Kristin Harmel, THE PARIS DAUGHTER
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30 minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
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[1:03]Kristen Harmel is the author of the Paris daughter, a novel.
[1:07]This is guest hosted by Julie Chavez, host of the podcast, Ask a Librarian, and author
[1:11]of the upcoming Zippy Books memoir, Everyone But Myself.
[1:15]Kristen Harmel is the New York Times bestselling USA Today by selling a number one international
[1:20]bestselling author of the forest of the vanishing stars, the book of Los names, the
[1:24]winemakers wife, and a dozen other novels that have been translated into more than 30 languages
[1:28]and are sold all over the world.
[1:30]Kristen has been writing professionally since the age of 16, when she began her career
[1:34]as a sports writer covering major league baseball and NHL hockey for a local magazine
[1:38]in Tampa Bay, Florida in the late 90s.
[1:40]In addition to a long magazine writing career, primarily writing and reporting for
[1:43]people magazine, as well as articles published in numerous other magazines including
[1:47]American Baby Men's Health, Women's Day, and more, Kristen was a frequent contributor
[1:51]to the national television morning show The Daily Buzz.
[1:54]She sold her first novel in 2004 and it came out in February of 2006.
[1:59]Kristen was born just outside Boston, Massachusetts, and spent her childhood there as
[2:02]well as in Worthington, Ohio, and St. Petersburg, Florida.
[2:06]After graduating with a degree in journalism with a minor in Spanish from the University
[2:09]of Florida, she spent time living in Paris and LA and now lives in Orlando with her husband
[2:14]and young son.
[2:15]She's also the co-founder and co-host of the popular weekly web show and podcast Friends
[2:20]and Fiction.
[2:21]Kristen, thank you so much for coming today.
[2:23]I am so happy that I get to be the one to interview you for mom's don't have time to
[2:27]read books.
[2:28]Well, I'm so happy too, because I know you also write about motherhood, so this will
[2:32]be such a perfect conversation.
[2:33]I'm looking forward to it.
[2:35]Yes, I'm sure it will be stilted and horrible and will have nothing to talk about.
[2:38]I mean, so I look forward to that, awkward pauses abound from here.
[2:44]At time, I absolutely expect that.
[2:46]Yes.
[2:47]Clearly.
[2:48]Well, we're here today specifically to talk about the Paris daughter, which is out on
[2:53]June 6th and this is such a beautifully written book.
[3:00]So one of the blurbs for at least the bar said it was exquisite and gut wrenching and
[3:04]gut wrenching was the absolute word that kept coming to me or phrase.
[3:11]I just kept thinking, oh my gosh, this is, and you captured so well, part of my excitement
[3:17]for talking to you too is that when I picked this up, I realized I read years ago, probably
[3:23]I mean, I think right after it's released, but I read the room on room, Emily, years ago.
[3:28]Awesome.
[3:29]Oh, how great.
[3:30]It was so fun for me to come back to your writing because you're just so talented with
[3:34]historical fiction.
[3:35]I really enjoy your books.
[3:38]Will you give us the, since you have a little more practice at it, tell us what the
[3:43]Paris daughter is about.
[3:45]It's funny that you say I have more practice at it because you know, I'm just beginning
[3:52]to sort of hone my elevator pitch for it, so you're going to get sort of the unfiltered,
[3:56]like let me throw all these things that you and tell me what you think.
[3:59]So I love it.
[4:00]It is the story.
[4:01]It's like I have the first few words down, but then the rest of it, I just spin off on
[4:04]a tangent.
[4:05]So it's the story of two mothers, two daughters, an allied bomb that falls where it shouldn't
[4:11]in the suburbs of Paris, two families torn apart forever, a disappearance, and a mystery
[4:18]that lingers for 17 years until a chance meeting across the ocean in New York in 1960
[4:25]sends the two women hurtling back into each other's paths, reawakening old wounds,
[4:32]or maybe reopening old wounds.
[4:33]See, I'm honing as I go and sending them hurtling toward a conclusion that'll change
[4:38]everything for both of them forever.
