Breanne Mc Ivor, THE GOD OF GOOD LOOKS
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[1:03]Brianna McIver is the author of The God of Good looks and novel.
[1:07]Brianna is an award-winning writer, her short story collection where there are monsters
[1:10]was published in 2019.
[1:13]She holds degrees in English from the Universities of Cambridge and Edinburgh and has a certificate
[1:18]in advanced professional makeup artistry.
[1:21]She lives in her home country of Trinidad and Tobago.
[1:23]The God of Good looks is her debut novel.
[1:25]Welcome Brianna.
[1:26]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:27]On mom's don't have time to read books to discuss your novel The God of Good looks.
[1:32]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:34]I'm so excited to be here.
[1:35]Oh, thank you for joining.
[1:37]Can you please tell us, Nairs?
[1:39]What your book is about?
[1:40]Sure.
[1:41]So, Bianca Bringe, she has been publicly disgraced after an affair with a married
[1:47]government minister.
[1:49]So she's fired from her job and she takes the only job that will hire her, which is working
[1:56]as an assistant to the brilliant but temperamental makeup artist, Obadiah Courtland.
[2:01]And I think that is legendary in the Trinidad and beauty community, but he's also sort
[2:06]of concealing some secrets about his past and when her former lover, the minister threatens
[2:12]a new life, she's rebuilding Bianca has to decide if she's going to accept it again or
[2:18]if she's finally ready to fight back.
[2:20]Interesting.
[2:21]Love it.
[2:22]So your book is so clever because you have this first person diary-ish format that you
[2:30]pick where we are along for the ride with Bianca while she's trying to be an author
[2:35]and yet we're here reading her book, which is always so fun.
[2:38]It's like the Bridget Jones diary if she wanted to be an author.
[2:41]It's very cool.
[2:43]So we get to really live through her shoes and her modeling days and like all the stuff.
[2:50]And even when we meet Obadiah and the way she describes him, and I don't know, I think you
[2:56]said he had like two pierces and is, I don't know, there were two pierces in his ear
[3:00]or there was something like so cool about him.
[3:02]I don't know.
[3:03]Anyway, whatever it was, it was so perfectly visually described.
[3:07]I was like, okay, I know this guy, I know exactly his errand, how he like fetixes for
[3:11]weight and all that stuff.
[3:12]So funny.
[3:13]But anyway, so you can trust that with another timeline.
[3:15]So tell me about the structure because it's really interesting and immediately kind of
[3:20]grips the reader.
[3:21]Yeah.
[3:22]So like you said, the first part of the book is Bianca's diary entries and I was really
[3:28]drawn to the Juno style because I wanted to get in her head in a really intimate way,
[3:36]especially because at the start of the book, Bianca is just like this laughing stock
[3:40]in Trinidadian society.
[3:42]She's being slut-shamed for her affair with the minister and I wanted to contrast sort
[3:48]of the public perception of Bianca with what she's really liked.
[3:53]And I had originally written the whole book from her perspective.
[3:58]Something was just off about it.
[4:00]And I had sent the book out to just some friends and early readers and people responded
[4:07]to me and they said, okay, love the book.
[4:10]But Obadiah is awful.
[4:12]He's a villain and I was shocked by that feedback.
[4:15]I said, no, he's not and I realized that so much of Obadiah's story, I had written it
[4:21]in my head, but I'll come out on the page because Bianca sees him through her eyes.
[4:28]So it's broken up now in the final version, alternating between Bianca and Obadiah.
[4:34]And I hope that by switching to his perspective, because he's pretty awful to her in the
[4:38]beginning, you know, readers can see why he thinks he has to adopt this persona because
[4:44]his whole thing is he is the God of good looks and why he thinks that's what he needs
[4:49]to succeed in the beauty industry.
[4:52]Interesting.
[4:53]I mean, I think that's what's so great about fiction is that you take what we all do all
[4:59]day long, which is make these quick judgments about people or you take a behavior and extrapolate
[5:04]it to what type of person it is when it could be a behavior of some person that comes
[5:08]from a place of their own hurt or their own baggage or whatever.
[5:14]And until you get the backstory, it's impossible to be sympathetic.
[5:18]That's exactly how I feel.
