Patti Callahan Henry, THE SECRET BOOK OF FLORA LEA
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Patty Callahan Henry is the author of the secret book of Flora Lee, a novel.
[1:07]This episode is guest hosted by Julie Chavez, author of the upcoming Zippy Books title,
[1:12]everyone but myself and host of Ask a Librarian.
[1:15]Patty is a New York Times Globe and Mail and USA Today bestselling author of 17 novels,
[1:21]including her newest, The Secret Book of Flora Lee.
[1:23]She's also a podcast host of original content for her novels, Surviving Savannah and
[1:27]Becoming Mrs. Lewis.
[1:29]She is the recipient of the Christie Award Book of the Year, the Harper Lee Distinguished
[1:32]Writer of the Year, and the Alabama Library Association Book of the Year for Becoming
[1:36]Mrs. Lewis.
[1:37]She is the co-host and co-creator of the popular weekly online Friends and Fiction live
[1:42]web show and podcast.
[1:43]Patty also is a contributor to the monthly life lesson essay column for Parade Magazine.
[1:48]She has been published in numerous anthologies, articles, and short story collections, including
[1:52]an audible original about Florence Nightingale titled Wild Swan, narrated by the Tony
[1:57]Award winner Cynthia Erivo, a full-time author mother of three and grandmother of two.
[2:02]She lives in Mountain Brook, Alabama, with her husband.
[2:05]Patty, welcome to Mom's Don't Have Time Trade Books.
[2:08]I'm so glad you're here.
[2:09]I'm so happy to be here.
[2:10]Thanks for having me, Julie.
[2:12]This is great.
[2:13]I'm thrilled.
[2:14]I can't wait to talk about your book, The Secret Book of Flora Lee, which I just finished
[2:20]on, let's see, I finished it two days ago, but I was walking around the house with
[2:27]this book.
[2:28]I listened to a portion of it on audio as well.
[2:31]So I want to talk about that, too, because it was incredible.
[2:35]But I'm a big fan, of course, if you've got mail and Kathleen Kelly just has major vibes
[2:40]for me.
[2:41]And so when I was reading this book, I told my husband, this book is enchanting.
[2:47]I feel enchanted by this book.
[2:50]It just was so beautifully done, so congratulations.
[2:55]I'm so excited.
[2:56]Thank you so much.
[2:58]And I literally can't think of a word that would mean more to me than enchanting.
[3:04]So thank you from the bottom of my heart.
[3:07]Thank you.
[3:08]And I love Kathleen and you've got mail.
[3:10]And you're the first person who's kind of picked up on that vibe.
[3:13]So yay.
[3:15]I'm so glad.
[3:16]I'm so glad, truly it was.
[3:18]It just kept coming to mind.
[3:20]I thought I'm enchanted by this.
[3:22]And I wanted to say, too, that part of the wonder of it, for people who want to read
[3:27]it in text, great, it's beautiful that way.
[3:29]But also, I think this is one of the most beautifully produced audiobooks I've heard.
[3:34]Cynthia Urivo was unreal.
[3:37]And you even believe it, like, okay.
[3:41]So when they were, when they gave, so Cynthia once narrated an audible original that
[3:47]I wrote, called Wild Swan, which is a short, you know, two-hour short story about Florence
[3:54]Nightingale.
[3:55]And it was during COVID.
[3:57]And of course, she was out of work.
[3:58]So they hired her to read it and she read it.
[4:01]And I was so, I'm going to steal your word.
[4:05]I was so enchanted with the way she reads that when it came time for this book, I said,
[4:10]can you get her again?
[4:13]And they said, she's never read an entire.
[4:15]She doesn't read novels.
[4:18]And then whatever magic they had to use, she said, yes.
[4:21]So I am the first full-length novel she's narrated and it is pure magic.
[4:30]I can't imagine.
[4:31]I had that on my list of questions for you was, if you had listened to auditions, I mean,
[4:35]how that came to be because I was wondering of her, her sing and perform and she's
[4:39]in front of the Tony and Emmy and a Grammy, like, what the heck?
[4:47]And now she's narrated a full-length audio book.
