Fiona Davis, THE SPECTACULAR
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[1:03]Fiona Davis is back on mom's and her time to read books another time for her novel, The
[1:08]Spectacular.
[1:09]This is guest hosted by Julie Chavez, who is one of our zippy books upcoming authors
[1:15]for her book, Everyone But Myself.
[1:17]This is also airing simultaneously on Julie Chavez's podcast, Ask a Librarian.
[1:23]Fiona is the New York Times best selling author of six historical fiction novels set
[1:27]in iconic New York City buildings, including the Magnolia Palace, the Doll House, the address,
[1:33]and the Lions of Fifth Avenue, which was a good morning America book club pick.
[1:36]Her novels have been chosen as one book, One Community Reads, and her articles have appeared
[1:40]in publications like The Wall Street Journal and O, The Oprah Magazine.
[1:44]She first came to New York as an actress, but fell in love with writing after getting
[1:47]a master's degree at Columbia Journalism School.
[1:50]Her books have been translated into over 20 languages and she is based in New York City.
[1:55]This Fiona Davis, welcome.
[1:58]I'm so happy to be talking with you today.
[2:00]Are these stories to chat with you again?
[2:02]Thank you so much.
[2:03]I feel so excited.
[2:04]I just went back in my calendar to see when I talked to you and it was on January 14th
[2:11]of 2022.
[2:12]Wang, Wang.
[2:13]Yes, and we talked just barely about the beginnings of the spectacular and it was so
[2:20]fun for me.
[2:21]It felt like such a full circle moment because you were one of my very first guests on
[2:26]Ask a Librarian and I have a vivid memory of calling my sister and being like, guess who's
[2:31]is going to come on the podcast?
[2:33]Fiona Davis and we talked about it and I said, and I emailed her, it was just so exciting.
[2:39]So being able to interview you for moms don't have time to read books is a gift and
[2:44]I'm just always happy to spend time with you.
[2:46]Yes, and you have such great questions.
[2:49]It's my absolute delight.
[2:50]Oh, good.
[2:51]I'm glad.
[2:52]Well, I'm glad that you have a high bar for that now.
[2:54]So hopefully I can disappoint.
[2:56]We'll get started.
[2:59]Well, I think your books too are so easy to have questions about because you've been writing
[3:06]historical fiction for a number of years, but really, I feel like we talked about this
[3:10]before where it was not only historical fiction, it's really centered around buildings
[3:16]in New York City, which is just such a cool premise.
[3:19]So when we spoke last, the Magnolia Palace was about to come out and then now today we're
[3:25]talking about the spectacular.
[3:27]But I want to start with the cover.
[3:29]I don't think I've seen a more beautiful cover recently.
[3:32]I love it.
[3:33]Were you involved in that at all?
[3:35]Did you have any say?
[3:37]Thank you so much.
[3:38]Yeah, you know, I when we talked about it, I wanted it to be a little different from
[3:43]your typical historical fiction cover, which is usually a woman, her back turned to you
[3:49]or if you see the side of her head, she looks very wistful.
[3:52]And you know, I think those covers are great and I have some that I absolutely cherish
[3:57]that have been mined by Dutton.
[3:59]But this just felt different because it's a bit of a mix.
[4:01]It's historical fiction, it's a romance, it's a bit of a thriller.
[4:05]And so I wanted something that showed that.
[4:07]And so by just having the building, which is Radio City and all its neon glory, you know,
[4:13]with that art deco soaring marquee, I felt like it just summed everything up and it felt
[4:18]powerful and dynamic and something just a little unusual from your historical fiction
[4:24]genre.
[4:25]Yeah, I think they did a perfect job with that and you're exactly right.
[4:28]I think the color palette also, like you said, with the neon, but then kind of what's
[4:32]coming up from the building, it just is so eye catching.
[4:37]And I think it really fits nicely with the themes of the book too and the rockettes and
[4:41]all the things.
[4:42]So kudos on that way to go cover team at Dutton Books.
[4:47]Very pleased.
[4:48]For the part man headed by Christopher Lynn there, they rock.