[4:40]Did that capture it?
[4:41]Since you've read the book, did I do it in my elevator pitch?
[4:44]Yes.
[4:45]You did.
[4:46]Yes.
[4:47]That was perfect.
[4:48]I was listening.
[4:49]Yes.
[4:50]Yes.
[4:51]Now, done.
[4:52]You can take that off of your list of things to do today.
[4:55]Yeah.
[4:56]It'll never come out of my mouth that way again, but it came out today.
[4:58]So that's okay.
[4:59]That was a perfect description because there were so many turns in this book.
[5:03]And I was really enjoying that because I think for me, sometimes historical fiction can
[5:11]be slower.
[5:12]Yeah.
[5:13]You know, just, and I think it's still super valuable and everyone loves different books
[5:18]and all the things.
[5:19]Yeah.
[5:20]But this one really has a lot of motion to it and I really, I just thoroughly enjoyed it.
[5:28]Well done.
[5:29]It was so well done.
[5:30]I think maybe that is one of the advantages to having been writing about World War Two
[5:33]for so long.
[5:34]You know, I mean, my first World War Two book came out in 2012, but this weakness
[5:39]is forgetting, but I had written it a couple years before that.
[5:42]Okay.
[5:43]So I've been kind of living in this world for a while and I think, therefore, I have
[5:46]a little bit of an advantage in being able to establish the world quickly because I know
[5:51]it very well.
[5:52]Does that make sense?
[5:53]So that maybe I can dive into the plot a little bit more quickly than I would have been
[5:57]able to do a decade ago.
[5:58]That makes absolute sense.
[5:59]You're very effective with that because at times there are more, yes, you have just the
[6:05]right number of details.
[6:06]Oh, thank you.
[6:07]Yeah.
[6:08]Absolutely.
[6:09]Tell me, though, when you were talking about that, I mean, you've been writing about World
[6:13]War Two for a long time.
[6:15]Yes.
[6:16]You've obviously been writing historical fiction for a number of years.
[6:18]What is it that keeps you there?
[6:20]Like, why is that your sweet spot?
[6:22]I never intended for it to be.
[6:23]When I wrote this weakness of forgetting in 2010 or so when it came out in 2012, I thought,
[6:29]okay, I've written my World War Two book like back to something else.
[6:32]And I did write something else after I wrote a book called The Life Intended, which was
[6:35]very different.
[6:36]It was set primarily in the present day.
[6:40]It was not historical fiction.
[6:42]But the whole time I was writing that book, which I loved, I'm still very proud of that
[6:45]book.
[6:46]But the whole time I was writing that book, I missed being in that World War Two universe.
[6:49]I missed finding those details that just make you draw your breath in and say, oh, I can't
[6:54]believe that happens.
[6:55]I want to share that with somebody.
[6:57]And I have found that every World War Two book I have written, there is something in the
[7:02]research that has led me to the next book, a question, something that makes me gasp,
[7:07]something that makes my heart pound a little more quickly.
[7:11]And that was the case with this book too.
[7:13]I do feel that sometimes readers hear, oh, it's a World War Two book.
[7:17]And they think, oh, I've read a thousand World War Two books, I'm not going to pick this
[7:20]one up.
[7:21]And I get that.
[7:22]There are a lot of World War Two books out there.
[7:24]But I do think that there are still a lot of World War Two stories that are untold.
[7:30]And I think that that time period still has a lot of lessons for us, not just in the
[7:36]way that the past really feels like it's resonating in the politics of today in some ways.
[7:42]But also because of the idea that during World War Two, the war was largely won by ordinary
[7:48]citizens standing up to do incredible things.
[7:51]And that's not the case with every war.
[7:54]Ordinary people just like you and me really played a big role in this war.
[7:58]And I think it's an important reminder to all of us in our daily lives that wherever we come
[8:02]from, whatever our stations in life are, we do have the ability to make a difference.
[8:07]And that sometimes the way toward the light is something we have to lead ourselves or we have
[8:12]to blaze that path ourselves in some ways.