[4:50]I hope she was an audio for it.
[4:52]And to get my writing.
[4:54]Oh, absolutely.
[4:55]Yes, she'll be close to the egot, but, you know, egot, maybe something like that.
[5:00]We can add it.
[5:01]Yeah.
[5:02]No, she was incredible.
[5:03]But I think the thing I liked about it, the most is that she really captured the spirit
[5:08]of the book, at least for me.
[5:10]I mean, just listening to it, I thought, this is exactly a book I read years ago that
[5:15]I'm constantly thinking about was the elegance of the hedgehog.
[5:19]And there's a line in there about consonants and she said, she described it as, it's
[5:24]the feeling of, this is arranged exactly as it ought to have been.
[5:28]And that's how I felt about her with the audiobook.
[5:30]This is spoken and performed exactly as it should have been done.
[5:34]I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but I listened to the beginning.
[5:39]And I was listening to it walking down the sidewalk on book tour and tears were like,
[5:47]the woman I was with Meg, I said, listen, like, I need to just stop and listen.
[5:52]I know.
[5:53]It's a great.
[5:54]You're so right.
[5:55]I actually will listen to books off and on a higher speed, right?
[5:58]Cause I got things to do.
[6:00]But is that one?
[6:01]Yeah.
[6:02]But that one I refuse to for that exact reason, I thought, nope, this is actually,
[6:06]this deserves to be listened to at the pace that she recorded it.
[6:10]So, oh, I'm so glad.
[6:12]It just, her rhythm and all the things were just well suited to this story.
[6:18]However, bravo to you because the way that you structured your sentences,
[6:23]the way that you wrote the rhythm of this book is, is part of its magic.
[6:27]So it's just a, it was a joy to read.
[6:31]I don't remember the last time I've felt so moved and invested and involved in a book.
[6:38]Oh, thank you.
[6:39]It was so great.
[6:40]Well, it was a joy to write from the moment I wrote that kind of in
[6:43]canceratory opening of not very long ago and not very far away.
[6:48]I wanted the whole rhythm of the book in places where it could just feel that way.
[6:55]Well, you achieved it.
[6:57]I wanted to talk a little bit about just a few of the things I marked in this story.
[7:02]Now, I went into this completely cold.
[7:04]I didn't read anything about the book, which is how I prefer to read it.
[7:09]And I also, I was fortunate to get an advanced reader copy,
[7:13]but I didn't read the letter from your editor.
[7:16]But then I went back afterward and read it.
[7:19]And if I may, it just, he said, or I'm sorry, she said, Trish,
[7:23]one of an editor's biggest thrills is to find a book by a veteran author who
[7:27]finally hits the big home run, the completely fresh and imaginative tale.
[7:32]She uses all her experience and considerable storing telling skills to write.
[7:37]And I was just as soon as I read it, I thought that's so perfect.
[7:44]So I mean, I guess I just want to talk to you a little bit about,
[7:48]is this the story that's been waiting for you?
[7:52]Because I look at your career and how long, and you've written so many books
[7:57]and produced so many different things, you're with friends in fiction.
[8:00]You just have so many wonderful ways that you show up in the world.
[8:03]But how does this book fit into that?
[8:04]Was it, how did it feel for you?
[8:06]What an interesting and fantastic question because I do think,
[8:12]I don't know if it was waiting for me, but I do believe in stories finding us.
[8:16]I mean, I 100% think that my favorite
[8:20]invest stories have been ones that I have been paying attention and gotten the chill bump
[8:27]and been curious about it and taken a deep head dive into it.
[8:32]But I do think that this is a culmination of all the things I love, right?
[8:39]So I wrote probably 10 or 11 contemporary fiction.
[8:44]Then I started writing historical fiction, starting with a novel called Becoming Mrs. Lewis.
[8:49]And then started really moving deep into historical fiction.
[8:55]And this book is a combination of the things I love, fairy tales, story,
[9:02]the British countryside, myth, fable, legends, and then this kind of irrevocable hope
[9:12]that we don't let people take away from us, right?
[9:16]If we're living with hope for something that everybody else is saying is impossible,
[9:21]i.e., I don't know, Julie, a publishing career.