[4:51]Oh, amazing.
[4:52]Okay, so it has a stunning cover.
[4:54]Tell people, what is the spectacular about and then we'll get into how you chose it?
[4:59]Sure.
[5:00]So this spectacular takes place in the 1950s and it's about a young woman who's a dance
[5:06]teacher and she decides she wants to become a rockette.
[5:09]And this is going against her father's wishes.
[5:12]And so she auditions and she gets in and it's about her journey finding her own feet,
[5:18]you know, learning how to dance with this precision dance troupe, which is not easy.
[5:23]And really discovering herself.
[5:25]And then at the same time, there's a series of bombings going on in New York that are
[5:30]based on actual, an actual bomber.
[5:32]Yeah.
[5:33]And so she gets caught up in the hunt for this bomber for very personal reasons.
[5:38]And is teamed up with a resident psychiatrist named Peter.
[5:42]And together, they're kind of an odd couple.
[5:44]She's very introverted and brilliant and she's very dynamic and creative and outgoing.
[5:49]And together, they have to try and track down what's going on and pretty much save the
[5:53]city of New York.
[5:54]And I like to say it's just a mix.
[5:56]It's romance, it's thriller, it's a little bit of everything.
[5:59]And it also gives people a really fun backstage glimpse at the life of a radio city rockette.
[6:04]I think that's, I mean, obviously that's the perfect description of it, but it's such
[6:09]a fun book to read.
[6:11]I think it's, I think it's going to have such broad appeal because of exactly what you're
[6:16]saying.
[6:17]There are elements for everyone in it.
[6:20]And so I feel like you've done such a good job with creating that.
[6:26]And I love its origin story, which is you received a letter from a former rocket who was
[6:33]married to, I was reading it today.
[6:35]And her husband ran the stage lighting for the stage shows.
[6:40]And so she reaches out to you.
[6:42]Was that like, had that ever happened before that you'd gotten a letter like that?
[6:47]I've gotten, you know, it was an email for my website and I've gotten emails where people
[6:50]have said, oh, you should consider this building or on or what about this one?
[6:55]And I get those a lot, which I love because it means readers are really engaged and want
[6:58]to, you know, be part of it.
[7:00]Yeah.
[7:01]But this was different because it was right when I didn't have any idea what I was
[7:05]going to write next.
[7:06]And I was really panicking a little about where do I turn?
[7:11]And so she wrote an email and she said, I'm in my 80s, I live in South Carolina, I'm a
[7:15]former rocket.
[7:16]And if you want to know all about radio city musical, you should give me a call.
[7:20]And so of course I did her name Sandy.
[7:22]And she was lovely.
[7:23]And you're right.
[7:24]She met her husband Bob.
[7:25]They were both 19 and he ran the lighting board at Radio City.
[7:29]They've been together ever since.
[7:30]Amazing.
[7:31]And we just had this great phone call and she had all of this interesting archival
[7:34]material that she'd saved.
[7:36]So programs and photographs and here's the daily schedule.
[7:40]And that was really what grounded me and made me think, okay, I can do this because I
[7:44]have the, I have the source, I have the background material.
[7:48]And I know nothing about dance and I am not a dancer.
[7:51]But I think I'm going to give it a go.
[7:54]You write it so well, though.
[7:55]I mean, I, I found myself thinking as I was reading, I thought, was Fiona a dancer?
[8:00]And I just don't remember that like, no, you were so funny as yesterday.
[8:04]Last night I had a dream that I had to go to Europe for a dance conference.
[8:07]I was like, but I don't dance when he can tell where it's all seeping into me.
[8:13]But I was lucky enough, you know, having been a journalist, I know when I don't know
[8:16]something how to find people who do.
[8:18]So I interviewed a number of rockets, some who had danced on the stage recently, some
[8:22]who were in their 80s who danced there in the 50s and 60s.
[8:26]And the thing about dancers is they tend to be really eloquent.
[8:29]I don't know if it's some kind of mind body connection, but they're able to put
[8:34]into words what it's like to dance and what it's like to be on stage in a way that
[8:40]was really made my job so much easier because they fleshed out, okay, here's what happened
[8:45]and here's what you had to do.