[5:20]And since the book has been out in Trinidad, one of the really gratifying things is talking
[5:26]to readers who know people who come from the pizza and that's where Obadiah is from and
[5:31]people admit things.
[5:32]Sometimes they'll be people from that area who will say things like, oh gosh, you know,
[5:37]the crime is so bad or they were robbed and almost dismissing it being like, yeah, you're
[5:42]from that area too.
[5:43]You know, almost assuming that they're part of the problem.
[5:46]And you said, you know, I've read that book and I really thought, yeah, you know, what
[5:52]about not just sort of steepling on these stereotypes, the people from parts of the country
[5:59]that we've sometimes think of as being, you know, oh, okay, he's from this area.
[6:05]Well, I'm going to assume that he's a criminal.
[6:07]Okay.
[6:08]Well, when did the whole idea of this book even come to you?
[6:12]Like, why this book?
[6:13]Why these characters?
[6:14]Why the diary?
[6:15]I mean, you said why you did the format of the diary to be in her head.
[6:17]But why any of it, like, where did it come from?
[6:22]Sure.
[6:23]So I was commissioned by Boca Slitfest and the Caribbean literary heritage project to do
[6:28]something called inspired by the archives.
[6:32]So you sort of go into Caribbean archives and just write something inspired by one of the
[6:37]sort of former great writers.
[6:40]And I requested a little black notebook belonging to Derek Walker, Caribbean Nobel Prize winner.
[6:46]And I thought, okay, this is going to show me, you know, the soft side of him because
[6:51]he's just incredibly intellectually intimidating in his work.
[6:55]And actually, the notebook was incredibly clever.
[6:58]So he conducts this self interview where he says, W colon, why have you succumbed to this
[7:04]self interview?
[7:05]And then he answers W colon for the money and like, what's to do himself?
[7:11]And those became my first lines.
[7:13]Yes.
[7:14]I was working at the time as a makeup artist and it was like, I didn't consciously think,
[7:19]okay, I'm going to write about beauty and makeup and fashion.
[7:23]But it just sort of like gushed onto the page, all of these things that I was experiencing.
[7:28]And I had all of these questions about beauty.
[7:30]I could see both the sort of joy in makeup and the way that it can, you know, allow you
[7:35]to express yourself, the way that we use makeup, a trend, for example, in carnival for
[7:40]that sort of big cultural celebration.
[7:43]But I also saw the toxic side of beauty and the very narrow beauty standards.
[7:49]And you would go to different clients and they would ask for the same things.
[7:53]You know, can you narrow my nose?
[7:55]Can you sort of highlight this specific spot on my cheekbone?
[7:58]Can you take out my wrinkles?
[8:00]And I also, I think on some level, wanted to engage with that.
[8:05]Because predominantly women, you know, we just hair so many things about how you have to
[8:11]be beautiful.
[8:12]You've got to do this.
[8:13]You've got to do that.
[8:14]And it was a question I had for myself, working in the industry, are you like supporting
[8:19]these beauty ideals?
[8:20]Are you just giving clients what they want?
[8:23]So they were a way for me to sort of engage with those experiences that I was having.
[8:29]So that the Juno style came from Walcott.
[8:32]And it was only supposed to be a commission.
[8:35]It was a short story.
[8:36]It was supposed to finish.
[8:37]And I just couldn't let it go.
[8:40]Like I wanted to find out what happened to the characters.
[8:43]I wanted to get in their head.
[8:44]And so I just kept sort of writing and writing and then it became a book.
[8:50]Wow.
[8:51]That's amazing.
[8:52]Tell me about like how you got to the point where you got the commission to begin with.
[8:57]So where did your career begin?
[8:59]When did you discover your love of reading writing all that?
[9:02]So I have loved reading and writing like my whole life.
[9:07]One thing beyond that I have in common is beyond her talks about following her mother
[9:11]around before she could even read and reading to her.
[9:14]Yes.
[9:15]You did that with the stories and everything.
[9:18]I did that.
[9:19]My mom, I couldn't even remember doing it, but my mom tells me like I would just have
[9:22]a book open and I would be just making stuff up.
[9:27]I would write little stories for my younger brother and have these terrible illustrations
[9:32]to go along with it.