[9:25]So I think that this I wrote not under contract, which you well know, but for all of you listening
[9:32]means you're writing it, you know, hoping to sell it as an entire book,
[9:36]instead of writing it under contract for a publishing house.
[9:40]And so I wrote it on spec, which is what we call that, and I wrote it very quietly.
[9:45]I didn't, the only person who knew or people who knew I was working on it were my dearest writer
[9:50]of pals and my agent. So I think that because of that, I was able to put the things that matter of the
[10:00]to me in the novel.
[10:03]You feel that just listening to describe it.
[10:05]There is a magic.
[10:06]I mean, this is, it is a secret book in some ways.
[10:10]And I just, I love that that's reflected in the title.
[10:13]You said one of the themes, stories finding us
[10:18]that you were just mentioning,
[10:19]but one of the lines I pulled out of the book
[10:22]was despair leads us to stories.
[10:25]We invent them so we can live in a world with meaning.
[10:28]And I wanted to ask you, where do you find meaning?
[10:31]Obviously in story, but just on a bigger scale,
[10:34]where does that come from for you?
[10:37]I love that.
[10:38]When I give a talk about story,
[10:42]I always talk about how we, as humans,
[10:46]are a meaning-making people.
[10:48]We, okay, when there was this huge decades-long psychiatric
[10:54]study, it said, if you ask people what they think they want,
[10:58]they always say I want to be happy.
[11:00]I just want to be happy.
[11:02]But when they took a deeper dive,
[11:04]what people really mean when they say that
[11:07]is they want meaning, purpose and meaning.
[11:10]And they want the things that happen to them
[11:13]and that happen to others and that happen in the world
[11:16]to have meaning because we can tolerate not being happy
[11:21]as long as we know or feel that there's meaning.
[11:24]And there's so many different ways
[11:27]that people find meaning in their circumstances
[11:31]in the world.
[11:32]And that's, you know, to a science through story,
[11:35]through religion, through spiritual practices,
[11:38]through poetry.
[11:40]And for me, one of the ways that I have found
[11:44]or made meaning out of the meaning, less or sense of the senseless,
[11:48]has been through story.
[11:51]Either the ones I'm making up or the ones I'm reading,
[11:54]the other thing that grounds me
[11:56]and helps me a lot when things seem senseless as poetry,
[12:01]it kind of brings down the defenses
[12:03]and takes us out of logic and into a different realm
[12:07]where things are connected and things have more meaning
[12:11]because they're connected.
[12:12]And so there are different ways,
[12:15]but for me, almost always it has been
[12:19]and you as a librarian would probably say the same,
[12:22]it's story.
[12:23]It's what we give to kids,
[12:24]it's how we help them make meaning of things too.
[12:26]Absolutely.
[12:28]Yes, you can reconcile all of these tensions
[12:31]and all of the pain that we experience
[12:35]that's part of being human,
[12:36]it's much easier to reconcile it or to feel
[12:41]that there is an ability to make meaning through a story.
[12:44]You're exactly right.
[12:45]So yeah, I feel that very much,
[12:49]which is part of why this book was so precious for me
[12:51]as I just, there were parts I read
[12:53]and I thought, oh, that feels exactly like me.
[12:56]So that was a gift.
[12:57]I mean, some books are mirrors and some are windows.
[13:00]So this was both, I think.
[13:02]You did a beautiful job with that.
[13:04]I liked, so about Hazel,
[13:07]who's one of the sisters in the story.
[13:09]And I'm not, I don't wanna tell people too much
[13:12]like we were talking,
[13:13]but I don't wanna give them too much of a run of this
[13:15]because as you said, I wouldn't categorize this
[13:18]as historical fiction.
[13:20]I would say, I mean, mostly I just say,
[13:23]just read this, just read.
[13:24]Listen, just do what I tell you to do, right?
[13:26]I mean, if we're friends, just do that.
[13:28]That's right, exactly.
[13:30]Don't make me explain it.
[13:32]Exactly.
[13:33]Yes, but I did like about Hazel,
[13:36]she loved knowing why things happened
[13:38]because if she did, it was quite possible
[13:40]she could keep them from happening again.