[8:46]And this is what you're to be careful about.
[8:48]And that way it makes me sound like I know what I'm talking about.
[8:52]Well, I'm happy for all of it because it works.
[8:56]It's working.
[8:57]They did a good job.
[8:58]That's a really interesting question.
[9:00]I wonder if they have, that makes me wonder about like the brain science for dancers.
[9:05]You know what I mean?
[9:06]If they could sort of scan their brains how they are lit up differently than people in
[9:12]other professions.
[9:13]Yeah.
[9:14]I think that the neural plasticity where, you know, when you have to have your body
[9:17]move in a certain way, it keeps your mind so active and engaged.
[9:21]Yes.
[9:22]This character carries on.
[9:24]I think you're exactly right.
[9:26]And you know, I just did a wall squat earlier while I was reading a book for like 30 seconds.
[9:31]So it's pretty much the same.
[9:33]I mean, exactly.
[9:34]I do.
[9:35]I do that when I'm waiting for the elevator.
[9:37]Yes.
[9:38]I'm hoping.
[9:39]Yeah.
[9:40]You're hoping that those wall add up to something.
[9:43]Yeah.
[9:44]And I hope it like start.
[9:45]I'm on the 10th floor.
[9:46]So I hope it's like at 11.
[9:47]So I don't have to hold it.
[9:48]But not one.
[9:50]That's such a good idea because then you're forced into it, right?
[9:55]To see the dark.
[9:56]Yeah.
[9:57]I was reading something the other day about menopause.
[9:58]And I was like, oh, I need to do.
[10:00]more random things like this, which my children can mock me for. I don't know. I don't know why
[10:05]I'm trying. It just feels like an uphill battle. But hey, whatever. I really, there's a line
[10:12]early on in the book where you talked about Marion tried to explain Marion being the main character.
[10:17]She tried to explain how magical it all was, but she found herself unable to find the words.
[10:22]So once you started the research, did you get to tour radio city? Like did you get to do
[10:26]some of that? And did you find yourself with that same sort of feeling about any of it?
[10:32]Or was it easy for you to put into words? Yeah, I mean, honestly, just I was able to get a tour
[10:37]and just standing on that stage and looking out into that, you know, there's 6,200 seats
[10:43]out there. It's enormous. And so you, yeah, your hearts and your throat, even just standing there
[10:49]doing nothing. And so that was very helpful. And it was helpful to get a sense of what it was like backstage
[10:55]because surrounding the theater are seven floors of offices and rehearsal spaces. And,
[11:01]you know, back in the 50s, when the book is set, there was a lounge for the dancers. There was a
[11:06]dormitory when they had to stay over if they rehearsed late into the night. There was a costume
[11:12]department, a shoe and hat department, a poster department. It was this city that went on behind.
[11:18]And it really is like a maze. It's it's quite something. So that was very helpful just to
[11:22]understand, especially how it was laid out back then. That's perfect. I loved that scene
[11:28]where Bunny was giving her a tour because I could kind of see it as it was coming together. And
[11:32]just the machines that exist behind the magic, wherever that is, I find that so fascinating how those
[11:42]are built and kept that also when you were talking about Sandy having kept all those materials
[11:48]that makes me realize that I am, I'm a total purger. I am throwing everything away constantly.
[11:54]And so when you say that, I'm like, oh man, what am I going to regret later? I don't know.
[11:58]I'm excited. I know. I know. But your children won't resent you when they have to clean out your
[12:03]house. So it's so true. I should leave them a well appointed note that explains why they can love
[12:08]me more because I will not have to rent a 30 foot dumpster throw away all my crap.
[12:14]Yeah, that's a good point. Okay. I like that. Thanks. Thanks for that paradigm shift.
[12:20]What was when you were doing the research, was there anything that surprised you?
