Laura Hankin, THE DAYDREAMS
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30 minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
[0:15]I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year, and fiction
[0:20]and memoir.
[0:21]Our books are already out now.
[0:23]You can check it out on zippybooks.com.
[0:26]And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag, where we have lots of wonderful essays and
[0:30]lifestyle features.
[0:31]That's at zippymag.com.
[0:33]We have classes, it's a B-Classist.com, and I recently opened a book store in LA called
[0:39]Zippy's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue at 11th Street in San Monica.
[0:45]I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings.
[0:49]But this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018, and no matter what
[0:55]I do, this is basically my favorite thing.
[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:04]Laura Hagen is the author of The Daydreams.
[1:06]And I last interviewed Laura right before the pandemic shut down.
[1:11]I think her episode came out during lockdown.
[1:14]But anyway, this is her new book.
[1:17]Laura is an author screenwriter and performer who writes novels that you can read on a beach,
[1:21]but also for a book club.
[1:23]They include her latest book The Daydreams, which we're talking about, which is one of the
[1:26]quote, Best Be Treats of 2023, according to Harper's Bazaar.
[1:30]Happy and you know it, which was a book of the month and library read selection.
[1:33]That's what we talked about last time.
[1:35]And a special place for women, as seen on the late show with Stephen Colbert.
[1:39]She has some film and TV projects in development and her musical comedy has been featured
[1:43]in outlets like The Washington Post and The New York Times.
[1:46]She is based in Washington, D.C. where she wants fell off a treadmill twice in one day.
[1:50]Welcome Laura.
[1:51]Thanks for coming back on mom's then her time to read books to discuss The Daydreams
[1:54]and novel.
[1:55]It's such a pleasure to be back with you.
[1:57]So, okay, you were the author, one of three authors featured at the very first ever
[2:03]publicist event I was invited to.
[2:05]Really?
[2:06]You're such a pro.
[2:07]I had no idea it was your first time there.
[2:09]I think so.
[2:10]I think maybe I'd gone to like one or two lunches, but I was invited from Berkeley to come
[2:14]to like a cocktail party on this beautiful like rooftop and I was like, that's so cool.
[2:19]They're inviting me.
[2:20]Of course, I'm going to come, you know?
[2:22]I remember that event.
[2:23]And it was so fun and I'm so glad that I got to do it before the world shut down.
[2:29]Totally.
[2:30]You're with Stephanie Robl, where you with Stephanie Robl, yeah, Stephanie Robl and Kathleen
[2:34]West.
[2:35]I think I'm Kathleen West.
[2:36]That's right.
[2:37]Oh my gosh.
[2:38]And you're all like still writing.
[2:39]So there you go.
[2:40]Have you stayed in touch?
[2:41]Yeah, we have.
[2:43]We message a lot on Instagram and actually Stephanie moved to New York.
[2:47]So I think when I'm up there for book events for The Daydreams, I'm going to hopefully
[2:51]try to see her in person again.
[2:53]Okay.
[2:54]And then we did a podcast, which we did like six months before your book came out.
[2:56]Do you remember that?
[2:57]It was like so ridiculously early.
[2:59]I did.
[3:00]And we made some joke like, oh, like, you know, the world doesn't end and then it was
[3:04]like COVID, right?
[3:05]It wasn't.
[3:06]Isn't that what happened?
[3:07]Yeah, I think we recorded it in like late 2019 and then yeah, we single-handedly brought
[3:13]the pandemic.
[3:14]It was us.
[3:15]It was us.
[3:16]So what was your pub date or month for that book?
[3:18]Happy, happy when you do it.
[3:19]It was May 2020.
[3:20]It was, right.
[3:21]Yeah.
[3:22]So in some ways, I was lucky and that like, I really feel for the authors who had books
[3:26]coming out like March 2020 or even April, because at least by May, people had figured
[3:33]out a little bit how to pivot to Zoom and Instagram lives and stuff like that.