[9:33]And in my school yearbook, when they said, what do you want to be?
[9:36]I actually said who a slash novelist.
[9:39]I mean, my poetry is terrible, but you didn't say good, poet.
[9:45]You just said poet just a poet.
[9:48]But I had no idea how do you actually become a writer.
[9:53]So I'm based in Trinidad and it sometimes seemed like this sort of crazy thing that, you
[9:59]know.
[10:00]Hey, people do it.
[10:01]Maybe you have to leave to become a writer.
[10:04]And so I would just write short stories,
[10:06]submit them to competitions or to journals.
[10:09]And eventually one of my friends said,
[10:12]you know, why don't you put the stories together
[10:14]in a collection?
[10:15]And it sounds really silly now,
[10:17]but I had never thought of that.
[10:19]I was like, wow, yes.
[10:21]So I published a collection of stories
[10:23]with PayPal tree press.
[10:24]And that was my first story into publishing.
[10:27]And before the experience, a lot of writers had warned me,
[10:31]they had said, you think this book is gonna change your life.
[10:33]It's not, it's just gonna be the same,
[10:36]but just having a book in the world,
[10:38]like knowing that it was out there,
[10:40]just that was such a magical experience for me.
[10:42]So that book actually came out
[10:45]while I was writing this something completely different.
[10:49]And I said, okay, let me try and, you know,
[10:51]try to get an agent, see if I can be published.
[10:54]And yeah, so that was how I sort of bought onto this part.
[10:59]I love it.
[11:00]And tell me about the makeup career.
[11:01]What are some funny stories?
[11:03]Or like, what did you, I mean,
[11:04]I always feel like people are, they're most vulnerable.
[11:07]Like the few times I've had my makeup done,
[11:09]which I don't love because then I end up not looking like me,
[11:11]which means I've probably had bad people doing my makeup
[11:13]or I don't even know, but I, I'm very particular.
[11:16]But anyway, but like, they're right up in your face,
[11:19]right, you're so close together and yet you're strangers.
[11:22]And they're like trying to make you bet they're like
[11:25]doing something so nice for you, right?
[11:27]And like working on your face like a canvas.
[11:30]And yet you're still thinking it.
[11:31]I mean, it's like this really intimate experience.
[11:34]Yeah, it honestly working in beauty
[11:37]was something that I sort of tripped and fell into it.
[11:40]I used to be very involved in the fence.
[11:43]I used to be a teacher.
[11:44]And a couple of times we had a makeup artist,
[11:47]Council on us, once with the V of the shoe.
[11:50]And so my parents said,
[11:51]look, do you want to learn to do it yourself?
[11:54]We'll pay for you to do this course
[11:55]in advance professional makeup artistry.
[11:58]And I just, well, how hard could it be?
[12:00]I liked beauty when I got to the course.
[12:03]So first of all, I was the only person there
[12:05]who wasn't already working as a makeup artist.
[12:07]So I tend to leave self-conscious
[12:10]because everybody had all of these tips and tricks.
[12:13]And it far exceeded any expectations I had.
[12:16]So we had to write essays.
[12:18]We had to pass exams.
[12:19]We had to do presentations.
[12:21]You were asked on your own appearance
[12:23]because one of the things that we were taught was,
[12:26]listen, if your woman, the biggest advertisement
[12:29]is your face.
[12:30]So you can't have an outfit.
[12:32]You can't just run to the more bare face in a t-shirt
[12:37]because a potential client could see you
[12:38]and think, oh, she's a mess.
[12:40]I would.
[12:41]So the course itself really blew my mind.
[12:45]Like I'd be writing three essays in a week.
[12:47]And my friends would say, this is for the makeup course.
[12:49]Like what?
[12:51]And then when I started working,
[12:54]it was such an eye-opening experience
[12:56]because exactly like you said, people are so vulnerable.
[13:00]I had somebody once.
[13:02]She wanted me to do like who revenge face.
[13:05]She was going to like a concert at her ex-boyfriend
[13:08]was the guitarist.
[13:09]And she was like, I don't want him back.
[13:11]I just want him to see me and think, damn, she looks good.
[13:16]You know, so it was such a piece, you know, thing for her.