[12:25]You know, I was surprised at the sisterhood of these dancers because, you know,
[12:31]I'd ask, well, was there any infighting or, you know, anything like that going on behind the scenes
[12:37]with all these dancers who are smushed into the dressing rooms and, you know, basically living
[12:42]together for three or four weeks at a time until they got a week off? And they all said, no,
[12:48]absolutely not. It was just a period of joy and freedom. And especially for these women who in the
[12:52]50s, you could either be really a nurse, a teacher or a secretary. Yes. We're independent,
[13:00]making a living, earning their own money, you know, dancing on this iconic theater stage.
[13:05]And they just enjoyed it so much. And also learning that the man who founded the Rockettes,
[13:11]whose name was Russell Markert, was just beloved. He was a real father figure. And I think his
[13:17]dynamic and the way he moved in the world really set it up so that these women could really
[13:22]join forces and become fast friends for life. It sounds like, yes, he created the perfect
[13:30]conditions for them to flourish. And that I think I had never considered that it was so
[13:36]counter-cultural at that time for him to do that and provide that space for them and for
[13:42]them to be earning their own money. I mean, there were so many times I put this book down. I was like,
[13:45]man, being a woman in the 50s, not quite the business. No, I mean, you couldn't you couldn't open
[13:51]your own checking account. You couldn't have a credit card. Like you, you were so limited in your
[13:56]choices. And one of my favorite memories of one of the Rockettes shared with me was walking down
[14:01]Fifth Avenue in the middle of the night, locked arm and arm, singing at the top of their lungs.
[14:06]Oh, I love that. Yeah. What a gift and what a memory for them. Oh, I'm sure it's fun to hear that.
[14:13]Do you enjoy the interviews more or the like reading on your own in terms of research? What do
[14:20]you like the most? I love the interviews. There's just nothing like it. And you learned so many
[14:24]fun things like one mentioned that the conductor, one of the conductors on the last show of the
[14:30]day, because they did four shows a day. Every time I read that was like, that is insane. Yeah,
[14:35]600 kicks a day. Never mind our wall sits. Yeah, right. Here we are. I hope it's only one
[14:41]floor away. I don't think we're cut out to be Rockettes. I don't think so. Okay, continue.
[14:48]I am set to respect. Yeah. Sorry, last show of the day. Yeah. So the last show of the day that
[14:53]this conductor would speed up so he could catch his train. So they work. And it's just that kind
[14:59]of detail that you learn makes it feel like, okay, this is going to be really specific. And that
[15:05]I hope really anchors the reader in the story and makes them feel like, okay, they're confident that
[15:10]they're not only learning something interesting, but having a really good time doing it. Absolutely.
[15:16]I really liked also that the way that you explained the Rockettes need for precision, but that
[15:25]that precision had to trump their individual expression. And especially as dancers like the tension
[15:33]between that, that they have to have talent and expression, but not too much. I was fascinated
[15:40]by that and the fact that they don't touch. I still can't figure that out. Yeah. And so in the kick
[15:46]line, you know, it looks like they're all hanging out to each other with their hands behind
[15:49]each other's backs. But in fact, there's a good few inches of space between the palm of one's hand
[15:55]and the back of the other dancer, which makes sense for safety as soon as I read it, I thought,
[16:00]okay, I see that. But what an illusion. Yes. Yeah. And that's what it's about. It's all about
[16:06]this illusion that they're completely the same dancer. Yes. One after another. And so Mary and the
[16:13]main character is based on an actress named Vera Allen. Okay, it was a big movie star, but she started
[16:19]as a Rockette. And she just couldn't fit in because if if Russell Marker wanted her to do a kick,
[16:24]you know, shoulder height, hers would be eye height. She just couldn't help herself, but overdo
[16:30]and she eventually quit before she was fired. And when the famous famous actress, she was in
[16:36]white Christmas and all these wonderful movies. And I just thought that's an interesting dynamic.
[16:41]You know, that is the question that the book raises is what is the cost of really suppressing
[16:45]your own individuality and creativity for the good of the greater whole, whether it's a precision
[16:51]dance line or working for a major corporation, you know, when do you make your voice heard?
[16:57]And when do you fit in in order to, you know, make the job work? It's a really deep question.