[13:42]Are you like this?
[13:44]Oh, truly.
[13:45]I always say that being a writer is often
[13:49]and you are too.
[13:49]It's often like being a psychic therapist.
[13:51]So that's a great question, right?
[13:54]So repeat the quote.
[13:56]So I kind of, yes, I will settle you in it,
[13:58]but the reason I ask is this is definitely me.
[14:00]So I won't make you only share issues.
[14:03]I love to get, you know, let's just get messy.
[14:06]She loved knowing why things happened
[14:08]because if she did, it was quite possible
[14:11]she could keep them from happening again.
[14:14]I think that goes back to as humans,
[14:18]what we were talking about before making meaning,
[14:19]which is the other thing we're after.
[14:23]You know, we have these 84 billion brain cells
[14:25]in there after one thing, control,
[14:28]like control the world so that I am safe, right?
[14:33]Scanned, look for meaning, look for connections
[14:36]so that I can control it.
[14:38]And when we finally realize,
[14:40]and it's usually only for about three seconds at a time,
[14:43]but when we finally realize that we have no control,
[14:47]we can check our rankings.
[14:49]We can, we can, you know, send our emails into our posts,
[14:52]but we can't control who buys and doesn't buy our book.
[14:55]We can't control.
[14:57]We can't keep our loved ones safe.
[14:59]There is a fantastic memoir written by a dear friend
[15:02]of mine called Bombshelter by Mary Laura Philpott.
[15:06]You've read it.
[15:07]Love that book.
[15:09]Love it.
[15:09]Yes.
[15:10]And she, you know, it's what the book is about,
[15:13]is that we feel like we can be this bombshell
[15:15]to her in the world for the people.
[15:17]We love the people we care about.
[15:20]And, and because Hazel, I mean, it's not a,
[15:23]she's right, the opening, she loses her little sister.
[15:27]And that's what the book is about is what happens
[15:29]to her little sister, Flora Lee,
[15:31]when that, when that terrible thing happens.
[15:33]And for the rest of her life,
[15:36]she wants to control the world
[15:38]so that these unexpected things,
[15:41]she's lived through World War II.
[15:43]It's now 1960.
[15:45]She has her life in these neat little boxes.
[15:48]She has her, but she's not doing the things she loves.
[15:51]But she's, I mean, she loves the bookshop,
[15:54]but she's keeping herself from her one true love,
[15:56]which is writing, but she's got her job,
[15:59]her boyfriend, her parents, her, her mom.
[16:02]She keeps these little type boxes
[16:04]because to go outside of those,
[16:07]or even look at the past is, is too out of control.
[16:11]So I think that is her way and our way,
[16:14]meaning you and me, the saying that,
[16:17]you know, we, we try to control things that are in the end,
[16:22]ultimately, never in our control.
[16:25]Oh, isn't that the most painful, beautiful truth of it is,
[16:31]free loving people and awful all at the same time?
[16:35]It is.
[16:36]Gosh, I have to remind myself of that.
[16:38]Oh, like you said,
[16:40]every three or three seconds.
[16:41]Yeah, I think, I think I'm in a three second cycle.
[16:44]Of course, which I think my husband really enjoys.
[16:47]Oh, it's so fun for the people who we live with.
[16:48]Yes, so fun.
[16:49]Yes, I know.
[16:50]We're such a delight.
[16:51]They're so lucky.
[16:52]Absolutely.
[16:53]They're so lucky.
[16:55]Something that I really like that you talk about in the book
[16:59]is you, you introduce, you talk a lot about pagan stories.
[17:03]Yeah.
[17:04]And I think what I love that I appreciated the way you did,
[17:09]there's something in our culture that sets
[17:11]pagan stories against some of the religious narratives,
[17:15]especially the Judeo Christian ones.
[17:17]And I thought you did a really nice job of including
[17:23]them all and seeing what was there.
[17:25]And was that, what are your, what are your thoughts on that
[17:28]when you think about story in that way?
[17:30]What are, tell me a little bit more about that.
[17:32]So as a caveat, I am a preachers kid.
