting to read it.
[6:37]And those cult dynamics, man, they'll getcha 20 years later.
[6:42]It's still sort of easy to sneak into and dove, you know, working for him felt good.
[6:49]He was charismatic as well as problematic.
[6:52]He was fun to be around.
[6:55]It was fun to work with someone with a huge vision that was changing the world and still
[6:58]making the profit.
[7:00]You know, I just, I thought like ethical capitalism was a thing that we were doing here.
[7:05]We were going to make money and everybody was going to be fairly treated and that's just
[7:08]not how capitalism works.
[7:10]But then again, I was 24, you know, hopefully now I'd be a little smarter, but you can
[7:14]still have a company that treats people well and is profitable.
[7:18]That's not misleading, but maybe not this company.
[7:22]Yes.
[7:23]It's a shame because he showed you can make in the USA.
[7:26]You can give your employees, you know, not only a fair wage, but benefits and free English
[7:32]lessons and massages and you can still be a billion dollar company.
[7:36]And, but unfortunately, he just took it all down himself with his, you know, or a bad
[7:41]behavior.
[7:42]I mean, that's a nice way of putting it.
[7:45]But I just wish the company could have held on and then a model for so many other companies
[7:50]to bring back those jobs, bring back union jobs, bring back jobs where people can make a dignified
[7:55]living.
[7:56]You know, American apparel proved you could do it for factory workers anyway.
[8:00]Speaking of modeling, you, one of your things as you grew in the company was becoming a
[8:05]scout because you have this eye for new talent and all of that and, and even this modeling
[8:11]yourself in inadvertently perhaps, but having all the women who work at American apparel
[8:17]become de facto models and whatever they're doing, even if they don't want it necessarily
[8:21]photographed.
[8:22]So tell me about how that affected your perceptions of sort of self image at the time.
[8:28]And if that's one of those things that stayed with you.
[8:30]Yeah.
[8:31]At that time, it was this real, again, that turned to the millennium that first five years.
[8:37]You know, there was a lot of like model worship happening, you know, like America's next
[8:41]top model was in its early seasons with such a huge hit, you know, celebrity culture
[8:46]and paparazzi.
[8:48]There just seemed to be such value in harnessing that, you know, I thought modeling would
[8:53]be like a feminist act.
[8:54]I'm getting paid.
[8:55]But like, really, it's just the same old game.
[8:58]You're just an object.
[8:59]Like you're not going to win that game, but I gave it a shot.
[9:02]I tried.
[9:03]And I got some great photos of myself from, you know, back in the day.
[9:07]So yeah.
[9:08]Where are they now?
[9:09]Oh my gosh.
[9:10]Well, in the book, you don't know because of the promo copy, but there is a 20 photo insert
[9:14]in there.
[9:15]No way.
[9:16]I'm so excited.
[9:17]It's sort of a little surprise in the hardcover.
[9:19]There's, you know, ads and and flyers, the obey your masturbator flyer that I took down.
[9:26]I knew I was going to write this book.
[9:27]And so I just approached it like a, you know, an anthropologist and I saved everything.
[9:32]So that those photos are going to be good.
[9:34]Oh my gosh.
[9:35]I can't wait.
[9:36]The downside of the galley, I guess.
[9:38]But yes, that is really exciting.
[9:41]Amazing.
[9:42]So you knew you were going to write this as a book, like tell me more about that.
[9:45]And like when did you know and how long did it take, like just tell me the book piece
[9:50]of this journey?
[9:51]Sure.
[9:52]It's an interesting story.
[9:54]I, because I always know I was going to write this book.
[9:56]I told everybody, I don't know where to look about this, nobody believed me.
[10:00]It took a while, but really it was when I took down,
[10:03]the store was flyer bombs.
[10:06]We were re-pasted with flyers
[10:08]about Johnny, they said,
[10:09]obey your master, beta, little pun.
[10:12]And it was very,
[10:13]I talked about it in the book.
[10:15]It's very early in my career there.
[10:17]And I remember, we were taking these flyers off.