[17:04]And I think you do it also for Mary and the main character, not only in that piece of her life,
[17:09]but in other parts of her life. And so that really put me in a mind of thinking through gosh,
[17:17]if that's me, how am I making, how am I weighing these things? So I think the the way that you did
[17:24]that and seeing these choices that she has to make that are not easy or straightforward. I think
[17:31]was really powerful. I really enjoyed that. I was super invested. I was really dying to know what
[17:37]was going to happen. Oh, good. Good. Yeah, it was, it really did feel very thrill or ask. I was
[17:44]definitely turning the pages. I have a question for you. What's your least favorite part of research?
[17:49]Like, what's the thing that you think I'd rather do less than do this? You know, it's, I think
[17:56]in general, there's this general anxiety that descends when I've picked the building, I know I want
[18:01]to do it. And then I get a legal pad and I start writing on the very first page, all of the sources
[18:06]I need to do. And it's like following, you know, a map where I'll watch a clip on YouTube and that will
[18:12]send me to a book. And then that will send me to a person to call. And then it just grows longer and
[18:18]and I'm just riddled with anxiety thinking, I'll never understand this. There's so much I'm missing.
[18:24]And and that's just an awful feeling in that last for at least a month as I'm getting my
[18:31]feet wet. And then after a while, it starts to sink in. And then I hit a tipping point
[18:38]where I either have like the first line in my head or I have a really good idea of the character
[18:42]or a plot twist. And that's when I know it's time to pull back from the research and start
[18:47]focus on the on the plotting. And so yeah, I'd say it's just that general feeling of panic
[18:54]is the worst thing in the world. And we'll there be something here. Once I've done all this work,
[19:01]well, I have something to play with. And so far every book I have, which is a wonderful thing.
[19:06]But that is good to hear. I thank you for sharing that because I think that we do talk about
[19:11]often, you know, the magic involved in writing a book and these things that do come together. And
[19:17]like you're saying, they often do. But there is always an element of, is this going to work? I mean,
[19:24]you just, you don't know there's such an act of faith in it. So I didn't even think about that
[19:28]where you're really plugging in a lot of hours. Yeah, you have to download. Yeah, you're
[19:33]feeding your head is the way I feel. You know, are you a delight to live with during that month of
[19:39]panic? Would you say? As long as I have a glass of wine, you know, near the day, I'm fine.
[19:45]Good. Yeah. No, it's probably not because I'm, you know, it's all I want to talk about.
[19:50]Oh, I learned this today. And did you know this? And oh, no, yeah.
[19:53]Something things off people and just sharing everything I've learned and trying to let it settle in my
[19:59]head.
[20:00]Well, it sounds like you really try to inhabit that world.
[20:04]So your process is, you know, you're really fully putting yourself
[20:08]immersing yourself there.
[20:09]And yeah, you just have to drag friends and family members down with you.
[20:13]I mean, right?
[20:14]I just feel like that's what they have to do to love us.
[20:16]They're, you're welcome.
[20:17]They're there for exactly.
[20:19]You're welcome.
[20:20]I'm part of your life.
[20:20]And that means you're going to listen to me say the word book a million times.
[20:26]I really, okay.
[20:29]So here's the question.
[20:30]Now, have you received any more emails or letters for your next project?
[20:36]I mean, are you already working on the next thing?
[20:38]Cause I feel like you're always, I mean, you, you turn and burn my friend.
[20:42]You get through that month long of panic and you just get it done.
[20:45]I do.
[20:46]And I think that's only partly because there's so much in my head.
[20:48]I have to write quickly or I'll forget it.
[20:50]Okay.
[20:50]That makes sense.
[20:51]No, not because I'm a fast writer necessarily,
[20:54]but that I just want to make sure I get it on the page.
[20:57]Yeah.
[20:57]So it's about a year and a half in between books.
[20:59]So and it takes, you know, once you've turned in a manuscript, it takes about six months
[21:04]before it comes out.
[21:05]So you have that, that downtime.
[21:08]And so I am, I, this is not from a letter I received, but I, the next book is going
[21:12]to be said at the Met Museum.