[8:15]But I do want to note that even though this is still firmly a World War Two book in a
[8:19]lot of ways, 40% of the book takes place in 1960.
[8:23]So it is a foot in the World War Two genre, but also my other foot is standing in a very
[8:28]different decade across the oceans.
[8:30]So you kind of get a little bit of both with this book.
[8:33]You do get a bit of both in it.
[8:34]You're exactly right.
[8:35]There's so much that's resonant from those themes that we pull out when we learn about
[8:42]World War Two or when we think about it.
[8:44]And it seems like, and tell me if this is correct, you need redemption in your books.
[8:51]Yeah.
[8:52]Yeah.
[8:53]You're the way to put it.
[8:54]I just, or not need it just, you definitely, there's always a, they're never hopeless.
[8:59]Yeah.
[9:00]Yeah.
[9:01]And you know, and I think that's important to note because I want people to take that
[9:06]away.
[9:07]I want them to realize that in the darkest of situations, there is always hope.
[9:11]There's always, there's always a better tomorrow.
[9:14]You just have to figure out your way there.
[9:16]Yes.
[9:17]And I think that applies to us in the modern day too.
[9:20]I think the stories that take place during World War Two are a very powerful reminder of
[9:25]that lesson, which continues to resonate in our lives.
[9:28]Yeah.
[9:29]You do a really good job of drawing that forward and just presenting it for the reader in
[9:37]a way that's very beautiful.
[9:38]Your books make me equally ache and hope.
[9:44]I mean, there's just a real beauty there.
[9:47]Thank you so much.
[9:48]And I always feel like I should apologize when people are like your books may be cry.
[9:51]Your books may be ache.
[9:52]I'm like, I'm so sorry, but you had to.
[9:55]You had to get there.
[9:56]Absolutely.
[9:57]Yeah.
[9:58]Well, and it.
[10:00]It's the idea, right? All of the science around how reading fiction makes us more empathetic.
[10:05]And to give us more access to imagination, which is something we need so deeply.
[10:12]And so this idea that if you did go to that place, it means you were there.
[10:18]You were immersed in it. And so it really is the highest compliment that I can give is your words,
[10:25]the vibe, all of it. If it stays with me, then it's been a worthy amount of time spent.
[10:32]And your books are definitely like that.
[10:34]Well, thank you so much. That is a wonderful compliment and I appreciate it.
[10:37]So of course. I wanted to ask you a little bit about just what's the shape of your life?
[10:45]Because you are churning out books. You are part of friends in fiction, which seems like
[10:50]just the most fun group of friends. It is. I mean, it's just adorable. And I, I want in.
[11:01]So you're doing that, your podcast, your mom. And also you guys have live recordings in addition to
[11:07]the podcast, correct? I mean, it feels like friends in fiction has just become its own little spider web of
[11:13]fun and fun and fiction. Spider web, that's a good way to fit it. Our web of fun, exactly.
[11:21]A non-dangerous one. Just a fun web. Yes. So tell me about just what's what's a daylight for you?
[11:27]How do you how do you do it? You know, I wish I could tell you that I had some big secret for
[11:33]excellent time management. But the fact is I get up probably too early because the second I'm
[11:38]conscious in the morning, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I have a to-do list a mile long today. So I'm
[11:43]usually up by about five, 30 or six, trying to get a little bit of work done before my seven-year-old
[11:48]and my husband wake up. We get him out the door to school, although today that we are recording
[11:53]this is the last day of school. So this summer looms before us. And I'm already having anxiety about
[11:59]how the days were going to work out that 100%. Summer is like, you just throw all the balls up in the
[12:04]air and just like, I don't know where they're going to land. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yes. But in general,
[12:12]I tend to write in the mornings. I tend to try to get my email inbox cleaned out,
[12:17]although as I'm sure you know, it tends to just fill right back up again. So there's never any
[12:21]relief, yeah, of course. And then we do a lot of friends and fiction business related stuff. I
[12:26]would say more like in the afternoons or in the evenings. As you noted, we have a live show that
[12:31]it's on Facebook and YouTube on Wednesday nights. And for anyone who doesn't know friends
[12:35]and fiction, it's me, Mary Kay Andrews, Patty Kelly, Henry, and Christy Woodson-Harvey, all four of us
[12:41]are New York Times bestselling authors. And every week on our live Facebook and YouTube show
[12:47]on Wednesdays at seven Eastern, we invite other authors on and we talk about their books. And then
[12:52]we also have a podcast, a new episode drops every Friday that is co-hosted by Librarian Ron Block.