[3:38]And people were a little bit beyond the initial like, oh my God, I'm panicking so much
[3:41]I can't pay attention to anything else and people were just kind of bored and wanted
[3:46]to read.
[3:47]Yeah.
[3:48]So that was nice.
[3:49]That was a perk.
[3:50]Yeah.
[3:51]I can't even joke, but it is good that no, I mean, any renewed interest in writing is great,
[3:56]but it is hard.
[3:58]I felt so much for the authors who had books coming out during that time, as you know,
[4:01]but anyway, and then you had another book that we didn't even get to talk about in between
[4:05]this book and that book.
[4:07]So we talked about happy and you know it, right?
[4:09]That's what is happy and you know it.
[4:11]And then a special place for women, maybe talk about both of those books and then we'll
[4:15]get to this book.
[4:16]Can you do like a quick like one sentence on your past over?
[4:21]We could talk backlist.
[4:22]Absolutely.
[4:23]It's funny because now my head is so full of the daydreams that I'm like, can I even
[4:28]without the little plot summary for the other ones, but I'm going to try.
[4:31]Okay.
[4:32]So happy and you know it is about a failed musician who takes a job singing for a play
[4:37]group of wealthy moms on the upper east side and then gets drawn into like their glamorous
[4:42]lives and their dark secrets.
[4:44]I love that book.
[4:45]That was awesome.
[4:46]It was very fun.
[4:47]And it was like very much based on my time working as a play group musician.
[4:52]So I was writing it from that perspective, but it's funny because now I'm actually pregnant
[4:57]now.
[4:58]Oh my gosh.
[4:59]No way.
[5:00]That's awesome.
[5:01]I'm like, do I dare reread the book knowing what I know now?
[5:05]I wonder if I'll like it even more or be like, God, I would wait until you know like
[5:11]year two or something and then go back and reread it.
[5:16]And so a special place for women is about an undercover journalist who decides that she's
[5:21]going to infiltrate this rumored secret society for like the fanciest women in New York.
[5:28]And then, you know, she gets pulled in far deeper than she had planned to.
[5:32]Excellent.
[5:33]Did you get did you get to infiltrate any secret societies as research?
[5:37]Did you let you in?
[5:38]Did you?
[5:39]I don't think I can say.
[5:40]No.
[5:42]I did not get invited into any secret societies, sadly, but I'm still open to it if anyone
[5:48]listened.
[5:49]Maybe we should make our own is really what should happen.
[5:54]Yeah.
[5:55]We'll talk about that after we go back.
[5:59]Okay.
[6:00]And that brings us to the daydreams.
[6:03]So now you can give your highly polished top of mind pitch for the daydreams.
[6:08]Right.
[6:09]Anyone listening can see if this one sounds better.
[6:11]I'm just kind of impressed with that I did on the other day.
[6:14]You did great.
[6:15]You did great.
[6:16]That's off.
[6:17]Thank you.
[6:18]The daydreams is about the stars of an early 2000s TV show who implode spectacularly on
[6:24]live TV at the height of their fame.
[6:26]And now it's 13 years later, they've all gone in very different directions.
[6:30]You know, one of them has left Hollywood entirely once a movie star, one is a cautionary
[6:35]tale, but they're forced to come back together again for a reunion special that could
[6:40]either offer them the redemption they so desperately need or destroy them all completely.
[6:46]I love it.
[6:48]As I started, I was like, so is this like 902 or no, and I was like, no, because they're
[6:51]singing.
[6:52]So is this like high school musical?
[6:53]Is that like, what are we basing the sun, you know, it was a little inspired by high
[6:58]school and musical.
[6:59]I mean, I really wanted this to be like the stars of the show and the show itself to
[7:04]feel like it could have existed in the early 2000s alongside all the stuff that already
[7:09]did exist in the early 2000s, but you know, that said, while doing research, I absolutely
[7:15]was taking inspiration for various shows and pop stars at the time.
[7:21]That sounds like a really tough job having a research, though, is I feel really sorry for
[7:24]you.