[21:14]Oh my gosh.
[21:15]Yes.
[21:16]So I just got back from a trip to Egypt to do some mummy research and some Egyptian
[21:21]artifact research, which was amazing.
[21:25]And so it'll be partly set in the Egyptian wing from the point of view of an
[21:28]assistant curator in 1978.
[21:32]Okay.
[21:32]It'll jump back to Egypt in the 1930s.
[21:34]And it's also from the point of view of an assistant to the Met Gala in 1978.
[21:40]And so you've got this very glamorous, you know, party of the year thing going on.
[21:45]And then this, you know, Egyptian artifacts and, and mummies.
[21:51]So it's, I like the contrast.
[21:52]So we'll see where it goes.
[21:53]Absolutely.
[21:55]Can you finagle an invitation to the Met Gala out of this?
[21:58]I feel like you can.
[21:59]Right?
[21:59]It didn't work this year, but let's keep our fingers crossed.
[22:03]Let me know if you need me to vouch for you.
[22:04]I know once, I know ones of people and I'm happy to connect you to them.
[22:09]As long as I can do where, where, you know, my, my normal outfit, I don't know if
[22:13]I could, you know, wear feathers or spangles.
[22:15]I don't know if that will work.
[22:17]Uh, those outfits are next level, I have to say.
[22:21]And at the time, I look at them.
[22:22]I'm like, and I don't understand fashion at the end.
[22:25]Wow.
[22:25]Exactly.
[22:27]I wanted to ask you.
[22:29]So one of the things that you talk about in the book is Parkinson's.
[22:34]And because one of the characters is suffering from Parkinson's or has been
[22:39]diagnosed, and obviously that was in the 1950s.
[22:42]Now, I know that you have shared publicly also that you have been diagnosed
[22:46]with Parkinson's and I'm so glad that you share that.
[22:50]I actually have the Michael J. Fox documentary on my list because you
[22:53]had recommended it.
[22:54]So great.
[22:55]I can't wait to watch it.
[22:56]What was so for you?
[23:00]How was writing about that?
[23:03]What did, was there anything you found for yourself in writing about it?
[23:08]And then including it in the book?
[23:10]Yeah, that's a great question.
[23:12]Yeah, what happened to me was in August of 2020, I found out that the
[23:17]lines of 5th Avenue, which had just been published, had hit the New York
[23:19]Times bestseller list.
[23:21]And then the very next day I went to the doctor and was told I had Parkinson's.
[23:26]And so it was quite the roller coaster and all during lockdown, by the way.
[23:30]So, you know, you weren't quite sure if you were coming or going.
[23:33]Right.
[23:34]And I'm really lucky in that my symptoms are really minor.
[23:37]It's a tremor, it's very well controlled by medication at the moment,
[23:42]which is great.
[23:43]But I had a number of people say to me, you know, yes, I have Parkinson's,
[23:48]but I don't want to tell anyone because they'll think I'm old or, you know,
[23:53]I might get fired from my job.
[23:54]And I just thought, you know, this is kind of like breast cancer was 30 years
[23:58]ago where no one talked about it.
[24:00]Yes.
[24:00]And there's definitely power in numbers.
[24:03]And so the more people come out and say, Hey, I have Parkinson's.
[24:06]And this is what it looks like.
[24:08]The more we can mobilize to, you know, deal with research and get some political power going.
[24:16]And so for me, it's helpful always to work out things in a book.
[24:21]And I think that's why we do creative things.
[24:23]You know, it just helps to process the world around us.
[24:26]And it's not only writing a book, it's a few right, you know, like to write poetry
[24:30]in your off time or if you sing badly in the shower, anything to express yourself
[24:35]in some way is helpful.
[24:36]And so I didn't want it to be a heavy Parkinson's book.
[24:39]So it's just lightly dotted in there.
[24:42]Yes.
[24:42]But I wanted to include it because that was a way for me to process when I was going through
[24:47]and what might be ahead for me.
[24:49]And so that was really helpful and just to help get the word out as well.
[24:53]Yeah.