[17:35]So I grew up with a biblical version of those stories.
[17:39]Right.
[17:40]And in high school, I took Latin instead of a language I might
[17:44]speak when I travel.
[17:46]I took, I took only written language, right?
[17:50]But why would you want French?
[17:52]Yay, silly.
[17:53]Really helpful when I go with France.
[17:55]But what I also studied because of new study,
[18:00]Latin, new study mythology.
[18:03]And when I began to see how story is built on story,
[18:07]is built on story, is built on story, is built on story.
[18:12]I think that we get, if we open our eyes to that,
[18:15]we see that throughout history, we have been trying to
[18:19]explain our origins, the natural world, spiritual things
[18:25]through these stories that all grow out of each other.
[18:30]Right, they're not all that different in the end, right?
[18:35]And there's an honoring, I feel, for the old stories
[18:41]that we don't discard them because they aren't true anymore
[18:46]or we don't believe in Zeus, right?
[18:49]Of course we don't.
[18:50]There's no Zeus, right?
[18:52]But yeah, there's an honoring in this stories
[18:56]that have led to where we are now.
[18:59]And I enjoy that honoring and I'm really fascinated
[19:04]by the overlap of them.
[19:05]And one of the places they really overlap is with Bridget.
[19:10]Because Bridget is both an Irish Celtic goddess.
[19:15]And she is also a Catholic saint.
[19:18]And it's the same person and the same stories
[19:22]and they're celebrated on the same day.
[19:24]So how do we rectify that?
[19:27]How do we combine those?
[19:29]How do we hold that kind of non dualism in our minds
[19:34]and hearts while simultaneously honoring both?
[19:38]So now let's try and do a little bit of that.
[19:41]And it's such a minor subplot, but it was important to me
[19:46]because of the overarching theme of the importance of story
[19:51]and the novel that was important to.
[19:54]They're all stories are honored in their own way.
[19:58]Yeah, I'm...
[20:00]I really appreciated seeing that there because I think we tend, I mean, obviously now
[20:05]over simplification is like the way of the day.
[20:08]And so seeing something that holds the truth of things and recognizing that there's
[20:16]a kernel there.
[20:17]So you're, like you said, you're building on what is true and you can discard the trappings
[20:25]of it.
[20:26]And, you know, I just think there's so much to be said there and such a good analogy.
[20:30]I mean, when we try to make something simple, yes, you know, kiss, keep it simple stupid.
[20:36]But right.
[20:37]I mean, when we try to do that with something as ethereal, as story or spirituality or
[20:45]psychology or the psyche or when we try to keep it simple and in a black and white world
[20:53]in a right and wrong world, do ourselves any good for the complicated ways that we are
[21:00]as as in the human condition does us know good to make it black and white.
[21:07]No.
[21:08]Yeah, save, uh, save that acronym for your budgeting or something really boring and stupid.
[21:13]Exactly.
[21:14]For your next meeting.
[21:15]Yes.
[21:16]Yes.
[21:17]Who doesn't love an acronym in a, in a meeting?
[21:18]I did want to say one brief line about the Pied Piper business speaking of stories and naming
[21:25]of that.
[21:26]I really hope that someone got fired for that naming still trying to track down somebody
[21:34]in the British government who can explain this to me.
[21:39]It is incredible because we were talking, you know, this is part of the children during
[21:43]World War II being moved out of cities and the idea was to keep them safe, but Pied Piper.
[21:48]I mean, it really is like if we called it today like the stranger in a van movement or
[21:53]something like what are we doing here?
[21:55]This is not a good idea.
[21:56]Well, it makes me think of that, but the child catcher into the titty bang band.
[22:01]Oh, I love that.
[22:02]Yes.
[22:03]Terrified my children for years.
[22:05]Careified me.
[22:06]Oh, yeah.
[22:07]The child catcher was really, even when I watched that as an adult, I'm like, mom and
[22:12]a little bit confused when the water comes up on the card, I'm like, so wait, are we in a dream
[22:29]or not?
[22:30]What's happening?