[7:25]You know, it must have been really just tough to watch to all that.
[7:29]It was brutal.
[7:30]It was brutal.
[7:31]It was like, listen to all that amazing pop music.
[7:34]I don't know.
[7:35]Yeah.
[7:36]And whenever anyone was like, are you sure you need to keep listening to this?
[7:39]Here's album to be like, yeah, I'm positive.
[7:42]Yeah.
[7:43]It's essential to my craft.
[7:44]Yeah.
[7:45]It is.
[7:46]It is funny because I'd be like, oh, I'm going to do a little bit of research.
[7:49]So let me Google Jessica Simpson or whoever.
[7:51]And then I would just go down this rabbit hole and a day later, I'd be like, I am the
[7:55]world's foremost expert on Jessica's.
[7:58]Oh my gosh.
[8:00]Well, one thing you did with the stars of the show, the show within the book is you had
[8:07]them use their real names right in the show so that they almost like they couldn't escape.
[8:12]And it was almost like before this massive reality explosion.
[8:17]So it was almost like a trick to make watchers feel that they actually were getting to know
[8:22]the people.
[8:23]And so they felt much more invested when the show got taken off the air sort of very
[8:27]suddenly after this kiss or attempted kiss and all that.
[8:30]Yeah, exactly.
[8:31]Yeah, the man who creates the show has this brainwave after all these teenagers are
[8:36]cast in it in 2003 and is like, oh, we're going to have, we're going to change all the
[8:41]character names to your real names.
[8:43]So the teams and the tweens watching can't really separate out is summer in real life different
[8:51]from summer on the TV show.
[8:53]And I think for the stars themselves, it's great in a way because you know, people get
[8:59]invested in them.
[9:00]But then it's also like they have to struggle with their own sense of self and they feel
[9:03]like they can't escape it and they're playing versions of themselves in a way that
[9:07]they also don't have any control over it because they're not writing the show.
[9:11]It's like this much older man making them do stuff, but they sort of it's kind of like
[9:16]a nightmare.
[9:17]Actually, when you think about it, like you're going to go on TV with your real name
[9:20]and people are going to assume everything you do is what you intend to do.
[9:23]It's almost like the, let's say the politician thing, you know, where they control the
[9:29]military and candidate, you know, like they're completely controlled.
[9:33]Yeah.
[9:34]Yeah.
[9:35]And I want to explore like so many young people, you know, back in the early 2000s, signed
[9:42]up for this because they were like, oh my god, fame, incredible.
[9:44]Why wouldn't you want fame?
[9:46]And then it's just so much more complicated and damaging than I think you expect when
[9:51]you're outside of it.
[9:52]Yeah.
[9:53]Wait.
[9:54]So, but what was the initial spark?
[9:55]Like was there one show you watched or one thing that you were like, yes, my next book
[9:59]is this?
[10:00]Well, I will say that, like, for the longest time, I just had this note on my computer
[10:05]reading Destiny's Child at the Super Bowl because do you remember when Beyonce performed
[10:10]at the Super Bowl and she brought, like, the members of Destiny's Child back to do
[10:14]with her?
[10:15]Yeah.
[10:16]And for the longest time, I was like, oh, that must have been so weird for Kelly and
[10:19]Michelle because this one member of their band had gone on to make her the Super Bowl.
[10:24]And, you know, they were doing their own thing that I just felt like the dynamics must
[10:28]have been so interesting.
[10:29]So that was always in the back of my mind.
[10:33]But then, yeah, the past few years, I think I just got really into early 2000s pop culture
[10:39]in a way that a lot of us did because it was a scary, destabilizing time and it felt familiar
[10:44]and comforting.
[10:46]But I was also noticing how so many of the big bright starlets at the time had really struggled
[10:52]in the years sentence.
[10:53]And this was around when Britney was gaining traction.
[10:58]And so I wanted to explore, like, why had these young women struggled in a way that perhaps
[11:02]their male counterparts had not?