[24:54]Has that been something that you have?
[24:57]I mean, I'm sure you're a very thoughtful person.
[25:00]So I'm sure to some extent this is happening for you.
[25:02]But it's that's, you know, do you feel like you find a piece about it?
[25:09]And then is that disrupted and you have to rebuild it?
[25:11]I mean, how does how does that process work for you personally?
[25:15]In terms of writing about it, in terms of writing about it.
[25:18]And then also just in terms of dealing with that being part of your story.
[25:23]Yeah.
[25:23]Yeah.
[25:23]Yeah.
[25:23]It's interesting.
[25:24]There are days where I worry about the future.
[25:28]Yeah.
[25:28]And there are days that I'm walking down the streets of New York and thinking I am strong.
[25:32]I am healthy and I better enjoy this moment.
[25:35]Yeah.
[25:36]You know, keep that in your head.
[25:39]Yeah.
[25:39]And so in a way, it's a gift because you do appreciate where you are right now
[25:44]because it's pretty good.
[25:46]Yeah.
[25:46]And you know, and luckily there's so much research and so much change going on.
[25:51]Even in the past month, there's been some major breakthroughs.
[25:55]And you know, over a million people in the US have it.
[25:57]It's the fastest growing neurodegenerative disease after Alzheimer's.
[26:02]And so, you know, I think that people are starting to kick and scream and get it noticed
[26:08]and get some work done about it.
[26:10]Well, when you included that fact in the author's note, I was surprised by that.
[26:14]I had not that that was the case.
[26:16]So taking a hard left hand swerve here, just right off the street.
[26:23]You know what I mean, right?
[26:25]What is a what's your current advice?
[26:29]And I say current because I feel like I would imagine that over a career like yours,
[26:34]which is extended for so many years and is so well deserved in that way.
[26:39]I love watching just and seeing the breadth of what you've done and where you're involved.
[26:44]So what's your current best advice for people who want to write a book?
[26:52]Yeah, I would say don't ever think it's too late.
[26:54]I didn't start writing until I was in my late 40s.
[26:57]I don't think I knew that.
[26:59]Yeah, yeah, I think it throws me off.
[27:03]I think you are in your late 40s, Fiona.
[27:06]No, I, you know, in fact, when I was younger, I never imagined writing a book.
[27:10]I couldn't imagine doing it.
[27:13]And it was only by doing many different things, being an actress and then a journalist and
[27:17]then just thinking, OK, you know, why not try and write a book?
[27:21]What's there to lose?
[27:22]And and feeling like, OK, now I have something to talk about because I've, you know,
[27:27]I've gone through ups and downs and and now I feel like I have something to say.
[27:32]And so I would say, you know, don't feel like you have to publish your first book
[27:37]by the time you're 30 or it's all over.
[27:39]Yeah, plenty of time to go out and live your life.
[27:43]And then, you know, for me, I just started taking workshops and and learning everything
[27:48]I could and reading books by Anne Lamont and Stephen King on how to write and just letting
[27:52]it seep into me slowly without any pressure to write, you know, the next big thing.
[27:58]And I just wrote a book that I wanted to read.
[28:01]What a gift.
[28:02]You're so right.
[28:03]It's not too late and looping all the way around, back around at the spectacular.
[28:07]It's not 1950 and you can get a credit card if you want.
[28:13]Exactly.
[28:14]There's just so much great news here, friends.
[28:16]Like, I can leave my house without a male relative.
[28:19]I, you know, it's great.
[28:21]It's great.
[28:22]Exactly.
[28:24]Well, I am just, I'm so glad for the person that you are and the author that you are too.
[28:30]What's your greatest hope for?
[28:34]I guess this book specifically, let's center it on that.
[28:38]Like, what what's your hope for this spectacular?
[28:41]Oh, I, you know, I hope it reaches readers who might not pick up historical fiction or readers
[28:48]who might not, you know, who might poo-poo romance.
[28:52]I hope it, I hope it attracts readers who kind of see the cover and they go.