[13:19]And sometimes there are people who, you know, it's like already
[13:24]and it's such a significant event
[13:26]that you want to get everything right.
[13:29]You know, you do the trial with the bride,
[13:30]you get the sort of pictures of what they want to look like.
[13:34]And then carnival makeup was something completely different.
[13:36]It was a transformation.
[13:38]It was like new other makeup before.
[13:39]So it was really exciting.
[13:42]Honestly, there were times that it was really new rocking
[13:45]because, you know, like you make a mistake of cleaning it up
[13:48]and you're just like, no, I loved the part of it
[13:55]that involved sort of seeing what people wanted to look like
[13:59]and sort of working with them on that vision.
[14:02]I think as it got complicated for me,
[14:05]it was when you would hear people,
[14:08]sometimes be so negative about themselves.
[14:11]I remember doing makeup for somebody
[14:13]and she was my friend, we were within our 20s
[14:16]and she was like, okay, you need to take the lines out,
[14:18]hey, I'm the size of my accent.
[14:20]I'm looking at her and I'm like,
[14:21]you don't need all of that concealing.
[14:24]And she was like, yeah, but, you know,
[14:26]I'm paying you like, this is what I want.
[14:29]I'm looking at somebody who's, you know, skin is so smooth
[14:32]and yeah, you can seal it and she felt so much better
[14:35]when I was done.
[14:36]And I was just, you know, there was part of me,
[14:38]there was thinking, why do you think you need to do this?
[14:41]Even as there were times, I felt I needed to do it.
[14:44]And I look back on myself when I was in that world
[14:46]and how intensely insecure and self-conscious I was.
[14:50]And yeah, so I think that would probably be the downside.
[14:53]So it's interesting.
[14:55]Actually, now I want to take back what I said
[14:56]because I did really like my makeup at my two weddings.
[15:02]So that was good.
[15:03]But just like some other random experiences were not as good.
[15:05]But I did really like that, but that's interesting.
[15:09]Is there one piece of makeup that you can't live without?
[15:12]Oh my gosh, I actually think I love a good home
[15:16]animizer, like sometimes I wear and just start.
[15:18]I do my face and I just like put it on.
[15:20]I think it really, for me anyway, just smooth kind of gives you
[15:25]this really smooth look and it's quick.
[15:27]So if I'm a rush, I wouldn't even wear mascara.
[15:31]Sometimes I'll just be like, home animizer and go.
[15:34]And sometimes people say, well, your skin looks great.
[15:36]And I'll be like, yeah.
[15:38]And in my head, I'm like, it's not always skincare, you know,
[15:41]sometimes it's just, I guess, a gluing effect.
[15:44]I don't even have a poor minimizer.
[15:46]What have I been doing with all my time?
[15:48]All right, I'm going to go Google,
[15:50]poor minimizer after this interview.
[15:52]Oh my gosh.
[15:55]Okay, tell me back to the writing stuff.
[15:57]So now that I have my beauty tip of the day, thank you for that.
[16:00]Tell me about your writing process.
[16:01]Like I'm looking at you at your desk here,
[16:03]which I'm assuming is your desk, but looks lovely.
[16:05]Is that where you do your writing?
[16:07]Or like what is your timing?
[16:09]Like you have a process favorite snacks
[16:11]while you're writing anything like that.
[16:13]So we just moved, so I didn't write at this desk.
[16:18]And at the time, I had a full time job.
[16:20]So this book was written sort of laid into the night
[16:23]into early in the morning.
[16:25]And what I would try to do is I would try to sort of get
[16:30]all of that stuff out.
[16:33]So if I had any work stuff around,
[16:35]I would literally move it and hide it.
[16:37]I would try to light a candle to kind of get this feeling
[16:42]of, okay, this is writing time.
[16:45]For me, I think that something that really helped me a lot
[16:50]as well was music sort of getting out of the day
[16:54]and listening to something that sort of helped me
[16:56]to get back into the characters.
[16:58]And then because this book was written and then rewritten,
[17:02]I had written the whole booster from Bianca's perspective.
[17:06]And when I went back into it,
[17:08]and I was trying to decide, okay, which story you should
[17:10]or when I had talent, I sort of tried to pull out the parts
[17:14]where his perspective would be very different from hers
[17:16]because I wanted to build that contrast between what she thinks.