[22:31]So I read this the other day and I remember I knew this a long time ago, but if lending
[22:36]wrote it, like James Bond author wrote titty titty bang bang, I did not know that, right?
[22:43]That's incredible.
[22:44]I'm here to broaden your board.
[22:46]Yes, you are.
[22:49]And Fleming, wow, I'm going to have to look into that man.
[22:52]He must have had some, yeah, some dreams up in there either hallucinogenic or non.
[22:59]We won't say, we won't judge.
[23:02]It worked.
[23:03]It worked.
[23:04]I mean, it was, yeah, that's amazing.
[23:05]I really love that.
[23:07]I think something you do really well is you write tension really well.
[23:10]Oh, thank you.
[23:11]I think it really speaks to you are wanting to pull together opposites or pull together
[23:18]seemingly opposing themes or issues when really there is a middle ground for them.
[23:23]And so you write that really well.
[23:26]I also love the way that you write about love and care.
[23:32]I just thought that it was beautiful and I really liked the parts that where you wrote
[23:37]about young love a little bit.
[23:39]There was a part and I won't say anything except that you described it so aptly.
[23:44]You said, needing him to like her and pushing him away at the same time.
[23:48]And why I just kept going back to that and thinking, that is so true.
[23:53]Why is that?
[23:54]Why do you think like, did you think about that when you wrote it or was I think what
[23:57]I was tapping into is the way that we feel one more 12, 13, 14 on the cuss and there's
[24:05]this attraction.
[24:06]I mean, I think almost everyone, unless there's been some kind of trauma, can remember
[24:12]being 13, 14, 15 and there's this like attraction.
[24:17]I can't.
[24:18]Oh my God.
[24:19]It looked at me.
[24:20]Push him.
[24:21]You hate him on the place.
[24:22]Right?
[24:23]Yes.
[24:24]Great fear of being seen maybe or being seen for liking them in case they don't like you.
[24:35]And in this case with the hazel is talking about it, yeah, in this case, she is living
[24:41]in his house because during Operation Pride Piper, you lived with strangers.
[24:45]So not only is it multiplied by the fact that they've been living together for a year,
[24:52]but it's not a brother, right, but they act like it, but they're not.
[24:58]So I really wanted to tap into this push pole of someone is supposed to only mean this
[25:05]to me, but I think they mean this to me.
[25:10]How am I supposed to know?
[25:11]I'm only 15 or 15 years old.
[25:14]Yeah.
[25:15]Just I love the way you express that and just listening to talk about that just now, it really
[25:20]makes me realize that even in adulthood, I feel that push pole when it comes to being deeply
[25:26]vulnerable.
[25:27]Yes.
[25:28]So there's something about vulnerability and listening to you talk about it makes me realize
[25:33]that that really is your first taste of it.
[25:36]Is that sort of young love exposure, which, I mean, even if it's a new friendship,
[25:42]yes, right, indeed, like, wait, I think they see me.
[25:47]Is that good?
[25:48]Should I keep going or, you know, so I don't think anything, like I said, we play
[25:54]psychoanalysts in our novels, but I don't think that ever leaves us.
[25:59]No.
[26:00]I mean, I think we can grow and learn from it if we're a little self aware, but in the
[26:05]meantime, I just don't think it ever leaves us.
[26:09]It's so true.
[26:10]I think that was something I really appreciated is when you wrote the way that you structured
[26:15]this, you really do get to see Hazel as an adult and Hazel as a child at the same time.
[26:23]And there's something so true about that where, you know, we're all who we are and also
[26:30]the 17-year-olds.
[26:31]We were.
[26:32]We are all the ages.
[26:33]All of them.
[26:34]We ever were.
[26:35]It's so strange.
[26:36]Wow.
[26:37]I want to find out for you what is so you, like we talked about earlier, you know, your
[26:44]publishing career, this great act of faith that we hold in in our lives.
[26:49]But what is from where you are now?
[26:53]What's your favorite thing about being a writer?
[26:55]Oh, Julie, I love that question.
[26:58]I'm so stealing that for friends with fiction because I can answer that and it's never
[27:04]what people think it is.
[27:06]Right.
[27:07]Yes.