[28:57]I, you know, I want to know more about this time period or this building and get sucked
[29:00]into this story and then on the way, you know, learn something as interesting either
[29:05]about themselves or about the world around them.
[29:08]Yeah, I love it.
[29:10]And just one quick aside too to that, the criminal profiling piece.
[29:14]We didn't even talk about that.
[29:15]But the idea that that was not not that it came into being at one point was, I mean,
[29:23]maybe I'm dumb.
[29:24]I don't know.
[29:24]But I was like, oh, my gosh, that didn't occur to me that that wasn't accepted protocol
[29:29]or science at a certain point.
[29:31]Right.
[29:31]And that's when I, you know, when I'm looking at a book, I'm looking for the surprises in terms
[29:35]of research.
[29:36]Yes.
[29:36]And so learning that this guy set 32 bombs over the course of 16 years and seriously
[29:41]injured 15 people in New York City, putting them in iconic New York City locations, including
[29:47]Radio City twice.
[29:49]And then on top of that, learning that it was solved by using criminal profiling for the
[29:53]very first time and the, you know, the reaction to the police early on about, well, you
[29:57]don't know that.
[29:58]How can you know that?
[30:00]and then the fact that, you know,
[30:02]it turned out to be exactly right.
[30:04]It was, that was for me,
[30:06]a really fun hook to include.
[30:08]Absolutely, I'm sure when you hit that one,
[30:10]you're like, and pater, let's do this.
[30:13]Yes, that's amazing.
[30:16]Well, I just wanna finish up by saying,
[30:19]I've been thinking about my interview with you for months now,
[30:23]and so excited to talk to you about this book.
[30:27]But I also have to tell you how grateful I am for you,
[30:31]because when I look back to our interview
[30:34]on January 14th, you graciously accepted my,
[30:39]you know, cold call-in by like,
[30:41]hey, can I interview you?
[30:42]And you were so lovely.
[30:45]I was sweating like a farm animal in the midst of summer
[30:49]because I was so nervous.
[30:51]And you were just so kind and gracious,
[30:55]and I have said that about you so many times since then.
[30:59]Like, you are a gracious person in the literary world.
[31:03]And without you and the other guests who said yes early on,
[31:07]I wouldn't be able to have unlocked this part of me
[31:11]that I've enjoyed so much.
[31:12]So it's a gift and I'm so grateful.
[31:16]So thank you for just personally,
[31:18]thank you for being part of my world in that way.
[31:21]It's a gift.
[31:22]Oh, thank you.
[31:23]You made my day.
[31:24]And right back at you, you are natural at this.
[31:26]This is, you have a gift yourself.
[31:28]And thank you for letting us be able to talk about our books.
[31:32]And I think you pull out the real personality
[31:35]in the interviewee.
[31:37]And that's not easy.
[31:38]So we appreciate that.
[31:39]Well, thank you.
[31:40]I, who knew I like to talk so much?
[31:43]Oh, wait.
[31:44]My mom did.
[31:45]And she talks about that all the time
[31:47]because I have two talkers.
[31:48]And sometimes I say they don't ever shut up.
[31:50]And she's like, wow, Julie, I wonder what that's like.
[31:53]To have a child who talks constantly.
[31:55]Can't relate.
[31:55]Oh, wait, yes, I can.
[31:58]Well, thank you.
[31:59]I'm wishing all the success and can't wait for your next book.
[32:03]I loved it.
[32:04]When your book comes out,
[32:05]I already have another one to look forward to.
[32:07]Yes, I just have to write it.
[32:09]Oh, oh, that.
[32:11]OK, so if you can just get that on, you know,
[32:13]as soon as you can, that'd be great.
[32:14]All right.
[32:15]Thanks so much, Fiona.
[32:16]Thank you.
[32:17]I really appreciate it.
[32:19]Thanks for listening to this episode of Mom's Don't Have
[32:21]Time to Read Books.
[32:22]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebiowans
[32:26]and at moms don't have time to read books.
[32:28]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowans.com
[32:30]and sign up for my virtual book club
[32:32]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[32:34]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[32:37]for the Sound Editing.
[32:38]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[32:40]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.