[12:58]And we also have different authors on that show every week. So it is a lot. But we love it. I mean,
[13:04]we just like you are Julia, I'm sure we are equally readers. We're writers, but we're readers
[13:10]just as much as we're writers. And it's great for us to be able to kind of dive deep into
[13:15]into other people's books too. A hundred percent. And I love that Mary Kay Andrews is on that
[13:20]list because I went through a heavy Mary Kay Andrews space where I think I just tore through her
[13:27]books day and night like in college. Yeah. I'm going to tell her you said that. That's
[13:33]great. Yes. I mean, and that's one of my kids. I was listening to one of your podcasts. And she
[13:38]was talking and they said, who is that? And I said, a woman who's written a gazillion books.
[13:41]She has. It's totally true. So I love the way that you guys interact and just the friendship you
[13:49]bring to it. There's a real kindness and goodness to your presence in the literary world. And so
[13:58]I'm just so glad that you guys do that. It's really a joy. Thank you for saying that. That really
[14:03]means a lot to me because you know, that's it's very important to all of us to be good literary
[14:07]citizens. I mean, that's that's why we started the show. We started it at the beginning of the
[14:11]pandemic as a way to connect with readers. And then as a way to help independent bookstores and
[14:16]ultimately as a way to lift up other authors too. So that's really at the very core of what we do.
[14:22]And you know, this is a tough industry. I mean, things change. You know, some books do better than
[14:27]others. You know, sometimes big opportunities come your way. Sometimes they don't. And it's nice
[14:32]to be in a boat with three people where even if the seas kind of tossing you around.
[14:39]Yes. You know, you have these people who are going to help you into a life fest and hold you
[14:43]afloat. How long can I keep this ridiculous metaphor going? I think we can go for a while.
[14:47]There's an ocean. There's a boat. There's maybe we should have oars. I don't even know.
[14:53]We'll send up a flare. Are there snacks in the boat? Because I just want to make sure you're
[14:58]okay. Also that we packed a couple bottles of wine. Perfect. You knew exactly where I was going
[15:05]with this because I feel like, you know, just and maybe a little sunscreen like, you know, whatever
[15:10]I watch. Yeah. A cast away. I really worry about sunday. I'm it. So things like that, you know,
[15:15]wanting older, all the things. We think ahead. So yes, of course, we have all those things in our
[15:20]metaphorical boats. I am here for it. Okay. So basically what you're saying is you're insanely
[15:34]efficient. Every day is exactly the same. Very rigid. Okay. Perfect. I feel like I'm listening
[15:40]well here. I'm kidding. But I love, I love that approach or I love talking to people like that
[15:48]because when someone tells me like, well, I get up before every morning and I meditate and then I
[15:53]write for two hours and I'm like, okay, I'm so happy for you. But that will not be happening in my
[15:59]life. So yeah, I basically live in a constant state of panic. 17 steps where I'm behind where I
[16:05]need to be in every single area of my life. But you know, it all gets no to eventually. So I'm just
[16:11]one of these days I'm going to learn to worry less and just do it and realize the chips are going to fall
[16:16]where they fall. And you know, the boat will still come into shore. Yes, it will. Indeed, we will
[16:23]love snacks and with wine. That's right. And we'll yeah, pack out our trash. It's going to be fine.