[10:20]And I took one off and it was in perfect condition.
[10:23]It didn't get ripped.
[10:24]And I just thought I'm saving this.
[10:25]Like, I'm gonna write about this.
[10:26]Like, there's something here.
[10:28]As a young writer, I was always sort of wondering,
[10:32]like, what is the story that I was gonna tell?
[10:36]And that in that moment, I knew this was it.
[10:39]So I continued to take notes.
[10:42]When I would have a particularly insane conversation
[10:46]with Dove, I would go right to the back of the store
[10:48]and flip over a flyer and write down everything you said.
[10:51]Just, I mean, a lot of almost everything
[10:53]that he says is verbatim,
[10:55]because I wrote it down.
[10:58]So, okay, so the whole story.
[11:02]So I really had to wait till the company kind of folded
[11:05]before I could, I did try writing a fictionalized version.
[11:09]Just, you know, I was too close to the subject matter.
[11:11]Like, me too had to happen.
[11:13]All of that stuff had to happen.
[11:15]I work in reality television,
[11:17]which isn't necessarily like the most creatively
[11:19]gratifying field.
[11:20]I work in the editing department.
[11:21]So I'm not like writing the stories.
[11:23]But I just had this moment where I was like,
[11:25]I have to get back to myself.
[11:26]So I started, you know, back to what I love doing,
[11:29]which is writing.
[11:29]I started taking, you know, just community classes.
[11:32]And I started talking to writers there
[11:35]and somebody went and told me, you know,
[11:37]you can sell a memoir on a proposal.
[11:40]And I was like, oh my God.
[11:42]So audacious, like you can sell a book before you write it.
[11:46]I'm gonna try that.
[11:47]Like, I'm a nerd.
[11:48]I can write a damn good proposal.
[11:50]So I took a class on how to write a proposal
[11:54]and, you know, it included chapter summaries.
[11:56]I really had my story down,
[11:58]just from thinking about it all these years
[12:00]and sort of writing versions of it.
[12:02]And yeah, then I sold it on that proposal
[12:07]and I lost my mind for two years,
[12:09]but I came out with a book.
[12:11]And yeah, I always like to tell people that, you know,
[12:14]like you can sell non-fiction books on a proposal.
[12:16]And let me tell you, it's the only way I would have done it.
[12:18]I needed that deadline.
[12:19]Like, I needed to have signed a contract.
[12:22]You must finish this book.
[12:24]It was so helpful.
[12:25]So after you got the contract and you started writing,
[12:28]did you work closely with an editor at your publishing house?
[12:31]Or did you like, what was that like?
[12:33]I had an editor for really like understands pop culture
[12:36]and like really believed in it from the beginning.
[12:38]And my proposal was pretty strong.
[12:41]So I just, I wrote a first draft
[12:44]and I turned it in and then a month later
[12:47]he gave me around to notes.
[12:48]And that was that.
[12:49]I had two months to do that.
[12:52]I turned it in on Halloween, which is like such a symbol
[12:57]with a scary day, but I think it's exhilarating.
[13:01]And I'd say all in all the process took me
[13:05]like a year of heavy duty writing
[13:08]and like six months of worrying
[13:11]and then another six months of planning
[13:14]like the initial proposal stuff probably took six months.
[13:18]Were you also still working your day job?
[13:20]Oh yeah, I'm still working two full-time reality jobs
[13:25]sometimes overlapping.
[13:27]I work on RuPaul's Drag Race
[13:28]and I work on the amazing race.
[13:30]They're both really great shows and great jobs
[13:32]and very supportive, really great places to work.
[13:35]So yeah, I was working full-time and writing
[13:38]and it was crazy.
[13:40]And when you say you're editing now,
[13:41]do you mean you're editing the footage?
[13:43]Like you are in an editor bay and all that stuff
[13:45]or like tell me about your job now?
[13:47]Well, yeah, I'm sort of, well, it's interesting.
[13:49]At amazing race, I am like a deliverables manager.