[17:21]And then I wanted when you get in his head,
[17:23]you realize how different he is to her.
[17:25]So I really went through the text.
[17:28]I knew I still wanted who to start.
[17:30]I think if the story was started with him,
[17:33]it wouldn't be as effective.
[17:35]But then I went through and I said, okay, this scene,
[17:38]I want him to tell this story.
[17:40]And the process of rewriting it,
[17:43]while having an existing draft actually felt liberating.
[17:47]It was almost like, oh, I should have been doing this all the time.
[17:50]And I think another big part of my writing process
[17:52]is just reading when you're reading good books.
[17:55]That makes you want to write.
[17:56]It just fills me with a sense of,
[17:58]oh, this book is soon fantastic.
[17:59]I can't wait to see my desk.
[18:01]That's excellent.
[18:03]Actually, your book is inspiring me too.
[18:05]My daughter, I have a daughter who's almost 10.
[18:07]And we have this idea for a book we want to write together
[18:11]called Crushed or something,
[18:13]because it's about how she has a crush.
[18:15]But then there were like crushing things in the mom's life.
[18:17]So I wanted to like intersperse those narratives.
[18:20]But now I'm like, I should do journal style like you did.
[18:23]And she can just write the journal entries from the girl.
[18:25]And I can write the journal entries from the mom.
[18:27]And then you have the whole thing.
[18:28]That would be amazing because I just,
[18:32]I mean, I'm getting excited for what I know
[18:34]and doesn't even exist.
[18:35]But I just thought of the daughter's perspective
[18:39]and then the mom's perspective
[18:40]because it would be so different
[18:42]but there would be some overlap.
[18:43]And I just feel fascinating.
[18:46]Well, the form is now being inspired by you
[18:48]because now I feel like we can each do it on our own
[18:51]without even having to sit here and do it together.
[18:53]I mean, I want to do it with her.
[18:54]Anyway, point is I love it.
[18:56]I love the journal form.
[18:57]I actually have like a whole cabinet
[18:59]of all of my journals from my whole life.
[19:02]Do you have journals?
[19:03]Did you keep your own?
[19:04]Can journals when I was sort of like a girl and a teenager?
[19:09]I don't think that now I keep a journal in the same way.
[19:13]Like I do have something that I write in every day
[19:15]but a friend and I send each other incredibly long voice notes
[19:19]like sometimes 15 minutes long
[19:23]just sort of stream of consciousness
[19:24]and we have really joked that like that is like
[19:28]our life journal because I was just like,
[19:31]all right, let me give you an update since the last time.
[19:34]15 minutes of talking and we said,
[19:37]you know, if you ever were to listen to the words,
[19:38]but this has been going on for years,
[19:40]you know, probably, you know,
[19:42]just all of our struggles or evolution as people.
[19:46]So it's a kind of, you know, journal.
[19:49]That's amazing.
[19:50]I feel like my Instagram account is my journal these days
[19:53]because I write in it every day.
[19:57]I mean, not always my most personal thoughts,
[19:59]but sometimes.
[20:00]And now I'm like, I need to find a way to get all of it off of there and like put it into some sort of document and print it because otherwise all those thoughts of mine are not going to be saved.
[20:09]Not like anyone needs to read them, but like I might want to read them in like 20 years. God for, you know, God willing, I'm still around. So I don't know.
[20:15]Yeah, it would be a great book to like somebody's like Instagram sort of translated into a book. Yeah.
[20:24]We could call it posted. Yes.
[20:27]Look at this. Now I have two book ideas from you. I got to get going. So.
[20:34]That would be great. Oh my gosh. As speaking of new book ideas, are you working on a new book?
[20:40]Actually, how it started was very similar to the God of good luck. So I wrote something that was meant to be a short story.
[20:48]It was about nine thousand words, which is long for a short story. And I said, no, a long story.
[20:55]I said, I got this long story down and instead of cutting it down, I wanted to continue and I have a little book with three ideas. It's like literally we're to next book at the top and bullet points, which each one.
[21:10]I just kept writing this. So now I'm four to a thousand words in and I'm like, Oh, there you go.