[11:05]And if we were starting to acknowledge that perhaps we had treated them pretty terribly
[11:10]back in the day, like, what now?
[11:12]How do we move forward?
[11:14]How do they move forward?
[11:15]How do they forgive us?
[11:16]How do we forgive ourselves for a complicity in, like, gobbling up all the stories about
[11:21]their, quote unquote, breakdowns?
[11:23]Yeah.
[11:24]So that was the inspiration for the book.
[11:25]Also, you're a musician.
[11:27]So this is sort of like the road less traveled, you know, like what would have happened.
[11:31]And maybe it wouldn't have been so great if you had become Britney Spears.
[11:33]So maybe it all worked out just fine.
[11:35]I actually haven't been thinking about that a lot because, yeah, a huge beater nerd growing
[11:41]up and, you know, being a teenager in the early 2000s, I think we were like bombarded a lot
[11:47]with this idea that like, ooh, if you went down to the mall, there was going to be a casting
[11:52]call from like Nickelodeon and Disney.
[11:54]And maybe you could become the next Amanda Bines or, yeah, Britney Spears or whoever.
[11:59]And I always was like, I should go do that.
[12:02]But I was always too busy with homework and play practice and stuff like that.
[12:05]So I never did.
[12:06]But I did have one kind of loose potential brush with fame, which was when I was a freshman
[12:12]in college.
[12:13]I went to this open casting call for this like very big Broadway show that was looking
[12:18]for teenagers.
[12:19]Dear Evan Hansen.
[12:21]Well, it was a spring awakening.
[12:23]Okay.
[12:24]Okay.
[12:25]Yeah.
[12:26]Keep going.
[12:27]Sorry.
[12:28]And I got like a few callbacks for the leading role.
[12:30]Oh my gosh.
[12:31]Yeah.
[12:32]And I didn't end up, yeah, I like totally bombed my final call back.
[12:36]But I remember they like made me sign this thing that was like, the show was a little
[12:42]explicit.
[12:43]And I had decided to be the paper being like, I'm over 18 and I agreed to like show
[12:47]my best on stage every night and like similarly sex.
[12:51]Oh my gosh.
[12:53]And you know, at age 18, I was like, sign me up.
[12:56]I wouldn't be fair with it.
[13:00]But so I think sometimes about like the alternative life where I dropped out of college
[13:05]and was doing that and you know, who knows what I would have led to.
[13:09]But I'm pretty happy with my life right now.
[13:12]Wow.
[13:13]Yeah.
[13:14]Yeah.
[13:15]So crazy.
[13:16]You know, I feel like we could all right so many alternative narratives.
[13:19]Like what if I had taken this path?
[13:21]What if I had done this and I don't know, I just, I find that endlessly fascinating.
[13:25]I mean, my kids watch Sliding Doors the other day, which turns out was not totally
[13:28]appropriate, but it's fine.
[13:32]But I'm like, and also was so dated.
[13:34]I hadn't watched it in forever.
[13:37]It's so dated.
[13:38]And that's really over.
[13:39]Yeah.
[13:40]Yeah.
[13:41]It's worth like a rewatch just for that.
[13:43]Okay.
[13:44]You would recommend.
[13:45]I remember loving that movie, but also in the end being like, what?
[13:49]Yes, spoilers.
[13:50]Yes.
[13:51]Yeah, it did have that kind of ending, but just the notion that like every little thing
[13:55]you do changes the whole trajectory of your life.
[13:58]No train versus not catching that, getting the role, not getting the role of that.
[14:06]Yeah.
[14:07]And then your characters go on to have sort of alternative lives and we enter the books
[14:11]sort of on the riding on the shoulders of a lawyer who's like trying to have a normal
[14:16]life.
[14:17]And, you know, her phone is blowing up and she's like, what is going on?
[14:20]And I love how she can totally hide.
[14:24]And nobody even knows about this huge piece of her life except for like maybe some
[14:27]teen girls who were exactly the right age at the right time.