[13:54]It's basically like a script supervisor in post.
[13:57]This is probably boring, but it's not.
[13:59]I'm really interested in this.
[14:01]I want you on the episode and I'm like,
[14:03]there's an accent missing over this,
[14:06]there's a lot of subtitles in amazing race.
[14:08]They're yelling, they're running around.
[14:11]So sometimes there will be misspellings
[14:13]or maybe the host will be pronouncing something wrong.
[14:16]I caught that before.
[14:18]I'm just sort of the last set of eyes
[14:19]to make sure everything is good for it has to network,
[14:24]which I love doing, like correcting grammar.
[14:26]Signing up.
[14:28]Laying, I love that.
[14:29]And for drag race, I listen,
[14:36]I basically just transcribed drag queens all day.
[14:38]I'm sure it's a union gig.
[14:41]I'm listening to their sit down interviews
[14:43]and like look for the good stuff,
[14:44]writing down everything they say, time coding,
[14:47]just stuff that editors need to build a show.
[14:50]So yeah, that's how I do it.
[14:51]It's great, anything.
[14:54]Sorry, I'm so interested because now I feel like
[14:56]I've just been on this whole road,
[14:57]like I care what happens with you
[14:59]and you're really, I really wanna know
[15:02]what you're doing knowing what you did.
[15:04]So tell me a little more about what you're gonna do
[15:09]about people not loving people who you write about
[15:12]not loving the content.
[15:13]Like how are you prepared for that?
[15:15]Are you prepared for that?
[15:17]And did you ever think like it's gonna be so hard for me?
[15:21]I'm just not gonna do it.
[15:22]I know you said you might,
[15:23]you thought about fiction, but yeah,
[15:25]I know I thought that everyone would be fine with this.
[15:29]I changed everybody's names.
[15:31]I changed details about where they came from,
[15:33]but really to the small core of people
[15:36]that was in this circle nearly 20 years ago,
[15:40]you could maybe sniff out who's who.
[15:42]And that's sort of an issue
[15:46]because one of the girls is really upset
[15:47]about what Dove is going to think.
[15:48]You're ruining my relationship with Dove,
[15:51]which is you are barking at the wrong tree
[15:53]with that argument with me.
[15:55]I thought everyone would be okay.
[15:57]I underestimated that.
[15:59]And also just another thing I totally underestimated
[16:02]is that just the act of writing a memoir is like a betrayal
[16:08]to the people that you're writing about.
[16:09]Just because of what it is,
[16:11]because it's so one-sided,
[16:13]because the insignificant details to me that I leave out
[16:17]or that I don't include,
[16:18]because they're not putting my story,
[16:19]maybe very significant details to someone else.
[16:22]And I'm just sort of presenting my side of the story.
[16:25]And no matter how much love I use to write about
[16:30]these girls who are still my friends,
[16:32]well, some of them up until recently,
[16:35]that's always gonna be like hurtful.
[16:38]And I can't, it feels like really ruthless
[16:41]and it's hard for me, it's very upsetting,
[16:44]but I'm dealing with it.
[16:46]Some friends have been incredibly supportive.
[16:48]Like, man, I knew that was happening, but I didn't know.
[16:52]I wish we were there for you more.
[16:54]Like, you know, it's made me closer with those friends too.
[16:59]I think that's one of those life things, you know,
[17:01]whether you're writing a memoir or getting divorced
[17:04]or, you know, all these things, people sort of grief,
[17:08]like people who surprise you,
[17:09]people, you never know who's gonna show up for you,
[17:12]who's gonna turn, because mostly it's a reflection
[17:15]on how they feel about something.
[17:17]It really has little to do with you personally.
[17:19]It's their own sort of mirror that then, you know,
[17:23]I mean, you know all this, but yeah, no,
[17:26]that's exactly what it is.
[17:27]You're one of my friends who's like talking me down every day.
[17:30]It's like, this might be therapy talk,
[17:33]but you said, you know,
[17:34]the only thing that you can control in life
[17:35]is how you react to things.