[21:15]This is going to be the next book, barring, I guess.
[21:18]An age of one editor saying, absolutely not, but it has been a very similar process.
[21:23]I think my starting point is often character.
[21:26]I have two characters here that just sort of sunk the teeth into me. And now I just, I want to find out what happens.
[21:35]I wonder what happens to like Bianca and all of them now. Oh, but I do.
[21:41]I think I can see both what I want to have one. There's a part of me that feels like I knew the characters and I want them to live in this sort of perfect world where they never have any problem.
[21:52]So there's a part of me that says, Oh, yes, you know, everything will be perfect. And you know,
[21:57]that business will flourish. And then there's, I guess the right side of me that said, no, you know, these are the problems that they would still be having.
[22:05]I don't want to give away the end, but yeah, don't, yeah.
[22:10]It's a part of me that like knows that there would be definitely some challenges along along their new journey.
[22:18]What advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[22:22]So I think the first piece of advice I would have is just read read read read read.
[22:27]And I would say like when I love a book, I read it foods just as a reader. I just didn't know what happens tuning the pages, but I would advise the sort of go back to that book when you're done as a writer and think, okay.
[22:41]What did I love and actually like make notes about the craft and look at the things in the craft that maybe you can learn from or you know, if a scene is particularly powerful just like analyze it and break it down.
[22:53]And I would say do the same thing if you really hate something. Go back and think, okay, why do I need this.
[23:01]What can I learn so that I don't do this. And I think the other thing is that I've talked to so many aspiring writers and what I hear a lot is that they've started something but they're so disappointed with it.
[23:14]That the world of the book in the head is just completely different from what's down on the page.
[23:20]And sometimes they compare their pages like a first draft of finishing book they love and say, oh, well it's no, you know, insert your favorite book here.
[23:28]And I would say that yes, there are times when something is going nowhere and you have to give up on it.
[23:34]But most times, books that you see that have finished the product of many, many, many drafts and read drafts.
[23:42]And so, you know, if you feel this sort of disappointment with your work, I would say take a break, have a cup of tea or just sometimes take a break from it for like the rest of the day or several days, but you know, don't judge your work.
[23:55]Again, something that's out there and published and I've heard it's been really a great comfort to me when I was writing this book, I would listen to podcasts, I would look at sort of like Instagram live with authors I love.
[24:07]Anytime somebody said, I had a terrible first draft or this book took me seven years to write, I would say, oh, you see, but look at what they came up with in the end.
[24:17]I like what you said about not comparing yourself to a finished book because that's never the way people start like that's not what's in people's computers when they handed in.
[24:27]It's gone through so much by the time it hits the it's the shelves.
[24:31]I need to go back to that inspired by the archives project, I was doing one of the things I saw was the first drafts of great works and sometimes the endings were completely different.
[24:43]You know, even at the sentence level, you could see that this was a flu's job and I thought, wow, you know, even the sort of like buried literary, I go on this how these messy face drops.
[24:53]Very inspiring.
[24:55]Amazing.
[24:56]Well, Brian, thank you so much.
[24:57]Thanks for coming on mom's no time to read books.
[24:59]Thank you for the God of good looks and thank you for the poor minimizer suggestion.
[25:04]Do you have a brand that you like where did I buy it?
[25:07]I use like the Maybelline baby skin.
[25:11]Okay, best of all, drugstore, but second of all, it's great on its own on the makeup.
[25:17]I.
[25:18]Yeah.
[25:19]Okay, now.
[25:20]I'm not even kidding.
[25:21]I'm going to go buy some.
[25:22]I'm going to go buy some today.
[25:24]Okay.
[25:28]You could sell it as like a little package and you should call Maybelline gets in like a affiliate revenue deal going on.
[25:34]Do a beauty book box.
[25:36]Totally.
[25:37]You should do it.
[25:38]I mean, stranger things have happened to me.
[25:40]Give them a call.
[25:41]Okay.
[25:42]All right.
[25:43]Have a great day.
[25:44]Thank you so much.
[25:45]Bye.
[25:46]Thanks for listening to this episode of mom's don't have time to read books.
[25:49]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at mom's don't have time to read books.
[25:54]Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week.
[26:01]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[26:05]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.