[14:31]Right.
[14:32]Nobody's expected her to like get out and become this professional sort of up tight
[14:38]lawyer lady.
[14:39]Yeah.
[14:40]So crazy.
[14:41]And is there anyone who has starred in a show who's become an up tight lawyer lady?
[14:45]I can't even, you know, like do does that like going to law school and yeah, I don't
[14:50]know.
[14:51]I don't know.
[14:52]There must be some, but there must be some where we'll have to dig a little more.
[14:56]Yeah.
[14:57]I feel like in terms of former teen and child stars, Marrow Wilson is super interesting
[15:02]to me.
[15:03]Do you remember her from Matilda and Mrs. Doubtfire?
[15:05]Oh, yeah.
[15:06]What happened to her?
[15:08]She's great.
[15:09]She ended up going to like grad school and she does some writing and is like an interesting
[15:16]very thoughtful and intelligent public figure at this point who I think has some really
[15:21]nuanced views on her child stardom.
[15:24]Interesting.
[15:25]Yeah.
[15:26]And my MBLC who when became a neurophysician, or whatever she is, I don't even know.
[15:30]She has like some crazy degree astrophysic, I don't even know what she is, but amazing.
[15:36]So she went back on the education train.
[15:39]I was actually Kelly Martin, do you remember her?
[15:42]She was in, I can't remember what she was in now, but anyway, she went to, she was in
[15:45]my college and we were in like an art history thing together and she'd like just been
[15:49]on TV.
[15:50]Oh wow.
[15:51]Yeah.
[15:52]She was a really big deal at the time.
[15:53]But this is of course, you're probably too young because this was in the late 90s.
[15:56]So anyway, mid to late 90s, I must admit so I'll like her.
[16:03]So from your writing, it seems like you were having fun writing this book.
[16:06]Like were you having fun writing this book?
[16:08]Oh, absolutely.
[16:10]Like it was such a pleasure to live in this world and just imagine that I was like a celebrity.
[16:19]And I developed, you know, so much love for all of these characters and really wanted
[16:24]them to succeed.
[16:26]And as you said earlier, the research part of it was like quite a bit of stuff all.
[16:31]But you know, at the same time, I do think like I wanted this book to be really fun
[16:36]and in a page turner and juicy and delicious.
[16:40]But I wanted it to tackle some deeper issues and like get it, you know, the trauma that
[16:44]some of these people are dealing with and the sexism and the racism.
[16:48]Like so many of the awful things that they had to go through at the time.
[16:51]And so even while doing the research, there would be moments where I'd, you know, be watching
[16:56]an interview, for example, Britney Spears had done where she was just getting like torn
[17:01]apart.
[17:02]And it would be hard to watch.
[17:04]Yeah.
[17:05]So while a lot of it was very fun, it wasn't all just like, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo.
[17:10]Interesting.
[17:11]Well, no, there's always like a bigger message to, to every story.
[17:14]So is this more cautionary tale like your unborn child here, would you, uh, like what
[17:21]would you say, go down this path, don't go down this path, you know, how do you feel about
[17:25]that?
[17:26]Yeah, it's tough because I, I got so much enjoyment and community from doing theater
[17:34]or growing up.
[17:35]And that's actually one thing that I wanted to show in the book is like, for all that
[17:39]the fame can be really awful and tough, like just these people being together and making
[17:46]something and like making a show together is so joyful.
[17:51]And like fills you with adrenaline on like anything else.
[17:54]So you know, I think if my daughter was like, I want to be famous, I tell her like, you
[17:59]know, take the classes, do the plays, but we're not going to let you go to any professional
[18:04]auditions until you're 18.
[18:06]Okay.
[18:07]No, signing away, topless performances.
[18:11]Exactly.
[18:12]Yeah, I think it's so fascinating looking at like the, the nepo baby discussions.
[18:18]Yes.
[18:19]All these famous parents talking about whether or not they're going to let their kid do stuff
[18:24]or not.