[16:28]It's going to be fine. No, it is. It's such a tricky time. And I think one thing I want to talk about
[16:33]with the Paris daughter, the themes of motherhood are so powerful in this. And I think that's
[16:39]why it was so it's just so heart centered. I think anyone who's had the experience of not only
[16:48]being a mother, but mothering someone you could be an aunt. You can be a person who just
[16:53]cares for someone and grows them up in the world. Right. So to mother someone and then there are
[17:00]parts of this book where you just it's very layered. I don't want to say too much. But the characters
[17:08]are flawed. Just like real human people. And it's easy to alternate between, you know, I think
[17:17]something I love about it is that you judge them at certain points and you release them at certain
[17:22]points. So there's a lot of forgiveness. And but those themes, I think because the act of mothering
[17:29]is so central and intimate that it just you can't help but put yourself in the position of
[17:37]some of these characters. And you write it so well. So it's easy to do that. So I wanted to ask
[17:43]you about that because I felt like when I was reading it, I thought, you know, Kristin is a mother.
[17:50]Yeah. How did you go there? I just I was wondering about that because I'm reading it, you know,
[17:56]just wiping tears away. I think how does she do this? Because to go into that, that place,
[18:03]you know, and there are multiple points in the book where mothers are having to make wrenching
[18:07]decisions, which is such a part of what we understand about World War II. So how did you manage that?
[18:14]Well, at first of all, thank you for all the kind words about it. And I will say I think as
[18:19]writers are best work comes from facing our deepest fears head-on. And our deepest worries about
[18:26]our own shortcomings, right? And so I in some ways think that putting these women in situations
[18:36]where they had to make essentially impossible decisions might have come a little bit from my own
[18:42]feelings about having to make decisions for my child during the pandemic. I mean, it's apples and
[18:47]oranges. You cannot compare making decisions during World War II to save your child's life,
[18:52]we're making decisions during the early days of the pandemic. But when you think back to 2020,
[18:57]when COVID was still very scary, when it felt like people were dying from it, the cases were much
[19:02]more aggressive and much deadlier. Yes, as mothers, we had to make these decisions that were
[19:09]impossible. Do I send my child to school? Do I keep my child home? There were pros and cons to both.
[19:13]And there was no real good decision. And any decision you made, you realized your child was
[19:19]going to lose things, right? Like your child was going to miss out. And that weighed really
[19:24]heavily on me at the time. So again, acknowledging that certainly that is not at all the same thing
[19:29]is what women faced during wartime when trying to save their children's lives. I felt like I
[19:35]understood a little bit of that feeling of being in an impossible predicament and feeling like all
[19:40]you had to go with was your gut as a mother. And you would do anything in the world to make life
[19:46]better for your child. But you couldn't control variables that were outside of your control,
[19:52]you know? Yes. So I think maybe that was a little bit of the root of this story. But it was also
[19:57]really in all the research I had done about World War II.
[20:00]for two and all the writing I had done about World War II.
[20:02]That was one of the things that struck me the most.
[20:04]I mean, women and men could make the decision
[20:08]to go join the resistance or to do things
[20:12]that were brave on their own.
[20:13]But when people were parents
[20:15]and they were in that same situation
[20:17]with the same things bearing down on them,
[20:19]the stakes changed.
[20:20]And I really wanted to explore that.
[20:22]How were the stakes different?
[20:24]And what would you do if you were a mother
[20:27]in the midst of wartime?
[20:28]And it was very difficult to write
[20:30]because some horrible things happened
[20:32]and without any spoilers.
[20:33]But I mean, of course they did.
[20:35]We're in the midst of a war, not everybody survives.
[20:38]And unfortunately, that's true in areas of conflict
[20:40]even today when civilian areas are bombed.
[20:45]It's not just the soldiers who were killed, right?
[20:47]I mean, it's very innocent people
[20:49]who just happened to be in the wrong place
[20:50]at the wrong time, which is heartbreaking
[20:53]and is as heartbreaking now as it was then.
[20:56]And it was hard to put myself in that position.