[27:08]So people think that you will say, it's, you know, I had number eight on the New York
[27:12]Times list, which was blow my mind amazing.
[27:16]Of course, that's awesome.
[27:18]I think you'll say, see my name on a book, which is amazing.
[27:22]But there are two things I love the most.
[27:25]And the first is when I'm writing and I lose myself.
[27:31]I don't know if I'm explaining that, right?
[27:34]Where I step out of my limitations and my ego and my needs and my constant longings and
[27:45]desires and blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
[27:49]I'm so sick of me, like, what I'm stuck within my head and I'm not there anymore.
[27:56]I'm on the page and I'm, I'm riding that current in that river and I come back to myself
[28:04]and I'm like, oh, that's, you know, it doesn't happen very often and it doesn't happen
[28:08]all the time.
[28:09]The second thing that is my favorite thing about being a writer is the writing community.
[28:14]Look, we just met and we're already friends, right?
[28:18]We care about the same things.
[28:19]We're looking for the same things.
[28:21]We're diving for the same things.
[28:23]We're mining our own compost pile for the same things.
[28:26]We're trying to find a way to be in the world with meaning and purpose.
[28:32]And, you know, I've always said that it's the writing and reading community.
[28:37]But friends and fiction and same as cities community shows you even more that they're,
[28:42]that the people who care about these things are the best people in the world.
[28:49]I love those answers and that description of really, there are moments and you're right.
[28:57]They're so hard to find where you feel like, oh, this is, I'm just bringing these words
[29:02]here, but they're not about me and it's the most freeing feeling to be separated from
[29:08]you're so free.
[29:09]Okay.
[29:10]What's your favorite thing?
[29:11]I'm flipping it.
[29:13]You know, I think it is expressing something.
[29:19]I think it's right now when I am able to express something and it resonates with someone.
[29:26]So much of what I write about is motherhood and to see your, your system memoir, right?
[29:30]It is.
[29:31]And so I think knowing that someone can see themselves in what I've written because
[29:38]my greatest hope is that it's just, that it, that it eases in for someone else.
[29:44]Yes, that they find ease or grace in whatever they're pulling out.
[29:50]And so when it becomes not about me or, or my story, but just, oh, that resonates for
[29:56]me because it's suddenly about the reader.
[29:59]So I think that's,
[30:00]My favorite of that the Madeline Langle says that a book is a bridge between a reader and a writer and
[30:09]I've it that came to my mind while you were describing it. That's what it feels like you're exactly right
[30:14]It is a bridge. I also have a piece that I'm gonna send you because you talked about untrue
[30:19]things or the untruth
[30:22]Was that C.S. Lewis or Tolkien? No peen. Yep. That was okay. So
[30:27]But there's a piece by her where that was what she was asked about bridge to terabethia, but it is is it true?
[30:33]I think and it's a beautiful essay and her I think you'll
[30:38]Send it to me. I'll send that only it in the podcast for anybody who's like oh good idea. Yes
[30:42]I'll send it to yes
[30:44]I will share it with all the people
[30:45]But I wanted to finish this by telling you that
[30:49]When I finished this book and this was completely accidental
[30:53]I was sitting at our local coffee place, which is called Inklings no way which is yes
[30:59]Which is named after their group their C.S. Lewis stuff and Tolkien stuff all over the place and I was sitting outside and
[31:05]The Sun was coming through the tree and the pattern was on the ground and I just thought this is
[31:12]just a moment of
[31:14]Perfect synchronicity so I just have to let you know your book was a
[31:20]Gift to me in just this wonderful moment and I'm so glad that it's out in the world and I can't wait to put it in everyone's hands
[31:27]Oh
[31:28]I love that moment. It sounds like a moment of pure grace and that my book was with you
[31:33]I am so happy. Thank you, Charlie. This is so great. And that was like two minutes wasn't it?
[31:40]Yep, two minutes a time. We're done. I like to make this fast. Thank you. Thanks so much, friend. Thank you, Tilly
[31:47]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books
[31:52]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books
[31:57]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom
[32:03]Every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan fact texture sound for the sound editing and thank you to morning moon
[32:09]productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music