[17:38]So I can only control how I react to their reaction.
[17:43]And yeah, it's like a big learning lesson.
[17:45]I was very, I didn't realize, I was very naive
[17:49]about a lot of things.
[17:50]I feel like that's my brand now.
[17:52]I'm not even,
[17:53]I'm not even at the end of the book.
[17:55]I'm not even, when I'm writing it, it's crazy.
[17:59]Oh my gosh.
[18:01]Okay, this might not even be inappropriate question,
[18:02]but your hair is so cool.
[18:04]Is that natural or did you do that as a cool look thing?
[18:08]It's created in a lab, but I mean, it's my hair,
[18:10]but no, I want to be on of those old Italian women
[18:14]with a shock, and maybe I'll get there,
[18:16]but it's, yeah, it's super cool.
[18:20]But they have my friends, my friend's stepmom
[18:23]has like a shock of white hair like that naturally.
[18:26]So, yeah, I want something going for.
[18:29]Okay.
[18:30]So, have you written proposals for any other books?
[18:34]Like, what are you gonna do next?
[18:36]Well, I am cooking up my second book now,
[18:39]which is another memoir.
[18:40]And this one has more of a true crime element.
[18:43]And it takes place in my hometown.
[18:45]I'm here for the summer, doing a lot of research.
[18:48]And it's, I haven't really talked about it at all.
[18:52]I should I like spill beans.
[18:53]Sure.
[18:56]I'm used to sort of pitching things in TV terms.
[18:58]It's, it's my girl meets Paradise Lost,
[19:03]the documentary about this three.
[19:05]They were three teens accused of murder
[19:08]and the town went wild in a satanic panic,
[19:11]rumor panic that overtook the town.
[19:13]So it's a satanic panic, true crime,
[19:16]coming of age, story in a pre-internet world
[19:19]that I like long to be in and write about.
[19:22]So, yeah.
[19:23]Awesome.
[19:24]That's great.
[19:26]How much input did you have on the cover?
[19:29]Because this cover is just perfection wonderful.
[19:31]The publishing house is really great.
[19:33]They hold, they give you all kinds of options
[19:36]and that one was like clearly the winner.
[19:39]I wanted it to say American Apparel
[19:41]without having to write American Apparel on the cover.
[19:43]And it's just perfect.
[19:45]And it's so summery and she's wearing American Apparel.
[19:48]It's just perfect.
[19:50]Thank you.
[19:51]I like it too.
[19:51]I love it so great.
[19:53]And what types of books do you read
[19:54]when you're not busy writing and being on TV or do you like to read
[19:58]or even more like a TV person or?
[20:00]Yeah. Oh, no, I'm a reader for sure. In fact, I just recorded the audiobook and they were like,
[20:04]do you listen to audiobooks? And I said, no, and they went, you're a reader here.
[20:11]For sure. Well, I've been on a memoir only diet for like two years just reading every memoir.
[20:17]I can get my hands on. So I really do love reading nonfiction sort of continuing in that vein.
[20:22]Like I just ordered Page Boy, my time to read Page Boy, I just know that's like the memoir at the
[20:27]the summer. What else am I excited about? I just want to hold it to visit and they gave me like a
[20:33]stack of books. I'm reading my last innocent year. I'm reading all of them all at the same time.
[20:38]I'm reading die ket. I'm reading what else did I get there? Oh, I'm just about to start
[20:44]a kitty car, which I know is going to knock my socks off. So yeah, amazing. Awesome. So I know you've
[20:51]already given some advice, which was really useful for aspiring authors in terms of memoir proposals.
[20:56]What other advice either for the writing or proposal writing or the writing itself or navigating
[21:03]this launch? Any of it or all of it? Just spell what you've learned.
[21:08]I don't even know how I'm navigating this launch because I'm just taking each day by day.
[21:12]And so I thought I was going to love this part, but it's like kind of stressful.