[20:58]I have a little boy who's seven now
[20:59]and I had to let myself go to some very dark places
[21:02]and thinking about what would I do
[21:04]if I had to send him away
[21:06]because it was his best chance of survival
[21:08]and what would I do if I lost him?
[21:11]So those are awful, awful things to think about.
[21:13]But let me actually ask you
[21:15]and I hope you don't mind if I turn it back around on you.
[21:17]Your memoir is about, partially at least,
[21:20]about motherhood also.
[21:22]Is that something you explored also?
[21:24]Did you explore having to make difficult decisions?
[21:27]You know, I didn't because,
[21:29]well, what's it's sort of the reverse for me.
[21:32]So a lot of what precipitated this really crisis for me.
[21:36]So for people that don't know,
[21:39]it's my story of depression and anxiety
[21:41]and a season of intensity with that
[21:44]after I had really become depleted,
[21:46]I'd gone back to work, all these things.
[21:48]But so much of what I feared
[21:52]and my anxiety really pivoted on my death.
[21:57]I had a really scary experience with an allergy shot
[21:59]that was leading to anaphylaxis
[22:01]and they were able to stop it.
[22:03]But it just was one of those moments
[22:05]where it put a crack in everything for me.
[22:08]And so the idea of dying and abandoning my children
[22:14]became just too much to even contemplate.
[22:17]And then, you know, it was just the anxiety
[22:20]so strange and vicious.
[22:22]And I had never experienced it like that before
[22:24]where it was like it was looking for somewhere to land
[22:27]and suddenly it had its place.
[22:29]And that was all I could think about.
[22:31]So everything was super-sized.
[22:35]So yeah, and it was actually,
[22:36]I was telling my husband,
[22:37]that was five years ago on Mother's Day,
[22:39]really when things bottomed out for me.
[22:42]And so the idea though, that I would not be there for them.
[22:47]So I think that's probably why I'm also reading this.
[22:49]It's like, that's the most difficult thing to contemplate.
[22:55]And also I think the hardest part for me
[22:58]of being a parent is you don't have control.
[23:03]I mean, it's an illusion.
[23:05]It's always an illusion.
[23:07]So true.
[23:08]And yeah.
[23:09]And I labor under that illusion
[23:11]and so reminding myself of that.
[23:13]So yeah, it's just, it's a perennial thing.
[23:16]No one wants to have to leave early, you know?
[23:19]Absolutely.
[23:20]Well, I feel like I'm gonna learn a lot
[23:22]from your memoir.
[23:22]I can't wait to read it.
[23:23]It's called Everyone But Myself, right?
[23:25]And it comes out in January.
[23:27]Yeah.
[23:27]I can't wait.
[23:28]It sounds right at my alley.
[23:29]And I think just that exploration.
[23:31]And you know, and I feel like the Paris daughter does that too.
[23:34]Just explores a little bit.
[23:36]Yes.
[23:37]And it's probably not as much as your,
[23:38]certainly not as much as your memoir does,
[23:39]but explores that idea that you don't have control.
[23:43]And you can do the absolute best.
[23:46]You can.
[23:47]And yes.
[23:48]There's no guarantee it's going to work out the way
[23:50]that you want it to.
[23:51]And that's a really unsettling feeling
[23:53]when you're responsible for these people you love
[23:56]more than anything in the world, right?
[23:58]Yes.
[23:59]And how do we hold that tension, right?
[24:01]I think that's a constant question for me.
[24:03]How do I hold the tension that these are things
[24:05]that happen?
[24:07]People die in wars.
[24:09]They die in all sorts of ways.
[24:10]Like people, we live in these fragile bodies
[24:13]in these fragile worlds.
[24:14]Yes.
[24:15]And so how do I hold that with this feeling
[24:19]like a bulletproof love?
[24:21]You know what I mean?
[24:21]It just feels like how do we put all these together?
[24:24]It's just something that always fascinates me
[24:27]and also feels heavy at times.
[24:30]But then the flip side of that is how hopeful is that, right?
[24:33]Like in the spite of all of this,
[24:35]in spite of all of that, that we can have that sort of,
[24:38]that sort of recklessness in the way we love each other.