[18:25]Yeah.
[18:26]Yeah.
[18:27]Yeah.
[18:28]I do kind of feel for them in a way.
[18:29]I mean, that is what they know.
[18:31]That's what they've seen.
[18:32]Those are the role models like that's the industry they know.
[18:35]Those are the people.
[18:36]I don't know.
[18:37]Yeah.
[18:38]I mean, you know, I grew up among like finance people and I was like, no, thanks, like that
[18:43]is what I knew.
[18:44]Do you know, like that was, that would have been the easier path if I had any aptitude
[18:48]in that area.
[18:49]Because yeah, it was so familiar with all the terminology and the people and the companies
[18:54]and I like understood it all.
[18:56]So ultimately that was totally not for me, but I can see if I actually was enjoying it
[19:01]and it was like, you know, the entertainment industry or something that was like glamorous.
[19:06]Wow.
[19:07]Should I not do it?
[19:08]Because my parents did it.
[19:09]Do you know what I mean?
[19:10]Like, and now they're not allowed to do it.
[19:11]Like poor Jamie Lee Curtis had to be like, I'm like, you know, however old she is like,
[19:15]I'm a nepo baby.
[19:16]You know what I mean?
[19:17]Like she's standing on her on two feet at this point, you know, winning her own awards.
[19:20]So yeah, I think that's the thing.
[19:22]There are so many nepo babies who are older and we don't think of them as nepo babies
[19:27]because they've proven themselves, you know, like Jamie Curtis, Drew Barrymore, Laura
[19:32]Durr.
[19:33]Like I don't think you have this with me like, Laura Durr does not deserve to be an actress.
[19:38]Right.
[19:39]But yeah, sort of just like the ones now need to prove themselves and some of them will
[19:45]and some of them won't.
[19:46]Also, they might have a genetic aptitude for some of this.
[19:50]True?
[19:51]True?
[19:52]Yeah.
[19:53]Anyway, I don't know why I'm defending this is probably going to be just anyway, whatever.
[19:56]Yeah.
[19:57]I don't know.
[19:58]Just like musings, I don't really have a point of view on this.
[20:00]stuff. This is like, right? We're developing our stamp. Don't quote me on this, please.
[20:08]So what are you working on now? Are you working on a new book? Yeah. I'm actually in revisions
[20:14]on the next book, which is due in like a week and a half. And the daydream comes out in about a
[20:20]week and a half. Good timing. Thank you editors. Yeah. But it is a little bit more of a love story
[20:27]than I've written previously. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say about it, but it's
[20:33]loosely inspired by the time in real life when I had to walk down the aisle at a friend's wedding
[20:38]with a guy who had given my book one star in Goodreads. That is so awesome. I am obsessed with that.
[20:48]I am obsessed. Yeah. Well, hopefully, 2024, you'll get to read it. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
[20:55]I'm obsessed. That's hilarious. I actually have a novel coming out in 2024 also.
[20:59]Thank you. It comes out in March. It's called blank about a woman who's a writer and a mom in LA,
[21:06]and like it takes place over five days where she cannot get this next book written in time,
[21:11]and they're about to take back her advance. And so she decides to, she has this unconventional
[21:16]solution to the problem. And we know she had almost finished writing a book, and then
[21:20]was in the kitchen getting a cup of coffee. And like the biggest deal author in the country was on
[21:24]the equivalent of GMA being like, I have the same exact book in the same title coming out.
[21:28]And she's like, you've got to be kidding me. And she had to throw it the whole thing away.
[21:31]So that's where it starts. And then it really is about friendship and motherhood and love and
[21:37]you know, all of those good things. So that sounds so good. Thank you. I don't know. Sorry for
[21:44]even pitching it. I don't think I've ever talked about this publicly. Certainly not on my own
[21:47]podcast before, but I'm string gearing up to promote. So I'm honored that I get to be the
[21:55]first one on air of the fish. Yeah. So I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm not going to deal with that. But
[22:03]scary. Like you don't really have anything going on in your life. You know, yeah, I'm literally
[22:12]going to have to like change something because I'm up. I mean, all of us are like working so hard
[22:17]to like do all the things we're doing. I mean, it's a lot. And also all your other books, you know,
[22:21]and keeping those up and you know, it's like juggling. And then you throw one more ball of there to
[22:25]do to do, you know, without having to stop. Yeah, I've never been good at real life juggling. Yeah.