[21:17]My main advice that I would give because I never could have finished this book and someone gave
[21:21]me this advice and I was like, oh, whatever. But man, were they right? And it's so obvious,
[21:26]but I'm like really alone wolf in like all aspects of my life. That's why I love writing because
[21:31]it's really a solitary activity. I can do it all my own and just being controlled.
[21:35]But when I was really struggling through that first draft, a woman said to me,
[21:40]do you have a writing group? And I was like, oh, a writing group. No, but you know what, maybe I
[21:45]should get one. And I found a wonderful group of women in New York City that we were meeting. This
[21:49]also was all happening during COVID, such a crazy time to sell a book and write a book and all that.
[21:54]And I met with them every week and I needed that weekly deadline and the encouragement and
[21:59]hearing what they were writing. It's just like that weekly salon. There's no way I could have
[22:05]finished my book. And anybody can do that. Like all you need is one other person and you just make
[22:09]a commitment. It sounds so easy, but it was so hard for me to do. That is when I started making
[22:15]progress for sure. Those weekly workshops. It's all about like Gretchen Rubin has all these
[22:21]personality types, you know? And like, I am like you, I need, I like to have accountability.
[22:26]Like for some things, like some things I'm fine, but things like I will like just not work out
[22:31]every in. If I don't have anybody, like I only work out if my friend is like waiting on the
[22:36]tennis court or something. So I think in different areas, we have to know when we need the extra
[22:41]encouragement. And it's so true. It's so true. Yeah. I'm sorry you've been stressed. It is
[22:48]stressful when books come out, especially deeply versatile ones. And you know, it's kind of a
[22:53]wild ride and it's very uneven and unexpected things happen. And no matter how much you prepare,
[23:00]you don't know what's going to happen when it comes out. And I don't know. I found myself,
[23:04]I wrote a memoir that came out last July and I was so emotional the month before it came out.
[23:09]Like I was like crying all the time. And I don't know. I was just like because I'd been thinking
[23:15]about it for so long and working on it. And then it was like coming out and it was out of my control.
[23:19]And that was scary too. So I don't know. I found myself just like in a very sort of sad place,
[23:24]even though it was the most exciting thing ever. So totally. It's also nice to be in my hometown
[23:31]and be with my family rather than in my apartment in LA sort of navigating all this because
[23:36]I mean, it's just so much easier when you have people to share everything with. So yeah,
[23:39]it's really tough. A lot trickier than I thought. You know that book before and after the book deal,
[23:44]the first thing is like, get a therapist. I'm not joking. We're going to need one like a consult.
[23:49]Your man is that right on. It's such a unique help. It's too hard. I love that big Courtney mom. She
[23:57]was on this podcast. Well, I have a bookstore in LA and you have to come to an event. I don't know if
[24:01]you planned your whole tour and everything, but I would love for you to come to an event there.
[24:04]I would love to. Yes, I know. It's in Santa Monica, right? Yeah. Yes. Oh, I would love to.
[24:09]West side one. Yes. Okay. Great. We'll follow up after this. Well, I'm really excited.
[24:16]It's really well written. Great story. It has like all the elements. It was just like an immersive
[24:23]wonderful read. And you know, I'm just totally like rooting for you now and feel in very
[24:28]invested. So, so even though some people might not, it might be tricky for some relationship,
[24:35]say I guarantee for the average reader. This is like a very pop net positive experience.
[24:40]It was important to tell this story. And that's the most important thing overall. Like,
[24:45]this story needs needed to be told. Yes, 100%. Even though at times it was totally unbelievable.
[24:51]I'm like, are you seriously? Story like told itself. That's it was sort of, I hate to say it's
[24:57]easy to write after all this, but I just wrote what happened. You know, yeah, not just to
[25:03]it. Not much to do it. Amazing. Okay. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on mom's no time to read
[25:08]bugs and thanks for his trip to use. Thank you so much for having me. It was so fun. Thank you.
[25:13]All right. Take care. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of mom's don't have time to read
[25:19]books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at the Be Owens and at mom's don't have time to read
[25:25]books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[25:30]lots of authors on zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for
[25:35]the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and