[24:42]That's a beautiful thing to remember.
[24:45]So I love books like this for that reason.
[24:48]Well, thank you, yeah.
[24:49]And you know, I also think another thing that this book,
[24:53]that my book is sort of a reminder of is that we all
[24:56]have a well of strength within us that runs deeper than we know.
[25:00]And I think that's an important thing to remember
[25:02]as a mother too, that you can face the difficult things
[25:05]because you have, you will bring to the table
[25:09]whatever strength you need to deal
[25:11]with whatever situation you're facing.
[25:13]Even if you didn't think you had that strength, you have it.
[25:15]We all have it and we'll find it when we need it.
[25:18]So yeah, I look forward to reading that
[25:21]about that in your book too.
[25:23]And I commend you on being able to write a memoir.
[25:26]That is writing about myself is difficult for me.
[25:30]I think I wind up writing about myself,
[25:32]but I do it through these fictional characters I create.
[25:35]I think it takes a lot of strength and clarity
[25:38]to be able to put yourself so directly on the page that way.
[25:42]And I really admire people who can do that.
[25:44]Well, I appreciate that because I worry
[25:47]that it's just sort of like a quiet narcissism that is overtaking me.
[25:51]It's very brave.
[25:52]No.
[25:54]There are times where I didn't tell my husband
[25:57]a reason that I was like, I would rather chew glass
[25:59]than write another memoir about me.
[26:02]This is horrible.
[26:03]I understand.
[26:05]OK enough about you, Julie, and I'm speaking to myself here.
[26:09]So I did want to ask you, when you were talking about the reserves
[26:13]of strength and wells, before we go,
[26:15]I want to make sure we touch on just your recent life
[26:19]you were diagnosed with breast cancer.
[26:21]I was.
[26:22]And I would just love to hear about.
[26:25]Now, where were you?
[26:26]This book was already done when you were going to be outstriking.
[26:29]Yeah, yeah, it was, but I was still in the final rounds of edits.
[26:32]I think we were probably at first past pages or something.
[26:37]Like it was past the point.
[26:38]It was past the point where I could make any large changes to it.
[26:43]You know, it was pretty much done.
[26:45]Yeah, I was diagnosed at the end of October,
[26:48]just this past year, October 2022.
[26:50]It was completely a surprise.
[26:52]I just turned 44, so I was 43 at the time.
[26:55]I didn't have any relevant family history.
[26:56]I didn't have any risk factors that I knew about.
[27:00]And I didn't feel a lump.
[27:01]I just went in for my mammogram.
[27:03]And they said we see something suspicious.
[27:04]We'd like to get a biopsy.
[27:06]And I thought it's probably just assist.
[27:08]I've had cysts before.
[27:09]I'm sure it's nothing.
[27:11]And indeed, it was not nothing.
[27:12]And that thing that was not nothing turned out
[27:14]to be more aggressive than we thought to.
[27:16]So I, after they took it out on November 3rd,
[27:19]they had a lump back to me to remove it.
[27:21]The hope was that I would just need to have radiation.
[27:23]I think that's pretty common with stage one breast cancer
[27:26]that you just need radiation.
[27:28]You need a lump back to me or a mastectomy plus radiation.
[27:32]And, but because once they analyzed the tumor itself,
[27:36]it turned out to be more aggressive.
[27:38]I also needed to have three months of chemotherapy.
[27:40]So I had three months of chemotherapy
[27:42]and four weeks of daily radiation
[27:44]that just wrapped up about a month ago.
[27:46]So it's been quite a journey.
[27:48]But as you tied it into that idea of finding strength
[27:53]we didn't know we had,
[27:54]that was completely my experience.
[27:57]When I got that diagnosis, I was completely floored.
[28:02]First thought, of course, was about my child,
[28:04]my son Noah, who was six at the time.
[28:06]I thought, what if, you know, even though we knew,
[28:10]I knew intellectually it was an early stage
[28:12]and I was not going to die from it right now.