[22:33]But yeah, learning how to do it. But I actually used to, I took a juggling class at my school. They
[22:41]had these like electives. I went to an all girl school until ninth grade. And we would have
[22:46]these activities with the boys school. And we had to like pick these fun things like juggling or
[22:53]calligraphy was one of them. Or like, I don't know, all these random things in the boys that
[22:57]like come to our school. I haven't thought about this in so long. Anyway, I picked juggling. And I got
[23:02]really good at it. And we were doing all these tricks where like we would juggle and like throw
[23:09]to the other person and like we would have all these things going on. This is like in fifth grade.
[23:14]So it's been a while. Now I don't think I have these skills anymore. But anyway, I'm just
[23:19]considering you juggling like seven balls at a time while also discovering your feelings towards
[23:24]the opposite sex. Totally. I was so mortified. I was like always blushing and like, oh my god, you know,
[23:30]I probably remember that whole thing wrong. But in my head, that is what happened.
[23:34]We were in like the ballet room. And anyway, like riding a bike and you could pick it up like
[23:39]maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Who knows what comes out of these conversations.
[23:47]Okay. Any advice for aspiring authors? Yeah. I mean, I would say one thing that has really helped
[23:52]me is finding a writing community. You know, I have a online writers group. We meet on zoom every
[23:59]few weeks and trade pages and give feedback. And they're all so wonderful and thoughtful. And it
[24:05]just really helps me stay motivated. I could not have written the daydreams without them, for example.
[24:12]So if you can find your people that way, I know that there are like Facebook groups for
[24:16]finding people, Hannah Orinstein runs one of those writers. Yeah. I recommend finding your group
[24:24]for a friend or as if you can. And also just accepting that a first draft did anything is going to
[24:30]be horrible. And that's okay because that's what revisions are for. How much better do you get it
[24:38]before you even hand it into your editor? For me at this point, I think I'll, you know,
[24:44]churn out the totally garbage first draft. And then I'll clean it up. I'll do like one revision
[24:50]of it before sending it to my editor. But you know, I'm looking at like works with the same editor
[24:54]now on three books. So I think we have like a trusting relationship, but she's willing to see
[25:00]stuff a little earlier on. But like with the daydreams, for example, I knew that I loved the idea
[25:07]from the very beginning. And I thought I'd had potential to be the best thing I'd written.
[25:11]But when I finished the first draft of it, it was like, Oh, God, this is so far from what
[25:19]in between the first and second drafts, I had to rewrite a full order, if not third of it.
[25:24]So, well, that is good advice and inspiring. And you also have like the coolest cover ever.
[25:33]I have to say, don't you love it?
[25:36]So great. It was on my desk and my husband was like, Oh, my God, that looks amazing.
[25:45]Yeah, it's an amazing cover. And a great book. So there you go, perfect match.
[25:50]Yeah. I think you can judge this book by its cover.
[25:55]Yes, but really like captures captures the vibe of it.
[25:59]I think we better just throw out that expression.
[26:03]In today's marketing world of books. But anyway, well, thanks, Laura. It's always so much fun
[26:07]to talk to you. And congratulations on your pregnancy. I hope everything goes well. And you know,
[26:13]I can't wait for the next book that sounds so up my alley. I cannot wait.
[26:18]Thank you, Zippy. It's been such a pleasure getting to talk to you again. You too.
[26:23]Okay. All right. Bye, Laura.
[26:27]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[26:31]follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[26:36]Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[26:41]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for
[26:45]the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro
[26:50]and outro music.