[28:15]Right.
[28:16]But your head goes to all those places.
[28:17]And you think even if we treat it now,
[28:19]what if it comes back and what if I don't get
[28:21]to see him graduate high school
[28:23]or see him get married or see all those things
[28:25]that you just kind of take for granted
[28:27]and to be there for.
[28:27]So that was terrifying.
[28:29]And it was terrifying to face this
[28:31]and to go through all of these things like chemo
[28:33]and radiation and to not know
[28:35]what was going to happen to my body
[28:36]or my schedule or my life or my brain
[28:38]or my ability to mother or my ability to write books,
[28:41]like it was very scary.
[28:42]But I also realized I had been writing myself
[28:45]into a place to deal with this for the last decade.
[28:48]I had been writing books about characters
[28:50]who find themselves in situations they didn't ask for,
[28:53]that they didn't expect,
[28:55]that they couldn't have imagined
[28:57]being able to find their way through.
[28:59]And in all of these books,
[29:00]including the Paris daughter,
[29:02]these women find a way forward.
[29:03]Because that's what we do.
[29:05]We do that as women.
[29:06]We do that as mothers.
[29:07]We put one foot in front of another.
[29:09]We find a way to make life okay for the for our children.
[29:13]We find a way to survive.
[29:15]And we find a way if we can
[29:17]to turn lemons into lemonade.
[29:19]And that's what I'm trying to do with talking about it
[29:22]as often as I can.
[29:23]I feel like having this surprise diagnosis
[29:27]because I went in for a mammogram.
[29:29]When I'm a woman who has readers
[29:32]who are in the age group that needs that reminder
[29:35]has given me a platform to be able to say to you,
[29:38]to be able to say to everyone listening out there,
[29:40]if you're over to you on your mammogram,
[29:42]please talk to your doctor about it.
[29:44]If you're not old enough for a mammogram yet,
[29:45]if you're under 40,
[29:46]talk to your doctor about a clinical breast exam.
[29:49]But just stay vigilant about it.
[29:51]If it could happen to me for absolutely no reason
[29:54]at the age of 43 and I didn't feel it,
[29:56]it can happen to you.
[29:57]So just, you know, and if it does happen.
[30:00]to you. It's okay because we're in the year 2023 and modern medicine exists. And there
[30:05]are a million ways to deal with it. And you will get to the other side too. So don't be scared.
[30:10]Okay. Like the sooner you catch something, the sooner you can deal with it. So that's my little
[30:14]PSA for the day. My public service announcements. I love it and couldn't agree more because that is
[30:21]the true, that's the true self care that we need to be doing, right? It's just being as vigilant
[30:27]for ourselves as we would be for someone we loved. Well, it's true. And I know you and I were
[30:33]talking a little bit before we went on and started recording about how as mothers we tend to put
[30:38]everyone else or even just as women, even people who are not mothers. I think we tend to put
[30:43]everyone else first and take care of everyone else. I put ourselves last in that list. But you're
[30:48]going to think about what they tell you to do in an airplane, right? We have to put your own,
[30:51]your own mask on first and then help those around you. And that's important. I mean, if you're not here
[30:56]or if you're not healthy, you can't, you can't be there to help everyone else around you. So
[31:01]yeah, you got to, you got to look out for yourself and in making sure that you're doing early
[31:05]screening as recommended by your doctor is, is an important component of that. I couldn't agree more.
[31:10]Well, that was an excellent PSA. I think, I think everyone in the boat is very happy,
[31:16]right? I think we've done it very well. You know, let's just uncork that wine now.
[31:20]The wine in the snacks. I'm ready. So true. Well, Chris, thank you for this time. This was a joy.
[31:27]I loved our conversation. I think people are going to love the Paris daughter and congratulations.
[31:33]Thank you so much and congratulations on your upcoming memoir too. I'm really excited about it.
[31:38]Thanks so much.
[31:40]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[31:44]to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for
[31:50]my newsletter at zBowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom
[31:55]every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[32:00]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.